POST GAME PHX SUNS - AWAY

Celtics Wrap: Boston Drops Third Straight To Close West Coast Trip
It wasn't Boston's night Friday


NESN by Patrick McAvoy

The Boston Celtics ended their five-game West Coast trip Friday night the same way they started it, with a loss.

Boston looked strong in the first quarter but the Phoenix Suns would prove to be too much as they won 111-90.

With the loss the Celtics’ record drops to 13-14, while the Suns improve to 21-4.

You can check out the full box score here.

ONE BIG TAKEAWAY
The Celtics have been uncharacteristically bad in the second quarter lately and Friday was no different. After being outscored in the second quarter against the Los Angeles Clippers by 16 on Wednesday, Boston responded by losing the second quarter Friday night by 17 to Phoenix.

Boston only trailed by one point after the first 12 minutes but then dug itself too big of a whole. The Celtics even won the third quarter by three points, but it wasn’t enough.

The biggest indicator of Boston’s struggles Friday was their inconsistent three-point shooting. The Celtics finished the night with an uninspiring 4-for-26 from long range for a disgusting 15.4%. All-in-all the Celtics looked out of sorts against the Suns.


STARS OF THE GAME
— Jayson Tatum arguably was the lone bright spot for the Celtics despite the loss. The Boston forward finished the night with a team-high 24 points to go along with seven rebounds and three assists.


— JaVale McGee was unstoppable in the paint. The big man made a spot start while the Suns are without Deandre Ayton but McGee shined in his absence finishing the night with 21 points, 15 rebounds and two blocks.


— Former Celtic forward Jae Crowder was impressive against his former team Friday night finishing the night with 16 points and nine rebounds.

WAGER WATCH
It was a bad night if you took the over on the Celtics’ total points scored by the starting lineup. Tatum, Al Horford, Marcus Smart and Robert Williams Williams all went under their respective over/under numbers set by DraftKings Sportsbook. If you had faith in Crowder to have a revenge games you were in luck. His over/under line was set at 11.5 points with -110 odds.

UP NEXT
After taking the weekend off, the Celtics return to TD Garden to take on the reigning champion Milwaukee Bucks with tip-off scheduled for 7:30 p.m. ET.

112288

This is half a team.  The other half will show up once we make some major trades and bring in players that know their roles and responsibilities and can execute.

112288

Hi,
I stopped watching the game somewhere in the 2nd quarter - so disgusting it was. I'm talking about Celtics, how they played.
There seems to be total disconnect between the players or, is it disconnect between the players and the coach.
I don't know about blowing up the whole team or major trades or something else, but something has to be done.
Lets see what Udoka and Brad are going to do.

AK

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - Vince Lombardi.  The Celtics are tired.  Physically, emotionally, everyway.  A 5 game west coast road trip with two b2bs is tough, by anybody's standards.   We needed to suck it up and fight through it and we didn't.

We shot 4-26 from 3.  That's 15.4%.  If that's who we are then we are heading for the basement toute suite.  If that's not who we are then it's an aberration, not to be overdwelled upon.  The problem is that it's a little of both.  There have been just too many games where we cannot throw the ball in the ocean from 3 to just ignore.  Our entire starting 5 was a combined 1-18 from 3.

Tatum came out from the locker room and fought.  He was an execrable 1-7 from 3, but he fought and I'm in a treasure hunt for any silver lining here.  

Smart came out and fought but, in the nature of Marcus Smart, he takes too much on himself.  He was 1-13, 0-5 from 3.  He had zero assists.  Zero.  The guy who asked Ime to make him the starting point guard, to put the ball in his hands, had zero assists, but took 13 fgas.  Chris Paul, who actually is a point guard and not just a wannabe, had 12 assists.  Only 10 points, which is still more than Smart's 4, on 4-9 but he did his primary job and that was to get his teammates involved in the scoring.

Al Horford's play has been a revelation this year.  We've all agreed that he looks like he's 5 years younger than he actually is.  Not the 2nd half of this trip he hasn't.  Not against the Lakers, not against the Clippers and last night he looked positively ancient.  Last night they were setting picks and Al wasn't stepping up to stop the hook off the pick.  An open shot, or a roll, for them was the result because it was 2 Suns vs our 1 on-the-ball defender.  The 2nd Celtic defender laid back because he didn't trust himself to stay with the ball if he went to the rim.  We've seen Al do pnrs well, very well in fact, but he didn't last night.  I think it was fatigue.  He sure as hell didn't suddenly forget how to play basketball, so I'm sticking with fatigue.

Like Marcus Smart, RWill has been trying to do too much.  He's overreacting to penetrations, over rotating.

Pritchard 1-5.  Cameron Payne took Pritchard down low in the 3rd.  Pritchard did his best to defend and Payne missed his shot.  The problem is that he got his own miss and put it in because no other Celtic dropped down to help Pritchard, nor did they come for the rebound.  It was almost like they expected Payne's shot to go in and, when it didn't, they weren't in a position to take advantage of that miss.

Javale McGee, the 34 year old player with ADHD who is averaging < 16mpg this season, beat the snot out of all our bigs.  21 points on 9-16, 1-2 from 3, 15 rebounds in cluding 7 offensive.  2 assists, zero turnovers.  More assists than our starting point guard.  More rebounds than Horford, Williams and Enes combined.  As many offensive rebounds as Horford, Williams and Enes combined.  As many 3pt fgm as our entire starting 5 combined.

The NBA has changed, and we haven't changed with it.  This NBA is demanding high-quality shooters, especially from 3, first and high-quality defenders second.  We are built the opposite.  We have high-quality defenders who are mediocre shooters, and that's "at best" for some of them like Smart.  The Suns are all shooters.  They aren't a big team, they certainly wasn't last night with Ayton out, but they can shoot from the top of the roster to the bottom.

I'm also starting to wonder a bit about Ime and how much blame deserves to be placed at his feet.  That might be a little unfair, not only because he's a rookie but also because he has lost a lot of games by small margins and he hasn't had Jaylen Brown for 4 of the 5 games on this road trip, but nobody should be immune from scrutiny.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360214


Bob


.

Excellent post bob, you pointed out alot of our flaws in an elegant accurate way. Okay fatigue had something to do with it. How about players overstepping their roles and not understanding, which you were referring to as trying to do too much? Another observation, there are so many young baby players coming in with more burst and much better shooting/scoring ability than Smart, like Cole Anthony and Tyrese Halliburton. When they are on they can light it up with 5-6 3 pointers no problem, they never have so many bad nights in a row like Smart. Smart has his strengths too and is a very loyal Celtic, but he still steps over his boundaries, shooting us out of games all the time.

I’ve already elaborated on other threads how limited RWill’s game is despite his athleticism. Can only imagine Dave Cowens and Paul Silas wincing and shaking their head, if they had to watch our guys get destroyed in the paint by 34 year old Javele McGee. Please come back healthy Jaylen, Tatum can’t do it by himself and Celtic Nation needs you. But only come back if you are fully healthy.

They finished 1-4 on this road trip.

It is time to shake up the lineup.

We are playing many games with 2 PG's and 2 centers.

I would bring AH off the bench.  

I would also send Marcus Smart to the bench because Schroder even with the blemishes is a better offensive player and Marcus is consistently bad on offense and he is slow getting up and down.

Al Horford is already showing signs of fatigue.  Ime is playing him 30+ MPG in a switch heavy defense.  It is too much for him.  His 3 point shooting is down to 29% for the year.  

The Celtics desperately need for Jaylen to get healthy.

The team needs to rely on Tatum, Brown and Schroder to carry the offense and they need an outside shooting option in Romeo and the RW vertical threat.

The Celtics are 26th in the league in first QTR points scored so you have to shake up the lineup.

I would immediately insert Romeo Langford into the SG spot and Put Grant at PF.

Once Jaylen returns I would lean heavily on a 3 wing lineup of Langford, Brown and Tatum along with Schroder and RW.

Our starters were 1 for 18 on threes. Either we need to start better shooters or stop our starters from taking so many 3s.

I might be a little impatient, but we keep hoping RWill is going to be our answer at the 5. When is he gonna have a 24-15 type game, starting centers like Capella and Valenciunis have these type of games all the time and they are not even all stars. Or does he not have the skill set to ever get to that level?

dboss wrote:They finished 1-4 on this road trip.

It is time to shake up the lineup.

We are playing many games with 2 PG's and 2 centers.

I would bring AH off the bench.  

I would also send Marcus Smart to the bench because Schroder even with the blemishes is a better offensive player and Marcus is consistently bad on offense and he is slow getting up and down.

Al Horford is already showing signs of fatigue.  Ime is playing him 30+ MPG in a switch heavy defense.  It is too much for him.  His 3 point shooting is down to 29% for the year.  

The Celtics desperately need for Jaylen to get healthy.

The team needs to rely on Tatum, Brown and Schroder to carry the offense and they need an outside shooting option in Romeo and the RW vertical threat.

The Celtics are 26th in the league in first QTR points scored so you have to shake up the lineup.

I would immediately insert Romeo Langford into the SG spot and Put Grant at PF.

Once Jaylen returns I would lean heavily on a 3 wing lineup of Langford, Brown and Tatum along with Schroder and RW.

OMG your starting line up OMG

bobheckler wrote:"Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - Vince Lombardi.  The Celtics are tired.  Physically, emotionally, everyway.  A 5 game west coast road trip with two b2bs is tough, by anybody's standards.   We needed to suck it up and fight through it and we didn't.

We shot 4-26 from 3.  That's 15.4%.  If that's who we are then we are heading for the basement toute suite.  If that's not who we are then it's an aberration, not to be overdwelled upon.  The problem is that it's a little of both.  There have been just too many games where we cannot throw the ball in the ocean from 3 to just ignore.  Our entire starting 5 was a combined 1-18 from 3.

Tatum came out from the locker room and fought.  He was an execrable 1-7 from 3, but he fought and I'm in a treasure hunt for any silver lining here.  

Smart came out and fought but, in the nature of Marcus Smart, he takes too much on himself.  He was 1-13, 0-5 from 3.  He had zero assists.  Zero.  The guy who asked Ime to make him the starting point guard, to put the ball in his hands, had zero assists, but took 13 fgas.  Chris Paul, who actually is a point guard and not just a wannabe, had 12 assists.  Only 10 points, which is still more than Smart's 4, on 4-9 but he did his primary job and that was to get his teammates involved in the scoring.

Al Horford's play has been a revelation this year.  We've all agreed that he looks like he's 5 years younger than he actually is.  Not the 2nd half of this trip he hasn't.  Not against the Lakers, not against the Clippers and last night he looked positively ancient.  Last night they were setting picks and Al wasn't stepping up to stop the hook off the pick.  An open shot, or a roll, for them was the result because it was 2 Suns vs our 1 on-the-ball defender.  The 2nd Celtic defender laid back because he didn't trust himself to stay with the ball if he went to the rim.  We've seen Al do pnrs well, very well in fact, but he didn't last night.  I think it was fatigue.  He sure as hell didn't suddenly forget how to play basketball, so I'm sticking with fatigue.

Like Marcus Smart, RWill has been trying to do too much.  He's overreacting to penetrations, over rotating.

Pritchard 1-5.  Cameron Payne took Pritchard down low in the 3rd.  Pritchard did his best to defend and Payne missed his shot.  The problem is that he got his own miss and put it in because no other Celtic dropped down to help Pritchard, nor did they come for the rebound.  It was almost like they expected Payne's shot to go in and, when it didn't, they weren't in a position to take advantage of that miss.

Javale McGee, the 34 year old player with ADHD who is averaging < 16mpg this season, beat the snot out of all our bigs.  21 points on 9-16, 1-2 from 3, 15 rebounds in cluding 7 offensive.  2 assists, zero turnovers.  More assists than our starting point guard.  More rebounds than Horford, Williams and Enes combined.  As many offensive rebounds as Horford, Williams and Enes combined.  As many 3pt fgm as our entire starting 5 combined.

The NBA has changed, and we haven't changed with it.  This NBA is demanding high-quality shooters, especially from 3, first and high-quality defenders second.  We are built the opposite.  We have high-quality defenders who are mediocre shooters, and that's "at best" for some of them like Smart.  The Suns are all shooters.  They aren't a big team, they certainly wasn't last night with Ayton out, but they can shoot from the top of the roster to the bottom.

I'm also starting to wonder a bit about Ime and how much blame deserves to be placed at his feet.  That might be a little unfair, not only because he's a rookie but also because he has lost a lot of games by small margins and he hasn't had Jaylen Brown for 4 of the 5 games on this road trip, but nobody should be immune from scrutiny.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360214


Bob


.

You mentioned CP3 had 12 assists. Our entire team had a grand total of 13. Ugggh.

I went to a comedy show last night because a friend of mine was the feature act. I laughed through the entire show.
Good thing I missed this game. I probably would’ve still laughed but only to keep from crying. Our feature act obviously stunk. Taint funny McGee!

dboss wrote:They finished 1-4 on this road trip.

It is time to shake up the lineup.

We are playing many games with 2 PG's and 2 centers.

I would bring AH off the bench.  

I would also send Marcus Smart to the bench because Schroder even with the blemishes is a better offensive player and Marcus is consistently bad on offense and he is slow getting up and down.

Al Horford is already showing signs of fatigue.  Ime is playing him 30+ MPG in a switch heavy defense.  It is too much for him.  His 3 point shooting is down to 29% for the year.  

The Celtics desperately need for Jaylen to get healthy.

The team needs to rely on Tatum, Brown and Schroder to carry the offense and they need an outside shooting option in Romeo and the RW vertical threat.

The Celtics are 26th in the league in first QTR points scored so you have to shake up the lineup.

I would immediately insert Romeo Langford into the SG spot and Put Grant at PF.

Once Jaylen returns I would lean heavily on a 3 wing lineup of Langford, Brown and Tatum along with Schroder and RW.

Dboss would start Grant Williams at PF.

There is now an 8th Seal of the Coming Apocalypse.  

Nothing makes sense anymore...








Bob


.

cowens/oldschool wrote:I might be a little impatient, but we keep hoping RWill is going to be our answer at the 5. When is he gonna have a 24-15 type game, starting centers like Capella and Valenciunis have these type of games all the time and they are not even all stars. Or does he not have the skill set to ever get to that level?

Cow you have been all over Rob like a bad fitting second hand overcoat from the Goodwill Center.

Rob is not a high end offensive player. He does not get a lot of opportunities to score because we have a perimeter heavy offense. In the last 6 games he has made 21 of 28 shots (75%) and went 8 of 10 from the line (80%) Defensively he was horrible last night and so was the rest of the team. He still scored 10 points on 4-5 shooting and made both FT. He also had 5 rebounds, 2 blocks an assist and no turnovers. He only played 22 minutes. He even made a elbow jumper. Good luck waiting for a 24/15 game. In his last 6 games he is only getting 4.6 shots per game and he is still making them. I still think he could become a very good outside shooter (not 3 point range) but a center who can make the elbow jumpers.

Bob

"Dboss would start Grant Williams at PF.

There is now an 8th Seal of the Coming Apocalypse.

Nothing makes sense anymore..."

Until Jaylen gets back. I see him starting as a stop gap option. The two big lineup is not working mainly because AH has to make shots and he is not doing that for us. At least Grant has been knocking down shots albeit limited volume. My prefer lineup is a 3 wing lineup with RW and no Marcus Smart.

ktron

Romeo Langford and Grant Williams continue to shoot 40% from deep. The way I see it you need guys who can make shots. Our offense cannot improve if guys cannot make shots.

AH, Smart and Josh are simply not making shots. Josh got the rona. We just got pasted on the road so you have to try a different lineup to address our lack of shooting accuracy.

Schroder is 3rd in FGA. Once JB returns you will have 3 high volume shooters in the lineup. Whichever 2 guys are added to the lineup should not be volume shooters but you need them to be shot makers.

dboss wrote:ktron

Romeo Langford and Grant Williams continue to shoot 40% from deep.  The way I see it you need guys who can make shots.  Our offense cannot improve if guys cannot make shots.  

AH, Smart and Josh are simply not making shots.  Josh  got the rona.  We just got pasted on the road so you have to try a different lineup to address our lack of shooting accuracy.

Schroder is  3rd in FGA.  Once JB returns you will have 3 high volume shooters in the lineup.  Whichever 2 guys are added to the lineup should  not be volume shooters but you need them to be shot makers.  

I guess. We don't have many other options anyway. Grrrrr

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:ktron

Romeo Langford and Grant Williams continue to shoot 40% from deep.  The way I see it you need guys who can make shots.  Our offense cannot improve if guys cannot make shots.  

AH, Smart and Josh are simply not making shots.  Josh  got the rona.  We just got pasted on the road so you have to try a different lineup to address our lack of shooting accuracy.

Schroder is  3rd in FGA.  Once JB returns you will have 3 high volume shooters in the lineup.  Whichever 2 guys are added to the lineup should  not be volume shooters but you need them to be shot makers.  

I guess. We don't have many other options anyway. Grrrrr

True so if you put 70+% from the field RW at center and a guy who can make shots from the outside the offense should improve. I would also pair the Jays on the same side of the court. We already know that teams are going to double Tatum on one side of the court but if Jaylen is connected to him they will not be able to double team Jayson effectively. A third guy like Romeo or Grant provide a catch and shoot option when the ball swings over to them. I would try that strategy to see if it works.

I'm with dboss. Langford and GWilliams seem to complement the others, maybe because they don't assume it's on them to score every trip down. Of our current starters Schroder is the best 3 shooter at 34%. That's not good in today's league. Langford and GWill are less inclined to jack up threes if they don't feel it's the best shot. But they are very good defenders, get their noses in there and make things happen. Smart, Horford, and Richardson is a pretty good bench. The best rotation is not necessarily the best paid players.

Atcross

Listening to Ime's presser after the game sounds like a 25 game sample size is enough to make a few changes even though we have seen several starters miss games.  He has opened the door for changes

The East is still tightly packed 4 through 10.  There is still time to improve but no time to wait to improve.  Changes must come now.

21-point loss was not the 40 I predicted but enough to get the frying pan heated up. The next 5 home games will bring the house down. Going 1-4 on this home stand run will look like a gift. Prepare for 0-5.

db

dbrown4 wrote:21-point loss was not the 40 I predicted but enough to get the frying pan heated up.  The next 5 home games will bring the house down.  Going 1-4 on this home stand run will look like a gift.  Prepare for 0-5.  

db  

Db 

0 and 5 would be a disaster.  Watching GS and Sixers.  GSW is a great defensive team.  Guess what?  They play a lot of zone as does the Suns and the Heat.  It's crazy.  They are playing a basic 2-1-2 zone and switching to a 3-2 and a 2-3 depending on perimeter threats or low post action.

Our heavy dose of switch everything defense needs to go away.  There is no magin for error.

Boston would do well to perfect zone defenses.

They actually work.

Hey dboss,

Thank you for being the voice of Sam when I jump off the deep end with this team.  Honestly, I just don't see us beating any of the 5 teams coming up.  I know MIL and GSW are off the table.  Knicks beat us lasts time.  Maybe.  6ers?  Maybe.  If you can find a win, let me know.  I just don't see it.  

db