Are more Celtics trades looming after Al Horford addition? Examining domino effect of Kemba Walker deal on Boston’s roster

prakash wrote:Hi folks, newbie here.  Celts fan for a while and have tried other forums.  Trying out this one.  Basically, looking for a place to exchange some conversation with Celts fans.

I see Smart and RWill as the best trade capital for the Celts.  If they sign Fournier then they can trade Smart as they have Langford and Nesmith to fill in for him.

My wish list has Kyle Lowry and Bradley Beal.

Lowry may be more gettable considering he is a FA.  Perhaps a sign & trade for Smart and some salary match.  This is least disruptive if you truly want to build around Tatum and Brown.

Beal has to ask out of Washington.  Will Smart, RWill and Langford/Nesmith match the other options for the Wiz?  Ben Simmons?  CJ McCollum?  And such?  Salary match is a big problem here as Beal is set to make $34.5M.  Even with Smart and Tristan, we don't add up.

Regarding trading partners, Golden State is another team that is in clear need of a roster overhaul.  Curry becomes a free agent next year.  They better put together a contender or he will leave.  They will have draft capital and also, a big need to shed salary.  Will they trade Draymond Green for Smart and TT.  That will give them salary flexibility and they can follow up by trading Wiggins and some of their picks for another star (don't know who).

Would we want to do that trade with Golden State?

Hi Prakash. Welcome to the board. A good intro post.

I'd love Lowry if he is willing to take the MLE. I find that extremely unlikely considering he made $30M last year but, on the other hand, he's 35 years old and a 2 year contract @ the MLE might be the longer term deal he'd like and want. I can't see anybody paying him anywhere near $30M this year, not at 35, but then I didn't think anybody would offer Al Horford the contract he got from Philly either.

To get Beal in a trade I think we'd have to give up Jaylen, and that's not happening. Also, your package of Smart, Romeo and RWill I don't think would be enough, but what do I know? Well, one thing I do know is that the NBA Trade Machine says that the $ work for that trade and that, according to them at least, we'd win 2 more games with Beal and without those 3 players. But that's hard to conclude, in my opinion, when you realize that RWill's season numbers were diluted because he didn't become a starter until later in the year, and that Romeo showed us something in the playoffs. Next year will be even better for those two young players. Still, you have to give something of value to get something of value and Beal's a 3X All-Star and an All-NBA 3rd teamer this year. He's only 27, so he's not past his prime.

Since you're new here you might not know I live in the San Francisco bay area. I can tell you it is very unlikely that Steph Curry will leave. He has great roots here, he's a damn demi-god, his kids are happy here, his wife Ayesha has a cooking show and he's already lead a basketball dynasty. It's all good for him here.

Look forward to more posts from you.


Bob


.

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:The Celtics have too much redundancy (e.g. RWIII and Moses, GW and Semi), have too many bigs in general, and too many shooting guards. They need something more than PP and MS at the point, and they need another long wing who can spell Tatum. There are almost certainly more moves coming.

Of course you are right.  Additional roster moves are likely to focus on bringing about a better positional balance to this team.

The most obvious imbalance is having too many centers and not enough quality PG's. So pick your 3 top centers and move the 3 that are not a good fit moving forward.    Moving Walker had to be done so that other things could be done.  As Brad goes through the interview process with several coaching candidates he will be getting a lot of feedback.  

dboss, I think that during the interview process, Brad should focus on coaching skill set, some philosophy and personal compatibilities. By feedback do you mean Brad is going to ask these potential candidates a bunch of questions about the teams or other teams personnel?
If he does that he’s just going to get back a bunch of different answers. Bad idea. The team doesn’t need a committee of outsiders to contribute to a committee of insiders on personnel.  As the saying goes, “To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than 3 people, two of whom are absent.

ktron

A new coach will be hired and that new coach has ideas about the players on this roster. Brad will be probing to determine what the new coach sees right about the team. How would the new coach maximize the talents of Jayson and Jaylen. Is the roster a good fit for his coaching style? Things like that. What I mean by feedback is really about Brad learning what these coaching candidates think about this team. In addition he will be probing for similarities in the candidates coaching philosophy to his and also differences.

Makes sense dboss.

prakash wrote:

dboss wrote:

prakash wrote:Hi folks, newbie here.  Celts fan for a while and have tried other forums.  Trying out this one.  Basically, looking for a place to exchange some conversation with Celts fans.

I see Smart and RWill as the best trade capital for the Celts.  If they sign Fournier then they can trade Smart as they have Langford and Nesmith to fill in for him.

My wish list has Kyle Lowry and Bradley Beal.

Lowry may be more gettable considering he is a FA.  Perhaps a sign & trade for Smart and some salary match.  This is least disruptive if you truly want to build around Tatum and Brown.

Beal has to ask out of Washington.  Will Smart, RWill and Langford/Nesmith match the other options for the Wiz?  Ben Simmons?  CJ McCollum?  And such?  Salary match is a big problem here as Beal is set to make $34.5M.  Even with Smart and Tristan, we don't add up.

Regarding trading partners, Golden State is another team that is in clear need of a roster overhaul.  Curry becomes a free agent next year.  They better put together a contender or he will leave.  They will have draft capital and also, a big need to shed salary.  Will they trade Draymond Green for Smart and TT.  That will give them salary flexibility and they can follow up by trading Wiggins and some of their picks for another star (don't know who).

Would we want to do that trade with Golden State?

prakash

Let me welcome you to this forum.  Overtime if you visit often enough you will get a better history (2009) about this platform.

A lot of stuff packed into you post.

I always like Lowry but at age 35 how much would the Celtics want to spend and based on what we have heard, a sign and trade will hard cap the team.  I do believe that PG is now our #1 need.  Is there another guy we could go after?

Washington would want a guy like Jaylen Brown to part with Beal.  If Beal were to go on the market a lot of teams would want him and Boston would also explore their options but I just do not see him coming here for the pkg that you mentioned.  

Ben has mental issues

CJ is a shooting guard and we do not need another shooting guard.

Draymond has salary of 24, 25 and player option of 27 million remaining.  Do the Celtics want to spend that much on him?  And where does he play?  PF/C.  Draymond has always been one of those glue guys.  Do you think GS is going into a full blown rebuild or are they rebuilding now with several high draft picks and the hope that Klay can return next season?  GS has a significant projected luxury tax bill for the upcoming season.  Too many max contracts so the notion that they may want to shed some salary makes sense and trading for 2 expiring contract coming up in Smart and TT would help.  I really do not see the Celtics as a salary dump partner for them in the case of Draymond.  

Actually I should have been clearer.  I meant, "Will the Celts package be seen as superior by Washington over Ben Simmons or CJ?"  Even if so, salary match will be a problem.  I also I thought that these two are obvious available "big name stars".  Other team packages will likely be made up of prospects and draft picks.  I don't think that trading bigger name stars will make sense.  As an example, would we be interested in trading Jaylen Brown for Beal?

As for Draymond, he is a better version of Smart.  The likelihood can be questioned but would you make that trade?

As for why GS "might" make that trade is for back court depth and a better 5.  They can dump Looney and get some salary relief as well.  And no, GS can't get into rebuild.  They don't need to.  They need to re-tool, just like us.  A better option for them would be to trade Wiggins (salary) plus their high draft picks for another Star wing.  The question is who would be available?  I don't see many options there as for now.

Ok I got it now.

I do not think the pkg would be more acceptable to Washington. Ben is still an allstar player and CJ is still a very good 2 guard. The Celtics would not be able to get Beal for that pkg (Smart, RWill and Langford/Nesmith) I also do not think CJ or Ben would move the needle enough for Washington to trade Beal.

I would not use Smart and TT to get Draymond because it does not address our big positional need at PG. As a matter of fact it would exacerbate our PG depth.

Wiggins has been a player that many people feel has not lived up to expectations . He seems to be playing well at GS although his contract is on the high side relative to his production.

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:The Celtics have too much redundancy (e.g. RWIII and Moses, GW and Semi), have too many bigs in general, and too many shooting guards. They need something more than PP and MS at the point, and they need another long wing who can spell Tatum. There are almost certainly more moves coming.

Of course you are right.  Additional roster moves are likely to focus on bringing about a better positional balance to this team.

The most obvious imbalance is having too many centers and not enough quality PG's. So pick your 3 top centers and move the 3 that are not a good fit moving forward.    Moving Walker had to be done so that other things could be done.  As Brad goes through the interview process with several coaching candidates he will be getting a lot of feedback.  

dboss, I think that during the interview process, Brad should focus on coaching skill set, some philosophy and personal compatibilities. By feedback do you mean Brad is going to ask these potential candidates a bunch of questions about the teams or other teams personnel?
If he does that he’s just going to get back a bunch of different answers. Bad idea. The team doesn’t need a committee of outsiders to contribute to a committee of insiders on personnel.  As the saying goes, “To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than 3 people, two of whom are absent.

ktron

A new coach will be hired and that new coach has ideas about the players on this roster.  Brad will be probing to determine what the new coach sees right about the team.   How would the new coach maximize the talents of Jayson and Jaylen.   Is the roster a good fit for his coaching style?  Things like that.  What I mean by feedback is really about Brad learning what these coaching candidates think about this team.  In addition he will be probing for similarities in the candidates coaching philosophy to his and also differences.  

Gotcha

bobheckler wrote:

prakash wrote:Hi folks, newbie here.  Celts fan for a while and have tried other forums.  Trying out this one.  Basically, looking for a place to exchange some conversation with Celts fans.

I see Smart and RWill as the best trade capital for the Celts.  If they sign Fournier then they can trade Smart as they have Langford and Nesmith to fill in for him.

My wish list has Kyle Lowry and Bradley Beal.

Lowry may be more gettable considering he is a FA.  Perhaps a sign & trade for Smart and some salary match.  This is least disruptive if you truly want to build around Tatum and Brown.

Beal has to ask out of Washington.  Will Smart, RWill and Langford/Nesmith match the other options for the Wiz?  Ben Simmons?  CJ McCollum?  And such?  Salary match is a big problem here as Beal is set to make $34.5M.  Even with Smart and Tristan, we don't add up.

Regarding trading partners, Golden State is another team that is in clear need of a roster overhaul.  Curry becomes a free agent next year.  They better put together a contender or he will leave.  They will have draft capital and also, a big need to shed salary.  Will they trade Draymond Green for Smart and TT.  That will give them salary flexibility and they can follow up by trading Wiggins and some of their picks for another star (don't know who).

Would we want to do that trade with Golden State?

Hi Prakash.  Welcome to the board.  A good intro post.

I'd love Lowry if he is willing to take the MLE.  I find that extremely unlikely considering he made $30M last year but, on the other hand, he's 35 years old and a 2 year contract @ the MLE might be the longer term deal he'd like and want.  I can't see anybody paying him anywhere near $30M this year, not at 35, but then I didn't think anybody would offer Al Horford the contract he got from Philly either.

To get Beal in a trade I think we'd have to give up Jaylen, and that's not happening.  Also, your package of Smart, Romeo and RWill I don't think would be enough, but what do I know?  Well, one thing I do know is that the NBA Trade Machine says that the $ work for that trade and that, according to them at least, we'd win 2 more games with Beal and without those 3 players.  But that's hard to conclude, in my opinion, when you realize that RWill's season numbers were diluted because he didn't become a starter until later in the year, and that Romeo showed us something in the playoffs.  Next year will be even better for those two young players.  Still, you have to give something of value to get something of value and Beal's a 3X All-Star and an All-NBA 3rd teamer this year.  He's only 27, so he's not past his prime.

Since you're new here you might not know I live in the San Francisco bay area.  I can tell you it is very unlikely that Steph Curry will leave.  He has great roots here, he's a damn demi-god, his kids are happy here, his wife Ayesha has a cooking show and he's already lead a basketball dynasty.  It's all good for him here.

Look forward to more posts from you.


Bob


.

Small world, I am here too. Was a Dubs season ticket holder until they moved to SF and pissed me off by changing my 12th row seats to 24th.

Celts are my #1 team. Dubs #2. My wife is Dubs all the way. Would go to the Celts game wearing a Pierce jersey. My wife would disown me for one game and other regulars around me would brand me a traitor. All in good fun.

I just believe that if GS does not improve the team to vault to contender status, Curry will leave. I could understand if they didn't have assets to improve. Depending upon the lottery, they will the draft picks and Wiseman to make a move.

dboss wrote:

prakash wrote:

dboss wrote:

prakash wrote:Hi folks, newbie here.  Celts fan for a while and have tried other forums.  Trying out this one.  Basically, looking for a place to exchange some conversation with Celts fans.

I see Smart and RWill as the best trade capital for the Celts.  If they sign Fournier then they can trade Smart as they have Langford and Nesmith to fill in for him.

My wish list has Kyle Lowry and Bradley Beal.

Lowry may be more gettable considering he is a FA.  Perhaps a sign & trade for Smart and some salary match.  This is least disruptive if you truly want to build around Tatum and Brown.

Beal has to ask out of Washington.  Will Smart, RWill and Langford/Nesmith match the other options for the Wiz?  Ben Simmons?  CJ McCollum?  And such?  Salary match is a big problem here as Beal is set to make $34.5M.  Even with Smart and Tristan, we don't add up.

Regarding trading partners, Golden State is another team that is in clear need of a roster overhaul.  Curry becomes a free agent next year.  They better put together a contender or he will leave.  They will have draft capital and also, a big need to shed salary.  Will they trade Draymond Green for Smart and TT.  That will give them salary flexibility and they can follow up by trading Wiggins and some of their picks for another star (don't know who).

Would we want to do that trade with Golden State?

prakash

Let me welcome you to this forum.  Overtime if you visit often enough you will get a better history (2009) about this platform.

A lot of stuff packed into you post.

I always like Lowry but at age 35 how much would the Celtics want to spend and based on what we have heard, a sign and trade will hard cap the team.  I do believe that PG is now our #1 need.  Is there another guy we could go after?

Washington would want a guy like Jaylen Brown to part with Beal.  If Beal were to go on the market a lot of teams would want him and Boston would also explore their options but I just do not see him coming here for the pkg that you mentioned.  

Ben has mental issues

CJ is a shooting guard and we do not need another shooting guard.

Draymond has salary of 24, 25 and player option of 27 million remaining.  Do the Celtics want to spend that much on him?  And where does he play?  PF/C.  Draymond has always been one of those glue guys.  Do you think GS is going into a full blown rebuild or are they rebuilding now with several high draft picks and the hope that Klay can return next season?  GS has a significant projected luxury tax bill for the upcoming season.  Too many max contracts so the notion that they may want to shed some salary makes sense and trading for 2 expiring contract coming up in Smart and TT would help.  I really do not see the Celtics as a salary dump partner for them in the case of Draymond.  

Actually I should have been clearer.  I meant, "Will the Celts package be seen as superior by Washington over Ben Simmons or CJ?"  Even if so, salary match will be a problem.  I also I thought that these two are obvious available "big name stars".  Other team packages will likely be made up of prospects and draft picks.  I don't think that trading bigger name stars will make sense.  As an example, would we be interested in trading Jaylen Brown for Beal?

As for Draymond, he is a better version of Smart.  The likelihood can be questioned but would you make that trade?

As for why GS "might" make that trade is for back court depth and a better 5.  They can dump Looney and get some salary relief as well.  And no, GS can't get into rebuild.  They don't need to.  They need to re-tool, just like us.  A better option for them would be to trade Wiggins (salary) plus their high draft picks for another Star wing.  The question is who would be available?  I don't see many options there as for now.

Ok I got it now.

I do not think the pkg would be more acceptable to Washington.  Ben is still an allstar player and CJ is still a very good 2 guard.  The Celtics would not be able to get Beal for that pkg (Smart, RWill and Langford/Nesmith)  I also do not think CJ or Ben would move the needle enough for Washington to trade Beal.

I would not use Smart and TT to get Draymond because it does not address our big positional need at PG.  As a matter of fact it would exacerbate our PG depth.  

Wiggins has been a player that many people feel has not lived up to expectations .  He seems to be playing well at GS although his contract is on the high side relative to his production.

I would differ on that point. With Horford and Green, the ball will be flying around the court. Green is a better passer than Smart. A better defender too. Poorer offensive player but adequate. You could roll out a lineup of Horford, Green, Tatum, Brown and Langford. That will work very well and we will not notice the absence of a traditional point guard.

prakash wrote:

dboss wrote:

prakash wrote:

dboss wrote:

prakash wrote:Hi folks, newbie here.  Celts fan for a while and have tried other forums.  Trying out this one.  Basically, looking for a place to exchange some conversation with Celts fans.

I see Smart and RWill as the best trade capital for the Celts.  If they sign Fournier then they can trade Smart as they have Langford and Nesmith to fill in for him.

My wish list has Kyle Lowry and Bradley Beal.

Lowry may be more gettable considering he is a FA.  Perhaps a sign & trade for Smart and some salary match.  This is least disruptive if you truly want to build around Tatum and Brown.

Beal has to ask out of Washington.  Will Smart, RWill and Langford/Nesmith match the other options for the Wiz?  Ben Simmons?  CJ McCollum?  And such?  Salary match is a big problem here as Beal is set to make $34.5M.  Even with Smart and Tristan, we don't add up.

Regarding trading partners, Golden State is another team that is in clear need of a roster overhaul.  Curry becomes a free agent next year.  They better put together a contender or he will leave.  They will have draft capital and also, a big need to shed salary.  Will they trade Draymond Green for Smart and TT.  That will give them salary flexibility and they can follow up by trading Wiggins and some of their picks for another star (don't know who).

Would we want to do that trade with Golden State?

prakash

Let me welcome you to this forum.  Overtime if you visit often enough you will get a better history (2009) about this platform.

A lot of stuff packed into you post.

I always like Lowry but at age 35 how much would the Celtics want to spend and based on what we have heard, a sign and trade will hard cap the team.  I do believe that PG is now our #1 need.  Is there another guy we could go after?

Washington would want a guy like Jaylen Brown to part with Beal.  If Beal were to go on the market a lot of teams would want him and Boston would also explore their options but I just do not see him coming here for the pkg that you mentioned.  

Ben has mental issues

CJ is a shooting guard and we do not need another shooting guard.

Draymond has salary of 24, 25 and player option of 27 million remaining.  Do the Celtics want to spend that much on him?  And where does he play?  PF/C.  Draymond has always been one of those glue guys.  Do you think GS is going into a full blown rebuild or are they rebuilding now with several high draft picks and the hope that Klay can return next season?  GS has a significant projected luxury tax bill for the upcoming season.  Too many max contracts so the notion that they may want to shed some salary makes sense and trading for 2 expiring contract coming up in Smart and TT would help.  I really do not see the Celtics as a salary dump partner for them in the case of Draymond.  

Actually I should have been clearer.  I meant, "Will the Celts package be seen as superior by Washington over Ben Simmons or CJ?"  Even if so, salary match will be a problem.  I also I thought that these two are obvious available "big name stars".  Other team packages will likely be made up of prospects and draft picks.  I don't think that trading bigger name stars will make sense.  As an example, would we be interested in trading Jaylen Brown for Beal?

As for Draymond, he is a better version of Smart.  The likelihood can be questioned but would you make that trade?

As for why GS "might" make that trade is for back court depth and a better 5.  They can dump Looney and get some salary relief as well.  And no, GS can't get into rebuild.  They don't need to.  They need to re-tool, just like us.  A better option for them would be to trade Wiggins (salary) plus their high draft picks for another Star wing.  The question is who would be available?  I don't see many options there as for now.

Ok I got it now.

I do not think the pkg would be more acceptable to Washington.  Ben is still an allstar player and CJ is still a very good 2 guard.  The Celtics would not be able to get Beal for that pkg (Smart, RWill and Langford/Nesmith)  I also do not think CJ or Ben would move the needle enough for Washington to trade Beal.

I would not use Smart and TT to get Draymond because it does not address our big positional need at PG.  As a matter of fact it would exacerbate our PG depth.  

Wiggins has been a player that many people feel has not lived up to expectations .  He seems to be playing well at GS although his contract is on the high side relative to his production.

I would differ on that point.  With Horford and Green, the ball will be flying around the court.  Green is a better passer than Smart.  A better defender too.  Poorer offensive player but adequate.  You could roll out a lineup of Horford, Green, Tatum, Brown and Langford.  That will work very well and we will not notice the absence of a traditional point guard.

I like the way Green plays as well but that lineup has no point guard and not enough shot makers. they would never outscore the other team. That lineup has 2 non scorers.

I am pretty certain their top need with Kemba gone will be at the point.

dboss wrote:

I like the way Green plays as well but that lineup has no point guard and not enough shot makers.  they would never outscore the other team.  That lineup has 2 non scorers.

I am pretty certain their top need with Kemba gone will be at the point.

I see your point. Perhaps Nesmith can replace Langford.

Last year I saw ball movement and a decent 4 as the biggest problems for the Celts. So I was following that line of thought. Other approaches will be equally valid.

I’m not sold that we need a first string PG. I am sold that we need to do something about the glut of bigs on our lineup and add scoring. I assume resigning Fournier helps a bit with the latter. So, you run a starting five of:

Marcus
Brown
Fournier
Tatum
Williams

Playable bench includes:

Pritchard (I expect a big jump out of him)
Horford
Nesmith
Langford
Brown (Moses)

You could do a whole hell of a lot worse than that roster. Folks to to put on the trade block in order to fill gaps include: Grant Williams, Luke Kornet, Tristan Thompson. Might have to include either Langford or Nesmith to make salaries work.

Folks that might be interesting targets: Delon Wright (SAC), Josh Jackson (DET), Coby White (CHI), Terrence Ross (ORL), TJ Warren (IND), Jeremy Lamb (IND), Davis Bertans (WAS), Kyle Anderson (MEM), Ricky Rubio (MIN), Malik Beasley (MIN), Norman Powell (POR), Dejounte Murray (SAN).

All of these players are attainable without touching players not mentioned above. Inducing the other team to shoot can obviously complicate things. That’s why Brad gets paid millions and I am left here more or less useless on my couch.

This is an excerpt from an article.  The rest of the article is not relevant.

I bring this to point out the value Celtic President Brad Stevens places upon Marcus Smart and, therefore, what the likelihood of his being traded or not resigned are.

"Boston's internal issues have recently come into focus with Danny Ainge stepping down as general manager, Brad Stevens surrendering his coaching seat and Kemba Walker being traded. Per Weiss, Walker's relationship with Stevens had become particularly tense. There was a sense that Stevens was harder on certain players than others, with Walker among those most aggressively criticized and Marcus Smart on the more coach's-pet side of that equation. "


Bob


.

Yes, a pet bulldog.

Assuming it is true,

So, if 2 out of three in this not-love triangle are gone or mostly gone, does that mean that we get to keep Smart?

Other players may have been less aggressively critical. Is Brad sufficiently isolated from the returning players that the new coach can reset the dynamic and all returning players will let bygones be bygones?

I want to keep Smart, not so much Thompson.