POST GAME LA LAKERS

Celtics played with courage , unfortunately without another big (Wilcox) we just could not control the paint nor the boards in crunch time.

I was a little miffed at the play selection with about 2:30 left in the 4th quarter. They had the Lakers in the penalty situation and they had the lead. The Celtics never drove the paint to at least settle for some points from the strip. We settled for off balance jump shots instead.

Danny and Team Management need to be honest with Celtic fans. They need to get a big to replace Wilcox. If they don't it will be a one and done series for the Celtics.

Next Game Tomorrow - LA Clippers 10:30pm ESPN

Post Game Recap WEEI 850 AM


FAST BREAK: LAKERS HOLD ON TO BEAT CELTICS IN ANOTHER CLASSIC
By Paul Flannery

It took a half for the Celtics and Lakers game to truly start, but when it finally did we were treated to yet another classic in the tradition of these two teams. In what might have been the final meeting between the Celtics and Lakers as we know them, the Lakers held on for a 97-94 win.

The second half was one to savor as they traded baskets and leads. The Celtics were up by five points with 2:41 left, but that was when Kobe Bryant and Andrew Bynum went to work. Bryant made two shots and got off a pass to Bynum at the rim for twisting layup.

The Celtics had a chance to take the lead, but Brandon Bass missed an open jump shot and Bynum muscled home a shot on the other end. On the final possession, a Lakers switch disrupted the final play and left Paul Pierce to miss a long, forced 3. Rajon Rondo got the back tap, but his 3-pointer was short.

WHAT WENT WRONG

Who set the alarm clock? After six minutes, the Lakers had a slim 11-9 lead. Six minutes later, they were up 24-14 and the numbers were hideous. The Celtics shot 6-for-24 in the first quarter, a number that looked even worse when you consider that Kevin Garnett was 3-for-3. (That’s 3-for-21 for the rest of the team if you didn’t feel like doing the math). The only thing that kept the Celtics in the game early were eight first quarter turnovers.

You call that World Peace? Things got hot in the third quarter when Metta World Peace and Pierce tangled under the basket. Garnett intervened, shoves were exchanged and the intensity level finally reached Celtics-Laker levels. The mild skirmish also woke up Peace who scored 11 third quarter points.

Not a happy homecoming: Pierce missed nine of his first 10 shots and never really got into a flow. The Celtics were able to overcome as all five starters scored in double figures, but World Peace gave Pierce all he could handle on the defensive end.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

Second quarter reversal: Everything the Celtics did wrong in the first quarter they did right in the second. They worked their offense through Paul Pierce on the post, which led to some easy baskets and opened the floor. Greg Stiemsma and Avery Bradley provided a lift off the bench and the C’s hit the defensive glass, holding the Lakers to just one offensive rebound.

Rondo took advantage of the don’t guard Rondo defense: Like the rest of his teammates, Rondo started slowly making just two of his first even shots. He picked it up a bit in the second and continued through the second half making six of his next seven shots. Rondo finished with 24 points and 10 assists, and had one of his best games against the Lakers.

Brandon Bass steps up: Tasked with guarding Gasol for most of the afternoon, Bass held the 7-footer in check, allowing just 13 points on 11 shots. He dropped 15 on the other end and shot 7-for-12. His missed jumper aside, Bass has a strong game.

Greg Stiemsma too: The Celtics received some troubling news when they found out that forward Chris Wilcox is out indefinitely while he undergoes heart tests. Wilcox’s absence gave Stiemsma an opportunity to play and he made the most of it, recording blocks on both Gasol and Bynum. The Celtics still need another big man, but the 26-year-old rookie was able to hold the fort against the biggest frontline in the league.

#1 - Lakers are the biggest bunch of PUSSY CRY BABIES in the NBA.

Ron Artest runs around the court like an uncaged animal, throwing elbows - running through picks, tackling people and the F*^KING Refs let him get away with it. Absolute DISGRACE.

Celtics were short handed, not long enough to compete on the boards - and Pierce had an off game, no one off the bench did anything - and the refs gave the Lakers a 26 to 12 FT advantage...and were STILL in the game till the end.

They showed a lot of heart and if they go 0-8 this trip, but play hard and give it their all - we could not ask for more.

Artest is a thug. I would not be too surprised if he is on a work release program!

Yes the Celtics played with heart and did not back down. Would have liked to see Bradley play a little more, he always brings energy.

Tomorrow should also be a good game.

112288

Bradley generally looked lost IMO. Blake blew by him a few times...and that should NOT happen.

I have a feeling I will be losing a lot of sleep this week....should be some great games. What a grueling schedule.

Ya 10:30pm tomorrow and 10pm on Wednesday. I'll be dragging come Friday for sure. The guy we can get probably for cheap and who can plug right in is Semih Erden from Cleveland. I was sorry to see Danny Trade a guy with size and some talent.

112288

I can't stand Artest, but I thought he did what he knew he could get away with. He obviously was a major factor in Pierce's inability to score more fluidly. And his three threes in the third quarter were back breakers, as was the pivotal steal and jam against Pierce. This was a game in which even tiny daggers assumed monumental importance in gaining the momentum advantage and nipping opposing runs in the bud, and that steal was one of them.

The Celtics displayed a load of heart, the ability to tweak their offense to make the game quite even after the first quarter, producing the ability to compete, blow for blow, on a formidable opponent's home court. The Celts also did a masterful job of mounting a consistently stiff defense while rationing their fouls so that none of them fouled out of the game.

The difference in the game came down to the fact that the Celtics had more of a disadvantage (in height and heft) to exploit in the clutch than the Lakers did. And that was the difference not just at the end of the game. Whenever the Celts gained some serious momentum, the Lakers were able to turn the tide by using their height to score directly or to draw the Celtics defense and free up Kobe or (occasionally) a supporting player for one or more key scores..

I personally consider this game to have been a good stepping stone toward playoff preparedness of the Celtics. The character of this team is fairly well established, and there have been a couple of game in a row that displayed some pretty good chemistry (considering the continued lack of continuity on the part of the bench). They now know how to mount a pretty potent offense, starting with continually pushing and moving the ball. They have to work on being more consistent about it, especially at the beginning of games when they'll be at their relatively freshest.

Danny's ability (or inability) to produce reinforcement(s) up front will be THE major factor in determining whether to begin positioning the team for the future or give it one more strong go this season. What this game drove home to me is that they don't need just another big placeholder to take up space, do a matador act, and collect fouls. They need a big who will be able to acclimate quickly enough to the Celtics' system to make a reasonable contribution for up to at least 15 minutes a game. It could be a reasonable offensive contribution or a reasonable defensive contribution, or some combination thereof. Four points of improvement against a good team at home does not represent anything approaching an impossible challenge.

Go Celtics!

Sam

Hi,
Great game - I really enjoyed it.
IMHO, the final score was a direct result of the Celtics' inability to execute at the end of the game. They found excellent trick: screen the Thug by RR, so Pierce can go against smaller KB or a slower big. Unfortunately, at the end they couldn't do it. And the jumpers by BB and RA, that they'd usually sink at 90% rate, they missed.
Also, MP is a concern: he almost left during a game and din't come out at the very end when a 3 was a must.
But look on the bright side: Celtics didn't have to move anywhere for back-to-back game.

AK

sam wrote: The difference in the game came down to the fact that the Celtics had more of a disadvantage (in height and heft) to exploit in the clutch than the Lakers did. And that was the difference not just at the end of the game. Whenever the Celts gained some serious momentum, the Lakers were able to turn the tide by using their height to score directly or to draw the Celtics defense and free up Kobe or (occasionally) a supporting player for one or more key scores..

Sam

Spot on. A bunch of their plays consisted of them just throwing a weak pass up to the rim and Bynum going to get it. Makes you long for the days when Perk was around to lay some wood on a guy like that. Oh well.

The first time these two teams played, in Boston on February 9, I enjoyed the game from start to finish. This time, I enjoyed the second half, mainly because it was close, because it was Boston-LA, and because they played somewhat better than that atrocious first half. The first half was both teams demonstrating why they're not at the top of their conferences -- turnovers, poor defense, offensive ineptness. The commentators tried to make it sound like the turnovers and missed shots were caused by two good defensive teams going at it, but it was just poor play.

The second half was much better and lived up at least somewhat to the Celtic-Laker tradition. It was a hard-fought, seesaw battle, and both teams had an opportunity to win. The Celtics worst vulnerability is size, and the Lakers capitalized on their advantage in that department.

If either team had played well, they could've won by 20.

The Celtics couldn't hit squat early on. Pierce looked horrendous, Garnett was invisible, Rondo was off, and no one could rebound. The Lakers returned the favor by throwing the ball away like it was a preseason game. As many missed shots that I saw over the course of the game from both sides, and badly missed ones in particular, I found it hard to believe that the Lakers shot just over 50% and the Celtics 47%.

I didn't find any grand conspiracy in the Lakers shooting 26 free throws to the Celtics 12 because the Lakers have an inside game plus Kobe who drives and posts up inside while the Celtics shoot jump shots. The Lakers did a nice job of cutting the free-throw advantage in half by shooting a terrible 64% from the line, so despite having 14 more opportunities, they only made seven more free throws than the Celtics.

If this is indeed the last time the Big Three Celtics play the Kobe-Gasol Lakers, I prefer to think of the game last month in Boston as a better swan song. But given both teams' uneven play this season, yesterday's game is probably a more appropriate reflection of their current state of affairs.

Now it's up to each team to get their act together and start playing like they can. I guess both teams need to get past Thursday trade deadline first.

Outside

Unfortunately, due to this little thing called "life", I wasn't able to catch most of the 1st quarter. From what I've heard and seen, it's a good thing too. I showed up just in time to see Steamer's magnificent block of Pau Gasol. It is truly rare seeing a 7-footer's shot getting blocked cleanly when he is down low like that and has full extension of his arm on a baby hook.

It's strange to think of the Celtics as the running team and the Lakers as the plodding, halfcourt team, but that's who they are now. 21 fast break points for the Celts vs 8 for the Lakers.

Our 14-point quarter didn't help. We shot 25% that quarter. Like I said, I didn't show up until there was only a few minutes left in the quarter, but you don't have to be Dr. Naismith to realize 14 points on 25% shooting isn't a good way to start a game.

1. We're short. This is not news. We have a 6'11" player who isn't playing, JON, a 6'11" rookie, Stiemsma, and a player who is 7' but who claims to be 6'12" (KG). That right there has and will continue to give us problems against a team that has two 7-footers. Chris Wilcox, if he was in running-mode, could outrun either of those guys downcourt, but do you really think he'd have kept Gasol or Bynum from scoring from the low post?

2. Andrew Bynum showed me something yesterday and that was he is equally adept with both hands down low. Pau must have been schooling him. With his size and bulk, that makes him exceptionally difficult to guard in the low post. I was surprised, still, that KG didn't even put up one arm on Bynum's last shot, the one that put the game away. C'mon KG, you have to at least put your hands up and challenge the shot a bit.

3. Ron Artest played a DJ-like game. Coasting along, nothing note-worthy, then all of a sudden he created lockdown defense on Pierce and timely offense. He played a great few minutes that completely disrupted the Celtic offense. It didn't matter if it was Pierce or our best ballhandler Rondo, he was making it hard for them to start a halfcourt offensive set. Is he a physical player? Hell yes, but so what? He didn't cheap shot anybody. He committed a foul on Rondo. Ok, so he committed a foul. And got called for it. He roughed us up, threw off our rhythm and we didn't respond. That was our fault. If Pietrus had come in and shut down Kobe by muscling him, would we complain? Offensively, he hit some big 3s, even though he's only shooting 26% from 3 this year, and drove to the hoop, creating contact and fouls. Artest is powerful, but he's not quick, not anymore. We couldn't stop a 260# rhino from driving? This is, I believe, the best game Artest has played in a while. Let's face it, he gets up for the big games, like DJ. Remember game 6? He won that game for them too.

4. Solid game by Brandon Bass. 15 points on 7-12 shooting. I gotta give it to him, with 7-footers collapsing on him he still kept spinning to the hoop for layups. You saw our size handicap, though, when he was defending Pau. Still, Pau Gasol is one of the best 4s in the game and I thought Bass played him just about even up, just differently. Gasol had the edge on assists, because he's a great passing big man, but some of Gasol's 13 rebounds came in the Celtics' 14-point quarter, which provided a lot of Laker rebound opportunities.

5. Keyon Dooling can't go much lower on my nightmare depth chart (who would pick him for a fantasy team?), but Pietrus is taking on water too. Pietrus talked about seeing a "different Mickael Pietrus" in the 2nd half. I'd be estatic if we could get the old one back. These are the top 2 players, supposedly, coming off our bench and they stink, right now.

6. The #3 player off our bench, thrown directly into the crucible by virtue of injuries, is the Steamer. I thought he had another outstanding game. No, he didn't shoot lights out, he was only 1-1 for 2 points, but he had 3 blocks and provided some painfully needed interior presence. Only 14 minutes, for our backup center, when we're already short, and he's playing well? I'm afraid I didn't get Doc's substitution plan here. Steamer was getting the job done and I think he should have given him more minutes.

7. Derek Fisher gets an offensive rebound and a trip to the line off his own long baseline jumper? That should not have happened. Somebody in green got caught watching the paint dry. Considering we already knew going in they were going to be able to offensively rebound effectively, due to their height, there is no excuse for not boxing out the shortest guy on the floor.

8. Steve Blake is battling Keyon Dooling for worst backup point guard in the league. If we have an edge, it's that we can get rid of Dooling in a couple of months (if not by 3/15) while Blake is under contract to the Lakers until 2014. Schadenfreuden.

In the end, IMO, we lost for two reasons: Poor execution in crunch time and the inability to stop the best closer in the game. The shitty 1st quarter was negated by the end of the game. The great defense by Artest was offset by big offensive plays (like the steal by KG and great pass to Rondo for a layup) by the end of the game. We were up by 5, 94-89, with 2:41 left in the game. We were up by 3, 94-91, with 1:29 left in the game. We didn't score after the 2:41 mark. You can't go scoreless for over 2 1/2 minutes against a good team, without being up BIG, and still expect to win. Their defense stepped up, our offense didn't, and the best closer in the game did what he does.

Another tough game, against an even better team today. No rest for the weary.

bob

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bobheckler wrote: Is he a physical player? Hell yes, but so what? He didn't cheap shot anybody. He committed a foul on Rondo. Ok, so he committed a foul. And got called for it. He roughed us up, threw off our rhythm and we didn't respond. That was our fault. If Pietrus had come in and shut down Kobe by muscling him, would we complain? Offensively, he hit some big 3s, even though he's only shooting 26% from 3 this year, and drove to the hoop, creating contact and fouls. Artest is powerful, but he's not quick, not anymore. We couldn't stop a 260# rhino from driving? This is, I believe, the best game Artest has played in a while. Let's face it, he gets up for the big games, like DJ. Remember game 6? He won that game for them too.

Bob - Usually agree with nearly everything you say, but have to call you on this one.

First off, Ron Artest couldnt carry DJ's gym bag.....I agree he gets up for big games, but I think you are really stretching here to compare a one dimensional thug to an all time great and hall of famer.

As for the whole, Artest didnt cheap shot anyone. He elbowed and pushed Paul Pierce causing a fight, did the same with KG, and later grabbed, tackled and nearly landed on Rondo's head. Not sure in what universe that Rondo foul isnt a cheap shot foul...but clearly David Stern and his merry bunch of incompetent shit heads lead by old man Joey Crawford, and long time Doc favorite, Leon Wood - agree with you....so maybe you are right.

Bob Mrkleen

I certainly call what followed the foul on Rondo pretty cheap.

Watch it and see how when he is stumbling over Rondo how he makes contact with Rondo's head and pushes it into the floor, but does it ever so subtle as to make it seems part of his fall. In my opinion it was certainly not needed to "break" his fall and was done for only one purpose, to inflict a potential injury.

Thug is too nice a word.

beat

Here is the clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z0TxMZtoS8

mrkleen09 wrote:

bobheckler wrote: Is he a physical player? Hell yes, but so what? He didn't cheap shot anybody. He committed a foul on Rondo. Ok, so he committed a foul. And got called for it. He roughed us up, threw off our rhythm and we didn't respond. That was our fault. If Pietrus had come in and shut down Kobe by muscling him, would we complain? Offensively, he hit some big 3s, even though he's only shooting 26% from 3 this year, and drove to the hoop, creating contact and fouls. Artest is powerful, but he's not quick, not anymore. We couldn't stop a 260# rhino from driving? This is, I believe, the best game Artest has played in a while. Let's face it, he gets up for the big games, like DJ. Remember game 6? He won that game for them too.

Bob - Usually agree with nearly everything you say, but have to call you on this one.

First off, Ron Artest couldnt carry DJ's gym bag.....I agree he gets up for big games, but I think you are really stretching here to compare a one dimensional thug to an all time great and hall of famer.

As for the whole, Artest didnt cheap shot anyone. He elbowed and pushed Paul Pierce causing a fight, did the same with KG, and later grabbed, tackled and nearly landed on Rondo's head. Not sure in what universe that Rondo foul isnt a cheap shot foul...but clearly David Stern and his merry bunch of incompetent shit heads lead by old man Joey Crawford, and long time Doc favorite, Leon Wood - agree with you....so maybe you are right.

MrKleen,

I suppose it should be expected that even mentioning Artest in the same breath as DJ would create some issues here on Celtic Planet.

Is it fair to compare a DPOY to a defensive-oriented HOFer? Perhaps not, but it's not nonsensical either.

I gave Artest credit for playing a great game yesterday. I gave him credit for playing a great game 6 (although, now that I think about it, it was game 7 that he excelled in, and that's even bigger). I also gave him credit for getting up for big games, and that means against us.

That's not the same thing as saying he has had a great career and is a future HOFer, like DJ. Although, being a DPOY, his name will be on a plaque in there somewhere, won't it?

bob

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bobheckler wrote: MrKleen,

I suppose it should be expected that even mentioning Artest in the same breath as DJ would create some issues here on Celtic Planet.

Is it fair to compare a DPOY to a defensive-oriented HOFer? Perhaps not, but it's not nonsensical either.

I gave Artest credit for playing a great game yesterday. I gave him credit for playing a great game 6 (although, now that I think about it, it was game 7 that he excelled in, and that's even bigger). I also gave him credit for getting up for big games, and that means against us.

That's not the same thing as saying he has had a great career and is a future HOFer, like DJ. Although, being a DPOY, his name will be on a plaque in there somewhere, won't it?

bob

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There are LOTS of plaques in the building in Springfield - I am sure there is one that tells you where to park and which restroom is for men and women too. Not sure what being on one has to the with the price of tea in China, or the Naismith Hall of Fame inductees....but ok.

Bob,

Just want to say again how much I appreciate your game summaries. I always look forward to them and was a little disappointed when I didn't see it in this thread earlier (SO impatient). And thanks to 112288 for starting off these postgame threads.

bobheckler wrote:I showed up just in time to see Steamer's magnificent block of Pau Gasol. It is truly rare seeing a 7-footer's shot getting blocked cleanly when he is down low like that and has full extension of his arm on a baby hook.

6. The #3 player off our bench, thrown directly into the crucible by virtue of injuries, is the Steamer. I thought he had another outstanding game. No, he didn't shoot lights out, he was only 1-1 for 2 points, but he had 3 blocks and provided some painfully needed interior presence. Only 14 minutes, for our backup center, when we're already short, and he's playing well? I'm afraid I didn't get Doc's substitution plan here. Steamer was getting the job done and I think he should have given him more minutes.

That was a beautiful block on Gasol. I too can't remember when he's had a shot blocked when at full extension. Everybody gets their shot blocked sometime, but few players have the length, timing, and attitude necessary to block a shot like that. And if I remember correctly, Stiemsma got the block as an on-ball defender, which is even more impressive; many showy blocks are made by an off-the-ball defender coming off his man to swat the ball.

As for Stiemsma's minutes allocated by Doc, I tend to agree with you, although there are some factors supporting Doc's decision. Stiemsma did get make some poor plays, including his attempt to tap a rebound out to KG which went instead to Kobe, he immediately compounded that error by fouling Kobe for an and-1, and his poor pass to Pierce resulted in Artest's steal and breakaway dunk. Another factor may be that shotblockers tend toward over-reliance on the blocked shot, which often leaves them vulnerable to head fakes and fouls and can put them out of position for rebounds. So it may be that Doc saw some flaws that he's been trying to get Stiemsma to correct and didn't play him more as a result. But it's not as if everyone else was playing a flawless game, which is a big checkmark in the Play Stiemsma More column.

Still, there's a lot to like in this guy's potential. Maybe instead of putting their chips to bid for a guy like Bogut or Kaman, they'd be better served by developing a talent they already have as they move into the post-Big Three era.

bobheckler wrote:2. Andrew Bynum showed me something yesterday and that was he is equally adept with both hands down low. Pau must have been schooling him. With his size and bulk, that makes him exceptionally difficult to guard in the low post. I was surprised, still, that KG didn't even put up one arm on Bynum's last shot, the one that put the game away. C'mon KG, you have to at least put your hands up and challenge the shot a bit.

Bynum obviously had an impactful game (duh), but I noticed on numerous occasions, particularly in the second half, he had opportunities down low but was off-balance and missed a relatively easy shot or turned the ball over. He's done a nice job of being more patient in making his move when he receives the ball on the block, but when he can be patient enough to gather himself in those frenetic situations under the basket and finish the play, he'll be even more of a beast to contend with. He's advanced a lot, and he has the potential to advance a lot more, assuming he stays healthy (there's always that).

bobheckler wrote:5. Keyon Dooling can't go much lower on my nightmare depth chart (who would pick him for a fantasy team?), but Pietrus is taking on water too. Pietrus talked about seeing a "different Mickael Pietrus" in the 2nd half. I'd be estatic if we could get the old one back. These are the top 2 players, supposedly, coming off our bench and they stink, right now.

8. Steve Blake is battling Keyon Dooling for worst backup point guard in the league. If we have an edge, it's that we can get rid of Dooling in a couple of months (if not by 3/15) while Blake is under contract to the Lakers until 2014. Schadenfreuden.

Dooling is worse. Blake actually does some good things. In yesterday's game, Blake made one shot and had six assists, two steals, and only one turnover. Other than missing three shots, Dooling's stat line was completely filled with zeros. Nada, zip, nothing. Dooling is worse.

bobheckler wrote:7. Derek Fisher gets an offensive rebound and a trip to the line off his own long baseline jumper? That should not have happened. Somebody in green got caught watching the paint dry. Considering we already knew going in they were going to be able to offensively rebound effectively, due to their height, there is no excuse for not boxing out the shortest guy on the floor.

Even worse was Bass biting on Fisher's ball fake, fouling him, and putting him on the line for two easy points. I agree with you that Bass had a good game overall, but if Bass keeps his feet there, Fisher has to take the ball out and reset. Instead, he made both free throws and tied the game. Huge play.

bobheckler wrote:Another tough game, against an even better team today.

You certainly can't take the Clippers for granted, but they are not a better team than the Lakers. They had a feel-good run to start the season, but since Billups went out on February 6, they are 8-9, including 4-7 in their last 11 games. Their defense is suspect, their bench is thin, Butler has lost his mojo, and Chris Paul broke his nose Friday and is wearing a mask like Kobe. Reality is setting in. That's not to say that the Celtics can take them for granted, because they can't, but the Clippers are definitely not on a roll, unless you consider it a downhill one.

Against my better judgment, I'll chime in on the Metta Thug Peace thing. I don't think his push of Rondo's head was all that severe or intentful. Artest's eyes were on the ball (not Rondo), and when he got his feet tangled with Rondo's and started falling down, he put his hand down to break his fall. If it had been a hard push onto the floor, Rondo would've grabbed the front of his head where it thumped the floor, but he grabbed the back of his head, like it was more of strain to his head and neck muscles. It was a foul (multiple fouls, considering the grab around Rondo's waist), but I don't see Ultimate Evil attempting to spill Rondo's brains on the floor.

The thing with Artest and Pierce tangling up their arms was two jerks doing what they do. Pierce is The Captain, a clutch scorer, and a lot better than Artest, but he also excels at gamesmanship and dickishness and is more than happy to engage in a mutual armlock-fest where both parties are willing to start it, neither one backs off, and both act like it's all the other guy.

It's something of a deflection, but I'll point to a repeated gambit by Pierce -- when the opponent is shooting two free throws, Pierce likes to line up for the first one on the opposite side of where he ultimately wants to be. After the first free throw, when the shooter is tapping hands with his teammates, Pierce then strolls through the lane to disrupt the hand-tap and line up where he really wants to be. I've seen him do it lots of times, and he did it again yesterday. If a guy on your team does stuff like that, it's gamesmanship and doing everything you can to gain an edge for your team, but if a guy on another team does it, it's being a jerk. Similarly, if Artest was in green, Celtic fans would see his physical play as a plus, praise the virtues of his toughness, and call the other team whiners for complaining about it.

Outside@boyisheaskingforit.com

To no one in particular,

As I said earlier, Artest did what he knew he could get away with. Just one misstep and he could have suffered by it. But he didn't make that misstep. There have been Celtics players through the years who have been called thugs...people like Bob Brannum, Jim Loscutoff, Greg Kite, M.L. Carr, and even Kendrick Perkins. They were tough players, and what they had in common with Artest is that they had a good sense for what line they shouldn't cross.

On threads like this one, we have the luxury of dissecting games in hindsight. Doc has to make his decisions in the heat of battle (I accidentally typed "bottle" at first, and I wouldn't be shocked if it came to that.) And, in the heat of battle, he has to make quick judgments such as whether the unpredictable mix of Greg's good plays and rookie mistakes is preferable to having a more tired KG or a shorter Bass on the floor—especially in a seesaw game nearing its conclusion. Personally, I'd go with the veteran almost every time.

It's natural to become so excited about a young player's good moments that his ever-present potential for less positive contributions sort of takes a back seat in our minds. Suppose Odom or Kaman or even Wilcox had been healthy and available yesterday. How many minutes would Stiemsma probably have spent on the floor? Since they weren't available, Greg was the only logical stopgap. But that doesn't mean he was necessarily a more desirable choice than extra minutes for KG and/or Bass were against such an experienced, savvy team.

Go Celtics.

Sam

Completely disagree Outside (and Sam)

Ron Artest is amongst the most suspended players in professional sports history. Did we already forget about his 86 game suspension for the brawl that helped form the modern day narrative of the NBA being filled with hoodlums? From his days as a rookie in NY, he has ALWAYS been a punk, a loose cannon, and a liability for the NBA. Yet now that he plays for a premiere franchise, that is somehow allowed by the league?

His beef with Pierce aside, he doesnt just play hard (like Pierce) he plays dirty. Throwing a player who is 70 lbs lighter then you down on the court and diving on top of him is not only a dirty play, it is a dangerous play.

There is no way you can compare a bit of gamesmanship from a future hall of famer, to outside the lines antics of a dirty player with a long long history.

outside,

Stiemsma had some goofs. As I pointed out, KG didn't even raise a hand to contest Bynum's last shot. This is a transgression I got down on Steamer for in earlier games. Overall I was pleased, especially viewed in the context of him being an inconsistently used rookie being thrown into a national game pressure cooker. I agree with your summation, that we should develop Steamer rather than chasing Bogut, but he's not going to be more than a backup center next year, if ever. The vulnerability remains. If we keep him (and I sure as hell hope we do) that would mean one less piece we'll need next year when JON is absolutely, positively gone. Even if KG sticks around, we don't want to ride him as the starting center all year.

I'm depressed we're actually having to discuss who's worse, Steve Blake or a Celtic (including the mascot, if we have one). Yesterday, I'd have to say Dooling. I actually saw Blake playing some defense. Overall, over the course of the season, I'd hate to have to live on the difference. Just saying that makes me want to put a nail gun to my head...

As far as the foul by Bass on Fisher, I somewhat sanguine about that. One minute your eye is on the ball, your ass is (hopefully!) against your man and then suddenly the ball comes off the board weird and ends up in the hands of some guy you didn't even know was there and you react instinctively. As I posted, my bitch isn't with the reaction play by Bass so much as with the failure of Fisher's man to mark him.


bob

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Well, this might explain Steamer's limited minutes. From ESPN Boston:

As if the Celtics needed anything else to worry about with their bigs, rookie center Greg Stiemsma, who did not play the final 13 minutes on Sunday, left the Staples Center with a walking boot on his right foot, apparently a precautionary measure as he moved around the locker room without issue immediately after the game. Stiemsma endured right foot ailments while in college at Wisconsin.

Where did I leave my nail gun?

bob

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The Celtics lost this game because Paul Pierce shot 4 for 14 and had no rebounds.

The Celtics cannot and will not beat the better teams unless PP plays well. In this game he was below average despite dishing out 9 assists. Ya gotta hit more than 4 shots and you got to rebound particularly when you know you are down 2 bigs.

lets not over analyze this thing. The big three have reach a point in their careers where you cannot depend on them to play well. We simply never know how they are going to play from one game to the next.

I'm just riding this one out with an eye to the future