POST GAME BROOKLYN

tj

You may not be the norm and you know it, but the Yfans most of us know want the best FA's every year and expect it as a right. You guys should have kepy Jay Buhner LOL.

cow

Cow and TJ,

I am a Yankee fan too. I was born and raised in NY, it's in the chromosomes. I went to Shea stadium regularly when I was a kid, went to a lot of games in the championship year of the 1969 Miracle Mets and it still never stuck (when the team you go see regularly, can reach easily in a half dozen subway stops and that wins a World Series against all odds doesn't turn you into a fanatic, you know it's just not fated to be. For me, it has always been pinstripes). For what it's worth, I was a Knicks fan back then too, so a life changing revelation is possible if you allow it (that's directed at you, TJ. I still have hope for you :-).

TJ's right about the Yankees. We love solid role-playing professionals like Paul O'Neill, Roy White and Tino. Of course, we want superstars at every position. Who wouldn't? Look at the Russell era. Not only did we had future HOFers at almost every position, we had them coming in one-after-another-after-another. That doesn't mean we don't also appreciate the Jungle Jim Loscutoffs, the Paul Silas's and the Jerry Sichtings too.

Teams who have a history of winning have fans that demand winning. Can you win with a team of nobodies? Sure you can. The 1969 Mets did it (ok, they had Seaver and some others but overall they were light), so did the 2005 Detroit Pistons, but that's not where the smart money's going. The smart money is being bet on the teams that are stacked top to bottom and across every position.


bob
P.S. I've always hated A-Rod too.

I have a Boston Yankees story. Back in the Eighties, some nonprofessional baseball players who were getting too old for Park League, formed a new league, the Mens Senior Baseball League. There were around two dozen teams, from the neighborhoods and from surrounding towns.

Each team in the MSBL chose a major league team and wore their uniform, went by their name. My amigos from South Boston chose the Yankees and were called the Boston Yankees. I played for them, considered it a rite of passage, still have my uniform shirt, just wore it a few days ago, the day the great Jeter got hurt. Not only that, the Boston Yankees won the first MSBL championship, which was rather fitting.

The point is that many Bostonians are closet Yankee fans. Ruth, Gehrig, Joltin Joe, Mantle, Maris, Yogi. Love your enemies.

BobH,

This is one of those times when I really have no idea how much enthusiasm is appropriate. Darko's advent was another instance (and still is). In each case, there are certainly reasons to be optimistic and reasons to be skeptical. I'd classify Leandro and Darko as "hope for the best" players. What we have going for us is that one of Doc's many strengths is fitting players to roles in which they can make maximum contributions to the team.

Sam

rickdavisakaspike wrote:The point is that many Bostonians are closet Yankee fans.

Many baseball fans in Boston have respect for the Yankees. They see them like many see the Celtics, as the pinnacle of what a championship organization looks like - and when they are picking a team for a rec league, playing the "villain" is often more fun than playing the "good guy"

But lets not go overboard here in confusing respect for being a fan. Unless things are different in Southie than they are in the rest of the city, many Bostonians are NOT Yankees fans.

Heck I live in NY, granted a heck of a lot closer to Canada than NYC, but I hate the yankees and become a fan of any team they are playing.

On that note.......

GO TIGERS!!

beat

Cow,

It's very unlike you, after we've corresponded so long, to display an almost total lack of awareness of what I stand for when it comes to basketball. It happens that I've been a fan of role players for many, many years more than you've been breathing. I'm the team guy. I'm the ANTI-star guy. I'm the guy who consistently doesn't even like to evaluate individual players outside the context of how they contribute to the team. I'm proud of the fact that the Celtics have won 18 championships without ever having a scoring champion. I don't even watch any part of all-star weekend. If you tried for the next 100 years, you couldn't be more wrong about my approach to being a fan. I mean 180 degrees wrong.

Obviously, you don't understand what I mean about choosing players for the chief skill(s) each possesses. I'll try to state it more clearly. For the sake of an example, let's suppose your entire team consists of 10 players. Rebounding is the main strength of two. Shooting is the main strength of three. Ball distribution is the main strength of two. Defense is the main strength of three. Because they're reached the pro level, they'll certainly have secondary strengths as well, but it's the primary strengths that count most. Put those 10 primary strengths together, and collectively they will always form a much better team than as if you had 10 players, each of whom (Like Courtney Lee) did a lot of things well but nothing extremely well.

When I say Red valued guys who each had a major strength along with whatever else he could contribute, that is the very definition of role players, not stars.

As for Bradley, I never thought Doc was correct in forcing him to try to learn a position for which he clearly had a complete absence of aptitude. And, at that time, I wasn't at all averse to making Bradley the PG part of a deal, depending on what we got in return. It's easy to forget now that, at the time, the Celtics had very few trading chips. At the time, Avery wasn't contributing much of anything to the team, and it was looking to me as though Doc ONLY viewed him as a potential PG for whatever reasons Doc had—maybe Avery's height.

I have no idea how much of a chance Bradley would have had to play a lot of SG if Ray hadn't gone down. Avery's emergence at the SG position turned out to be a silver lining to a bad situation. Once Bradley (and/or Doc) found Avery's niche, I never once said or implied that I'd want to trade Bradley the SG. However, even now, I'd still support including him in a trade that brought us enough in return. Same with Lee or Terry. (I believe the deal would have to bring a proven center to Boston.)

One thing you may be overlooking is an implication of Avery's style of play. While his frenetic defense is very productive, his defensive style involves a ton of physicality—including many dives and dealing with crunching picks. There's always the chance that an extremely physical player will be prone to serious injuries. I know that hasn't yet happened over the entire span of Avery's half year of play, and I'm delighted that he's currently at 100% and physically able to participate with reckless abandon in preseason practices.* But it could happen to him in the future, although I certainly hope not.

I won't even dignify the detritus comparing me with Yankees fans except to say it's interesting that you feel comfortable in stigmatizing millions of fans as sheep who have the same trait.

Sam

* Sarcasm, in case it's not obvious.

A trivia question for Yankees fans (or anyone): With what legendary slugger who played until 12 years after Babe Ruth died did Ruth have a two-man home run hitting contest? (The date should make it obvious.)

Sam

The BIG SWAT. The one where he more softly tapped it to Pierce is even better, but this one was good too. Rondo garnered the loose ball and started a break.







Pierce, from 25+







Sully with the mid-range J from Pierce. Actually, if the Net guarding Pierce hadn't fallen down that would have been a turnover.





This play was made by the 3 Celtics that were leading the break. Sully and KG to the front of the rim (Sully getting there first!) and Lee to the baseline, sucking the defense down way below the free throw line. Running produces all kinds of good benefits.









A little "french pastry" from Rondo. The true glimmer here was a 3-man fast break with Pierce finishing.







Pierce, showing some aggression. We hadn't seen that in previous games.








Courtney Lee doing EXACTLY what we want him to do, give the ball to Rondo and then RUN! Nice finish. Jeff Green was at the front of the rim for cleanup if it was needed. 3 man fast breaks. When was the last time we saw that with any consistency?







bob


.

bobheckler wrote:Cow and TJ,

I am a Yankee fan too. I was born and raised in NY, it's in the chromosomes. I went to Shea stadium regularly when I was a kid, went to a lot of games in the championship year of the 1969 Miracle Mets and it still never stuck (when the team you go see regularly, can reach easily in a half dozen subway stops and that wins a World Series against all odds doesn't turn you into a fanatic, you know it's just not fated to be. For me, it has always been pinstripes). For what it's worth, I was a Knicks fan back then too, so a life changing revelation is possible if you allow it (that's directed at you, TJ. I still have hope for you :-).

TJ's right about the Yankees. We love solid role-playing professionals like Paul O'Neill, Roy White and Tino. Of course, we want superstars at every position. Who wouldn't? Look at the Russell era. Not only did we had future HOFers at almost every position, we had them coming in one-after-another-after-another. That doesn't mean we don't also appreciate the Jungle Jim Loscutoffs, the Paul Silas's and the Jerry Sichtings too.

Teams who have a history of winning have fans that demand winning. Can you win with a team of nobodies? Sure you can. The 1969 Mets did it (ok, they had Seaver and some others but overall they were light), so did the 2005 Detroit Pistons, but that's not where the smart money's going. The smart money is being bet on the teams that are stacked top to bottom and across every position.


bob
P.S. I've always hated A-Rod too.

bob I need to apologize, hope I didn't offend anybody, I never said all Yankee fans do NOT like role players, in our situation I'm thrilled with what Danny has done, so to me fans or even Doc himself is reaching to be overly concerned about BU point, we have an all world starting point guard, HoF leaders and 2 deep at every position pretty much. I listen to Michael Kay on sports talk radio over here in Jersey and NYC, and hes brutally honest, he has ripped the Yankees at times over the years on whatever situations have arisen and he'll argue with Yankee fans that call in his show, sometimes its hillarious.....so I've heard him bash Yankee fans calling them spoiled and entitled. So to me were so stacked this year, do we have to have every single advantage? lets enjoy the waves of depth Danny created, I couldn't give 2 shits about back up point guard, were ready to rock more than enough with what we got.

Sam

Where in my last post to you did I say you didn't like role players? Reaching a bit my friend? I know you loved Paul Silas and so did I, I know you loved Scal and I wasn't crazy about him, I should have clarified that Yankee comment more, but some Yankee fans, actually alot of Yankee fans feel so entitled, they just routinely plug in a Giambi, replace him with a Texeira, they bought out A-Rod, Sabathia, went after Cliff Lee, they make me sick, I hate the Yankees. So to me bringing up the Yankees was just an analogy that having thoughts or concerns over BU point is a little overboard, but thats just me, I mean right now I'm watching us destroy the Nets and we look great, Sully, Green and Lee look really impressive, and Big 3 look great too. This is the team we've been waiting for to show up.

So I just think we'll be fine as is, when I say do we need an all star at every position its me trying to make a point. You've made your points on AB, mine are different, alrighty then.

cow