Playoff Observations

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Post by cowens/oldschool Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:28 am

Shout out to Giannis and the Bucks, they brought back dominant inside play!! Had to look at highlights on ESPN, what you see over and over is Bucks bigs/Giannis blocking shots, dunking, running the floor, getting big offensive boards over and over!!! Giannis has no 3 point game, but he just lays it all out there, he just outworks you over and over. In a class above everyone in this era in effort, never has a bad game, always puts up his numbers.

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Post by BingBang! Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:45 am

Giannis in many ways is the antithesis of the prep-school/AAU/1 year of college/top 3 pick and off to the NBA star player. He's a joy to watch because he enjoys the game. He competes all out and is not looking to maximize his income and brand by taking rest days, etc. but wants to win that play in that instant. And then the next play...and so on. Very refreshing watching him lead a team.
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Post by dboss Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:07 am

Congratulations to the Milwaukee Bucks!

This team went through quite a bit to get the big win.  After being down 0-2 they came back and won games 3,4,5 and 6.

That is very impressive.

In some respects this team is an improbable champion when you consider how the roster game to be.

In 2012 the Pistons drafted Khris Middleton and a year later traded him to the Bucks.  Khris averaged 6.1 ppg as a rookie and shot around 32% from deep.  His 3 years at Texas A & M did not reveal the sniper he would become.

khris was the 39th pick in the 2012 draft.  The old cliche about the draft being a crap shoot was never more disqualified than the 2012 2nd round.  At 32.  Tomas Satoransky, 34. Jae Crowder, 35. Draymond Green, 39. Khris Middleton, 40. Will Barton, 43. Mike Scott

In the 1st round of that same draft the Celtics drafted Sullinger and Fab Melo.  

And then in 2013, the Bucks drafted Giannis and the Celtics jumped over him to draft Kelly Oylnyk.

The Bucks did not become a great team overnight.  They kept the right players and added to the roster as needed.  

One of the best things said post game was the comment by Giannis about not wanting to join some other team to win a title.

He had one of the very best games ever in a closeout situation.  And coach bud will not be fired.

The only thing that bothered me last night was the thousands of fans clustered together outside.  The new Gamma variant was probably conceived last night.
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Post by bobheckler Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:14 am

A great series. Congrats to both teams' fans.

Well, no more BBall until 8/8, 18 days from now. Unless Brad does something we really have no vested interest in the draft in 8 days.


Bob


.
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Post by dboss Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:51 am

bobheckler wrote:A great series.  Congrats to both teams' fans.

Well, no more BBall until 8/8, 18 days from now.  Unless Brad does something we really have no vested interest in the draft in 8 days.


Bob


.

Maybe they should trade the pick. Your comments yesterday pointed to the problem of having too many young and inexperienced players on the roster. It is a bit ironic because I think this year's drafted is deep enough to include quality in the second round.

I like Joe Wieskamp.
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Post by bobheckler Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:48 pm

dboss wrote:
bobheckler wrote:A great series.  Congrats to both teams' fans.

Well, no more BBall until 8/8, 18 days from now.  Unless Brad does something we really have no vested interest in the draft in 8 days.


Bob


.

Maybe they should trade the pick.  Your comments yesterday pointed to the problem of having too many young and inexperienced players on the roster.  It is a bit ironic because I think this year's drafted is deep enough to include quality in the second round.  

I like Joe Wieskamp.


dboss,

Milwaukee

Starters
Giannis - 26, and arguably the best player in the NBA.
Middleton - will be 30 next month
Lopez - 33
Tucker - 36
Holiday - 31

Bench
Portis - 26
Connaughton - 28
Teague - 33


Phoenix

Starters
Paul - 36
Booker - 24
Ayton - 22
Crowder - 31
Bridges - 24 (25 next month)

Bench
Kaminsky - 28
Johnson - 25 (only 2nd year in NBA)
Payne - 26 (27 next month)


The older team, overall, won.  Booker is the youngest player on either team at 24, but he just completed his 6th NBA season.  Far from a young'un despite his chronological age, and a 2X All-Star.  The Suns' other youngster, Mikal Bridges, is in his 3rd season.

We played two rookies (PP and AN).  We had 2nd year player Grant Williams (set aside your opinion of him as a player, he's still only a sophomore and therefore a young'un).  Our starting center, when he was healthy and played, is 23 years old.  We know that we had to go WAY deep into our bench due to injuries but when we went into our bench who were we forced to call upon?  A kindergarten.  I'm not down on these players, I like PP, AN and RW in particular a lot, but you're not going deep into the playoffs with a team that should be on a school outing.  

The question for Brad now is "do we keep these young'uns until they develop or do we trade them for a grizzled veteran that will get us where we want to go sooner?"  NOT an easy question, and one that requires patience and/or acceptance on the part of us fans.  I remember, clearly, when Danny traded Al Jefferson and Gerald Green etal to Minny for KG people we screaming about how we "traded away our future!".  Our future, in particular our very near future, was to win a Championship.  Will, and should, Brad roll those dice again?


Bob


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Post by bobheckler Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:04 pm

Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 12 hours ago
The only other player to score 50 points in a close-out Finals game is Bob Pettit … 63 years ago.



Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 3 hours ago
going to be really interesting to see how teams try to adopt the Bucks model and start building around the best player in the league. radical concept but I think it’s proven now
MY NOTE:  This is hardly new and can only assume Jared Weiss was saying this tongue-in-cheek.  Pop did it in San Antonio with Duncan. Riley in Miami, David Griffin in Cleveland and Rob Pelinka in LA did it with LeBron.  This is why, of all the players on the Celtics, the only true untouchable is Tatum.  I'm not saying that means we should trade Jaylen or Smart or fill_in_the_blank, I'm saying Tatum's trajectory will make him an MVP candidate and, in just a few short years, a ring-chasing player magnet.  He only turned only 23 in March.  Imagine when he's 26 and just beginning to come into his physical prime.


Bob


.
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Post by Ktron Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:32 pm

dbrown4 wrote:Great game to finish the season.  Congratulations to the Bucks!  

I was the complete opposite on the Deer District.  I really wanted to see all those fans go home with the flaming bag o' poo one more time and have PHX come from behind in a dramatic G7.  But the Bucks earned it the old fashioned way.  

As for CP3, you can blame TNT and Inside the NBA for sensationalizing the Rings vs. No Rings.  I know they all love Charles as we do, but I think I have a way they could put it all to rest for Charles.  And privately, they may have already done this but publicly it would be monumental very touching.  

Have Shaq and Kenny (and anyone else with a title) give Charles one of their rings, the O'Brien Trophy that goes with that season and everything that goes with those two items as a living inheritance.  I know it would be symbolic, but I can promise you if they did it unannounced on TNT during one of their shows, Charles would cry uncontrollably like a baby.  It wouldn't forgive all the pain and good-natured ribbing they have given Charles over the years but it would be an amazing, sincere gesture to help take the pressure off from what each of you indicated above about the haves and the have nots and realizing it is still only just a game.

Now for Kenny, it might hurt a little more since he only has two total and perhaps we'd even recreate what was seen in the New Testament with the old woman putting her only coin/all she owned in the offering.  Perhaps those with only one ring would give theirs up to Charles.  Now THAT would be amazing!!  

Whatever.  Probably ain't ever gonna happen.  Just thinking out loud.

db  
Sounds nice and fuzzy warm but Chuck didn’t get one because Chuck didn’t win. Guess it really sucks to be him. LOL

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Post by Ktron Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:48 pm

bobheckler wrote:Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 12 hours ago
The only other player to score 50 points in a close-out Finals game is Bob Pettit … 63 years ago.



Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 3 hours ago
going to be really interesting to see how teams try to adopt the Bucks model and start building around the best player in the league. radical concept but I think it’s proven now
MY NOTE:  This is hardly new and can only assume Jared Weiss was saying this tongue-in-cheek.  Pop did it in San Antonio with Duncan. Riley in Miami, David Griffin in Cleveland and Rob Pelinka in LA did it with LeBron.  This is why, of all the players on the Celtics, the only true untouchable is Tatum.  I'm not saying that means we should trade Jaylen or Smart or fill_in_the_blank, I'm saying Tatum's trajectory will make him an MVP candidate and, in just a few short years, a ring-chasing player magnet.  He only turned only 23 in March.  Imagine when he's 26 and just beginning to come into his physical prime.


Bob


.
I don’t think Griffin and Pelinka fit into the “building around one star” categorie. Pelinka had Lebrun and than Bronny connived his way into getting Davis. This all happened in less than 2 years. Hardly a “build”. Griffin was there as GM only 3 years and won 1 title. He built nothing. Check out Griffin’s moves during the time he was there. Too many to mention here but most were duds just like him and he is proving it all over again in N.O.

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Post by dboss Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:53 pm

Bob

If you recall I lamented about the fact that we had too many young guys to develop simultaneously.  Now that I have had a chance to look at all of them I think several deserve and have earned a place on the roster.  Our two 2020 rookies were pretty good.  Our 2019 draft glass was anchored by RL but the book is still out on him.  He did show enough this past season to fall into the hold category.  

I think Brad could do both.  Trade a few now along with a guy like TT  and keep a few that can develop into everyday players and/or starters or command enough interest to be part of a bigger trade to add a 3rd star.

Some guys do not appear to have any meaningful upside and would be trade filler banter. I am putting Grant Williams, Carsen Edwards in the live without category.

Brad should go about the business of filling out the roster with positional needs.  I would hate to see Boston sell low and buy high on some of our youngsters but not all of them.  But if the team decides to add  couple of veterans a couple of the young guys should go.

For the time being I would keep RW.  I think that he is still our best starting center option even though AH has returned.  I would also keep Moses Brown because he has legit center size and with AH being a 2 year keeper at best the Celtics have depth with 2 viable young centers on the team.

Nesmith looks like the better guard/wing so I would keep him and PP is the best PG among all the others.  Yam is not on the team yet and remains a prospect.  Waters is gone and CE cannot play PG. Tacko is truly uncoordinated and I do not think you can teach fluidity.  I would keep him on a 2-way cheap contract for his 3rd and final year to be one.  There is really no downside unless some undrafted FA is worth his spot.

I think the biggest unknown is Romeo Langford followed by Yam Madar.

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Post by Shamrock1000 Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:57 pm

BingBang! wrote:Giannis in many ways is the antithesis of the prep-school/AAU/1 year of college/top 3 pick and off to the NBA star player. He's a joy to watch because he enjoys the game. He competes all out and is not looking to maximize his income and brand by taking rest days, etc. but wants to win that play in that instant. And then the next play...and so on. Very refreshing watching him lead a team.

+1

Giannis is exactly what the league needed. Below is his post-game interview. It is long, but worth a listen. I especially appreciate how he 1) talks about how staying with a team/city through all the ups and downs leads to a more meaningful/satisfying championship than winning via forming a super team with your buddies; and 2) how he could not have gotten where he is without support from family and colleagues. It all comes off as completely sincere as well, not just a slick athlete pandering to the press. Oh, and there are no mentions of the geometry of the earth or the hypocrisy of Thanksgiving... If Giannis is now the face of the NBA, the league is in good hands.


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Post by Ktron Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:29 pm

dboss wrote:Bob

If you recall I lamented about the fact that we had too many young guys to develop simultaneously.  Now that I have had a chance to look at all of them I think several deserve and have earned a place on the roster.  Our two 2020 rookies were pretty good.  Our 2019 draft glass was anchored by RL but the book is still out on him.  He did show enough this past season to fall into the hold category.  

I think Brad could do both.  Trade a few now along with a guy like TT  and keep a few that can develop into everyday players and/or starters or command enough interest to be part of a bigger trade to add a 3rd star.

Some guys do not appear to have any meaningful upside and would be trade filler banter. I am putting Grant Williams, Carsen Edwards in the live without category.

Brad should go about the business of filling out the roster with positional needs.  I would hate to see Boston sell low and buy high on some of our youngsters but not all of them.  But if the team decides to add  couple of veterans a couple of the young guys should go.

For the time being I would keep RW.  I think that he is still our best starting center option even though AH has returned.  I would also keep Moses Brown because he has legit center size and with AH being a 2 year keeper at best the Celtics have depth with 2 viable young centers on the team.

Nesmith looks like the better guard/wing so I would keep him and PP is the best PG among all the others.  Yam is not on the team yet and remains a prospect.  Waters is gone and CE cannot play PG. Tacko is truly uncoordinated and I do not think you can teach fluidity.    I would keep him on a 2-way cheap contract for his 3rd and final year to be one.  There is really no downside unless some undrafted FA is worth his spot.

I think the biggest unknown is Romeo Langford followed by Yam Madar.

. Why should we keep a 7-6 “uncoordinated” center around? I disagree that he is that but if he is, why would you keep him?

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Post by dboss Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:22 pm

Ktron wrote:
dboss wrote:Bob

If you recall I lamented about the fact that we had too many young guys to develop simultaneously.  Now that I have had a chance to look at all of them I think several deserve and have earned a place on the roster.  Our two 2020 rookies were pretty good.  Our 2019 draft glass was anchored by RL but the book is still out on him.  He did show enough this past season to fall into the hold category.  

I think Brad could do both.  Trade a few now along with a guy like TT  and keep a few that can develop into everyday players and/or starters or command enough interest to be part of a bigger trade to add a 3rd star.

Some guys do not appear to have any meaningful upside and would be trade filler banter. I am putting Grant Williams, Carsen Edwards in the live without category.

Brad should go about the business of filling out the roster with positional needs.  I would hate to see Boston sell low and buy high on some of our youngsters but not all of them.  But if the team decides to add  couple of veterans a couple of the young guys should go.

For the time being I would keep RW.  I think that he is still our best starting center option even though AH has returned.  I would also keep Moses Brown because he has legit center size and with AH being a 2 year keeper at best the Celtics have depth with 2 viable young centers on the team.

Nesmith looks like the better guard/wing so I would keep him and PP is the best PG among all the others.  Yam is not on the team yet and remains a prospect.  Waters is gone and CE cannot play PG. Tacko is truly uncoordinated and I do not think you can teach fluidity.    I would keep him on a 2-way cheap contract for his 3rd and final year to be one.  There is really no downside unless some undrafted FA is worth his spot.

I think the biggest unknown is Romeo Langford followed by Yam Madar.

. Why should we keep a 7-6 “uncoordinated” center around? I disagree that he is that but if he is, why would you keep him?

He is on a cheap 2 way contract and his carnival like presence can enhance attendance for our G-League team. Fans love him. I would prefer him over Grant because despite his limitations he is probably more productive.
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Post by Ktron Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:23 pm

dboss wrote:
Ktron wrote:
dboss wrote:Bob

If you recall I lamented about the fact that we had too many young guys to develop simultaneously.  Now that I have had a chance to look at all of them I think several deserve and have earned a place on the roster.  Our two 2020 rookies were pretty good.  Our 2019 draft glass was anchored by RL but the book is still out on him.  He did show enough this past season to fall into the hold category.  

I think Brad could do both.  Trade a few now along with a guy like TT  and keep a few that can develop into everyday players and/or starters or command enough interest to be part of a bigger trade to add a 3rd star.

Some guys do not appear to have any meaningful upside and would be trade filler banter. I am putting Grant Williams, Carsen Edwards in the live without category.

Brad should go about the business of filling out the roster with positional needs.  I would hate to see Boston sell low and buy high on some of our youngsters but not all of them.  But if the team decides to add  couple of veterans a couple of the young guys should go.

For the time being I would keep RW.  I think that he is still our best starting center option even though AH has returned.  I would also keep Moses Brown because he has legit center size and with AH being a 2 year keeper at best the Celtics have depth with 2 viable young centers on the team.

Nesmith looks like the better guard/wing so I would keep him and PP is the best PG among all the others.  Yam is not on the team yet and remains a prospect.  Waters is gone and CE cannot play PG. Tacko is truly uncoordinated and I do not think you can teach fluidity.    I would keep him on a 2-way cheap contract for his 3rd and final year to be one.  There is really no downside unless some undrafted FA is worth his spot.

I think the biggest unknown is Romeo Langford followed by Yam Madar.

. Why should we keep a 7-6 “uncoordinated” center around? I disagree that he is that but if he is, why would you keep him?

He is on a cheap 2 way contract and his carnival like presence can enhance attendance for our G-League team.  Fans love him.  I would prefer him over Grant because despite his limitations he is probably more productive.  

Welcome to the Universoul Circus sponsored by Robell’s

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Post by bobheckler Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:39 pm

Ktron wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 12 hours ago
The only other player to score 50 points in a close-out Finals game is Bob Pettit … 63 years ago.



Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 3 hours ago
going to be really interesting to see how teams try to adopt the Bucks model and start building around the best player in the league. radical concept but I think it’s proven now
MY NOTE:  This is hardly new and can only assume Jared Weiss was saying this tongue-in-cheek.  Pop did it in San Antonio with Duncan. Riley in Miami, David Griffin in Cleveland and Rob Pelinka in LA did it with LeBron.  This is why, of all the players on the Celtics, the only true untouchable is Tatum.  I'm not saying that means we should trade Jaylen or Smart or fill_in_the_blank, I'm saying Tatum's trajectory will make him an MVP candidate and, in just a few short years, a ring-chasing player magnet.  He only turned only 23 in March.  Imagine when he's 26 and just beginning to come into his physical prime.


Bob


.
I don’t think Griffin and Pelinka fit into the “building around one star” categorie. Pelinka had Lebrun and than Bronny connived his way into getting Davis. This all happened in less than 2 years. Hardly a “build”. Griffin was there as GM only 3 years and won 1 title. He built nothing. Check out Griffin’s moves during the time he was there. Too many to mention here but most were duds just like him and he is proving it all over again in N.O.


Karon,

Magic got LeBron. Pelinka got AD. Think he would have been able to do that if LeBron hadn't been there?

Griffin got LeBron (back) and then got Love. The supporting cast went there to win a ring with LeBron.

And where does it say a build needs to be over 3 years to be considered a build?


Bob


.
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Post by Vankisa Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:02 pm

Shamrock1000 wrote:
BingBang! wrote:Giannis in many ways is the antithesis of the prep-school/AAU/1 year of college/top 3 pick and off to the NBA star player. He's a joy to watch because he enjoys the game. He competes all out and is not looking to maximize his income and brand by taking rest days, etc. but wants to win that play in that instant. And then the next play...and so on. Very refreshing watching him lead a team.

+1

Giannis is exactly what the league needed. Below is his post-game interview. It is long, but worth a listen. I especially appreciate how he 1) talks about how staying with a team/city through all the ups and downs leads to a more meaningful/satisfying championship than winning via forming a super team with your buddies; and 2) how he could not have gotten where he is without support from family and colleagues. It all comes off as completely sincere as well, not just a slick athlete pandering to the press. Oh, and there are no mentions of the geometry of the earth or the hypocrisy of Thanksgiving... If Giannis is now the face of the NBA, the league is in good hands.


+2

Don't have the time to write a lot these days so let me jump in quickly here and say Shamrock and BingBang have expressed my feelings on the topic already.

Just a couple of things to add:
17-19 from the line in the close out game. From the guy that we all (and the rest of the Basketball world) at one point or another doubted had the focus, skill and most importantly mentality to win it all.
He showed in past seasons he was not ready. He did not have it...yet. You cannot ask for a more complete game from your star player than what Giannis had in game 6. He did not "have it" when he came into the league. Nor did he "have it" last year or the year before.
This tells me one very important thing - if there is a will, there is a way. Take a good look at Giannis Antetokounmpo Celtic stars - this is how you better yourself every year until you get over the hump and get to the top!

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Post by dboss Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:20 pm

Agree 100% and the team needs to keep at it.  It took the Bucks a long time.  They changed out a lot of complimentary parts along the way until they found the winning mix of players
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Post by RosalieTCeltics Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:21 pm

During post game he could not thank Middleton enough, heaping praise on his teammate who is obviously a quiet leader. This was a good win for all. They built this team to win, and they did it. Many, many additions. Portis, Tucker, Holiday, (Teague!! Who ends up with a ring after being picked up after Boston let him go). It was a great win
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Post by RosalieTCeltics Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:21 pm

Hopefully this sends Teague into retirement
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Post by NYCelt Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:16 am

My first thought when Milwaukee won was that I hope we don't need to go 50 years between titles.

It's a tribute to the Milwaukee fans that they've helped keep the franchise viable over that span.
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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:33 am

NYCelt wrote:My first thought when Milwaukee won was that I hope we don't need to go 50 years between titles.

It's a tribute to the Milwaukee fans that they've helped keep the franchise viable over that span.


We won’t

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Post by RosalieTCeltics Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:57 am

I hope not. I envy Milwaukee, they did it the right way, their star stuck with them, never gave an ultimatum and allowed the front office to build a solid foundation around him. They knew what they wanted and went out and got it, no matter what the cost. This is a team that you really can "like" after all is said and done. I love watching Giannis play, I paid $600 two years ago to go to a game with my husband and son, just so I could see him. That money is nothing now, but it was worth it. He is a feel good story
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Post by Ktron Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:57 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Ktron wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 12 hours ago
The only other player to score 50 points in a close-out Finals game is Bob Pettit … 63 years ago.



Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 3 hours ago
going to be really interesting to see how teams try to adopt the Bucks model and start building around the best player in the league. radical concept but I think it’s proven now
MY NOTE:  This is hardly new and can only assume Jared Weiss was saying this tongue-in-cheek.  Pop did it in San Antonio with Duncan. Riley in Miami, David Griffin in Cleveland and Rob Pelinka in LA did it with LeBron.  This is why, of all the players on the Celtics, the only true untouchable is Tatum.  I'm not saying that means we should trade Jaylen or Smart or fill_in_the_blank, I'm saying Tatum's trajectory will make him an MVP candidate and, in just a few short years, a ring-chasing player magnet.  He only turned only 23 in March.  Imagine when he's 26 and just beginning to come into his physical prime.


Bob


.
I don’t think Griffin and Pelinka fit into the “building around one star” categorie. Pelinka had Lebrun and than Bronny connived his way into getting Davis. This all happened in less than 2 years. Hardly a “build”. Griffin was there as GM only 3 years and won 1 title. He built nothing. Check out Griffin’s moves during the time he was there. Too many to mention here but most were duds just like him and he is proving it all over again in N.O.


Karon,

Magic got LeBron.   Pelinka got AD.  Think he would have been able to do that if LeBron hadn't been there?

Griffin got LeBron  (back) and then got Love.  The supporting cast went there to win a ring with LeBron.

And where does it say a build needs to be over 3 years to be considered a build?


Bob




Bob,
(1) First off, you contradicted yourself. You stated it was Pelinka did it but then come back and say Magic got Lebron and Rob got AD. Even if that were true, that doesn’t qualify as being a “build” job by Pelinka alone. Fact-Lebron was going there with or without Magic’s help. Lebron and his agent got AD not Pelinka. Yes and No. Because Pelinka hasn’t been able to get anyone of substance since.

(2) Griffin didn’t get anyone back and did you look at the other horrible decisions Griffin made while there? So many there’s no room on this page. Check for yourself. Lebron went back because thats what he wanted to do. You actually think Griffin had an ounce of influence in Bronny’s decision to go home? Lebron engineered the Love deal. Yeah Griffin may have been there and got credit because he was GM but it was well documented that Lebron wanted Love and not rookies like Wiggins. And like that song about Lola…you know the rest.

(3) It doesn’t but those 2 examples don’t qualify even it took 10.

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Playoff Observations - Page 23 Empty Re: Playoff Observations

Post by bobheckler Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:31 am

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/7/22/22586874/giannis-antetokounmpo-nba-finals-mvp-words-should-resonate-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-boston-celtics



Antetokounmpo’s words should resonate with Tatum and Brown
101



After earning Finals, MVP, Giannis spoke about what it meant to work through struggles to win a title. With any luck, Boston’s dynamic duo was listening.

By daniellubofsky@D_Lubofsky Jul 22, 2021, 8:00am EDT



Giannis Antetokounmpo had a lot to say after his masterful 50-point performance earned the Milwaukee Bucks their first championship in 50 years.

He spoke about his journey from a skinny 12-year-old boy living in Greece just trying to help his family to an NBA champion and Finals MVP. He reflected on the challenge Kobe Bryant issued to him after winning his first MVP back in 2019, which was to go out and earn an NBA title.

But perhaps the most notable soundbite of the press conference came after Giannis was asked to put into words the events that have followed the extension he signed last offseason.

“I couldn’t leave. There was a job that had to be finished,” he said. “Coming back, I was like, ‘this is my city.’ They trust me. They believe in me. Obviously, I wanted to get the job done. It’s easy to go somewhere and go win a championship with somebody else. It’s easy. I can go to a superteam and just do my part and win a championship. But this is the hard way to do it, and this is the way I chose to do it.”

Antetokounmpo may have been a bit naive in simplifying a championship-winning formula that’s difficult to crack no matter the team. Still, his underlying message is laced with a truth the Boston Celtics can only hope was digested by their two leading men.

Every Larry O’Brien trophy is the same size, but the journey to the top certainly affects how satisfying the view is.

The difference between staying put or bolting for a superteam isn’t about how easy or hard winning a title is. Winning a championship is extremely difficult in every situation. But certain circumstances can absolutely dictate how gratifying that moment could be.

It’s not controversial to suggest that one who stays with their team, fights through the low points, and emerges victoriously would feel a greater sense of accomplishment than the one who signed elsewhere and got it done there sooner.

Adversity accumulated through history is what makes the reward taste sweeter. Without it, the gratification can only reach so high.

Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown have been spoiled during their time in Boston. Neither has missed the playoffs in their nine combined seasons. They have five conference finals appearances between them.

They’ve grown accustomed to competing at the highest level. If that hasn’t already changed, it’s about to.

Boston finished this past season seventh in the East with a .500 record. Some of that disappointment can be attributed to injuries and COVID. An argument can also be made that the Celtics are simply no longer the cream of the conference crop after free agent after free agent left Brown and Tatum to take the mantle. Their status as perennial playoff participants shouldn’t be in doubt, but their roster still has questions, and other contemporaries have leapfrogged them in the hierarchy.

Who knows if even a return to the conference finals is in the cards for the Celtics anytime soon, much less a Finals berth. Tough times lie ahead for a franchise that holds itself to the highest standard of competition.

Theorizing the future moves of Tatum and Brown does feel a bit silly at this point. The former has a five-year extension that begins next season. The latter is one year into a four-year extension of his own.

Boston still has time to build a legitimate contender, but at a time when players are constantly finding new ways to exert control over their own destiny, it’s never as much as you think. Especially considering the player option Tatum has for the 2025-26 season.

The words of the newly-crowned Finals MVP don’t necessarily have to be etched in stone for Tatum and Brown. The Celtics have to meet them halfway by assembling a team that does their talents justice. Should the organization fail to do so, loyalty can only be worth so much when planning the next chapter of their respective careers.

Right now, though, Boston still has a better situation than most teams in the league. They just need some smoothing around the edges or perhaps a blockbuster trade to shoot them back up the standings.

Maybe that move gets made sometime this offseason. Or maybe the Celtics will need a few swings at the plate to get things right over the next few years. There may come an inflection point when Tatum and Brown have to question the state of the franchise with their respective futures on the line.

If that time never comes, all the better for Boston and its franchise pillars. If it does, Antetokounmpo may have just shown what that challenge can offer if overcame, something no amount of championships elsewhere ever could.


Bob


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Post by bobheckler Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:07 am

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2021/07/24/boston-celtics-takeaways-playoffs/amp/1/



3 key takeaways from this year’s postseason


by Seth Quinn1 d ago



After finishing a disappointing seventh in the Eastern Conference this past season, the Boston Celtics are now entering the process of retooling the roster.

While for most teams playoff experience is significant no matter how long their run lasts, that isn’t really the case for the current roster as the core players in Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, and Marcus Smart were all in tow for each of the C’s three Eastern Conference Finals appearances in the four years prior to this season.


At this point, fans are starting to get impatient, and at least one championship with Jayson Tatum leading the team is becoming the expectation rather than just a dream scenario, considering both Tatum’s individual success and the team’s success since he was drafted.

However, in order to build a true title contender in the coming years, new President of Basketball Operations, Brad Stevens, needs to not only learn from the team’s recent mistakes, but also take away certain lessons from current teams competing for a championship, like the Bucks and the Suns who just faced off in the Finals.

Starting off with…


Boston Celtics key takeaway No. 1) Depth

This first takeaway relates to something that most Boston Celtics fans already knew too well entering the playoffs — the roster severely lacked depth this season.


Not only was the need for depth hammered home throughout the C’s underwhelming, injury-riddled season, but it was further proven by other teams in these playoffs as well.

A big headline of this year’s playoffs was injuries to star players, so the teams that made it far either had a ton of depth to make up for their injuries or had less significant injuries than other teams.


Taking a look at Phoenix, other than Chris Paul with some injury scares early on and Dario Saric’s serious injury towards the end of their playoff run, they were relatively lucky when it came to health.

Along with that increased luck compared to other teams, due to their great depth the Suns were able to beat a great team like the Lakers in the first round despite Chris Paul playing hurt for a lot of the series, as the roster consisted of a plethora of young and talented role players who were able to step up and help support their star players.


While depth was a key factor in a Finals run for the Suns, lack of depth was the downfall for their first opponent in the Western Conference favorites, Los Angeles Lakers.

With LeBron James playing through injury and Anthony Davis going down towards the end of the series against the Suns, the Lakers had to rely more on guys like Andre Drummond, Dennis Schroder, and Kyle Kuzma to help support those two as well as help replace some of their production (when Davis went out with injury).


Those three key players did not play up to expectations, leading to a first round exit for a very talented team too reliant on two star players (sound familiar?).

The same can be said for the Eastern Conference favorites, the Brooklyn Nets, even though they were able to push the eventual champion Milwaukee Bucks to seven games, and if not for Durant’s massive feet, they would have won the series and maybe went on to win the title instead.


While the Nets did have decent depth beyond their stars with solid role players like Blake Griffin, Joe Harris, and Jeff Green, they were still very reliant on three players, making their run to a championship much more difficult after two of those players, Kyrie Irving and James Harden, essentially alternated being injured.

Looking at the title winning roster of the Bucks, they didn’t have incredible depth, but they had just enough to overcome an injury to one of their starters, Donte DiVincenzo.


Deadline acquisition, P.J. Tucker, seamlessly replaced DiVincenzo in the starting lineup, and Bobby Portis, Pat Connaughton, and Bryn Forbes were able to provide solid production off the bench.

The main thing the Boston Celtics can takeaway from all of this is that even if you don’t necessarily have the most star power among other NBA teams, if you have more depth than others you are putting yourself in position to have a chance at winning a title.


The Suns are a fantastic example of that from this season as previously mentioned, and the Toronto Raptors are another great recent example of that back in 2019.

The Raptors, like the Suns, were able to take advantage of injury riddled teams who had less depth than them to not only make the Finals, but beat the heavily favored but injury plagued Golden State Warriors for the championship.


A rotation of at least eight or nine trustworthy players is a must in the playoffs if you don’t have supreme star power like the Nets or Lakers, which, as of now, the Cs are still in the process of developing that star power, so adding more depth this offseason should be a top priority.

If the Celtics can have not only Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown in terms of rising star power but great depth as well, the roster would at least be in position to win a championship if another fluky year with lots of injuries occurs again in the near future.


Boston Celtics key takeaway No. 2) Veterans

This next takeaway is a big reason why many Boston Celtics fans had issues with Danny Ainge over the past few seasons as GM.

When the Cs acquired all of those draft picks from the Nets, it wasn’t expected for the team to use all of them.


While obviously drafting both Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown was incredible, the fact is this team currently has way too many young players that are asked to play significant minutes early in their careers for a team trying to contend for a championship.

That really came back to bite the Cs this year, as we saw a player like Aaron Nesmith struggle at first, but really improved his play down the stretch.


Nesmith just wasn’t ready to play a lot early on, but was kind of needed to play given Boston’s lack of depth and injuries to key players.

While watching young players blossom is great, in order to win a championship, veterans are required.


Taking a look at the average age of NBA teams last season, the Cs were the eighth youngest roster in the entire league.

The list of the ten oldest teams in terms of average age in the NBA consists of all playoff teams, and includes the two Finals participants in the Suns and Bucks.


Along with average age, each of those two teams also had important 36 year old players in their starting lineups in P.J. Tucker for the Bucks and Chris Paul for the Suns.

While getting older as a team just for the heck of it isn’t the way to go, the Boston Celtics are beyond the point of building through the draft.


They’ve used a ton of picks already with some successes and some failures, and have built a competitive, playoff caliber team.

The next step toward building a true championship contender is finding veterans to slot in the rotation, whether that means through trades or free agency to help support the young and talented players already on the roster.

While acquiring Al Horford is a good start, more veterans still need to be added in order to further elevate the team.


Boston Celtics key takeaway No. 3) Loyalty and patience

The most important takeaway for the Boston Celtics in these playoffs is loyalty and patience are extremely important for championship teams, but especially for teams who build the team by mainly drafting and developing players.

Specifically looking at the NBA Champions, the Milwaukee Bucks, many media members were pushing Giannis to jump ship, but, instead, he chose to remain loyal and re-sign with them.


He knew that the front office was trying its best to build a championship team around him, and he returned the favor by showing he trusted the process.

The team rewarded Giannis with an elite supporting cast, and he, in turn, led the team to a title.


While Tatum and Brown are already signed to their second contracts, they have already talked plenty about wanting to be on the Cs for a long time.

Of course, as we learned from Kyrie Irving, that doesn’t mean a whole lot but all the front office can really do is try its best to make the best team possible surrounding its stars.


As long as Tatum and Brown are on board with what the Celtics are doing from a front office standpoint, the team is allowed to be patient as well.

Once again, taking a look at the Bucks, their two best players in Giannis and Khris Middleton played together for eight whole years before finally winning a title this season.


It took each of them a while to develop considering neither were lottery picks (Middleton was actually a second round pick by the Pistons and was traded to the Bucks after one season) but now that they finally made it to the top, those eight long years made this championship all the more special.

While they went through some growing pains, Giannis and Middleton spent those eight years improving and building chemistry with each other, which made each of them both better individual players and better fits with each other on the court.


With Tatum and Brown entering year five and year six, respectively, that gives them a few years still to be at the same point in their careers as those two, and further build chemistry and their individual games.

Although the Boston Celtics have fallen short the past few years, there is no reason to panic and make drastic moves to win immediately.


I know it goes against what fans often want, but further developing those two players and building around them is the way to go.

As great as it would be to trade for Damian Lillard, there is just no way the Cs can get him without giving up Jaylen Brown, and is a duo of Damian Lillard and Jayson Tatum really good enough to beat teams like the Nets, the Lakers, or the Bucks?


Damian Lillard has probably already hit his peak, but do we really know what Jaylen Brown’s peak is?

Brown is still only 24 years old, while Lillard is 31, so Brown still has many more years to develop and prove he is a true star and a great second option to Tatum.


While Lillard has proven he’s a great player, he is not the true number one option the Celtics would need, and he will most likely decline as a player in the near future.

With all that being said, what Boston’s front office needs to understand heading into this offseason is that their main goal should be to give Tatum and Brown as many reasons as possible to remain loyal to the team, along with remaining patient and waiting for the right opportunities to improve the team (key word being “right“).


The Bucks struck gold with the deal for Jrue Holiday, so all the Cs really need is their own version of such a deal, a great trade or free agent signing that can help elevate the team to a championship level.

As of right now, it isn’t completely clear who that player is, so what Brad Stevens needs to do is remain patient, keep up a great atmosphere to keep Tatum and Brown happy, and strike as soon as the right roster moves present themselves.

Specifically, Stevens needs to learn from his predecessor Danny Ainge’s past mistakes and move on to retooling the roster to make it back to the top of the Eastern Conference and, hopefully to the top of the NBA once more.


Bob


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