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Post by 112288 Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:59 pm

Of the 24 bench points scored by the Celtic, Bradley accounted for 19...Ya gotta love the kid!

When he comes into a game he brings pure energy to the team and the other players pick up on that!
DOC START THE KID PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Celtics lost the game in the first half with lax defense, no rebounding and settling for jumpers and no cutters.

We were out rebounded 53 to 39 and as Tommy Heinsohn pointed out, we took jump shots with no one coming in on the weak side to rebound!

One player my daughters were rooting for was #4 Danny Green on SA. They were friends with him while they attended St Mary's High School in Manhassett Long Island. Same church that I see Bill O'Reilly of FOX attend every Mass at 5pm on Saturday's.


NEXT GAME - TOMORROW @ CHICAGO 8PM - TNT

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POST GAME WEEI 850 AM

FAST BREAK: CELTICS CAN’T FINISH AGAINST SPURS
By Paul Flannery


Maybe they won’t meet in the finals — although with the way this season has gone, who can tell for sure — but the Celtics and Spurs put on an exciting show at the Garden on Wednesday. They played the first half at a breakneck pace, but settled in for an old fashioned defensive slugfest in the second.

The Celtics lost, 87-86, which snapped their five-game winning streak, but they remained one game ahead of Philadelphia in the Atlantic Division after the Sixers lost by 21 points at home against the Raptors.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

The new sixth man is Avery Bradley: There will be much made of Doc Rivers‘ decision to keep Ray Allen in the starting lineup and this game will only add fuel to the fire. Allen was understandably rusty in his first game back from his ankle injury, Bradley, however, showed no ill effects coming off the bench, scoring 13 points in the first half on 6-for-11 shooting and holding Manu Ginobli to just two points and two shots.

For all the talk about whether Allen would make a good sixth man, it looks like the job belongs to Bradley. He was on the floor with the other four starters (minus Brandon Bass) is crunch time.

Rajon Rondo outplayed Tony Parker: On a night when Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce struggled, it was Rondo who carried the load with 17 points and 11 assists. You can make a very good case that Parker has been the Spurs’ best player this season and Rondo outplayed him.

The defense didn’t always rest: After getting torched for 59 points in the first half, the Celtics’ defense tightened up in the third quarter, allowing just nine points on 4-for-20 shooting. They weren’t much better offensively — scoring just 16 points on 6-for-17 shooting — but their defense allowed them to get back in the game.

WHAT WENT WRONG

So that’s what a good bench looks like: Before the game, Rivers noted that the Celtics were facing the teams with what he believes are the two best reserve units in the league: San Antonio and Chicago. The Spurs opened up a 17-point lead in the second quarter, thanks to 11-for-13 shooting. The kicker was that Ginobli didn’t do much that quarter. It was Gary Neal, Matt Bonner and Stephen Jackson who did the damage.

Not one for The Big Three museum: Pierce had a chance to win the game at the buzzer, but his contested mid-range jumper fell short. This was a familiar reprieve in the second half as Pierce had several chances to put the Celtics ahead but couldn’t finish. Garnett shot just 7-for-19 and had a bad turnover late in the game. In his first game back, Allen was just 2-for-6, although he did hit a huge 3-pointer late. Combined, the veteran All-Stars shot less than 40 percent (16-for-41) .

Free throw issues: The Celtics didn’t get to the line very much with just 13 attempts, which was fine because they didn’t shoot them very well, making just six.
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Post by mrkleen09 Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:12 pm

The Spurs BETTER have a good bench, as their starters are mediocre at best.

In the end, the C's did not execute. KG missed a couple of jumpers and gave up some rebounds that he usually secures. Rondo threw the ball away one two many times. Pierce got the switch he wanted, but instead of driving Duncan to the hoop - he took a weak fall away.

Great come back, lots of heart from everyone on down the line to Sasha and Dooling - but just not enough.

No rest for the weary, Chitown tomorrow night.
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Post by 112288 Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:22 pm

MRK.

It was game that was fun to watch with end to end action. I just sensed, may be it's me that they were out of sync defensively without Bradley starting. No ball pressure, some easy layups. Again just an observation.

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Post by Sam Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:26 pm

For a very short while, it looked as though the Celtics might once again rush out to a commanding lead and force the Spurs to play catchup. But, instead of feeding off the fast pace in the first quarter as is their recent history, the Celts' defense was shredded. I believe the absence of Bradley and the need to re-integrate Ray were instrumental. By the second half, the defense was back on track, and they should have been well in front bu the end of the third, except that their offense couldn't take advantage of stop after stop.

Some people may blame the loss on Pierce's decision at the end. But, frankly, the Celtics should have had enough of a cushion that it didn't matter.

I've said elsewhere that the Celtics might experience a little backsliding as they adjust to Ray's presence and Avery's revised role. But, if this is the limit of any backsliding, I'd say they're in pretty good shape.

I expect some people will lobby for the return of Avery to the starting lineup. But I think it's imperative that they not do a lot of back-and-forth experimenting at this stage. They need the continuity.

Sam


Last edited by sam on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by cowens/oldschool Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:28 am

I agree Sam the team needs continuity which is exactly why they should have kept AB in the starting line up, other than the 3 by Ray at the end he looked rusty and his defense doesn't add much to the team, bad decision by Doc, he should have eased Ray back. I'm not putting all the blame on Ray as KG wasn't as dominant defensively as he ussually is. We blew so many bunnies in the 3rd, Bass and KG missing little 6 footers, those misses caught up to us. Saw the game from Professor Thoms and everyone was saying why didn't Pierce drive at the end? He had a big on him, that should have made it easier to drive by him.....he should have went to the line or dunked.

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Post by Berlin-T Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:48 am

Sam,

We had great chemistry with AB starting - 5 wins in a row. Why wouldn't Doc want to base his continuity on that?

Just 2 more FT made or one layup not blown and we could have won. That's what made this game so frustrating.

That said, I think this team, with a bit of luck health-wise, could go a very long way in the playoffs. And it wouldn't surprise me if they went all the way.
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Post by dboss Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:59 am

Very fun game to watch.

Thought kg missed a ton of shots that he usually makes. Seems he was rushing things a bit..AB continues to play well.

You could see that we missed MP. The Spurs are deep .

Questionable iso play at the end for PP. would have liked to see something going to the hoop.

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Post by sinus007 Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:48 am

Hi,
It was a game lost due to sloppiness in the last 2 minutes. And the blame goes to the team not just PP's last play.

I agree with Sam: they had to re-integrate RA and it cost them a lot. RR tried to feed him the ball whenever possible even at the expense of other, more productive players. Credits to RA - he was trying despite being cold and rusty. I hope his foot is ok and will get better.
I have to note SP for his tough and smart defense. Now he has to work on his shooting confidence.
On the bright side, Celtics can defend. They can stifle any team in NBA.

After this game I realized that it's what you see is what you get... in playoffs. 5 starters + AB, GS and SP; Dooling will sub for 3-5 min to give RR and AB a breather. I don't know MP's status but even if he's available by the playoffs he won't be at the level he had been before the injury. What a tough break. I hope he fully recovers.

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Post by 112288 Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:07 am

Let's use wait a few more games to see if the Celtics round back into form with Allen or the need to bring him off the bench and set the tone of the game with defense through Bradley.


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Post by MDCelticsFan Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:45 am

112288:

I'm hoping we can see a blend of the 2, and not one at the expense of the other. There will be times when Ray's shooting eye will be needed, and other times when Bradley's frenetic swarming defense and ball movement will be the order of the moment. Too bad we didn't hit enough free throws and have at least a measure of our second half defense in the first half of last night's contest with the Spurs.

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Post by 112288 Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:39 am

MD,

The Celtics gain points in a different way by playing Bradley. Bradley gains the majority of his points through cuts to the basket rather than the majority of Allen's points through the jump shot.

Additionally, and this is an intangible, how many points does Bradley keep off the score by his lock down defense that Allen cannot deliver? You know, ball pressure and eating the clock up, rushed passes that lead to turnovers, a steal here and there.

Time will tell, but certainly Bradley is the new breed Celtic.

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Post by beat Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:55 am

Couldn' t watch the game last eve Crying or Very sad

Just got to wonder if we would have gotten off to a lead if AB had started in lieu of RA. Would we then have forged a lead and made the Spurs play catch up? Certainly our D in the second half was good.

We apparently had our chances regardless.

Bulls tonight with/without Rose it would be a nice win.

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Post by MDCelticsFan Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:58 am

112288:

Good observations about Bradley's cutting ability. More than one occasion KG has found him on a give 'n go back door cut to the hoop. Bradley's on-ball defense is more worrisome to the opposition than hemmorhoids without Preperation H.

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Post by MDCelticsFan Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:01 am

Beat:

Rose is supposed to play from what I hear he's been practicing for a while so I wouldn't look for an abundance of rust on his game. I expect he's going to be his usual handful for Rondo. Also, it's hard for Doc to outcoach Thibbs since the two know know each other so well.

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Post by beat Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:12 am

MD

hammies need absolute rest to get better and he's been out for quite a while, certainly they have been in no rush to bring him back.

And isn;t it fitting that they might spring him on us for his first game back?

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Post by MDCelticsFan Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:37 am

Beat:

Yes it si! But it's not an Irish Spring since no soap's involved and it's past St. Patty's Day! By the way, is your wife going to cook a hammie for Easter this Sunday?

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Post by bobheckler Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:30 pm

If basketball is a game of runs, then this one should go into the history books. We're talking BIG runs, long runs, by both the Spurs (twice) and the Celtics. The Spurs had a 27 point 1st quarter followed by a 32 point 2nd quarter. In other words, we didn't adjust well. After going down by the dreaded 17 points at one point, the Celtics showed a lot of ganas and stormed back.

Statistically, we won this game except for the only statistic that counts and that's the final score. Another reason why stats can confirm what you thought you saw, but can't tell you the game. San Antonio is not a great defensive team anymore, they are an efficient offensive team. They shot 42% yesterday. They only took 11 fta. They only had 17 assists. They had 17 turnovers. The final score was 87-86. That's our type of game, not theirs, our pace.

1. Game high scorer, both teams, Avery Bradley with 19 points. With players like Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Ginobili on the floor, did you ever think you'd hear that? A very efficient 9-16 night. And why not? Most of his shots come within 2' of the rim. This kid might be one of the best, if not THE best, back cutter in the league. You take your eyes off him, even for a split second, at your own peril. I love the way his first thought is to always go to the hoop. Rondo made a fantastic steal off a Spur rebound and who went immediately to the front of the rim for the pass and a layup? Avery Bradley. I mentioned on the Game On thread that it was like Bird and DJ. Bird made the steal, but it was DJ who went to the hoop. I'm really starting to love this kid's instincts. If I was an opposing defensive coach, I'd tell my guy "open up your stance so you always have him in your vision, but if you do turn do not turn so he can get behind you baseline. Force him to the middle". It doesn't matter who starts the game, what matters is who finishes, right? Well, the lineup on the floor at the end of the game was Rondo, Bradley, Allen, Pierce and KG. More on that later.

2. Ray Allen didn't have a good scoring game. Yes, he hit a big 3 near the end, but if he had even a decent game we wouldn't have needed it. As usual, though, he did other things. 7 rebounds, 2 assists and 2 steals. It's going to take some time for him to get his rhythm back and to re-integrate him into the starting lineup. A couple more points than 5 would have been helpful last night though. Man-to-man, Daniel Green ate him up.

3. Rondo outplayed Tony Parker. Not only did he out-assist him badly (11 vs 2) he outscored him. Considering Parker is a very good shooter, that's amazing. Rondo's 4 steals were completely disruptive too. The steal I referred to was extremely athletic, snaring an outlet pass from Gary Neal in his web-like Gecko hands and then seeing Bradley doing what he does so well, going to the front of the iron.

3. KG hit his first 2 shots and then went 1-5 for the rest of the 1st quarter. I don't blame KG for taking them, you have to take your shot when you have them, I blame Rondo and Doc for continuing to run the same play for KG when it was obvious he was cold. Run the same play for someone else. Run a different play to KG, one where he gets an easier, closer-in shot, to rebuild his rhythm. This cold spell put us in a hole in the 1st quarter, a hole we spent almost the entire rest of the game to dig out of. Sam opined, on the Game On thread, that you don't want to move away from a player just because he's cold, because then you're playing 4-on-5. Well, 4-on-5 can still be effective, look at the highly efficient Celtic offense of 2008 with Perk playing center, but feeding an ice-cold shooter isn't. Just a difference of opinion.

4. The Spurs starting 5 aren't what the used to be. Tony Parker isn't and The Big Fundamental certainly isn't. Nevertheless, Duncan grabbed 16 rebounds, 4 offensive, including some very big offensive boards late.

5. The Spurs bench, however, looks good. Manu Ginobili, the Argentinean flopper, is now coming off the bench for Pop as is future Oakland murder suspect, Stephen Jackson. Both of them are former, legitimate starting players. Hear that, Doc and Ray? Matt Bonner is a pain-in-the-ass. He only really has 1 shot, and that's a 3, but he's good at them and he drags the defense way out. He also got 10 rebounds in 21 minutes. Gary Neal can shoot'em too and who the hell is this Tiago Splitter? A 6'11", 27 year old Brazilian rookie? Taking it to KG?

6. Steamer played 8 minutes. I don't understand that, especially considering how well Steamer has been playing lately. Doc went small-ball last night. In my opinion, that cost us. We got killed on the offensive boards in the couple of minutes because our PF was Paul Pierce. Pop is throwing Duncan, Bonner and Splitter at us and Doc only played our only other legit 5 eight minutes?

7. Another solid game by Sasha. With momentum going the wrong way, he started off the 2nd quarter with a 3 and a steal for a dunk. He played his usual sticky, physical defense too.

8. Dooling turned back into a pumpkin. Well, I let him out of the doghouse, so I gotta give him another shot to show that this was another aberration and not a relapse. Then again, he played against a good team last night, not Minnesota.

9. Bass played 29 minutes. He played very good defense last night, forget about his stats. I don't understand why Doc didn't have him in the lineup the last minute. How could Doc expect KG and Pierce to defend the boards against Tim Duncan and Matt Bonner?

10. We shot 6-13 from the line. 6-13. We hit 8-13 (still under 62%) and we win. Shaking my head at this...

11. We got outrebounded 53-39. That's ridiculous, but understandable. That's one of the risks you take with small-ball. 12 of their rebounds were offensive.

What pissed me off about this game is that with 2 minutes left to play we had a 2 point lead and then closed out the game like a young lottery team. What pisses me off is that their Championship team out-executed in crunch time and our Championship team didn't. Paul Pierce with a quick, unnecessary 3 that missed. Rondo with a quick, unnecessary 17' jump shot that missed. Rondo and KG playing cute and letting the ball dribble up court without touching it so clock doesn't start and then KG picks it up and immediately throws an 8' turnover pass because he was passing to a spot on the floor and not looking first and seeing that Pierce was double-teamed. Empty, poorly executed possessions that San Antonio used to come back down and score off of. Hero ball. Hero ball misses, hero ball loss. Yes, I know Ray hit that big 3 which gave us life, but we shouldn't have been in that position. Instead of being up 6-8 we were down 4 and needing a Ray Allen dagger to make a buzzer-beating Pierce hero ball miss even relevant.

The good news is that Toronto pulled off an upset in Philly and we maintained our lead over the Sixers. Embarrassing free throw shooting, horrible 1st half defense and crunch-time hero ball cost us the opportunity to put some distance between us and the Sixers, with Chicago tonight and Indiana on Saturday and Philly at home on Sunday.

Hanging on by our fingernails to the #4 slot.

bob

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Post by Sam Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:06 pm

Bob,

Playing 4 on 5 is a completely position when KG is involved rather than Perk. The Celtics system incorporating Perk didn't depend on him for offense. The current Celtics system depends on KG for offense. Moving away from him just because he was shooting 3 for 7 in the first quarter (a basket on his next shot and he'd be at the 50% mark) would disrupt a major element in the system and, in fact, would put added pressure on him to produce.

Good basketball coaches don't micro-manage to the extent that their players are constantly looking over their shoulders every time they have a little bad run. Especially not with a cornerstone of the franchise who has been their MVP for quite a while now. You go to your best, and if that doesn't work out on one occasion, it will most likely work out on the next several occasions. You play the law of averages, and the odds are greatly in your favor.

This would be a good question to mail to Heinsohn. My very strong expectation would be that he's wretch at the idea of abandoning a struggling star rather than doing everything possible to help him stop struggling. As you very correctly said on the Game-on Thread, sometimes something as simple as making one layup can propel the player on a nice little run.

I do think it was proper for Doc to lace into his players (presumably including KG) for settling for jumpers. It's a shame that they took so long to act on that message.

If KG deserved a real dressing-down last night, it would have been for that egregious sideline turnover which disrupted the Celtics' momentum at the worst possible time. I suspect KG beat himself up well beyond the required degree on that one.

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Post by Sam Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:25 pm

Sinus, reintegrating Ray to playing status represented an interruption in continuity whether he started or came off the bench. Continuity can take a hit whether it involves losing a player or adding a player.

Obviously, Doc felt that, since Ray's return would result in some lost continuity either way, the biggest net gain for the team for the long haul involved starting Ray. Whether Doc is still happy he made that choice is an interesting question.

It could be that we should be discussing Doc's decision to play Ray down the stretch rather than focusing so much on the fact that Ray started. That late three could potentially act as a catalyst for Ray's return to the team—especially since I believe Ray's greatest value to the Celtics at this point in his career is at the end of close games.

I remember saying, earlier in the season, that we would be very likely to learn a lot about basketball this year. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm soaking it up like crazy.

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Post by Outside Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:41 pm

Tiago Splitter isn't exactly a rookie, not even technically, since this is his second NBA season. He's 27 and played professionally on the Brazilian national team and in Europe for 11 years prior to being drafted by the Spurs. He was the Spanish league MVP in 2010.

I've seen him play a few times, and we picked him up for a while on our fantasy team. He's a solid if unspectacular post man. He rarely has a spectacular game to draw media attention, but he shoots a high percentage from the field, contributes decent numbers in rebounds and other categories, and does a lot of little things well. He's a great complement to Duncan and Blair, and I think he's found a home in San Antonio's system.

The Spurs have been below the radar all season, partly due to their disappointing first round loss last year to Memphis, but also because their core of Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker are aging and less effective and no one else puts up great numbers. What they have instead is a bunch of good players like Splitter who fit into Popovich's system and win without the SportsCenter highlights. Now that they're one behind Chicago in the loss column and tied with Miami and OKC, people might start paying more attention.

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Post by bobheckler Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:51 pm

sam wrote:Bob,

Playing 4 on 5 is a completely position when KG is involved rather than Perk. The Celtics system incorporating Perk didn't depend on him for offense. The current Celtics system depends on KG for offense. Moving away from him just because he was shooting 3 for 7 in the first quarter (a basket on his next shot and he'd be at the 50% mark) would disrupt a major element in the system and, in fact, would put added pressure on him to produce.

Good basketball coaches don't micro-manage to the extent that their players are constantly looking over their shoulders every time they have a little bad run. Especially not with a cornerstone of the franchise who has been their MVP for quite a while now. You go to your best, and if that doesn't work out on one occasion, it will most likely work out on the next several occasions. You play the law of averages, and the odds are greatly in your favor.

This would be a good question to mail to Heinsohn. My very strong expectation would be that he's wretch at the idea of abandoning a struggling star rather than doing everything possible to help him stop struggling. As you very correctly said on the Game-on Thread, sometimes something as simple as making one layup can propel the player on a nice little run.

I do think it was proper for Doc to lace into his players (presumably including KG) for settling for jumpers. It's a shame that they took so long to act on that message.

If KG deserved a real dressing-down last night, it would have been for that egregious sideline turnover which disrupted the Celtics' momentum at the worst possible time. I suspect KG beat himself up well beyond the required degree on that one.

Sam


sam,

Sure, I'll try and get Tommy to answer this. How would you suggest I ask the question, considering there won't be an opportunity for a follow-up question or request for further clarity?

How about:
"If a key player, like KG, were to go ice-cold from the field would you run plays for other players, run a different play for him or keep feeding him in the same spot until he starts hitting again?"

bob

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Post by sinus007 Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:59 pm

Sam,
As I said I had no qualms about RA. Doc had to do it, so why not at the first opportunity. The sad part was that Celtics could easily get away...

Also, I wonder if Doc'd execute the following. If they're up 2-4 points at the end of a game - put AB in instead of RA to protect that lead.

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