Pietrus "not a veterans minimum player"

This, per his agent Bill McCandless. According to him he's had vet minimum offers being "thrown at him like hubcaps".

Where the hell did he grow up, where they sling hubcaps at you?

Given our salary issues that pretty much wraps up his tenure here.

I'll try not to chortle into my beer. When it was first talked about him coming on board I believe I described him as "dumber than a bag of hammers". I felt bad saying that, since hammers have never done anything to me for me to speak so poorly of them. There were a couple of times, though, when I wondered if I was too harsh on him, but by the end of the playoffs I thought "nope, I nailed him".

Very athletic but just not the brightest bulb in the box. After his fall (I'm very glad that wasn't more serious) he lost whatever aggressiveness he had and became a 3-ball shooter almost exclusively. Defensively, he had his moments but he also made a lot of bonehead fouls too. A lot.

With Jeff Green coming back and Joseph hopefully showing something, we don't need Mickael Pietrus sticking his tongue out.

Bonne fortune et au revoir, Mssr Pietrus. Don't let the door hit you in the derriere on the way out...


bob

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Bob,

I agree the Celtics shouldn't offer Pietrus any more than the vet minimum, but I think you're being a little harsh on him. He became waaaay too fond of the three-pointer, but he played despite knee issues and had crucial contributions in wins over Miami in games 4 and 5 in the playoffs.

In game 4, Pietrus got two huge offensive rebounds in the last two minutes of overtime that helped the Celtics run down the clock while holding a 91-92 lead (they ultimately won 93-91). Both rebounds occurred after Pietrus drew a charging call on LeBron in overtime, which was his sixth foul and resulted in him fouling out for the first time in years. Pietrus also guarded LeBron on the final play in regulation and forced LeBron to give the ball up (Haslem shot an airball).

In game 5, Pietrus scored 13 points and made two key three-pointers, including one on the remarkable play in the 4th quarter where Wade blocked Bass's dunk and Rondo directed the carom out of LeBron's hands to Pietrus, who made a three. Rondo's part of the play is the highlight, but if Pietrus doesn't make the shot, the play loses its impact, both as a great play and as a turning point. It happened with six minutes to go in 4th, and Boston was down 78-72 at the time. Doc and many others called it the play of the game.

Pietrus wasn't great overall during his time in Boston, but I don't think he was awful, and he played a big part in two wins over Miami in the playoffs.

Outside


P.S. I had to laugh when you included "very athletic" in your description of Pietrus. <eye roll>

bobheckler wrote:This, per his agent Bill McCandless. According to him he's had vet minimum offers being "thrown at him like hubcaps".

Where the hell did he grow up, where they sling hubcaps at you?

Given our salary issues that pretty much wraps up his tenure here.

I'll try not to chortle into my beer. When it was first talked about him coming on board I believe I described him as "dumber than a bag of hammers". I felt bad saying that, since hammers have never done anything to me for me to speak so poorly of them. There were a couple of times, though, when I wondered if I was too harsh on him, but by the end of the playoffs I thought "nope, I nailed him".

Very athletic but just not the brightest bulb in the box. After his fall (I'm very glad that wasn't more serious) he lost whatever aggressiveness he had and became a 3-ball shooter almost exclusively. Defensively, he had his moments but he also made a lot of bonehead fouls too. A lot.

With Jeff Green coming back and Joseph hopefully showing something, we don't need Mickael Pietrus sticking his tongue out.

Bonne fortune et au revoir, Mssr Pietrus. Don't let the door hit you in the derriere on the way out...


bob

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It seems like many Celtics fans are all in with the Celtics players, then when they leave it seems like those players shortcomings are brought up.
That happened with Ray, JJJ, Moore, Williams and will now probably happen with Pietrus.
I don't think players should so easily be over-valued then under-valued if they change uniforms from green to a different color.

tjmakz wrote:

bobheckler wrote:This, per his agent Bill McCandless. According to him he's had vet minimum offers being "thrown at him like hubcaps".

Where the hell did he grow up, where they sling hubcaps at you?

Given our salary issues that pretty much wraps up his tenure here.

I'll try not to chortle into my beer. When it was first talked about him coming on board I believe I described him as "dumber than a bag of hammers". I felt bad saying that, since hammers have never done anything to me for me to speak so poorly of them. There were a couple of times, though, when I wondered if I was too harsh on him, but by the end of the playoffs I thought "nope, I nailed him".

Very athletic but just not the brightest bulb in the box. After his fall (I'm very glad that wasn't more serious) he lost whatever aggressiveness he had and became a 3-ball shooter almost exclusively. Defensively, he had his moments but he also made a lot of bonehead fouls too. A lot.

With Jeff Green coming back and Joseph hopefully showing something, we don't need Mickael Pietrus sticking his tongue out.

Bonne fortune et au revoir, Mssr Pietrus. Don't let the door hit you in the derriere on the way out...


bob

.

It seems like many Celtics fans are all in with the Celtics players, then when they leave it seems like those players shortcomings are brought up.
That happened with Ray, JJJ, Moore, Williams and will now probably happen with Pietrus.
I don't think players should so easily be over-valued then under-valued if they change uniforms from green to a different color.

TJ,

I admit I can give players in green the benefit of doubts I would not give them if they were in other colors. I see that as part of being a fan of a particular team, as opposed to the sport in general. I have friends, here in CA, who are Laker fans. You would not want to have heard some of the stuff they said about Ariza and Odom when Ariza left to Houston for the same money he could have gotten in LA and Odom started his big pout and got his hat handed to him by Buss/Kupchak as a result.

Having said that, though, I have to state firmly that I've never been a big Pietrus fan. Not even when he was with GSW, where I live and got to see him play often. Anybody who feels I am overstating this is welcome to speak up and correct me.

Player A may be great in one system and stink in another, or vice versa. Their skills and talents may complement another teammate's beautifully but, put them on another team with different teammates, and you see their flaws in glaring relief. I made these points about Perk when he left (through no effort nor desire of his own), and have received a fair amount of heat for doing so, but it is clear to me that Perk before KG had many of the same flaws Perk with OKC has, but he's not joined on the baseline with one of the best defenders in NBA history anymore and his limitations are now vivid once again. A different system with different teammates with different skillsets and he's a different looking player than he was during the 3 Amigos era, and yes, I'm also not going to cut him additional slack now because he's not wearing green.

Ray Allen stuck his thumb in our eye by leaving for a fraction of the $. Loyalty is a virtue. Furthermore, he's 37 and coming off of ankle surgery. Even if he stayed in green it would be reasonable to suggest that maybe his value has gone down until proven otherwise. Nobody, not the Celtics and certainly not the Heat, offered him as much as he made last year. Isn't that a reflection of his diminishing value in stark numbers, or is that just how I'm seeing it through my green goggles?

I thought Sean Williams showed something in the very few games he played for us. I looked forward to seeing him be a stand-out player in summer league. It never happened. Read my posts on the summer league threads (Game On and Summary) and you'll see the bottom fall out of my opinion of him before he got traded. If he thrives in Houston under McHale that's great, but I'm not going to cut him slack either. If I won't do that for Perk, who I like and miss and was a member of a championship team, I'm certainly not going to do it for a partial-year rental who never got off the bench.

There are other posters who were higher on Moore and Johnson than I was. I'll let them state their cases for themselves.


bob


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Outside wrote:Bob,

I agree the Celtics shouldn't offer Pietrus any more than the vet minimum, but I think you're being a little harsh on him. He became waaaay too fond of the three-pointer, but he played despite knee issues and had crucial contributions in wins over Miami in games 4 and 5 in the playoffs.

In game 4, Pietrus got two huge offensive rebounds in the last two minutes of overtime that helped the Celtics run down the clock while holding a 91-92 lead (they ultimately won 93-91). Both rebounds occurred after Pietrus drew a charging call on LeBron in overtime, which was his sixth foul and resulted in him fouling out for the first time in years. Pietrus also guarded LeBron on the final play in regulation and forced LeBron to give the ball up (Haslem shot an airball).

In game 5, Pietrus scored 13 points and made two key three-pointers, including one on the remarkable play in the 4th quarter where Wade blocked Bass's dunk and Rondo directed the carom out of LeBron's hands to Pietrus, who made a three. Rondo's part of the play is the highlight, but if Pietrus doesn't make the shot, the play loses its impact, both as a great play and as a turning point. It happened with six minutes to go in 4th, and Boston was down 78-72 at the time. Doc and many others called it the play of the game.

Pietrus wasn't great overall during his time in Boston, but I don't think he was awful, and he played a big part in two wins over Miami in the playoffs.

Outside


P.S. I had to laugh when you included "very athletic" in your description of Pietrus. <eye roll>

outside,

Pietrus had a good game 5, I agree. Yes, he hit his shots, but overall I have never been, and am not still, a big fan of his game and I'm not going to exalt a rotation player because he had a good game. That's expected, that's why they're rotation players and not end-of-benchers who are suddenly thrown into the fire (Steamer is a good example of one of those. He was 4th on the depth chart when the season started and ended up 2nd and played significant minutes in the 2nd half of the season. Whatever we got out of him was gravy).

I much prefer smart players, players with high IQs, over athletic players without IQ. An example that jumps to mind has been the mostly positive things I've said about Sully vs the uniformly derogatory statements I've made about Gerald Green since I saw him play in his first game with the Celtics and ever since.

I suppose I should cut him some slack, after all he only had half a shortened season to fit in, but I have too much history with him, watching him with GSW.

As far as my description of him as "very athletic", well, I just call'em like I see'em. As with Sean Williams, it just shows why basketball isn't just about running faster and jumping higher.


bob

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Ainge should give Pietrus all he wants or at least all that is left to give.

MD!

Bob,

Fair enough. I suppose my view of Pietrus is a little different because I barely saw him play at Golden State and was mostly familiar with him from his time in Orlando, when I thought he was one of their more impactful players at both ends of the court during the 2009 playoffs. But you're absolutely right -- a couple of good games, even in the playoffs, doesn't offset a season of uneven performances.

Outside

Bob, I couldn't agree with you comment about certain players flourishing in one system but not necessarily in another. I feel this is where a lot of people fall short when they evaluate an individual player without a context.

I agree with what I think your views are on Pietrus, Johnson and Moore. Pietrus' forte is obviously defense, but said defense requires a certain amount of athleticism (in this case defined very largely by footwork and lateral movement), and I doubt his body can stand the required effort without breaking down. For his sake, I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.

As for Johnson and Moore, I always had a feeling about them that they were the second coming of Scalabrine—guys who could come in and thrill the fans with a shot or a move but could never do so consistently enough to be impact players in areas where the team needs impact.

As for Ray, I always considered him akin to Sam Jones in terms of what he has offered the Celtics. (You know what a compliment that is from me.) However, I've seen his bread and butter play (the curl) become more easily defended during the past year—to the point where he required such a super-human effort to pull it off that his body seemed to want to rebel. I believe the Celtics now have marksmen who can more comfortably pursue their shooting specialties without a heroic effort so frequently being required. And also will probably be more consistently effective on the defensive end. And also will hopefully be less brittle.

Personally I'm excited to see what Christmas and Sullinger have to offer and whether they'll emerge into the "stud" category (whatever that is). I believe they can both be very good two-way pieces in the Celtics system. My personal jury's out on Joseph, Melo and Smith, but I'm more positive than negative on their potential.

In short, I think Danny has done a masterful job of improving the Celtics' lot in each of his moves, whether by design or (in at least a couple of cases) because it was forced upon him. Whereas I've entered the past two seasons in somewhat of a state of trepidation (largely due to the threat of injuries), this year I'm anticipating the season in a thoroughly hopeful mood (largely due to the degree of potential oozing out of this team's collective pores). You know how much I value continuity and chemistry, and the emerging roster seems ideally suited to achieve significantly on both counts.

Sam

sam wrote:Bob, I couldn't agree with you comment about certain players flourishing in one system but not necessarily in another. I feel this is where a lot of people fall short when they evaluate an individual player without a context.

I agree with what I think your views are on Pietrus, Johnson and Moore. Pietrus' forte is obviously defense, but said defense requires a certain amount of athleticism (in this case defined very largely by footwork and lateral movement), and I doubt his body can stand the required effort without breaking down. For his sake, I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.

As for Johnson and Moore, I always had a feeling about them that they were the second coming of Scalabrine—guys who could come in and thrill the fans with a shot or a move but could never do so consistently enough to be impact players in areas where the team needs impact.

As for Ray, I always considered him akin to Sam Jones in terms of what he has offered the Celtics. (You know what a compliment that is from me.) However, I've seen his bread and butter play (the curl) become more easily defended during the past year—to the point where he required such a super-human effort to pull it off that his body seemed to want to rebel. I believe the Celtics now have marksmen who can more comfortably pursue their shooting specialties without a heroic effort so frequently being required. And also will probably be more consistently effective on the defensive end. And also will hopefully be less brittle.

Personally I'm excited to see what Christmas and Sullinger have to offer and whether they'll emerge into the "stud" category (whatever that is). I believe they can both be very good two-way pieces in the Celtics system. My personal jury's out on Joseph, Melo and Smith, but I'm more positive than negative on their potential.

In short, I think Danny has done a masterful job of improving the Celtics' lot in each of his moves, whether by design or (in at least a couple of cases) because it was forced upon him. Whereas I've entered the past two seasons in somewhat of a state of trepidation (largely due to the threat of injuries), this year I'm anticipating the season in a thoroughly hopeful mood (largely due to the degree of potential oozing out of this team's collective pores). You know how much I value continuity and chemistry, and the emerging roster seems ideally suited to achieve significantly on both counts.

Sam

Sam,

You couldn't agree with my comment about players flourishing in one system but not another? Did you leave out a word, like "more" (e.g. "you couldn't agree MORE with my comment"). Aside from the well-known fact that you are the #1 proponent of viewing players in the context of their 5 man unit, the statments you made afterwards within your own post contradict that. I'm going to assume it was a case of thinking faster than you were typing. I do it a lot. That's why you'll see so many edits associated with my posts.

Ray Allen is a face-up knockdown shooter. He is not a turnaround jumpshooter like Pierce or KG are. He uses his motion to create enough space to face up, set his feet and shoot. I can't say how much of his increasing inability to create that space over the past year or two has been due to his recurring ankle issues and how much is just Father Time stealing a half a step on him, but he has not been as effective at that as he was a few years ago. He would still try to run his man off of picks but it seemed to me he was not able to get his shot off before his man recovered and caught up as much as 3 years ago. Leave him alone, of course, and he'll kill you. Kris Joseph was hitting the same pindowns they run for Ray in summer league. Now, before Rosalie's head explodes, let me be clear that I am NOT comparing Kris Joseph to Walter Ray Allen. What I'm saying is that Joseph was able to create the space and hit the shot like Ray did.

bob
P.S. Leave Scal alone. You know how much I loved his non-stat contributions. :-) Thib could have had anybody on his roster and he pulled Scal to Chicago with him.


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