Andrew Bogut available

according to ESPN, but with a catch. If you want Bogut, you have to take Stephen Jackson too.

Talk about a poison pill.

Looking at Bogut's numbers /36mpg, he is unimpressive and injury-prone.
Stephen Jackson is a thug. There is no doubt in my mind if he wasn't a basketball player he'd be doing life without parole. I cannot see him peacefully co-existing with Ray Allen.

Still, Bogut is a 28-year old 7-footer with skills. Their combined salaries almost make any deal impossible, not just with the Celtics but with any team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bogutan01.html

What do you think?

bob

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Though he isn't a particularly gifted athlete, Bogut is one of the better centers in the league. He's had some rotten luck with his injuries, particularly the dislocated elbow he suffered a couple of years ago, and anyone can crack an ankle at any time like he did this year, so I wouldn't consider him injury prone per se.

Jackson is an instant waiver. He does not fit on this team or in this organization. If Ainge is a wizard, maybe he could arrange a multi-team trade where Jackson goes elsewhere, but otherwise, any deal the Celtics would consider would be surrendering Bogut + Jackson worth of salary to get Bogut.

Assuming this is all about doing a deal before the trade deadline, I have mixed feelings. It would be tantamount to giving up completely on this season and the Big Three's last run, and I'm on record as believing that they deserve that run. However, Bogut could be a key piece in rebuilding, and the opportunity to get him may be now or never. I don't think the Celtics have a realistic chance to get Howard, and Bogut or Chris Kaman (who I consider more injury prone than Bogut) may be the best option available to pick up a center.

A lot depends of course on what they have to give up to get him, but assuming that is reasonable, I'm inclined to say that the C's should get Bogut if they can, despite what that means to the end of the Big Three. A good center is just too rare of a commodity to pass up.

Outside

If history has taught us anything, it has taught us that DA had made too many trades for injury prone big men.

Not a good trade.

Dboss

No thanks.

GSW traded Monta Ellis and Udoh for Bogut and Stephen Jackson.

Might be the worst trade I've ever heard of. The Celtics road trip just got a whole lot easier.

bob

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Is it April fools yet? WOW.

Monta Ellis is a PITA....but heck, isnt that the reason they shipped Jackson out years ago?

ESPN

The Golden State Warriors have agreed in principle to trade guard Monta Ellis and two players to the Milwaukee Bucks for center Andrew Bogut and Stephen Jackson, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The Warriors will send forward Ekpe Udoh and injured center Kwame Brown to the Bucks as part of a package for Bogut, one of the NBA’s most talented – but also often-injured – centers. The deal will be officially completed later on Tuesday night, one executive involved in the trade said.

112288

They're building for the future. They've been trying since the new CBA was signed to get a viable center, which is no surprise, because that is their single biggest need. They tried to get Dwight, signed DeAndre Jordan when that didn't happen but the Clippers matched it (Jordan was a restricted free agent), then they signed Kwame Brown, who besides being overpriced and not very good, promptly tore a pectoral muscle and is out for the year. They apparently kept trying for Dwight, but realizing that that wasn't happening no how no way, they decided to pull the trigger on this deal to get Bogut.

Having two small, skinny shooters who don't play much D (Curry and Ellis) isn't a great strategy, so it's also no surprise that they traded one. The hope is that Curry will get over his seemingly never-ending ankle issues and become a better overall player than Ellis, which is risky. Ellis has actually been dependable, while Curry has been fragile.

Jackson is not part of the Warriors future, he's just part of the price tag to get a decent center. Unfortunately, he's signed through next season at $10 million, so maybe they can trade him in the offseason. I don't know if they can buy him out or waive him. I'd just as soon not have him around to infect the team with his attitude.

Considering the injury histories of Bogut and Curry, this is a high risk, high reward trade for the Warriors. If they can stay relatively healthy, and if Bogut and Lee can play together like Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph, it could be a big step up for them.

Bob, whattya think?

Outside

And just for fun, the Bucks play the Warriors Friday. Should be interesting.

Outside wrote:They're building for the future. They've been trying since the new CBA was signed to get a viable center, which is no surprise, because that is their single biggest need. They tried to get Dwight, signed DeAndre Jordan when that didn't happen but the Clippers matched it (Jordan was a restricted free agent), then they signed Kwame Brown, who besides being overpriced and not very good, promptly tore a pectoral muscle and is out for the year. They apparently kept trying for Dwight, but realizing that that wasn't happening no how no way, they decided to pull the trigger on this deal to get Bogut.

Having two small, skinny shooters who don't play much D (Curry and Ellis) isn't a great strategy, so it's also no surprise that they traded one. The hope is that Curry will get over his seemingly never-ending ankle issues and become a better overall player than Ellis, which is risky. Ellis has actually been dependable, while Curry has been fragile.

Jackson is not part of the Warriors future, he's just part of the price tag to get a decent center. Unfortunately, he's signed through next season at $10 million, so maybe they can trade him in the offseason. I don't know if they can buy him out or waive him. I'd just as soon not have him around to infect the team with his attitude.

Considering the injury histories of Bogut and Curry, this is a high risk, high reward trade for the Warriors. If they can stay relatively healthy, and if Bogut and Lee can play together like Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph, it could be a big step up for them.

Bob, whattya think?

Outside

outside,

As someone who lives in NorCal and tries to support the local teams whenever they're not playing my teams (so, it would be Boston #1 and GSW #2) I'm not very happy with this trade. I have quite a few friends who have been life-long GSW fans. I have no idea how they can do it. I've lived out here since '92 and I still have to control my gag reflex.

Do we need a center? Absolutely (this "we", btw, could be used for when I'm wearing my Celtic fan as well as my GSW fan hat) but I'm not liking this.

Monta Ellis is a "small, skinny shooter"? 6'3"? He's very athletic, can shoot from everywhere (and does too much, for that matter). He will digress into playing ME-ball more often than I like. This is what happens to players coming right out of high school into the pros. Kobe's was the same for most of his career. It wasn't until Kobe was firmly in his '30s that he finally started to "get it". They don't have the years of strict coaching that develops the 4" muscle between their ears and teaches them the game beyond the high school level (which they were way too advanced for. Like a man playing with boys) and schoolyard pickup games. Ellis drives me crazy with his ME-ball, but he's got talent, no doubt about it, he's got a lot of talent.

Curry is more of a traditional NBA guard. More of a shooter in college than a true point guard, he's learning the position. He's more coachable than Ellis. Together, they were (I'm still stunned I'm using past tense here) a backcourt that could drop 45-50 on you. Working together, they were a bit of a problem because Curry plays point but Ellis, as a ME-baller, wasn't very good off-the-ball. If you put the ball in Ellis' hands, then Curry becomes the 2. He's a shooter, but Ellis should have been the designated gunner. Ellis prefers to shoot off the dribble, not off the pass. This will be a very interesting marriage, Monta Ellis and Brandon Jennings. Personally, I think it'll be Ellis-Curry redux because Ellis will still want the ball in his hands, but there's no doubt in my mind that strategically, from a GM's perspective, the Bucks have upgraded their roster talent at guard. How the Bucks use/keep/trade this new talent is "to be determined".

Ellis for Jackson? The word "thug" has been thrown around here a lot lately (did you know the term "thug" is of Asian Indian derivation?). Stephen Jackson is a thug, and a worse locker room cancer than Sebastian Telfair and Ricky Davis combined. When a friend told me an NBA player, he didn't know the name, got caught with a gun in the locker room (turned out to be Gilbert Arenas) I was expecting it to be Stephen Jackson. If he wasn't in the NBA he'd be in San Quentin. I don't see how Jackson gets traded until this time next season, as the trading deadline looms and teams are looking to dump salary to get ready for next year. Who would want him for $10M? Who would want him in their locker room for $1?

Trading Udoh was a mistake. This kid does a lot of things well, especially shotblocking. I guess the Bucks, even without a center, couldn't be enticed into taking Biedrins. What does that say?

Bogut and Lee? Hmm. Tough offensive halfcourt frontcourt, but not athletic. Both of them are players where you say "how the hell is he able to do that and not get stuffed?" Like Gasol and Z? Don't we wish...

This assumes, of course, that Bogut gets healthy and stays healthy. Based upon his history...?

bob

.

Isn't this the second time around with Golden State for Jackson?

MD!

MDCelticsFan wrote:Isn't this the second time around with Golden State for Jackson?

MD!

MD,

Yes it is and I was estatic when the door hit him in the ass the first time, too.

bob

.

Stephen Jackson is a walking technical foul.

I guess all he is good for is throwing against an opposing teams star player and hope they end up in a fight and both get ejected.

Bob, thanks for your observations. You of course make good points. We'll see how it works out.

Outside wrote:Bob, thanks for your observations. You of course make good points. We'll see how it works out.

outside,

As the resident full-time GSW fan, you have not shared your thoughts on this...

bob

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"Curiouser and curiouser", cried Alice!

The Warriors are leaning toward keeping Stephen Jackson through Thursday's deadline, according to sources.

Golden State acquired Jackson in a trade for Andrew Bogut on Tuesday and are listening to offers.

The Warriors could consider buying out Jackson, but that would leave the Warriors with just 10 active players.

Mark Jackson also indicated that he welcomes the opportunity to coach Stephen Jackson.

Orlando is believed to be interested in Jackson.
Via Rusty Simmons/San Francisco Chronicle

bob


.

bobheckler wrote:"Curiouser and curiouser", cried Alice!

The Warriors are leaning toward keeping Stephen Jackson through Thursday's deadline, according to sources.

Golden State acquired Jackson in a trade for Andrew Bogut on Tuesday and are listening to offers.

The Warriors could consider buying out Jackson, but that would leave the Warriors with just 10 active players.

Mark Jackson also indicated that he welcomes the opportunity to coach Stephen Jackson.

Orlando is believed to be interested in Jackson.
Via Rusty Simmons/San Francisco Chronicle

bob


.

Oh please, oh please, oh please, this is the one rumor I want to believe in.

bobheckler wrote:

Outside wrote:Bob, thanks for your observations. You of course make good points. We'll see how it works out.

outside,

As the resident full-time GSW fan, you have not shared your thoughts on this...

bob

.

Uh, I thought I did a few posts back up the thread. But here goes my take on it today.

More than anything, the Warriors need a center and have for years (decades?). Given the options available, I think Bogut is about as good as they were capable of getting, short of drafting one. He's been injury plagued, but some of that has been rotten luck, particularly his gruesome elbow/wrist injury a couple of years ago. But how many durable decent centers are out there? Dwight, Marc Gasol, Marcin Gortat, and... and... um, DeAndre Jordan? None of those guys are going anywhere. So it makes sense to me to roll the dice on Bogut, who when healthy can be very productive. What's the worst that could happen -- he doesn't work out and they spend years mired in mediocrity? Otherwise known as the status quo? It's no surprise that the Warriors have made numerous ongoing attempts to acquire a good center this year, because it could make a huge difference for them.

They were not going to be competitive with two smurfs in the backcourt. I don't care that Milwaukee chose to go with the two-smurf option; good luck to them.

Ekpe Udoh has a very good potential upside. I wish they had been able to keep him. But you can't get something for nothing, otherwise known as Andris Biedrins.

Of the two smurfs, Curry is younger, seems to have a good attitude, and has a nice skillset, but so far, he's been the fragile one. Monta was apparently growing disenchanted and wanted a change of scenery, and trading Curry and winding up with an unhappy Ellis could be just as big a risk. Monta can be very good, but he's always had that dark side that could make him a cancer if he doesn't like his situation. Curry seems to me like he has a great attitude and is willing to be a team guy. But I worry about his ankles. A lot. More than I worry about Bogut's health.

My reference to Bogut and Lee working together like Gasol and Z-Bo in Memphis (or the other Gasol and Bynum in LA) is the sunniest of hopes. Logically, I don't think they're a good fit. They're both big bodies who could turn the Warriors into a rebounding powerhouse, but neither is particularly athletic, and both seem to occupy the same space on offense. Lee has some range, but turning him into an outside shooter isn't the way to go. Bogut's not bad defensively, but that's never been Lee's strength. So if it doesn't work out, trade Lee and get a more athletic power forward. Or trade them both tomorrow for Dwight. But assuming they keep both Lee and Bogut, it's worth a season to see if it works.

This is the Warriors, where just making the playoffs is a step up. The new ownership is in it for the long haul and recognizes that you can't get to the ultimate goal in one nice, neat move with a bow on it. It's a process over time. Getting a good center is the most important step. It's a risky move, but even after thinking about it for a day, I still like it.

Outside

Outside wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

Outside wrote:Bob, thanks for your observations. You of course make good points. We'll see how it works out.

outside,

As the resident full-time GSW fan, you have not shared your thoughts on this...

bob

.

Uh, I thought I did a few posts back up the thread. But here goes my take on it today.

More than anything, the Warriors need a center and have for years (decades?). Given the options available, I think Bogut is about as good as they were capable of getting, short of drafting one. He's been injury plagued, but some of that has been rotten luck, particularly his gruesome elbow/wrist injury a couple of years ago. But how many durable decent centers are out there? Dwight, Marc Gasol, Marcin Gortat, and... and... um, DeAndre Jordan? None of those guys are going anywhere. So it makes sense to me to roll the dice on Bogut, who when healthy can be very productive. What's the worst that could happen -- he doesn't work out and they spend years mired in mediocrity? Otherwise known as the status quo? It's no surprise that the Warriors have made numerous ongoing attempts to acquire a good center this year, because it could make a huge difference for them.

They were not going to be competitive with two smurfs in the backcourt. I don't care that Milwaukee chose to go with the two-smurf option; good luck to them.

Ekpe Udoh has a very good potential upside. I wish they had been able to keep him. But you can't get something for nothing, otherwise known as Andris Biedrins.

Of the two smurfs, Curry is younger, seems to have a good attitude, and has a nice skillset, but so far, he's been the fragile one. Monta was apparently growing disenchanted and wanted a change of scenery, and trading Curry and winding up with an unhappy Ellis could be just as big a risk. Monta can be very good, but he's always had that dark side that could make him a cancer if he doesn't like his situation. Curry seems to me like he has a great attitude and is willing to be a team guy. But I worry about his ankles. A lot. More than I worry about Bogut's health.

My reference to Bogut and Lee working together like Gasol and Z-Bo in Memphis (or the other Gasol and Bynum in LA) is the sunniest of hopes. Logically, I don't think they're a good fit. They're both big bodies who could turn the Warriors into a rebounding powerhouse, but neither is particularly athletic, and both seem to occupy the same space on offense. Lee has some range, but turning him into an outside shooter isn't the way to go. Bogut's not bad defensively, but that's never been Lee's strength. So if it doesn't work out, trade Lee and get a more athletic power forward. Or trade them both tomorrow for Dwight. But assuming they keep both Lee and Bogut, it's worth a season to see if it works.

This is the Warriors, where just making the playoffs is a step up. The new ownership is in it for the long haul and recognizes that you can't get to the ultimate goal in one nice, neat move with a bow on it. It's a process over time. Getting a good center is the most important step. It's a risky move, but even after thinking about it for a day, I still like it.

Outside

outside,

I read your opinion about searching for a center and Gasol/Z etc, I responded to it directly in my post. What I was asking for from you was a thumbs up or thumbs down. After a day of mulling it over, it looks like at least one thumb up from you. Sorry I wasn't more specific in my request, I might have saved you a lot of writing, but I did enjoy reading your next day, second take on it as well. Nothing like letting something marinate for a while for the flavors to really reveal themselves.

Let's hope you're prescient. I'd love to have a competitive local team, especially with the Lakers coming off their peak.

bob

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steve3344 wrote:Antoine Walker is available:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/antoine-walker-d-league-comeback-isn-t-going-201007150.html

And he promises to cut down on the wiggles.

steve,

He's so out of shape it's not the wiggles we should worry about, it's the jiggles...

bob

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