An extension for Celtics’ Grant Williams considered likely

https://sports.yahoo.com/extension-grant-williams-considered-likely-141648722.html



An extension for Celtics’ Grant Williams considered likely


Jonas Nader
Wed, October 12, 2022 at 7:16 AM·1 min read


According to Chris Forsberg of NBC Sports Boston, a contract extension for Grant Williams is considered “likely.”


Williams is heading into his fourth NBA season and is set to earn $4.3 million in 2022-23. If a contract extension is not reached, the Celtics could extend a qualifying offer of $6.2 million to make Williams a restricted free agent in the summer of 2023. The deadline for an extension is the start of the NBA season, but it sounds like both sides are motivated to get something done.

Forsberg believes that recent deals for Larry Nance Jr. and Maxi Kleber could help set the market price — Nance got $21.6 million over two years with the Pelicans and Kleber received $33 million over three years with Dallas. He adds that he thinks Grant should get something around $11 or 12 million, although I think he’s being pretty conservative.

Williams’ ability to play multiple positions is extremely valuable, and while we know what he brings on the defensive end, the fact that he has added a reliable 3-point shot will be huge for Boston. After shooting 25% from deep as a rookie, Williams improved to 37% and 41% over the last two seasons.


Bob
MY NOTE:  Anonymous GMs around the league seemed to feel that anything in the $11-$13M/year range was reasonable, $15M/year would be on the high end and might make the Celtic front office balk.  The Celtics could offer him that Qualifying Offer but everybody knows that some team will outbid that, so the Celtics would pay the money to keep him either way.  With an extension they're not in a bidding war.  I'm not surprised by this report.  Danny was the poker player, not Brad.  Furthermore, we all know how much Brad loved and trusted Grant when he was coaching so it's reasonable to assume he'll want to keep him now that his career is finally starting to blossom.  The Devil, as always, is in the details.  When will he be eligible to be traded?  I'm not saying they should or will, but that plays into any mid-season roster adjustments Brad might feel he has to make.

I thought Grant not going to Summer League 1+ years ago was a mistake because he was still a hardworking, but marginal, NBA rotation player.  He said he wanted to stay in Boston and work on his game there and I thought he was crazy to pass up the opportunity to get in some reps and show everybody what he's got.  Goes to show what I know...


.

The smart move is to sign him now.  There are no other bidders.  Wait until next summer and there could be one or two teams that could offer $18-20M.

Remember, the salary cap will increase each year, so what may seem to be an overpay now could turn out to be a bargain in the future.

The Celtics extended both Js, Smart and RWill when they first had the chance, I don't expect anything different here.

Bob

It seems to me if the numbers are reasonable they will look to resign him now.

With regard to him not playing in the SL the summer before last at the time I thought he was missing an opportunity however he did spend time in Vegas working out.  He came back with a more consistent shot.  I do not think he missed anything much by not participating.

gyso not to pick on you but your statement

The Celtics extended both Js, Smart and RWill when they first had the chance, I don't expect anything different here.

Is not totally accurate.  The Jay's and Rob did resign rookie extensions but Marcus did not.  If you recall they let him hit UFA and resigned him using their FA/Bird rights.

dboss wrote:Bob

It seems to me if the numbers are reasonable they will look to resign him now.

With regard to him not playing in the SL the summer before last at the time I thought he was missing an opportunity however he did spend time in Vegas working out.  He came back with a more consistent shot.  I do not think he missed anything much by not participating.

gyso not to pick on you but your staement

The Celtics extended both Js, Smart and RWill when they first had the chance, I don't expect anything different here.

Is not totally accurate.  The Jay's and Rob did resign rookie extensions but Marcus did not.  If you recall they let him hit UFA and resigned him using their FA/Bird rights.

about Smart.

I still think they should sign him. It'll all seem reasonable in the end.

Some rumors/reports are that there won't be an extension for Grant.


Bob


.

The Grant Williams Contract extension  hourly updates:
 An Extension is coming
 (update) An Extension is likely
 (update) An extension isn't as likely as we thought
 (update) Reports of a likely contract extension were maybe exagerated
 (update) Celtics believed to be ready to offer and extension
 (update) There have been no talks between Williams/ Celtics about an extension
 (update) Reports that contract extension reports may have been exagerated  might not have been true
(update) Celtics are deep in talk with Utah Jazz to trade Williams in exchange for a 2076 second round draft pick top 49 protected, a lock of Danny Trejo's hair and 2 Pringles chips- But Danny Ainge is trying to get it down to a single pringle and wont back down.
 (update) Its possible the Celtics might offer Williams 4 years/80 million before the season begins
(update) Both sides would like to work on an extension and are probably close to agreeing on an amount.
 (update) Danny Ainge has agreed to adding the second Pringles chip in the Williams trade but is asking for Marcus Smart and the Celtics 2025 first rounder to be tossed in as filler
 (update) Williams has no idea where talks about a contract extension stand
(update) Celtics and Williams have agreed in principle to an extension and it could be signed as early as last week
 (update) Stephan A. Smith says its possible some of the rumors about the Williams extension may or may not have actually been possibly right or wrong completely, for the most part.
 (update) Kim Kardashian says she doesn't remember if she's ever been in a relationship with Celtics Grant Williams but hopes he gets a max deal.
 (update) annynomous NBA GM says we might just have to wait and see if Grant Williams has his contract extended

Good one Matty!

That second Pringle is a bridge too far!!!

Matty wrote:The Grant Williams Contract extension  hourly updates:
 An Extension is coming
 (update) An Extension is likely
 (update) An extension isn't as likely as we thought
 (update) Reports of a likely contract extension were maybe exagerated
 (update) Celtics believed to be ready to offer and extension
 (update) There have been no talks between Williams/ Celtics about an extension
 (update) Reports that contract extension reports may have been exagerated  might not have been true
(update) Celtics are deep in talk with Utah Jazz to trade Williams in exchange for a 2076 second round draft pick top 49 protected, a lock of Danny Trejo's hair and 2 Pringles chips- But Danny Ainge is trying to get it down to a single pringle and wont back down.
 (update) Its possible the Celtics might offer Williams 4 years/80 million before the season begins
(update) Both sides would like to work on an extension and are probably close to agreeing on an amount.
 (update) Danny Ainge has agreed to adding the second Pringles chip in the Williams trade but is asking for Marcus Smart and the Celtics 2025 first rounder to be tossed in as filler
 (update) Williams has no idea where talks about a contract extension stand
(update) Celtics and Williams have agreed in principle to an extension and it could be signed as early as last week
 (update) Stephan A. Smith says its possible some of the rumors about the Williams extension may or may not have actually been possibly right or wrong completely, for the most part.
 (update) Kim Kardashian says she doesn't remember if she's ever been in a relationship with Celtics Grant Williams but hopes he gets a max deal.
 (update) annynomous NBA GM says we might just have to wait and see if Grant Williams has his contract extended

You're a Hoot, Matty. Too f'ing funny.


Bob


.

With 5 days left the chance that Grant gets an extension is 50/50 for everyone other than the Celtics decision makers and the Grant camp.

The Celtics WILL NOT be paying him $18-20 Million per year. If their offer is in the full MLE range they should go ahead and do the deal unless there are other priorities.

If Grant has confidence that this year will be a really good year for him he could hold off and test UFA. If his production is anything close to this past season (7.8 PPG, 3.6 rebounds and 1 assist) he ain't getting a big payday from anybody.

If I was the guy to make the decision my #1 concern and priority would be to resign AH at the end of the season. He is on an expiring contract.

Maybe it makes sense to hold off on the Grant extension now.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10052495-celtics-rumors-grant-williams-boston-at-impasse-over-new-contract-before-deadline

Brandon Clarke has signed a rookie extension for $55 million (4 year deal. That comes to $13.75 Million per year.

I think Grant is somewhere in this range.

Both players came out in the 2019 draft with Clarke going at #21 followed by Grant at #22.

Clarke averaged 10.4 PPG and 5.3 rebounds last year.

Grant averaged 7.8 PPG and 3.6 rebounds.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:On another note…a former Celtic is now on the Laker bench…Matt Ryan made the cut and, for now, has a job in LA

Glad to hear he made it!

If I were a player on the brink of signing an extension, I'd factor in the risk of sustaining a career-ending injury. Sign now and you have 4 years of a guaranteed high income. Play out this one year and you risk financial security, even without an injury if other players chew up your minutes. Think about Dennis Schroder's bad move.

worcester wrote:If I were a player on the brink of signing an extension, I'd factor in the risk of sustaining a career-ending injury. Sign now and you have 4 years of a guaranteed high income. Play out this one year and you risk financial security, even without an injury if other players chew up your minutes. Think about Dennis Schroder's bad move.

I think the Clarke signing sets the market for Grant although I think $13.75 million is still on the high side for a PF that cannot rebound worth a damn.  

If he scoffs at the Celtics offer he better hope that he has a really strong year.  It would have to be better than his prior season.  With added depth on this team he may actually take a step back especially once Rob returns.

Anyways, I hope he stays with us because he has carved out a nice niche for himself on this team.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Remember when Marcus did not take the first offer from Danny?  I think he ended up with a little bit less than what he wanted. Watch out Grant, be careful playing poker with Brad, he holds a lot of the cards here.  I do not believe Grant is a $15million dollar player just yet, but who knows????

Rosalie

Too many players overvalue themselves.

When Marcus was eligible for his rookie extension there was foolish numbers being thrown around even on this forum about how much money he could get. Some folks mentioned a salary in the $20+ mill per year range. He went into RFA and could not find any team that was going to pay him big money. He returned to the Celtics after signing a 4 year $51.9 million deal which averages out to just shy of $13 million per. We do not know what the Celtics originally offered him but it had to be close to what he signed for.

His more recent contract (4) years later and kicks in this season, reflects his value ($76.4 million)

dboss wrote:

worcester wrote:If I were a player on the brink of signing an extension, I'd factor in the risk of sustaining a career-ending injury. Sign now and you have 4 years of a guaranteed high income. Play out this one year and you risk financial security, even without an injury if other players chew up your minutes. Think about Dennis Schroder's bad move.

I think the Clarke signing sets the market for Grant although I think $13.75 million is still on the high side for a PF that cannot rebound worth a damn.  

If he scoffs at the Celtics offer he better hope that he has a really strong year.  It would have to be better than his prior season.  With added depth on this team he may actually take a step back especially once Rob returns.

Anyways, I hope he stays with us because he has carved out a nice niche for himself on this team.

Dboss, comparing Clark and Grant’s numbers is only one part of an evaluation. Prudence dictates that you have to take those numbers into account but you also have to look beyond the numbers. Like, what level of impact does Brandon Clark have on his team as opposed to Grant’s level of impact on the Celtics. Applying the numbers only and not measuring other factors can more often than not lead to miscalculation. We can’t only look at the quantitative and ignore the qualitative.
In this case, from what i have seen of Clark, I don't think Brandon has as much impact on his team then Grant with ours. Grant may not be the greatest rebounder but if you factor in his versatility, his ability to play more than one position and how he meshes with the rest of the team on the court we may see that he is worth more than what Brandon got. I think he ends up with more but I would not be surprised if we low ball him and he accepts.

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

worcester wrote:If I were a player on the brink of signing an extension, I'd factor in the risk of sustaining a career-ending injury. Sign now and you have 4 years of a guaranteed high income. Play out this one year and you risk financial security, even without an injury if other players chew up your minutes. Think about Dennis Schroder's bad move.

I think the Clarke signing sets the market for Grant although I think $13.75 million is still on the high side for a PF that cannot rebound worth a damn.  

If he scoffs at the Celtics offer he better hope that he has a really strong year.  It would have to be better than his prior season.  With added depth on this team he may actually take a step back especially once Rob returns.

Anyways, I hope he stays with us because he has carved out a nice niche for himself on this team.

Dboss, comparing Clark and Grant’s numbers is only one part of an evaluation. Prudence dictates that you have to take those numbers into account but you also have to look beyond the numbers. Like, what level of impact does Brandon Clark have on his team as opposed to Grant’s level of impact on the Celtics. Applying the numbers only and not measuring other factors can more often than not lead to miscalculation. We can’t only look at the quantitative and ignore the qualitative.
In this case, from what i have seen of Clark, I don't think Brandon has as much impact on his team then Grant with ours. Grant may not be the greatest rebounder but if you factor in his versatility, his ability to play more than one position and how he meshes with the rest of the team on the court we may see that he is worth more than what Brandon got. I think he ends up with more but I would not be surprised if we low ball him and he accepts.

Ktron no two player are exactly alike even if they play the same position (PF) and even if both have been in the league for 3 years and even if their draft positions are just 1 above the other.  But there are measurebles  to consider as it relates to how much each guy is worth.

One player (Clarke) is decidedly more athletic and has big hops.  The other player (G Will) has no hops.  One player has become a very reliable knock down shooter from deep (Grant) The other player hardly ever takes a 3 point shot.   One player shoots 64% from the field (Clarke) and the other shoots 47% Which player has the biggest impact on their respective teams on offense and on defense?  Hint...it is not Grant.

To find the answer to that question I think you have to look at their ratings on offense and defense.

What I found is that Clarke has an offensive rating of 113.2 and Grant is at 112.5.   Pretty close.  On defense Clarke is 105.7 and Grant is 108.8  Those numbers translate into a net rating for Clarke of 7.5 and 4.5 for Grant.

Those numbers measure their individual impact on the floor per 100 possessions.

Clarke has been a double digit scorer in each of his 3 years in the league.  His career averages are
10.9 PPG and 5.6 rebounds and 1.4 assist.

I see Clarke as a pretty good measuring stick as it relates to Grant.  

Last year Clarke only played 19.5 MPG while Grant logged 24.5 MPG.   Clarke is more productive than Grant at both ends of the floor in less time.  

At this point I would be surprised if we see a last minute deal although it could happen.  I think Grant's value is somewhere between $10.5 - 12 Million per.

Bob


.

The projected Salary Cap and Luxury Tax threshold is projected to increase next season.  However it appears the total increase amount for each will be around $12 million.

The Celtics are very likely to remain a tax paying team into the future.  They should get some level of relief next season if they can resign Al at a more friendly salary.  

I was blown away by the GSW situation.  Their estimated tax bill for 2023 is over $170 million.  Next season (the war criminal as Ktron has coined) has a player option for $27 million.  

Grant William will enter UFA after the season and him his agent will be looking for a new deal.  The Celtics just need to make him a qualifying offer to retain their bird rights.  Or depending on things they may go ahead and resign him and take him off the market.

The number of teams that will have Cap space next summer is heavily dependent on the extent to which they waive nonguaranteed deals

Here is a Hoopshype piece on that

https://hoopshype.com/lists/who-are-the-cap-space-teams-for-2023/

The Celtics may be able to get a quality guy by using their Tax Payer MLE (around $7 million for 2023-24)  Teams that are looking to land a big fish may provide Boston with an opportunity to pick up a guy on the cheap.

The Celtics decision not to resign Grant is related to maximizing their flexibility going into the 2023 FA period.   Rumor has it that Grant was looking for something in the $13-$17 million range per year.  If those numbers are accurate, I can only assume that Boston was offering something less than $13 mill per.

For the record, I put his value in the $10.5-$12million range.

Grant would have to experience a noticeable increase in both scoring and rebounding to get a better offer.  Grant is just not a high volume scorer.  If he tried to be that guy he would be competing on his team with multiple proven scorers for more shots.  His rebounding is not about his skill set.  It is about his ability.  

I think as Grant continues to expand his game off the bounce he could flirt with becoming a double digit scorer.  He is at 7.8 PPG.  2.2 PPG more gets him to 10.   I think he can do that and if he can become at least a 5 RPG power forward his productivity may help him get a better offer.

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

worcester wrote:If I were a player on the brink of signing an extension, I'd factor in the risk of sustaining a career-ending injury. Sign now and you have 4 years of a guaranteed high income. Play out this one year and you risk financial security, even without an injury if other players chew up your minutes. Think about Dennis Schroder's bad move.

I think the Clarke signing sets the market for Grant although I think $13.75 million is still on the high side for a PF that cannot rebound worth a damn.  

If he scoffs at the Celtics offer he better hope that he has a really strong year.  It would have to be better than his prior season.  With added depth on this team he may actually take a step back especially once Rob returns.

Anyways, I hope he stays with us because he has carved out a nice niche for himself on this team.

Dboss, comparing Clark and Grant’s numbers is only one part of an evaluation. Prudence dictates that you have to take those numbers into account but you also have to look beyond the numbers. Like, what level of impact does Brandon Clark have on his team as opposed to Grant’s level of impact on the Celtics. Applying the numbers only and not measuring other factors can more often than not lead to miscalculation. We can’t only look at the quantitative and ignore the qualitative.
In this case, from what i have seen of Clark, I don't think Brandon has as much impact on his team then Grant with ours. Grant may not be the greatest rebounder but if you factor in his versatility, his ability to play more than one position and how he meshes with the rest of the team on the court we may see that he is worth more than what Brandon got. I think he ends up with more but I would not be surprised if we low ball him and he accepts.

Ktron no two player are exactly alike even if they play the same position (PF) and even if both have been in the league for 3 years and even if their draft positions are just 1 above the other.  But there are measurebles  to consider as it relates to how much each guy is worth.

One player (Clarke) is decidedly more athletic and has big hops.  The other player (G Will) has no hops.  One player has become a very reliable knock down shooter from deep (Grant) The other player hardly ever takes a 3 point shot.   One player shoots 64% from the field (Clarke) and the other shoots 47% Which player has the biggest impact on their respective teams on offense and on defense?  Hint...it is not Grant.

To find the answer to that question I think you have to look at their ratings on offense and defense.

What I found is that Clarke has an offensive rating of 113.2 and Grant is at 112.5.   Pretty close.  On defense Clarke is 105.7 and Grant is 108.8  Those numbers translate into a net rating for Clarke of 7.5 and 4.5 for Grant.

Those numbers measure their individual impact on the floor per 100 possessions.

Clarke has been a double digit scorer in each of his 3 years in the league.  His career averages are
10.9 PPG and 5.6 rebounds and 1.4 assist.

I see Clarke as a pretty good measuring stick as it relates to Grant.  

Last year Clarke only played 19.5 MPG while Grant logged 24.5 MPG.   Clarke is more productive than Grant at both ends of the floor in less time.  

At this point I would be surprised if we see a last minute deal although it could happen.  I think Grant's value is somewhere between $10.5 - 12 Million per.

Dboss,
Your initial post on this was strictly based on numbers and thats what I responded to. In this post You expounded on my qualitative point than immediately resorted back to the quantitative.
Of course they are different players and that was my point. Would Brandon have the same impact on the C’s as he does on his current team? Would he have more or less impact on our team than Grant currently does? Would you trade Brandon for Grant straight up? If you would, thats fine. Not sure if I would. Ive seen more of Grant with his current teammates and not much of Clark with his current team and none as a Celtic.
its no secret that I look at numbers differently than you do. I don't discount them but there’s more intangibles that go into an evaluation than numbers. These ratings are with their current teammates so I don't put much weight on it.

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

worcester wrote:If I were a player on the brink of signing an extension, I'd factor in the risk of sustaining a career-ending injury. Sign now and you have 4 years of a guaranteed high income. Play out this one year and you risk financial security, even without an injury if other players chew up your minutes. Think about Dennis Schroder's bad move.

I think the Clarke signing sets the market for Grant although I think $13.75 million is still on the high side for a PF that cannot rebound worth a damn.  

If he scoffs at the Celtics offer he better hope that he has a really strong year.  It would have to be better than his prior season.  With added depth on this team he may actually take a step back especially once Rob returns.

Anyways, I hope he stays with us because he has carved out a nice niche for himself on this team.

Dboss, comparing Clark and Grant’s numbers is only one part of an evaluation. Prudence dictates that you have to take those numbers into account but you also have to look beyond the numbers. Like, what level of impact does Brandon Clark have on his team as opposed to Grant’s level of impact on the Celtics. Applying the numbers only and not measuring other factors can more often than not lead to miscalculation. We can’t only look at the quantitative and ignore the qualitative.
In this case, from what i have seen of Clark, I don't think Brandon has as much impact on his team then Grant with ours. Grant may not be the greatest rebounder but if you factor in his versatility, his ability to play more than one position and how he meshes with the rest of the team on the court we may see that he is worth more than what Brandon got. I think he ends up with more but I would not be surprised if we low ball him and he accepts.

Ktron no two player are exactly alike even if they play the same position (PF) and even if both have been in the league for 3 years and even if their draft positions are just 1 above the other.  But there are measurebles  to consider as it relates to how much each guy is worth.

One player (Clarke) is decidedly more athletic and has big hops.  The other player (G Will) has no hops.  One player has become a very reliable knock down shooter from deep (Grant) The other player hardly ever takes a 3 point shot.   One player shoots 64% from the field (Clarke) and the other shoots 47% Which player has the biggest impact on their respective teams on offense and on defense?  Hint...it is not Grant.

To find the answer to that question I think you have to look at their ratings on offense and defense.

What I found is that Clarke has an offensive rating of 113.2 and Grant is at 112.5.   Pretty close.  On defense Clarke is 105.7 and Grant is 108.8  Those numbers translate into a net rating for Clarke of 7.5 and 4.5 for Grant.

Those numbers measure their individual impact on the floor per 100 possessions.

Clarke has been a double digit scorer in each of his 3 years in the league.  His career averages are
10.9 PPG and 5.6 rebounds and 1.4 assist.

I see Clarke as a pretty good measuring stick as it relates to Grant.  

Last year Clarke only played 19.5 MPG while Grant logged 24.5 MPG.   Clarke is more productive than Grant at both ends of the floor in less time.  

At this point I would be surprised if we see a last minute deal although it could happen.  I think Grant's value is somewhere between $10.5 - 12 Million per.

Dboss,
Your initial post on this was strictly based on numbers and thats what I responded to. In this post You expounded on my qualitative point than immediately resorted back to the quantitative.
Of course they are different players and that was my point. Would Brandon have the same impact on the C’s as he does on his current team? Would he have more or less impact on our team than Grant currently does? Would you trade Brandon for Grant straight up? If you would, thats fine. Not sure if I would. Ive seen more of Grant with his current teammates and not much of Clark with his current team and none as a Celtic.
its no secret that I look at numbers differently than you do. I don't discount them but there’s more intangibles that go into an evaluation than numbers. These ratings are with their current teammates so I don't put much weight on it.

ktron

I would not trade Grant for Clarke straight up.  I do not know if Brandon's impact would be the same.  Guys have different strengths that can be transferrable from one team to another.  

I agree that teams are all different but they can also be quite similar.  Players can have different roles on different teams or very similar roles on different teams.  I fully understand intangibles.  I do not agree that they carry more weight then numbers as you do.   Numbers are provable while intangibles are more subjective.  An Intangible can be supported by numbers but when isolated as a singular  idea or thought, is nothing more than a perception.

The comments that I have made in this thread are related to Grant William and his extension that he did not get.  Money and how it impacts the Celtics flexibility is one reason why he did not get the extension, YET.  I introduced Clarke's situation for comparison purposes.

when all is said and done "I think as Grant continues to expand his game off the bounce he could flirt with becoming a double digit scorer.  He is at 7.8 PPG.  2.2 PPG more gets him to 10.   I think he can do that and if he can become at least a 5 RPG power forward his productivity may help him get a better offer."

Well, Grant is now a 15 PPG scorer for 2022-23, and Joe M has the highest career winning record of any NBA head coach ever at 100%!