POST GAME MINNY

yeah, what 112288 said. that's what i said too, on the Game On thread --
a W is a W is a W ... !!!!

beat and bob, with all respect, i though at least a couple of Luke's shots were outside a comfortable range for him. wouldn't a range similar to BB's comfort zone be a better fit for Luke too?
but thank God for his block-out effort on Love. as everyone has said, it is mystifying why not another soul on our beloved Celtics had a clue what to do about Love.

i'm gonna be on a plane when wednesday's game is on. i'll need to DVR and save it - it promises to be HUGE ! i fear we'll be missing KG big time, but maybe we'll make out with what we got. hey, we won last night ! - while they were playing "Livin' On A Prayer" in the Garden (i think it was right after Ray's three) !

Michael

Mike

Luke can shoot the three. He hit several in preseason and is comfortable doing it. As long as he gets regular minutes he'll be fine.

beat

In his rebounding style, Kevin Love resembles Larry Bird more than Dennis Rodman. Bird's rebounding was, understandably, not the most noticeable aspect of his game, but he was just as good as Rodman or Love on the boards.

Here's what an old timer, Moe Goldman, said back in the early '80s about Bird and rebounding: "The smartest ballplayer today, and he doesn't really have the physique for the game, is Larry Bird. He's the smartest player around today because he thinks all the time. He will get rebounds like nobody else. It's only because of the rebound position he puts himself in. You've got to watch him, the little things he does. And remember, he's not the tallest and he's not the fastest, but he's the greatest of them all. He has the sense to be able to be at the right place at the right time."

112288,

Tommy also added, "If you put your body on the guy, you don't have to look at the rebound because he'll lead you to it.' You're right. That was a clinic.

There's no question that the biggest guys on the court should be at least holding their own in the rebounding department. Personally, I believe Shaq and JON are tentative when it comes to mixing it up because (1) Shaq's afraid of fouling out in five minutes and (2) Jermaine's afraid of reinjuring himself.

Moreover, neither of those two guys is a gazelle running downcourt, and I think (especially on the offensive end), they have to cheat and leave early in order to be able to defend their positions.

I believe Doc has decided that he'll go with the O'Neils plus Davis at center while holding Semih out so as to (1) help him mend but, more important (2) have him in as good shape as possible when either O'Neil goes down. I'm betting that's Doc's strategy for nursing the situation along until Perk hopefully gets back.

A couple of years ago, how many of us would have believed we'd be looking forward to Perk's return when we had a tandem of Shaq and Jermaine manning the center position?

Sam

Sam, As always you hit it out of the park. Good summation.

112288

spike

One thing i remember about Bird is if he could not control the ball during a rebound attempt he would "tip" it to a teammate...i saw him do this hundreds of times and the teammate would get credit for a rebound. He would also do this on the offensive glass and it resulted in a lot of layups for the Celts and frustration for the guys in the other jersey.

I think Bird was every bit the rebounder Rodman was specially when it mattered most. But damn Rodman was good. How tall do you think rodman was for real 6'6"?

jeb

Rodman was taller than Barkley, taller than Jordan, too. He had huge tree trunk legs and BIG feet. He was a student of the game and had great anticipation of where the ball was going to be. He was strong enough that, like Love, once he got into position, he was hard to move. And he had that dogged determination that you had to admire, even if he played for Detroit.

As a rookie, Rodman got stuck guarding Bird in the playoffs, so he was tall enough for that. Naturally Bird, in that first playoff game with Rodman on him, ignored the rookie, ran up and down the court sinking one jumper after another and, after each one, yelled at Chuck Daly on the Detroit bench, "Who's covering me?" and "Why don't ya put someone on me?"

Rodman survived the trash talk and won more rings than Larry all told.

One thing: he looked taller in the wedding gown. Maybe it was the high heels.

rickdavisakaspike wrote:
jeb

Rodman was taller than Barkley, taller than Jordan, too. He had huge tree trunk legs and BIG feet. He was a student of the game and had great anticipation of where the ball was going to be. He was strong enough that, like Love, once he got into position, he was hard to move. And he had that dogged determination that you had to admire, even if he played for Detroit.

As a rookie, Rodman got stuck guarding Bird in the playoffs, so he was tall enough for that. Naturally Bird, in that first playoff game with Rodman on him, ignored the rookie, ran up and down the court sinking one jumper after another and, after each one, yelled at Chuck Daly on the Detroit bench, "Who's covering me?" and "Why don't ya put someone on me?"

Rodman survived the trash talk and won more rings than Larry all told.

One thing: he looked taller in the wedding gown. Maybe it was the high heels.

And this year he'll probably fall (unfairly) short again in the voting for the Hall Of Fame. Everyone stresses rebounds above virtually all else (Riley's famous quote of "No rebounds, no rings" comes to mind) yet the premier rebounder of the past 30 years or so, in a shockingly small body compared to his productiveness in that area, will most probably get a shockingly low amount of votes once again. And I'm not even mentioning his incredible defense which we all saw.

Same thing with relievers baseball. Above almost all else, everyone craves a closer who can consistently shut down the opposition in the late innings, yet only five of them - Wilhelm, Gossage, Sutter, Fingers and Eckersley (who pitched more than half his career as a starter) - are in the HOF. Mariano Rivera will join that list five years after he retires (probably at around age 48) and so will Trevor Hoffman, but the list at that position is a short one (maybe cuz they're short relievers...).

Same with pure rebounders in basketball. Though Rodman is one of the very few of those who was not much of a scorer. Kind of like Russell, although Russell did average 15 a game.

On the top 16 all-time rebounds per game list Rodman's the only one who probably won't get in the Hall. Dwight Howard at #12 is the only active one on that list and if he keeps putting up around 20 points a game like he's been doing for four years now he'll get in too.

steve3344 wrote:

rickdavisakaspike wrote:
jeb

Rodman was taller than Barkley, taller than Jordan, too. He had huge tree trunk legs and BIG feet. He was a student of the game and had great anticipation of where the ball was going to be. He was strong enough that, like Love, once he got into position, he was hard to move. And he had that dogged determination that you had to admire, even if he played for Detroit.

As a rookie, Rodman got stuck guarding Bird in the playoffs, so he was tall enough for that. Naturally Bird, in that first playoff game with Rodman on him, ignored the rookie, ran up and down the court sinking one jumper after another and, after each one, yelled at Chuck Daly on the Detroit bench, "Who's covering me?" and "Why don't ya put someone on me?"

Rodman survived the trash talk and won more rings than Larry all told.

One thing: he looked taller in the wedding gown. Maybe it was the high heels.

And this year he'll probably fall (unfairly) short again in the voting for the Hall Of Fame. Everyone stresses rebounds above virtually all else (Riley's famous quote of "No rebounds, no rings" comes to mind) yet the premier rebounder of the past 30 years or so, in a shockingly small body compared to his productiveness in that area, will most probably get a shockingly low amount of votes once again. And I'm not even mentioning his incredible defense which we all saw.

Same thing with relievers baseball. Above almost all else, everyone craves a closer who can consistently shut down the opposition in the late innings, yet only five of them - Wilhelm, Gossage, Sutter, Fingers and Eckersley (who pitched more than half his career as a starter) - are in the HOF. Mariano Rivera will join that list five years after he retires (probably at around age 48) and so will Trevor Hoffman, but the list at that position is a short one (maybe cuz they're short relievers...).

Same with pure rebounders in basketball. Though Rodman is one of the very few of those who was not much of a scorer. Kind of like Russell, although Russell did average 15 a game.

On the top 16 all-time rebounds per game list Rodman's the only one who probably won't get in the Hall. Dwight Howard at #12 is the only active one on that list and if he keeps putting up around 20 points a game like he's been doing for four years now he'll get in too.

steve,

Aside from his rebounding (which is a little bit like "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how'd you like the play?") he was also 2x DPOY and 7x NBA All-Defense First Team and has 5 rings.

Returning to his rebounding, he owns the record for most consecutive rebounding titles, with 7. Not Wilt Chamberlain, not Moses Malone. If that's not emblematic of consistent dominance I don't know what is.

If a player won the NBA scoring title 2x do you think they'd make the HOF? I bet they would, if their career wasn't abbreviated.

If a player won 7 consecutive assist titles, do you think they'd make the HOF, regardless of how many points they scored themselves? Hell yeah they would.

If the DPOY and NBA All-Defense Team mean anything you have to consider leaders of them for the HOF just like you would the winner of those other two non-award categories.

Regardless of what color his hair is or whether he looks good in lace and lipstick.

bob

.

If Dennis didn't affront the non-basketball sensibilities of so many sports writers, he would have been in long ago. Unfair to say the least. W

bobheckler wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

rickdavisakaspike wrote:
jeb

Rodman was taller than Barkley, taller than Jordan, too. He had huge tree trunk legs and BIG feet. He was a student of the game and had great anticipation of where the ball was going to be. He was strong enough that, like Love, once he got into position, he was hard to move. And he had that dogged determination that you had to admire, even if he played for Detroit.

As a rookie, Rodman got stuck guarding Bird in the playoffs, so he was tall enough for that. Naturally Bird, in that first playoff game with Rodman on him, ignored the rookie, ran up and down the court sinking one jumper after another and, after each one, yelled at Chuck Daly on the Detroit bench, "Who's covering me?" and "Why don't ya put someone on me?"

Rodman survived the trash talk and won more rings than Larry all told.

One thing: he looked taller in the wedding gown. Maybe it was the high heels.

And this year he'll probably fall (unfairly) short again in the voting for the Hall Of Fame. Everyone stresses rebounds above virtually all else (Riley's famous quote of "No rebounds, no rings" comes to mind) yet the premier rebounder of the past 30 years or so, in a shockingly small body compared to his productiveness in that area, will most probably get a shockingly low amount of votes once again. And I'm not even mentioning his incredible defense which we all saw.

Same thing with relievers baseball. Above almost all else, everyone craves a closer who can consistently shut down the opposition in the late innings, yet only five of them - Wilhelm, Gossage, Sutter, Fingers and Eckersley (who pitched more than half his career as a starter) - are in the HOF. Mariano Rivera will join that list five years after he retires (probably at around age 48) and so will Trevor Hoffman, but the list at that position is a short one (maybe cuz they're short relievers...).

Same with pure rebounders in basketball. Though Rodman is one of the very few of those who was not much of a scorer. Kind of like Russell, although Russell did average 15 a game.

On the top 16 all-time rebounds per game list Rodman's the only one who probably won't get in the Hall. Dwight Howard at #12 is the only active one on that list and if he keeps putting up around 20 points a game like he's been doing for four years now he'll get in too.

steve,

Aside from his rebounding (which is a little bit like "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how'd you like the play?") he was also 2x DPOY and 7x NBA All-Defense First Team and has 5 rings.

Returning to his rebounding, he owns the record for most consecutive rebounding titles, with 7. Not Wilt Chamberlain, not Moses Malone. If that's not emblematic of consistent dominance I don't know what is.

If a player won the NBA scoring title 2x do you think they'd make the HOF? I bet they would, if their career wasn't abbreviated.

If a player won 7 consecutive assist titles, do you think they'd make the HOF, regardless of how many points they scored themselves? Hell yeah they would.

If the DPOY and NBA All-Defense Team mean anything you have to consider leaders of them for the HOF just like you would the winner of those other two non-award categories.

Regardless of what color his hair is or whether he looks good in lace and lipstick.

bob

.

I think some of the writers don't vote for him just because they're old-school conservative guys and are bothered by all the piercings and his outrageous behavior (mostly done harmlessly and in fun except for that dustup between him and Carmen Electra which got them both briefly detained with all charges dropped). That should not be part of the consideration but probably is.

I asked this question on the other site: How in the world does someone get 24 rebounds and not commit ONE foul. Come on now, I know the NBA wants a
new glory boy, but there were times last night when I thought he could have knocked someone out and never got a call against him. Don't get me wrong, this kid is great, but, let's be a little realistic. Look at that takedown on Luke and Luke gets the foul! Am I the only one who feels this way??

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I asked this question on the other site: How in the world does someone get 24 rebounds and not commit ONE foul. Come on now, I know the NBA wants a
new glory boy, but there were times last night when I thought he could have knocked someone out and never got a call against him. Don't get me wrong, this kid is great, but, let's be a little realistic. Look at that takedown on Luke and Luke gets the foul! Am I the only one who feels this way??

That was most certainly the wrong call on that play.

Bill Russell shunned the Naismith Hall of Fame and knew exactly the value of awards like that. A couple of years ago he referred in an interview to one of the defining moments of his identity.

"My junior year in college, I had what I thought was the one of the best college seasons ever. We won 28 out of 29 games. We won the National Championship. I was the MVP at the Final Four. I was first team All American. I averaged over 20 points and over 20 rebounds, and I was the only guy in college blocking shots. So after the season was over, they had a Northern California banquet, and they picked another center as Player of the Year in Northern California. Well, that let me know that if I were to accept these as the final judges of my career I would die a bitter old man. So I made a conscious decision: "What I'll do is I will try my very best to win every game. So when my career is finished it will be a historical fact I won these games, these championships, and there's no one's opinion how good I am or how good other guys are or comparing things." And so as I chronicle my career playing basketball, I played organized basketball for 21 years and I was on 18 championship teams. So that's what my standard is: playing a team game and my team winning. I really applaud -- and adore really -- these great athletes, that play my game especially. "

To add to that , he felt that by winning championships and being a champion people could not create the "he's better the him game" because...............
you can never take away a championship from someones name.

112288

rickdavisakaspike wrote:
jeb

One thing: he looked taller in the wedding gown. Maybe it was the high heels.

I agree that Rodman belongs in the hall. The question is...Will he go in as a Piston or in the wedding gown?

I can't believe I'm sticking up for a Piston, but Dennis Rodman not being in the HOF is a joke. (He'll always be a Piston to me)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Dennis-Rodman-Hall-of-Fame-2011-Campaign/139764292729636

I'm willing to wager this is the last time this season no one has more rebounds in a game than Von Wafer.

Rick, Thanks for that great Russell quote. What a wise warrior he was and is...