Kemba’s finished. Thibs’ skates are oiled up and ready

Gotta feel kind of bad for one of the good guys in this league-

New York Knicks guard Kemba Walker has come to an agreement with the team to sit out the remainder of the season. The veteran guard will now focus on preparing his body, specifically his ailing knee, for the 2022-23 season. Team president Leon Rose released a statement Wednesday, saying Walker made the decision. 
"We fully support Kemba's decision to shut it down for the remainder of the season and to use this time to prepare for next season," Rose wrote. "His long-term success on the court remains our priority."  
The Knicks surprised everyone last season by earning the No. 4 overall seed in the Eastern Conference. But after they crashed out of the playoffs in the first round, in large part because they couldn't score, they decided to make a number of offensive-minded moves. Walker was one of them, singing a two-year,
Things have not worked out for either party. The Knicks are stuck in 12th place in the Eastern Conference at 25-34, and will need a post-All-Star break surge to even make the play-in tournament. Walker, meanwhile, has been in and out of the lineup due to injury and coaching decisions. In late November and early December, he was benched for 10 games, and later in January missed nine straight due to his knee soreness. Walker has been dealing with knee problems for years, and widespread concerns around the league about his ability to stay on the court long-term were why he had to settle for a low-money deal from the Knicks.

When Walker was able to get on the court this season, he averaged 11.6 points and 3.5 assists, while shooting 40.3 percent from the field and 36.7 percent from 3-point land. There were flashes of his old brilliance -- his 44-point, nine-rebound, eight-assist performance against the Wizards just before Christmas stands out -- but they were few and far between. He had as many games with sub-five points (6) as he did with 20-plus points (6). 


With one year and about $9 million in guaranteed money left on his contract, Walker should be tradeable, and his agent is expected to explore other opportunities, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Perhaps in a different situation or role, Walker could still be an effective player, but sadly it appears his days of being a difference-maker are over. 

Thibs isn't playing Cam Reddish either, despite the Knicks trading for him.  That has to piss Leon Rose and James Dolan off.  Randle has tuned Thibs out.  Thibs is a really good coach but his style turns players off after 2-3 years.

The Knicks are 25-34.  The 10th spot in the EC is held by Atlanta @ 28-30, .483.  If we say that the Knicks need to get to a .483 winning % to make the 10th play-in slot (let's assume Atlanta stays @ .483 AND that the Knicks own any tie breakers with Atlanta), then NY would have to win 15 of their remaining games 23 games to get to 40 wins (.487).  This means they have to go 15-8, .652, the rest of the way.  Their remaining schedule has them playing Miami 2X, Philly 2X, Phoenix, Memphis, Utah and Cleveland.  There's 8 likely losses, plus they play Atlanta once in what has to be a must win game to ensure the tie breaker.  And those are just the top teams they will be playing.  When you're .424 there are only 8 teams worse than you (plus Portland which is also .424), so even the Charlottes and Clippers and Torontos that they have to play are better than them.  In short, it's hasta la vista for the Knicks and Thibs.

Crazy thought.  Think Brad would trade Al Horford + TPE for Kemba this offseason?  $9M is less than the $14M minimum that Al would be paid.  That would make my head spin from the managerial gyrations.


Bob

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Kemba is done, I told all my Knicks friends, he is done, nothing left. This is not a good game for any player with bone on bone knee problems. He is a super nice guy, had a great career.

Bob,

Why do you have such crazy thoughts?  

Horford is part of our league-leading defense.  He can actually play basketball, on a court, against other players, with some level of success.

Kemba?  Not so much.

The love of that elusive third star is the root of all evil.  

Brad had to move him and it was costly but in the end the Celtics at least got a player that can actually play (AH)

The Knicks (management) are incredibly stupid. They saw what happened in Boston.

Thibs is a bad fit for that team. The drum beats are already starting to signal yet another need to make a coaching change.

Once the players click the channel on him it will be all over.

gyso wrote:Bob,

Why do you have such crazy thoughts?  

Horford is part of our league-leading defense.  He can actually play basketball, on a court, against other players, with some level of success.

Kemba?  Not so much.

The love of that elusive third star is the root of all evil.  

gyso,

Because Kemba's $9M is less than Al's $14.5M, and that's assuming we release him.  Then we pay $14+M for nothing.  If we don't waive him then he makes $26.5M.  The difference between $14.5M and $9M, which we get by trading him to NY and they waive him and pay him his $14.5M, is almost a mid-level exception player for a tax paying team.  And the difference between $26.5M and $9M is $17.5M, which can get you a real needle mover.  One of our TPEs is big enough to make that happen, can offset the pain of another team taking on all $26M of Horford's contract (might not need to offset it all, only the $14.5M, but it could).


Bob


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dboss wrote:Brad had to move him and it was costly but in the end the Celtics at least got a player that can actually play  (AH)

The Knicks (management) are incredibly stupid.  They saw what happened in Boston.

Thibs is a bad fit for that team.  The drum beats are already starting to signal yet another need to make a coaching change.  

Once the players click the channel on him it will be all over.

I dont think Thibs is a bad fit for that team as they went to the playoffs last year. I believe the problem is that Thibs’ style has a short shelf life and can only be taken in small doses anywhere he goes.
Thibs will do it his way or not at all. You know when owners acquire players and the coach doesn't play them and they’re losing, rightfully or not, its gonna be only a matter of time. Worse, he’s in NY. He best have his car checked out every time before he starts the ignition. Like I said, its only a matter of time.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Kemba is done, I told all my Knicks friends, he is done, nothing left. This is not a good game for any player with bone on bone knee problems. He is a super nice guy, had a great career.

Kemba will never come close to being the player he once was but I wouldn’t say he is completely done. He still serviceable and can give you some decent minutes. Is he worth 9 million? Maybe not.

bobheckler wrote:

gyso wrote:Bob,

Why do you have such crazy thoughts?  

Horford is part of our league-leading defense.  He can actually play basketball, on a court, against other players, with some level of success.

Kemba?  Not so much.

The love of that elusive third star is the root of all evil.  

gyso,

Because Kemba's $9M is less than Al's $14.5M, and that's assuming we release him.  Then we pay $14+M for nothing.  If we don't waive him then he makes $26.5M.  The difference between $14.5M and $9M, which we get by trading him to NY and they waive him and pay him his $14.5M, is almost a mid-level exception player for a tax paying team.  And the difference between $26.5M and $9M is $17.5M, which can get you a real needle mover.  One of our TPEs is big enough to make that happen, can offset the pain of another team taking on all $26M of Horford's contract (might not need to offset it all, only the $14.5M, but it could).


Bob


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Bob

You got it partially wrong among other things.

Al's contract is non guaranteed except for $14.5 M However, if the Sixers make it to the finals he gets a salary bump up and another one if they win.

2022 $14.5 million guaranteed, $19.5 million guaranteed if PHI makes Finals in 2020,
2021 or 2022, fully if PHI wins Finals ($26.5 M)

AH still has some trade value. Kemba is probably done at this point.

I do not envision any trade to get Kemba back.

I think you are all underestimating the value that Al has brought to this team, salary or not. He is a major cog in the wheel of our defense. I will not be surprised to see them try to renegotiate his contract. He is comfortable here and has proved his value. Every single player on this team has ad a rough patch. I was amazed at how well Al played last night Time will tell. But he has alot more value to this team than Kemba would ever bring. I view Kemba as an IT at this point, just trying to get himself on a team and having a good run to get a contract. He will never be a starter again. Sad, one of the truly good guys, but when the legs go on a little guy, their career is over

Ktron wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Kemba is done, I told all my Knicks friends, he is done, nothing left. This is not a good game for any player with bone on bone knee problems. He is a super nice guy, had a great career.

Kemba will never come close to being the player he once was but I wouldn’t say he is completely done. He still serviceable and can give you some decent minutes. Is he worth 9 million? Maybe not.

If you want a point that can give you 20 minutes every other game, good for 6 points and 3 assists with minimal defense, he’s your man!!!

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I think you are all underestimating the value that Al has brought to this team, salary or not. He is a major cog in the wheel of our defense.  I will not be surprised to see them try to renegotiate his contract. He is comfortable here and has proved his value.  Every single player on this team has ad a rough patch. I was amazed at how well Al played last night  Time will tell. But he has alot more value to this team than Kemba would ever bring.  I view Kemba as an IT at this point, just trying to get himself on a team and having a good run to get a contract.  He will never be a starter again.  Sad, one of the truly good guys, but when the legs go on a little guy, their career is over

During our recent hot streak Al has played really good smart fundamental basketball, his defense has been really good.

Just to be clear:

I am NOT saying Brad should trade Al for Kemba.  I like Kemba as a person and I know he's trying his best but his best rarely moves the needle anymore and Al provides value on several fronts as Rosalie pointed out.  I am, however, very aware of Brad's efforts to free up salary cap room for trades this summer and, as much as I know he liked Josh, that didn't stop Brad from trading him for someone he liked better.  He liked Kemba too, as I remember.  That wasn't even a speed bump on Kemba's Celtic offramp.  Ainge was called "Trader Danny" but I think he actually allowed his personal relationship with players to enter into his decision-making more than Brad.  Remember Avery Bradley?  Danny loved AB (as did many of us, including me) and it took having to move someone, fast, to make room for Gordon Hayward's contract to make Danny pull the trigger on trading AB.  I think Brad is far more reptilian in his perspective of player movement than Danny.  Danny knows hoop, he knows players.  Brad knows numbers, believes in them wholeheartedly, and numbers can be cold as ice.


Bob


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I totally agree with you about Danny (in his later years especially(. Frankly, I believe he knew Kemba had to go and was having a really hard time letting go. He did not want to be the one who traded him. After the flack he took over Perk, and even KG and Paul, another trade of someone he cared about just was too much for him. He knew there were things that had to be done that he did not want to do. So........he moved on. It is just that Kemba's story is so heart wrenching like IT, tha so many want some kind of a miracle that just is not going to happen

Any player will try to get on a team, to have a good run and get themselves a contract because that is what they do for a living.
May sound foreign to some but its not always about the money. Real athletes love to compete. Like IT, he just wants to hoop. Period.
That whole brinks truck narrative was blown way out of proportion.
And, just because an athlete wants to get paid the most they can possibly get doesn't diminish their love of the game (there are a few exceptions).
Any one person that works for a living wants a bag. Athletes are no different.
If Kemba wants to play and can still contribute then he should. I don't think its about the money with either.
We have zero rights to suggest someone sit because WE think they should.

Danny Ray had no problems moving I.T. Who he liked. Crowder the same etc.Danny may know players better than Brad but it if he hung on to anyone player its because he thought that they could help the team. I don't agree that it was personal at all with him. It was business with him just like it is with Brad. If anyone may have a hint of a soft spot its Brad not Danny.
Danny also had some encouragement and help from the top brass with moving on. Bless his heart…GMAB

Bob

I see where you are going with this.  

Use AH contract to acquire another player.  That would be one way to add a guy but we still have a rather significant TPE that could also be used to add quality depth to the team.  I do not see any scenario where Kemba Walker is part of any deals moving forward.

Brad has put this team in a competitive situation and still stayed below the tax line for this year.  That is a great accomplishment.

Moving forward the team will need to add more salary or move a guy or 2 in order to address team needs.  AH has one year remaining but the recent addition of Daniel Theis provides long term depth at the 5.  

Until I see DT paired with another center not named Kornet, I am not convinced that we should move on from AH.

The solution is in the hands of our billionaire owners.  Let Brad spend some money above the tax line.  

Rosalie made an interesting suggestion.  Maybe we get AH to resign for 2-3 years at a more favorable salary.

The more I watch our team progress the more I am starting to realize that we could be one player away this year from #18.  I think that we do not have enough depth to get there this season and Celtics fans will be lamenting over not having did enough to make that happen.

The Celtics have a championship level defense.  We have quality depth at center and point guard.  We have 2 of the best wing players in the NBA but we do not have quality consistent depth at 2/3.  That is the only thing that could prevent us from winning this year.  We could have used our key TPE to address the guard/wing deficit this year but the owners are the ones who prevented that from happening.