Re: POST GAME - PLAYOFF ROUND 2 - GAME 5 - MILWAUKEE BUCKS - HOME

by **bobc33** Thu May 12, 2022 10:19 am

gyso wrote:

This is simply unacceptable.

by **NYCelt** Thu May 12, 2022 10:49 am

gyso wrote:

This is why Marcus Smart is the captain of this team. He may not have the official title, but he is.

I don't believe Smart has made a misstatement all year. Back when people thought he was unjustly calling out Tatum and Brown, he turned out to be right, and helped foster the attitude that turned the season around.

True pros don't wallow in a loss. They're accountable, and they move on. We'll see how this team reacts, and what effort they bring in game 6.

by **Pumpsie Green** Thu May 12, 2022 12:12 pm

What I saw last night is proof (to me at least) that while Jason Tatum is a very very good basketball player he is not elite. He cannot carry a team the way some of the truly elite players in the league can-the Greek Freak, Curry, Embid etc.

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu May 12, 2022 1:05 pm

112288 wrote:Here is another gripe I had from last night, where was Theis? Only 11 minutes? We could have used him in the 3rd and early 4th Q. He would have given us defense, shot making and rebounding. Why White?

That being said and off my chest, let us get down to brass tacks!

First, this is an incomplete team. Our bench is too limited in many ways and so IME is limited as to who he can put on the floor in general, and in certain match-up situations.

Robert Williams is a gifted rebounder and defender, however he has many short comings. He is hurts the Celtics on offense as he cannot shoot the 3 ball or at least a shot from inside the arc. On defense, he also cannot physically stop big centers like the Greek or Embiid on Philly.

So we need to get a more physical center to at least come off the bench or a bigger power forward other then Grant Williams who plays at 6'6". Way under size for center or power forward. I think Grant can be moved to small forward and do spot duties at center or small forward against smaller teams or match-ups.

Also remember, Big Al is not getting younger. We need someone to give Al an extended life in the NBA by limiting his minutes come next year.

Pritchard is someone on the bench who can give you minutes off the bench but he has been forced to play more minutes as usual and is just not performing as he had during the season. His shot is not falling and he is a defensive liability at times.

Brad needs to lengthen the bench come the off - season to give IME 10 go to players off the bench in match-ups. We need a BIG at center or power forward, we need pure shooters, we need a vet point guard.

Brad needs to cut the dead wood during the summer and get legit veteran bench guys.

Tatum................Hummmm........... He is Mr. Hot and Cold especially from 3 point land. He is what he is, so you have to live or die with him its that simple. He also is not a good decision maker. When you get MIL in the penalty situation with 7 minutes left in the quarter, why are you shooting 3 pointers which you sucked on making all night? Why are you not pounding the paint and getting to the FT line?

We will see come Friday, but this is now ALL UP HILL!

112288

Agree with you 100% on Theis, he had it going and GWill couldn’t buy a bucket and got his shot blocked right at the rim. GWill’s numbers were putrid and it’s not like Theis is not a good back line defender.

by **112288** Thu May 12, 2022 1:10 pm

Pumpsie Green wrote:What I saw last night is proof (to me at least) that while Jason Tatum is a very very good basketball player he is not elite. He cannot carry a team the way some of the truly elite players in the league can-the Greek Freak, Curry, Embid etc.

Pumpsie, I cannot agree with you more. Deep down I feel the same way. There are so many fundamental things that Tatum just does not use in his shooting arsenal. One of the obvious is using the glass and angles to sink shots verses trying to use just the rim to sink a shot! Sam Joes was a master of the bank shot so is Marcus Smart. I cannot not tell you the number of missed shots Tatum has missed by not just banking it in from 6-12 feet verses trying to put it into the cylinder and having it roll or bounce out! If you know how to use the angles correctly the bank shot is quite easy, especially a little hook shot that cannot be guarded. Bird was also a master of that shot as well as Mc Hale.

He also does not have soft hands when trying for a layup and using the glass. He tends to miss many shots because his layup shot using the glass is too hard and it winds up bouncing it off the glass and not softly into the net.

112288

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu May 12, 2022 1:45 pm

gyso wrote:Speaking of "worst playoff losses"

What would our reaction be if we lost by 39 points?

This further pisses me off because none of the Western teams out there scare me, both GS and Phoenix would be easier for us than Milwaukee and we should have been up 3-1 and finished them off last night. Smart and Brown colliding and losing that defensive board was the biggest knuckle head play of the game and perhaps our franchise history. We can play Al and Theis together, as great as Ime has coached this team since January, he came up with a total brain fart in the 4th.

by **dbrown4** Thu May 12, 2022 2:31 pm

I've like the way this team has found a way to win. Now it's find a way to win a game and find a way to win this series. Two games left, but we have to win tomorrow night to force a G7.

Tomorrow will answer a lot of questions about our character and what the future will look like. Hate to put it all on one (or two) game(s), but moral victories aren't going to do here. I think we've got it. This is the next step up from G4. More pressure. Must win.

db

by **Ktron** Thu May 12, 2022 3:38 pm

Waaa waaa waaa There were a number of errors made in the 4th quarter not to mention we have a Center thats in street clothes half the time. No wonder we cant get a rebound. Thats my post game pout of the day.

But really folks, All of this whining sounds silly as h***.

I was 14 yrs old Playing on a summer recreation team, the Roxbury Celtics. We were playing the Roxbury Boys Club. George Lewis was our head coach and he summed up our loss in a playoff game with one sentence that I have never forgotten.

“Winners almost lose and losers almost win”

On to Milwaukee to win game 6!

by **112288** Thu May 12, 2022 3:40 pm

dbrown 4

IMME is handicapped by the lack of a strong & deep bench. Brad has to cut the remaining crap and add legit veterans who know what their roles and responsibilities who are not over the hill but contributors. We need a deep bench and in the following areas: tall & size center/power forward, shooter, PG.

We are at a point that we can go to the finals NOW and so we need to spend money in the right places which includes the bench #6-10.

It is a building process and Brad has the summer to do just that. If we have to get into the luxury tax so be it. Tatum and Brown want to win now, you have a coach which other players would like to play under IMME, so its now not 4 years from now!

112288

PS What I do not want to see is Cheap Owners who are not willing to win now. Look at the Red Sox. The owner and his lackey Bloom! He is a cheap Bastard who does not want to play-up for vital players like a starting pitcher and a lock down CLOSER! The team is missing a chance to win this year because of his cheapness. Owner is involved in buying so many professional sports teams that he has to have enough cash flow from the Red Sox to pay the debt on leveraging the purchase of those other teams!

by **prakash** Thu May 12, 2022 4:39 pm

Thought the day after: tough loss.

The Celts have not yet broken through the disappointment of almost being there where as the Bucks are the current champions. Rue as much as you want, what is needed is to keep composure and play.

Lets hope that they play well in game 6. Hopefully, the Bucks have a small let down. Unlikely though, they have tasted success. All I want is well fought out game and let the winner win.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Thu May 12, 2022 8:50 pm

I have stated this more than once, actually, even before last night’s game started. In my opinion, Robert Williams should have been available on the bench, even for a ten minute plus stint. Grant was in way over his head, He has played a couple of good games, but they have figured out how to push him out of the way and become non existent, Even if RW could have come in for short stints, it may have helped this team. Looking at him on the bench ticked me off so much.
If this kid cannot play when it counts , what the hell good is he. I love watching him, but how many games has he missed?????? This is not the way you build a winner. We may have to look elsewhere next season. I am getting off track here

That game last night brought me back to November when we were scratching our heads and wondering if we would have a team on the floor that could ever compete. Where is the heart and soul of these superstars. I have seen it from Al Horford and Marcus Smart. The others look like they are still 19 and trying to make the team.

Will they pull it off tomorrow? These words usually never leave my lips when it comes to rooting for my Celtics, but, I am not sure they have it in them. I have been disappointed before, but this series should be over and they should be waiting for Miami/Philly. I just dont know if that is possible this time.

by **worcester** Thu May 12, 2022 9:04 pm

Very difficult loss but I still love these guys.

by **worcester** Thu May 12, 2022 9:07 pm

Rob played 61 games this year. Out pf 91.

by **Ktron** Thu May 12, 2022 9:49 pm

Can’t disagree with the Rob situation. Love the kid but if he cant play half the time then something needs to be done.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Thu May 12, 2022 9:54 pm

Please, they absolutely killed us on rebounding, both offensive and defensive. Portis looked like Dennis Rodman out there. I thought i was going to jump thru the screen and grab them all and give them a good dope slap. It was like they were sleeping out there]

And you are right, why the heck did they not play Daniel Theis more. He was rebounding and scoring, active all over the floor. I give White and Theis the game ball, they worked their tails off when on the floor.

by **dbrown4** Fri May 13, 2022 5:57 am

Tonight is all about character. Who shows up when one's back is against the wall?

If we go down, all the credit needs to go to Coach Bud. You get what you get from Giannis. We've had just as equal players out vs. Chris Middleton over this series so that's a wash. The rest of MIL are support players. What Coach Bud will have skillfully done is opened back up our Pandora's Box of ghosts from the 1st half of the season. For 2 & 1/16th games, we were forced back into our old selves. That was just enough to lose 3 games out of 5. Nothing is changing that score.

If we put in a complete game tonight, we're coming back to Boston for G7. On paper, we're the better team. No question. Tonight is all about heart. How bad does this team want it? We've seen it in spurts. Can we see it two more times?

This may very well be the Finals with these two teams. It's been some great, slug it out, Dave Cowens bodies all over the court basketball. None of the other 3 remaining series even come close to the intensity in this one. But we're up against it. This is where champions are born and losers go home.

One thing for sure...it will unfold tonight. Hold onto your seats, everybody. It's going to be a bumpy ride!!

db

by **112288** Fri May 13, 2022 7:38 am

IT IS FRIDAY THE 13th!

LET'S SEE WHO GETS THE BAD LUCK TODAY!

112288

by **112288** Fri May 13, 2022 11:50 am

Celtics List Robert Williams As Questionable For Game 6
The Celtics may need Williams for a must-win Game 6

NESN by Jason Ounpraseuth

The Boston Celtics’ hopes for Game 6 could be brightened if they can face the Milwaukee Bucks at full strength.

On Thursday’s injury report, the Celtics listed center Robert Williams III as questionable. Williams has missed the last two games due to left knee soreness.

Sam Hauser is still listed as out due to a right shoulder instability episode.

The Bucks currently hold a 3-2 series lead after defeating the Celtics at TD Garden. Boston gave up 17 offensive rebounds in Game 5, and Williams’ presence can help solve the Celtics’ rebounding issues and strengthen their defense against Bucks star Giannis Antetokounmpo.

The series will now shift to Fiserv Forum in what is now a must-win game for the Celtics to avoid elimination in the NBA playoffs.

Celtics-Bucks Game 6 will be played in Milwaukee on Friday with tip off set for 7:30 p.m. ET.

112288

by **cowens/oldschool** Fri May 13, 2022 11:50 am

112288 wrote:
Pumpsie Green wrote:What I saw last night is proof (to me at least) that while Jason Tatum is a very very good basketball player he is not elite. He cannot carry a team the way some of the truly elite players in the league can-the Greek Freak, Curry, Embid etc.

Pumpsie, I cannot agree with you more. Deep down I feel the same way. There are so many fundamental things that Tatum just does not use in his shooting arsenal. One of the obvious is using the glass and angles to sink shots verses trying to use just the rim to sink a shot! Sam Joes was a master of the bank shot so is Marcus Smart. I cannot not tell you the number of missed shots Tatum has missed by not just banking it in from 6-12 feet verses trying to put it into the cylinder and having it roll or bounce out! If you know how to use the angles correctly the bank shot is quite easy, especially a little hook shot that cannot be guarded. Bird was also a master of that shot as well as Mc Hale.

He also does not have soft hands when trying for a layup and using the glass. He tends to miss many shots because his layup shot using the glass is too hard and it winds up bouncing it off the glass and not softly into the net.

112288

That all might be true and Jaylen may even be the better player, but I put this loss on Udoka mostly, not Tatum, for not playing Theis enough, when your already size challenged with no RWill. Theis had some good finishes off feeds at the basket that GWill can’t do. Jaylen for only taking 2 shots in 4th, your so talented and can get a great mid range shot off anytime; you have a history of being strong in the 4th, this is on Udoka too for freezing out his best player. Then last but not least Smart, on the baseline play, how do you not see Jaylen wide open for a dunk if you get him the ball, instead his man blocks your shot, your a damn point guard….react like one. Then on last play how do you not see Tatum wide open for a step in 3 with no defender on him, how can you dribble right into their best defender like that…??? Are you blind or just stupid and careless?

Finally RWill might be the next Bill Walton, less skilled, but always injured and that’s a shame, but life is cruel and no one is irreplaceable. We can’t waste the prime of 2 J’s with an injury prone player, just like we can’t waste money on a sharpshooter like Nesmith who can’t hit shots….we are in a must win and this team is talented enough to have put up banner 18, now were gonna see what this team is really made of. If we lose tonight, there will have to be key changes made on this roster IMHO. Bucks played hard, but we gave this game away, as a franchise I’ve never seen us do that, inexcusable in my book. That’s my rant for the day🥵

by **cowens/oldschool** Fri May 13, 2022 11:56 am

112288 wrote:Celtics List Robert Williams As Questionable For Game 6
The Celtics may need Williams for a must-win Game 6

NESN by Jason Ounpraseuth

The Boston Celtics’ hopes for Game 6 could be brightened if they can face the Milwaukee Bucks at full strength.

On Thursday’s injury report, the Celtics listed center Robert Williams III as questionable. Williams has missed the last two games due to left knee soreness.

Sam Hauser is still listed as out due to a right shoulder instability episode.

The Bucks currently hold a 3-2 series lead after defeating the Celtics at TD Garden. Boston gave up 17 offensive rebounds in Game 5, and Williams’ presence can help solve the Celtics’ rebounding issues and strengthen their defense against Bucks star Giannis Antetokounmpo.

The series will now shift to Fiserv Forum in what is now a must-win game for the Celtics to avoid elimination in the NBA playoffs.

Celtics-Bucks Game 6 will be played in Milwaukee on Friday with tip off set for 7:30 p.m. ET.

112288

So what else is new?

by **dboss** Fri May 13, 2022 1:02 pm

Just getting around to commenting on our very disappointing loss. After the game, I had a lengthy conversation over the phone with ktron.

Many of the points made under this thread were discussed.

To put this loss into perspective we should revisit what we already know about the game of basketball.

Executing the fundamentals enhances a team's ability to win.

The most glaring thing that popped off the page for me that I mentioned to ktron was the disparity on the offensive glass. They had 17 rebounds and we had a measly 5. Someone has already mentioned that stat.

It's impact on this game was that they got 92 FGA and we got 82. One of those FGA by them was the offensive rebound and put back from Portis that ultimately was the decisive play of the game.

It was shameful that not one of our guys could rebound the ball off of a missed free throw. You have a built in advantage on FT with inside position. We just could not secure the rebound.

This issue (rebounding) highlights the importance of Robert Williams. Al Horford has been special in this series but we need more then him to compete on the glass. Our secondary bigs, Grant and Daniel combined for a total of 3 rebounds. Neither player excels in that area.

The pace of the game once again slowed to a crawl along with our propensity to play ISO basketball. When the ball stops moving important shot makers like Jaylen end up with 2 FGA's in the 4th QTR.

Our golden child has elite basketball skills but that is not the same thing as being an elite player. Know this. He is not there yet.

I looked at this series as one that we could win if our sparse rotation was not further compromised by not having a top guy like Rob. If you cannot hold your own on the glass against a high quality physical team, your chance of winning decreases.

by **Ktron** Fri May 13, 2022 5:37 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:
112288 wrote:
Pumpsie Green wrote:What I saw last night is proof (to me at least) that while Jason Tatum is a very very good basketball player he is not elite. He cannot carry a team the way some of the truly elite players in the league can-the Greek Freak, Curry, Embid etc.

Pumpsie, I cannot agree with you more. Deep down I feel the same way. There are so many fundamental things that Tatum just does not use in his shooting arsenal. One of the obvious is using the glass and angles to sink shots verses trying to use just the rim to sink a shot! Sam Joes was a master of the bank shot so is Marcus Smart. I cannot not tell you the number of missed shots Tatum has missed by not just banking it in from 6-12 feet verses trying to put it into the cylinder and having it roll or bounce out! If you know how to use the angles correctly the bank shot is quite easy, especially a little hook shot that cannot be guarded. Bird was also a master of that shot as well as Mc Hale.

He also does not have soft hands when trying for a layup and using the glass. He tends to miss many shots because his layup shot using the glass is too hard and it winds up bouncing it off the glass and not softly into the net.

112288

That all might be true and Jaylen may even be the better player, but I put this loss on Udoka mostly, not Tatum, for not playing Theis enough, when your already size challenged with no RWill. Theis had some good finishes off feeds at the basket that GWill can’t do. Jaylen for only taking 2 shots in 4th, your so talented and can get a great mid range shot off anytime; you have a history of being strong in the 4th, this is on Udoka too for freezing out his best player. Then last but not least Smart, on the baseline play, how do you not see Jaylen wide open for a dunk if you get him the ball, instead his man blocks your shot, your a damn point guard….react like one. Then on last play how do you not see Tatum wide open for a step in 3 with no defender on him, how can you dribble right into their best defender like that…??? Are you blind or just stupid and careless?

Finally RWill might be the next Bill Walton, less skilled, but always injured and that’s a shame, but life is cruel and no one is irreplaceable. We can’t waste the prime of 2 J’s with an injury prone player, just like we can’t waste money on a sharpshooter like Nesmith who can’t hit shots….we are in a must win and this team is talented enough to have put up banner 18, now were gonna see what this team is really made of. If we lose tonight, there will have to be key changes made on this roster IMHO. Bucks played hard, but we gave this game away, as a franchise I’ve never seen us do that, inexcusable in my book. That’s my rant for the day🥵

Udoka again? Udoka didn't freeze out Jalen. If Jalen only took 2 shots it wasn’t the first time this has happened. Why would a coach freeze out one of his best players? Thats on (Mr. Big Star) Jalen and possibly Smart. Not the coach.
The last play where Smart got blocked going to the basket was because Jayson did not come to the top like the play was designed to do. Horford was supposed to go down and free Jason to come up top for the ball. It didn't happen. Smart saw that he had Matthew whats his name beat but did not see Jrue.
Udoka and the staff drew up the play. The players failed to execute it properly. Blame them.
Theis looked good on offense with his scoring the ball but he’s a huge liability on defense. He is limited. Just watch what the bigger players on the Bucks do when they see that Theis has switched onto them. They eat his ass up every time. Grant was not much better and thats all we had as Rob sat.
This team still has a chance to go to the ECF. This is the same team that most all said was going to have a bridge season and look where we are. We’re here because we have a great coach and some great players. That may or may not be be good enough to get there. We’ll see but please, its so easy to blame the head coach. Kind of dated too.

by **Ktron** Fri May 13, 2022 5:53 pm

dboss wrote:Just getting around to commenting on our very disappointing loss. After the game, I had a lengthy conversation over the phone with ktron.

Many of the points made under this thread were discussed.

To put this loss into perspective we should revisit what we already know about the game of basketball.

Executing the fundamentals enhances a team's ability to win.

The most glaring thing that popped off the page for me that I mentioned to ktron was the disparity on the offensive glass. They had 17 rebounds and we had a measly 5. Someone has already mentioned that stat.

It's impact on this game was that they got 92 FGA and we got 82. One of those FGA by them was the offensive rebound and put back from Portis that ultimately was the decisive play of the game.

It was shameful that not one of our guys could rebound the ball off of a missed free throw. You have a built in advantage on FT with inside position. We just could not secure the rebound.

This issue (rebounding) highlights the importance of Robert Williams. Al Horford has been special in this series but we need more then him to compete on the glass. Our secondary bigs, Grant and Daniel combined for a total of 3 rebounds. Neither player excels in that area.

The pace of the game once again slowed to a crawl along with our propensity to play ISO basketball. When the ball stops moving important shot makers like Jaylen end up with 2 FGA's in the 4th QTR.

Our golden child has elite basketball skills but that is not the same thing as being an elite player. Know this. He is not there yet.

I looked at this series as one that we could win if our sparse rotation was not further compromised by not having a top guy like Rob. If you cannot hold your own on the glass against a high quality physical team, your chance of winning decreases.

Our Golden Child is almost there but this ain’t horse shoes. You’re right he's not there yet and it may take a little more time. He’s made great strides but there is something that tells us that he still has a ways to go. Not far but not there-yet.
We talked about rebounding and yes we got killed on the boards. I must say after watching that free throw play over a half dozen times since Wednesday. I have come to the conclusion that us not getting the rebound was not really part of the overall lack of rebounding that factored in. I know. Sounds weird but when i reviewed it it was more a case of us getting that rebound and then losing it. Smart had it and Jalen bumped him and knocked it loose. I know, its still a rebound but that particular play was more of a lack of communication and awareness by the 2 players. As I pointed out and witnessed in review, we had that rebound and then lost it.
One other thing, If Jalen is not getting many looks in the 4th as what has happened many times before, some of that is on him. He seems to be aggressive when he wants to be. Its JT, JB, and Marcus. They all know who should have the ball in there hands at crunch time. They need to make sure that it happens. No head coach, not even Steve Nash is going to design something where your best players are not getting touches at the end. Someone asked the question would I be happier if we got beat like Golden State did the other night instead of the way we got beat on Wednesday. I told them. No I would not be happier but I sure would've been able to sleep better.

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