Celtics Camp and Pre-season

Camp starts today, 12/9, so I thought I'd kick off a thread dedicated to "everything before the games start to count".

Here's something about our center (as in, singular not plural), Jermaine O'Neal:

The thought of retiring after 15 seasons crossed Jermaine O’Neal’s mind after a year in which knee surgery cost him 58 games and a fractured wrist nagged him during the playoffs. But he said he’s pain-free as the Celtics open camp today.

“I want to give myself the best chance to finish on my own terms,’’ O’Neal said. “Whether it’s this year or next year, I don’t want to leave basketball limping out of basketball. At the end of the day, we’re all men and we all look at ourselves every morning and you have to ask yourself, ‘Did I leave the way I wanted? Did I do everything I possibly could do to leave the way I want?’ And only you can answer that.’’

O’Neal called last season a “failing year,’’ and struggled to fit in (5.4 points per game). He is currently the only center on the roster, and his goal is to wash away last season’s shortcomings.

“I know [coach] Doc [Rivers] was in a tough position last year and I was almost no help on the offensive end last year,’’ O’Neal said. “And that’s what I want to do. I want to be able to dominate on the defensive end and give Doc an opportunity to, when Kevin [Garnett] gets tired in that low post, give him the opportunity to give it to me and help this team out.’’

O’Neal opted against having surgery on his fractured left wrist, which he played through during the postseason. The recovery from surgery, he said, would have taken six months, essentially ending his career.

“I’d have been done,’’ he said.

During the offseason he weighed spending more time with his family or concentrating more on his businesses. But he ultimately committed to working out.

He trained with Tim Grover in Chicago, Tracy McGrady in Houston, and a collection of NBA faces in Las Vegas.

“I believe that conditioning-wise, I can go a lot further,’’ O’Neal said. “We can’t control injuries and we can’t control things like that. But physically, when it comes down to pure strength, quads, legs, core, upper body, I’m a whole lot stronger.’’

There were back spasms, he said, but the knee that required surgery last January felt pain-free.

O’Neal is staring at a 66-game regular season, knowing he will need to be in shape to survive the year.

He can feel the end of his career approaching, but wants to reach the NBA Finals once before it does.

“A lot of us are looking at that window,’’ he said. “You want to enjoy that and you want the opportunity to try to win. I think that’s the only thing that’s bringing me back. I haven’t had the opportunity to play in that Finals game.”

After today's action, we have:

PG: Rondo / Dooling / Bradley

SG: Ray / RIP / E'Twaun

SF: Pierce / Green / Daniels

PF: KG / Bass / JJJ

C: JO'N / Wilcox / Aaron Gray

Camp invites: Gilbert Brown, Sweetney

(RIP and Gray are just place holders and/or wishfull thinking)

Stiemsma and Jamal Sampson were invited too.

Stupid question, but who's RIP?

bob

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bob,

Richard Hamilton: Waived by Pistons

Update: Hamilton was waived by the Pistons on Friday, the Detroit Free Press reports.

Recommendation: This comes as a surprise, mainly because Rip was bought out by the Pistons instead of the team using the amnesty clause. Hamilton has had his rough patches over the past couple seasons in Detroit, but he’s still a capable scorer in the NBA. Expect him to have plenty of suitors. While he doesn’t help much in other areas, Hamilton will be a solid source of points if he finds a job as a starting shooting guard on his new squad.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=rotowire-ichardamiltonaivedby

I guess I shouldn't have capitalized all three letters. Rip.

He was waived, not amnestied. He is an unrestricted free agent.

gyso

gyso wrote:bob,

Richard Hamilton: Waived by Pistons

Update: Hamilton was waived by the Pistons on Friday, the Detroit Free Press reports.

Recommendation: This comes as a surprise, mainly because Rip was bought out by the Pistons instead of the team using the amnesty clause. Hamilton has had his rough patches over the past couple seasons in Detroit, but he’s still a capable scorer in the NBA. Expect him to have plenty of suitors. While he doesn’t help much in other areas, Hamilton will be a solid source of points if he finds a job as a starting shooting guard on his new squad.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=rotowire-ichardamiltonaivedby

I guess I shouldn't have capitalized all three letters. Rip.

He was waived, not amnestied. He is an unrestricted free agent.

gyso

Ooooooohhhhh! Me likeeeee. I want Rip!!!

Can you imagine our 2s being Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton?!! We haven't used the $3M mini-exemption yet, and I'm sure Danny wants to use that for another big man, but Rip Hamilton!!!

I heard he might be Chicago bound, but I thought it was going to be a trade. He'd be a HUGE boost for the Bulls. Rip has Championship experience.

bob

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Today, 12/9, was media day at camp.

Nine players showed up. I guess that would be KG, RR, RA, PP, AB, Moore, Brown, JON, and ??? Would Dooling already be here? Q?

Doc is expecting JJJ, Bass and Green there tomorrow.

bob

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bob,

I read where Jamal Crawford is headed to the Bulls so does that mean the door is closed there for Rip?

gyso

gyso wrote:bob,

I read where Jamal Crawford is headed to the Bulls so does that mean the door is closed there for Rip?

gyso

gyso,

Let's hope so. It pains me to say this, but with the loss of Shannon Brown, there's a slot on the Lakers roster for a SG too.

C'mon Danny! Go get'em!

bob

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bobheckler wrote:Stiemsma and Jamal Sampson were invited too.

Stupid question, but who's RIP?

bob

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bob,

I just read this on CelticsBlog:

Celtics Sign Greg Stiemsma
BOSTON – The Boston Celtics today announced that they have signed free agent center Greg Stiemsma. Per team policy, terms of the deals were not disclosed. Stiemsma, a 6’11"" center, last played for the Sioux Fall Sky Force of the NBA Development League. He appeared in four games for the Sky Force averaging 9.0 points, 10.8 rebounds and 4.5 blocks per game. He was named the 2010 NBA Development League Defensive Player of the Year after he averaged 9.1 points, 7.3 rebounds and a league-leading 3.7 blocks per game for Sioux Falls.

Signed perhaps, but guaranteed?

gyso

Youtube Greg Stiemsma vs Blake Griffin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzCzZZFYqM8

OK, we've got enough guys to do this; crystal ball time.

Make your best guess at first and second unit on December 25.

The first unit should be easy enough, with the only apparent question mark at center (well, the center's knee in particular). Please do not include reindeer names on the second unit.

Not much room for creativity. You can pretty much see this squad coming IMHO;

1st
1 - Rondo
2 - Ray
3 - Pierce
4 - KG
5 - O'Neal*

2nd
1- Dooling
2- Daniels
3- Green
4- Bass
5- Johnson

Best pick to stick from the rest; Moore

Semi-Bold "Swami Says" prediction; JaJuan Johnson to be the starting 5 by February 1.

EDIT: *Unless O'Neal magically transforms into David West by tomorrow!

gyso wrote:

bobheckler wrote:Stiemsma and Jamal Sampson were invited too.

Stupid question, but who's RIP?

bob

.

bob,

I just read this on CelticsBlog:

Celtics Sign Greg Stiemsma
BOSTON – The Boston Celtics today announced that they have signed free agent center Greg Stiemsma. Per team policy, terms of the deals were not disclosed. Stiemsma, a 6’11"" center, last played for the Sioux Fall Sky Force of the NBA Development League. He appeared in four games for the Sky Force averaging 9.0 points, 10.8 rebounds and 4.5 blocks per game. He was named the 2010 NBA Development League Defensive Player of the Year after he averaged 9.1 points, 7.3 rebounds and a league-leading 3.7 blocks per game for Sioux Falls.

Signed perhaps, but guaranteed?

gyso

gyso,

A 260# defensive specialist at center is just fine with me. I just don't want him starting and, if we trade away JON for West, who do we have instead?

I do NOT want KG starting at 5. He'll be chopped meat by April.

bob

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NYCelt,

So you don't see Wilcox as a possible second-string center?

I tried to do what you ask, but I'm convinced that Danny's not through and will not go into the season with three or four high-quality PFs and no quality centers. So, the more I try to assign slots to all these guys, the more I keep laughing at myself in the mirror.

What I do expect is to see is a marginal-to-serious contender with strength in depth.

Sam

Sam,

I've got Wilcox on my "we'll see" list. To me he's like the old Dave Letterman routine, "is this anything?" I'm not sure he is. I also suspect that as the team is currently structured, a lighter, quicker, higher jumping center with good hands is more the key. Bass is the rebounding banger down low. To me that opens the door for Johnson over Wilcox. Based on what I've seen of Johnson the past few years I think he's NBA ready and that a front line of Johnson, Bass and Green would be quick and tough enough to offset being slightly undersized.

As for the rest of my bold predictions, you may be right. Trader Dan could revise those! Either way I agree with you; our depth is going to be good and I expect us to contend even if the roster stays as is. In many ways I'm good if we stand pat and West doesn't show. Too many questions surround his ACL; that injury generally takes at least a year.

Laughing at ones self in the mirror? I do that every morning and that same guy keeps coming back for more too!

I hope Aruba was nice. Our neighbors were there last week as well and had a great time.

Regards

I've never thought of Wilcox as a center. He's a power forward who can fill in at center on occasion. He's a decent all-around player, but he's always been something of an enigma. I thought he might break through and become a really good pro, but he's never been consistent enough or improved enough or something.

My guess is that he'd be good on the second unit, but there's a logjam there with Bass. Bass is better offensively, but other than that, they're pretty comparable.

As others have speculated, maybe the plan is to use guys like Bass and Wilcox at the 5, or maybe they're dominoes for another deal to get a legit 5. We shall see.

Outside

Outside wrote:I've never thought of Wilcox as a center. He's a power forward who can fill in at center on occasion. He's a decent all-around player, but he's always been something of an enigma. I thought he might break through and become a really good pro, but he's never been consistent enough or improved enough or something.

My guess is that he'd be good on the second unit, but there's a logjam there with Bass. Bass is better offensively, but other than that, they're pretty comparable.

As others have speculated, maybe the plan is to use guys like Bass and Wilcox at the 5, or maybe they're dominoes for another deal to get a legit 5. We shall see.

Outside

Outside,

With the dearth of true legit 5s in the league, I think the idea here might just be to throw waves of 4/5 at opponents.

bob

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Something I've been thinking about as we discuss the Celtics center situation...

If you really want to look at it, 4's and 5's have always been interchangeable. Many of what we consider "true" centers are or have been power forwards.

Several players we consider historically great centers were power forwards; Wes Unseld or Elvin Hayes for example. As for winning it all with a power forward sized center, the name Dave Cowens should ring a bell around here.

Undeniably there are and have been those who should rightly be called pure centers. Howard is perhaps today's best example. Even though this type of player does have size going for them, they're not impossible to defend by any means. One-on-one may present challenges, but good team defensive strategy still counts for something. We've all seen countless examples of rebounding technique and desire beating out height at both ends of the court.

At this point we have several players in camp who can play the pivot for extended minutes; O'Neal, Johnson, KG, Wilcox and Bass. We've even got two big guys who's names begin with S that I can't remember how to spell correctly at the moment that we can stick in there like tackling dummies to practice against during camp.

I think we're going to be more than OK as is.

I'll bet Jeb might have added something to this discussion about the size of the fight in the dog winning over the size of the dog in the fight.

Regards

Chris Forsberg's report on Sunday's Camp:

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4686916/quick-hits-from-celtics-practice-2


Also, here's a report from Washburn of the Globe. I love the last para. I didn't know that about Doc's practices and I like it a lot. Always something going on.

*The Celtics again were shorthanded as Paul Pierce (right heel) sat out practice while Rajon Rondo sprained his right ankle during the workout. Neither injury is considered serious.

*Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, JaJuan Johnson and E'Twaun Moore did not practice today because of NBA paperwork and the potential David West deal that did not work out. Celtics coach Doc Rivers moved practice to 2 p.m. Monday to allow the league to approve the Bass deal and allow Johnson and Moore to be cleared.

*The Bass-Glen Davis trade includes former Celtic Von Wafer, who is going to Orlando in a sign-and-trade, but he's in Europe so that's why the trade is being held up. Bass is in Walthan and has watched the last two practices.

*Rivers said newly acquired Chris Wilcox can bring energy and is getting used to the Celtics' practice style. Rivers said Wilcox got fatigued and thought the club took water breaks, but Rivers told him practice never stops and water is available but with no breaks.

bob

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*Rivers said newly acquired Chris Wilcox can bring energy and is getting used to the Celtics' practice style. Rivers said Wilcox got fatigued and thought the club took water breaks, but Rivers told him practice never stops and water is available but with no breaks.

Bob

Perhaps this is the answer to Bobc33 problems with his 3rd grade team!!

beat

No water is the discredited, old-style coaching way. Keeping athletes properly hydrated is the way it's done now. Doc obviously allows them to get water, but on the run between drills, not as a rest break, which is what Wilcox is used to. I'm sure the Celtic vets keep hydrated. All Wilcox has to do is follow their example.

Having said that, athletes can go a while without getting dehydrated. In youth sports, many parents and kids take it to the opposite extreme, bringing Gatorade to a practice that only includes about 45 minutes of actual activity when all they need is one water break during practice and water after practice. And most of them could do without the water break during practice except they usually don't drink enough water during the day and show up to practice half-dehydrated already.

I sweat a lot, and I learned especially when hiking to pre-hydrate. I'm sure a guy like KG, who sweats a lot, does the same before practice.

Outside

Can Wilcox get Gary Williams a job on Doc's Assistant Coaching Staff with the Celtics?

Doc has not been able to practice with a full squad, in part, because the league office hasn't processed the paperwork yet.

JJJ and Moore, can't practice because of that.
Bass can't practice, but that's because Von Wafer is still in Europe and hasn't reported for his physical in Orlando yet. C'mon Von!!

Rondo and PP are sitting out with assorted sorenesses.

So, after wasting 20% of the season on that foolishness, Mr. Potato Head's office says that you cannot announce a free agent signing until the first day of camp, 12/9, and then they take 3 days to process the paperwork.

The time for Dictator-for-Life Stern to go has long since come and gone. What we need here is an NBA Spring!

bob

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Seems the league is too worried about CP3 to take care of any other business!

beat

Ok, so here's the camp roster as of today, is

1- Rondo, Dooling, Bradley
2- Ray, Moore
2/3- Sasha, Brown
3- Pierce, Q
3/4- Green
4/5- KG, Bass, Wilcox, JJJ
5- JON, Stiemsma

Who'd I leave out?

I count 16. At least one is gone. If Moore can shoot like they say, it'll be Brown. He's undrafted, Moore has a guaranteed contract.

bob

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Boston Signs Three:

The Boston Celtics today announced that they have signed free agent forward/center Jamal Sampson, free agent guard/forward Gilbert Brown, and free agent forward Michael Sweetney. Per team policy, terms of the deals were not disclosed.

Sampson, a 6'11" center/forward, last played for the Texas Legends of the NBA Development League. He played in two contests for the Legends in the 2011-12 season averaging 14.0 points, 15.0 rebound and 1.5 blocks per game. Originally drafted by the Utah Jazz with the 47th overall pick in 2002, has appeared in 72 career NBA games split between Denver, Charlotte, Sacramento, the LA Lakers and the Milwaukee Bucks.

Brown, a 6'6" guard/forward, finished his five-year career at Pittsburgh with career averages if 8.1 points, 3.4 rebounds and 1.8 assists per game. He posted his best season last year when he averaged career-highs of 11.3 points, 4.4 rebounds and 2.7 assists per game.

Sweetney, a 6'8" forward, played for Cengrejeros de Santurce in Puerto Rico during the 2010-11 season where he averaged 15.1 points 9.1 rebounds and 1.6 assists in 36 games. Originally drafted by the New York Knicks with the ninth overall pick in the 2003 NBA Draft, has career averages of 6.5 points and 4.5 rebounds in 233 NBA games split between New York and Chicago.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/press_release/press121211-celtics-sign-three.html