Shorter Rotation

Thoughts?

I am not sure how this will work.

It will help the chemistry issues but it may also force doc to play the elders more minutes.

Dboss

9 or 10 player rotations are standard for most teams down the stretch...and Doc has said he will expand it should the need (injuries or foul trouble) arise.

There has been just too much inconsistency from Moore, Johnson, Quis and Steamer - to warrant then getting any real minutes going forward.

If the older players start to break down - or the team slips out of contention, I am sure Doc will re-evaluate the idea. But if the C's can tighten things up and get into the 6th slot in the East doing so...I am all for it.

Hi,
I don't think the shorter rotation is a good recipe. The reason for that is advanced age of the big 3 + the tight schedule.
I'd keep 10-11 players but there're a lot of contributing factors - hard to say.
Also, the trade deadline is 10 days away. So, if DA makes any moves it may change it.

AK

The upcoming road trip is brutal.

This team needs to stay healthy. Right now they appear to have found their chemistry. Would like to see more of ab and less kd.

Dboss

dboss

in regards to the road games and given we have not played particularly well might teams not be as focussed to play us as they might be otherwise?

Sort of like we used to be? Might we be the team that is looked on somewhat as a breather game? Might we sneak up and win some that we might otherwise not?

Just wondering is all.

Hard to believe we could do that, or that any coach would let his team think that way but dispite being told time and time again players have their own thoughts. And are they perhaps thinking a half effort is all we need to put in tonight to get a win. ( the night they play the C's)

beat

beat

Beat

I think the Celtics have played some stinkers...but I have not seen this team roll over once. Just look at the OKC game. They were getting lit up and made it a game down the stretch.

If anyone can look at a team with KG, Paul Pierce, Ray and Rondo and think it will be a "breather game" - they should hang up their clipboard and get out of coaching.

mrkleen

My thoughts are not really so much on the coaches as the players. They look at our record and see that we have struggled, have seen us struggle, and thus the thought we won't have to play hard to beat those guys. This dispite virtually every coach telling them otherwise.

Perhaps just maybe we'll catch a couple of them just not ready.

But this implies we will be! (ready) to take advantage of it.

beat

You know the story about the young bull and the old bull standing atop a hill looking down at some heifers. Well, I think of this Celtics team as the old bull. We may not run down to the playoffs, but we may just walk down and win the whole thing.

To no one in particular,

I tried listing my preferred rotation, along with my preferred number of minutes (in parentheses) for each player. I tend to think of a rotation in three clusters:

Bigs (C/PF): KG (28) + Wilcox (25) + Bass (28) = 81 (falls short by 15 min.)

Wings (SF/SG): Pierce (35) + Ray (35) + Pietrus (26) = 96 minutes

Point: Rondo (35) + Bradley (13) = 48 minutes

Based on the current roster configuration, this is the rotation I believe gives the Celtics the best chance to:

√ combine veteran savvy and youthful athleticism;

√ provide the most consistent offensive output and defensive efficiency;

√ maximize team chemistry.

In emergencies/injury situations/cases of foul trouble, guys like Pavlovic, JO, Daniels and Dooling could add veteran presence for short stints. (My first two among that group would be Sasha and Quis.)

Obviously, the problem is that my "optimal" rotation winds up being 15 minutes short at the big man position. I have not included JO as part of the rotation because I don't believe he can be both dependably healthy and a consistent contributor when he's in there; and his sporadic absences mess up the continuity something fierce. So I'm looking for Danny to get a solid big who either can split at least 15 MPG between the center and PF positions or can play enough solid minutes at one of those two positions (C or PF) to allow Wilcox to expend most of his minutes at the other position (PF or C).

Either Odom or Kaman would do nicely. Easy, right, Danny?

Sam

Shorter rotation? How short can we get? We need some tall guys in there.

Sam

There are teams out there coming up where Bass will be a defensive liability.

I think the Celtics will need a healthy Jon.

I think ab needs more than 13 minutes. I would like to see a shift or two where both him and Rondo in the game at the same time. Yes I know he is not a consistent jump short but I believe the defense an up tempo style may offset that.

Dboss

Beat...

can't think of any teams that take the might off against the Celtics.

This us going to be the hardest rd trip that I can remember.

Dboss

Dboss,

That's another reason why I'd like to see them get another big man. Even if he's no better defensively, he'll give them more fouls to expend.

But also, I believe they can compensate at least partially for defensive inadequacies by at least three measures: (1) shoot a higher percentage to make opponents keep taking the ball out of the basket; (2) tire the opponents out and keep them on their heels by more transition offensive forays; and (3) use the full-court press as an occasional change of pace to attack the rhythm of the opponents.

Sam

sam wrote:To no one in particular,

I tried listing my preferred rotation, along with my preferred number of minutes (in parentheses) for each player. I tend to think of a rotation in three clusters:

Bigs (C/PF): KG (28) + Wilcox (25) + Bass (28) = 81 (falls short by 15 min.)

Wings (SF/SG): Pierce (35) + Ray (35) + Pietrus (26) = 96 minutes

Point: Rondo (35) + Bradley (13) = 48 minutes

Based on the current roster configuration, this is the rotation I believe gives the Celtics the best chance to:

√ combine veteran savvy and youthful athleticism;

√ provide the most consistent offensive output and defensive efficiency;

√ maximize team chemistry.

In emergencies/injury situations/cases of foul trouble, guys like Pavlovic, JO, Daniels and Dooling could add veteran presence for short stints. (My first two among that group would be Sasha and Quis.)

Obviously, the problem is that my "optimal" rotation winds up being 15 minutes short at the big man position. I have not included JO as part of the rotation because I don't believe he can be both dependably healthy and a consistent contributor when he's in there; and his sporadic absences mess up the continuity something fierce. So I'm looking for Danny to get a solid big who either can split at least 15 MPG between the center and PF positions or can play enough solid minutes at one of those two positions (C or PF) to allow Wilcox to expend most of his minutes at the other position (PF or C).

Either Odom or Kaman would do nicely. Easy, right, Danny?

Sam

Sam,

My personal bet is that you've got the correct faces in the correct places. Further I would speculate that the answer to the big man part of the equation is to dole that 15 minutes out among the existing trio while going down the probable path of eliminating O'Neal from the picture entirely.

I'll make the fearless prediction that the fortunes of this team will ride on one player in particular this year. If that player can produce up to the level he's shown he can at times, we stand a chance of carrying some momentum into the late season and perhaps the playoffs. My opinion that this one player is key comes about because I think the roster and rotation as you have labeled above is going to be set for the rest of the season.

And that ever so important key player to our season will be...

Chris Wilcox.

We need rebounding, we need just a few more points in the paint and we need a slightly stronger change-of-pace in the middle when KG is out or against certain centers where KG's speed advantage gives way to bulk on the boards. We need a center who's shown he has the IQ to kick it back out of the paint toward the perimeter when his defender has the angle to shut his path to the hoop down. Is Wilcox the next Celtic star? No. But he can do those things in moderation and if he can find some element of consistency for the first time in his career he will give us what we need within our current reconfigured lineup. What's more I think he has to come up bigger for us because I don't think there is anyone else out there we can get on our needed terms.

Ah yes, my nice glowing crystal ball says no roster change*, and Chris Wilcox makes or breaks our year. Call it a different point of view.

For an encore, and to our Laker friends out there; you guys aren't making any changes either. Both of the game's iconic rivals are riding into their current edition's sunset on the horses that brought 'em this far.


Regards


*Possible Spoiler Alert/Crystal Ball Exception: Ray Allen to a few playoff contenders makes sense for a package featuring a draft pick, except that no team that could use him will pick high enough for us to do the deal.

NYCelt,

So I guess you're saying Wilcox is a sort of wild card in the "contention equation." Makes sense to me. Sometimes, the ease with which he makes certain moves shocks me. Especially his relentlessness in going to the hoop and finishing big rather than doing what I used to call the "Perkins flail." (Never powering the ball through the hoop and winding up with two freebies of which at least one was often missed.)

I really do think that Rondo, Bradley, Wilcox and Pietrus could comprise 4/5 of a special-purpose "transition unit" that is not labeled "starters" or "finishers." A more appropriate designation "debilitators." I'm not sure of a fifth component, although it could be Bass or a free agent "big" acquisition. (He wouldn't have to be a speed demon if he can rebound and outlet the ball.)

In my view, if Danny decides to go for it this season, he'll either stand pat or acquire through free agency or by combining draft picks and secondary players in a trade. If he trades any of the eight players I included in the rotation (see above), it will be a sign that he has firmly set his sights on the future.

Sam

sam wrote:NYCelt,

So I guess you're saying Wilcox is a sort of wild card in the "contention equation." Makes sense to me. Sometimes, the ease with which he makes certain moves shocks me. Especially his relentlessness in going to the hoop and finishing big rather than doing what I used to call the "Perkins flail." (Never powering the ball through the hoop and winding up with two freebies of which at least one was often missed.)

I really do think that Rondo, Bradley, Wilcox and Pietrus could comprise 4/5 of a special-purpose "transition unit" that is not labeled "starters" or "finishers." A more appropriate designation "debilitators." I'm not sure of a fifth component, although it could be Bass or a free agent "big" acquisition. (He wouldn't have to be a speed demon if he can rebound and outlet the ball.)

In my view, if Danny decides to go for it this season, he'll either stand pat or acquire through free agency or by combining draft picks and secondary players in a trade. If he trades any of the eight players I included in the rotation (see above), it will be a sign that he has firmly set his sights on the future.

Sam

Sam,

I wish I had said it that succinctly.

Would've saved a lot of time and space!

Regards

Last night GS was able to contribute with Wilcox strapped with fouls.

GS may not be the perfect missing big man but he is all that we have. If given the opportunity, he could be a difference maker as the Celts embark on an 8 game road trip.

Close games will wear this team out if the rotation does not expand.

Dboss

Dboss,

The bigger guys will usually be more likely to wear out more readily because (1) they're carrying around more weight and (2) they typically run more miles than the small guys, who run from perimeter to perimeter while the big guys run from lane to lane.

I think it's nice to have Stiemsma as an emergency backup for exactly circumstances like last night's. But I see him as potentially being more effective against lower seeds than against higher seeds. I believe the difference between a solid contender and a hopeful contender could be another more experienced big.

I realize the chances of its happening could be slim to none, but I do believe that could be the number one difference-maker.

Sam

Sam I am actually concerned that pp and ra are the ones who will lose their legs come playoff time like they did last year against the Heat in round 2

Dboss.

Near the end of the sixer game Tommy mentioned shortening the rotation and suggested that for an aged team that might not be a good idea.

This is my point exactly. This team will not be able to compete with so many older players playing extended minutes.

The looming road trip may be a disaster if doc l limits the minutes and/or shortens the rotation.

Dboss

With Wilcox out indefinitely, GS and JJJ will become part of the rotation.

Would still like to see Moore get some run...Celts need to get him ready to fill in for RA..


Dboss