LeBron James, Red Sox co-owner, says he hates Celtics fans

If the above is the full exchange and that's LeBron's definition of Boston fans are racist as F#$^$%, and the only example he has is an "Eff LeBron" shirt, then LeBron needs a dictionary and some examples of racism.

It's spouting off in left field like that will continue to feed racism and it will never die. That's what he wants, though, by that particular discourse.

db

It wasn’t Boston fans that vandalized his LA home and spray painted racist
Graffiti.
Look, Lebron knows what racism is. The problem is that Boston has the perception of being racist. As I’ve stated before. I was born and raised in Boston and have lived in several cities across this USA. Its been my experience that Boston is NOT any more racist then anywhere else I’ve live. Fact is there are a more than few places that I’ve experienced worse.
DBrown, what Lebron is sprouting does not and will not feed racism. Systematic racism in this country feeds racism. Lebron has nothing to do with it and has no power over it.
What Lebron is guilty of is willfull ignorance. He’s bought into a false narrative and hadn’t taken the time to fully explore it. Thats fked up on his part. Some folks just need to shut up if they’re not going to take the time to research.

Perceptions are not facts.  More importantly, you cannot use one broad stroke to condem an entire fan base.  Are there racist fans at Celtics games?  Of course there are.  How about, LA, PHILLY, CHICAGO, CLEVELAND, MIAMI... There are no exemptions or exceptions.  Still, you cannot label an entire fan base  as being racist.

Good points, guys.  I'd forgotten about the spray paint. (Did they ever find out  and arrest whoever did that?)  It's like Boston has to explain itself over and over again.  Perception goes a long way, positive and negative with negative always far out distancing positive.

We, and I'm speaking for myself here until further confirmation, just don't like LeBron for one because he wasn't on our team to start with and two, because he's on the other team and he's really good and he usually beats us!  (BTW, nobody "hates" LeBron.  That's stupid and just as ignorant but certainly not racist) Celtic fans are usually not used to having one player dominate us year in and year out.  He's one of the few.  But I believe if you sat down with any Boston fan or anyone with deep knowledge of the NBA, you will see we all respect him and his game and deep down if asked, we'd have taken Cleveland's pick or done whatever was necessary to get it if we know what we know now.  He probably would have thrived even more in Boston and not had to jump around like he has, but in the end, he's brought 3 different franchises NBA Titles.  That's pretty amazing.  Boston would kill for 4 championship over the last 35 years instead of just one for 2008 and two near misses in 2010 and 2022.

There's not a one of us on this site that hasn't imagined what would Boston look like with Lebron in his prime, after the 7-8 years of screwing around in Cleveland dealing with unwilling management.  But that's all part of the NBA star maturation process unless your name was Bird or Magic.  They didn't have to wait years to win.  They came right in and took over.  

LeBron had to learn the typical NBA hard way.  He also came into the league right out of high school.  It takes a while to find you a$$ with both hands being that young.  No one gets a free lunch or free pass in the NBA.  Bird and Magic were special in that the league desperately needed what they had and delivered beyond anything imaginable, lest we wouldn't be having this discussion today because their would be no league.

The real question is on this is why won't racism go away.  And both sides to the answer have presented themselves in this interview as to why.  Ignorance on both sides.  Systemic racism on one side and race baiting on the other.  As long as Boston fans or any fans, as both dboss and Ktron point out, yell and spew racist garbage (in public mind you), those few individuals paint the whole "Boston" picture whether they mean to our not.  But like Ktron so astutely points out, if you buy into a certain narrative, especially when it's espoused by a heavily profiled player, and make a sweeping, generic statement, that adds just as much fuel to the fire.  Just as ignorant.  

And so you have the two cancers.  Systemic racism and race baiting.  You clear those two elements out and the walls and the sides will come down.  Then color won't matter, just like teammates in the NBA see each other.  Bill Russell said it best.  "Can he play basketball?"  

Be clear when I say elements, I mean the thought/action process, not the individual(s). Certainly no easy task as this discussion and fight have been going on for hundreds of years after the sole event responsible for starting it all have long since passed.

db

Board, as per my usual pre-emptive strike, I'm probably up to the fence and dangling my toe over both sides.  I tried to keep it on the level and objective.

I’m fully aware of the objectives and purpose of Sam’s Celtics Forum.
I’m also fully aware that politics and social issues etc. are topics that should be discussed elsewhere.
However, please allow me to respond to one point that DBrown elaborated on and finish with LeBron.
DBrown pointed out that systemic racism and race baiting are two cancers that once cleared the walls will come down.
First off, race baiting can only exist if there is racism. You cannot conflate the two issues.
Far too many folks call others who try to teach people and bring light to racism as race baiters.
These are the very same folks who are trying to do away with Critical Race Theory.
I’m not saying that this is the case with DBrown. I don’t think it is.
I believe that this forum is populated by people who are open minded and that at the risk of sounding trite- each one can teach one.
I’m sure we all agree that there can be no race baiting if there is no racism.
However, racism will continue to exist as long as its remains systemic.
Some of the residual effects are born out of lack of awareness. Bringing light to the issue and teaching the history behind racism is critical.
Let’s not be too quick to label a person as a race baiter. Sure there are some people who try to capitalize on an existing problem but I firmly believe that the greater majority of people who bring light to the problem are sincere and want whats best for everyone.

Now, before I get to LeBron let me point out that I once threw my NBA Guide at Wilt Chamberlain as he was walking out of the Boston Garden building. I threw it and ran my ass off. I did that because I hated the enemy. Wilt was Black and so am I. I did something that most fans would not have done. I believe I was an outlier. I was one of those idiot fans for doing that. There were 13,909 in the building. I just happened to be one of the few bad apple fan that was in attendance. Nothings changed. It still goes on,. There’s fandom and I believe that most fans just want their team to win. We hated Chamberlain and later Laimbeer was hated even more. Same beat.

Lebron- I believe Lebron cares about social issues and is not trying to create whats not there. As an athlete he is considered old but subtract the occupation and he is still relatively a young man. He too can continue to learn.

DBrown I am not impressed with LeBron winning titles with 3 different teams. I’d be way more impressed if he won them with the same team. Its much harder to do that so his hopping around waters down what he has accomplished.
I can never look at him in the same light as a Bird, Magic, Jordan or a Kobe.
Lebron is a great player. He’s one of the best we’ve ever seen. Thats even more a reason for him to try and win with one team. “Miami Manufactured” is what i refer to when we talk about the rings he won there.
His return to Cleveland was also manipulated. Lebron went back and forced the team to get rid of Wiggins and bring in Kevin Love. Kyrie was already there losing his ass off but LeBron knew that he had a good chance of winning with those 2 as teammates.
After getting beat down twice by GS, He finally wins one for “The Land”.
He followed that up with another beat down administered by GS which he followed up by bolting to LA.
LeBron Manipulated the Lakers into getting rid of most of the young talent and bringing in Anthony Davis. They win the ‘Bubblelicious’ title and now look at him and them.
Didn’t even make the Play-in. Let me repeat- Did.Not.Even.Make.The.Play-in!
I’m not impressed….

Excellent post Ktron, for what it’s worth, I am in full agreement with everything you said.

Thank u sir!

"Race baiting" usually consists of someone of color speaking a truth that white people don't want to hear. Lebron has done some good things in the communities where he resided, but he lost some of his humanitarian bona fides with me when he whined that people protesting an exhibition tour of Saudi Arabia were putting him and his millionaire cohort "in danger." As if the murdering crown prince would allow anything bad to happen to the regime's public relations collaborators. I haven't been to Boston since the mid-60s.A friend of mine had relatives in Charles Town, and we stopped by there after hiking the Appalachian trail The N word was a staple of the local dialect and they didn't much like long-haired white boys either. That was a long time ago, and I have no idea whether Boston fans are more racist than fans anywhere else. Neither does Lebron. Generalizations about categories of people are seldom appropriate

Years ago, Sam wrote a brief essay on LeBron, detailing how he (Sam) did not like LeBron for a variety of reasons.  I wish I had saved it.  Would it be possible for one of the mods to somehow go back and dig that post out of the arhives?  It was magnificent!

Unfortunately, one of the flaws of a democracy/democratic society that has been around as long as ours has is any kind of sustained national social change comes about at a painfully/painstakingly slow pace as can be seen on just this issue alone. Like running through quicksand.

True, Ktron, you can't have race baiting without racism. But advancing an end to racism will never move forward calling someone a racist anymore than someone being called a racial slur of any kind. No one wants to be called either. From the above article and implied, both tactics are designed/perceived/received/delivered to throw up the walls and shut down conversation and will never move things forward in and of themselves. Just don't expect to educate/change/alter/move forward anyone's attitude/thought process by calling them a racist or expect to change anyone's attitude/thought process calling someone a racial slur.

In fairness, if one is going to be careful labeling someone as a race baiter, then let's be just as careful to label someone as a racist. We'll probably find those two circles and the number of people included in it gets smaller and smaller. If one's lead-in as a race baiter is to call one a racist, the battle for removing racism is lost and the conversation is closed.

Ktron you said it best. The majority of people who bring light to the issue (from all sides) and truly want racism to die do so in a spirit of sincerity and want what is best for everyone. Yet a few bad apples spoil the bunch and further muddy the message and intent.

As for CRT, I haven't studied enough about it to have an opinion either way. I do know its origins have been around longer than Professor Peggy McIntosh's White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack article (circa 1989 I believe). While the Ivy League Jewish college kid's response who decided to do as the article asked and actually checked his white privilege (can't remember his name) quite diminished the intended impact of the original article, the white privilege tag still has legs today and but unfortunately now has the same effect(s) described above as being called a racist.

As far as LeBron goes, all on this site have seen my view change 180 degrees on him over the years. Early on, he wasn't much to see on a losing CLE team for 7-8 years. Then Boston dominated him a couple of seasons when it mattered. Then he started dominating Boston with regularity when it mattered. I went from "hate" to finally respecting him, which he deserves. He's had our number, though, like it or not. He's in a fraternity by himself with that unless anyone can come up with other who has not only individually dominated us but as part of the team as well. Wilt didn't. Statistically, yes. But as a team certainly no.

I caught onto Wilt as he was aging out. I do remember the prime time Network special they did on him in the early 70's about his house in LA circa 1973-74. For some reason I remember them showing the Butcher Block he had in his kitchen. That's all I remember about his huge house on the hill! I'll have to give you Laimbeer. He was and probably still is literally hated outside of Detroit. He was a total douche.

Nothing will change the fact that LeBron still has 4 titles over the same time span the Celtics have 1. Still would have liked to have had that pick. Maybe Lebron would have a different view of Boston that would have done anything to surround him with talent. We'll never know. Lebron just did it his way, not the way most of us on this site would like.

db