Ray Allen says don't hate the player, hate the team

exactly Rosalie and he didn't even lose his job, to him he wasn't treated right, wasn't kissed up to enough.....had to go to Miami and have Pat and the 3 stooges kiss up to him to feel better. bottomline were younger faster deeper better without him

time will heal all to a degree. Think it's a little premature to say never to anything.

in 2118 if there is a gathering of the 08 team I certainly hope he is a part of it.

A player in near the end of his career...... fighting for whatever. Who knows who got in his ear, who said whatever. His ego wanted more here than what we were willing to give. So be it.

Bottom line he's on another team and our team sure appears to be stronger perhaps in part to it.

beat

Gosh this subject just wont quit,

Im really on the fence on this whole Ray Allen thing, yes he got mentioned in multiple trade scenerio's... but thats a buisness thing and you got to deal with it. doesnt mean that your being disprespected- cuz i can pretty much damn well bet that Danny was on the phone at some point mentioning everyone in trade talks, dont mean he didnt respect Rondo, Pau or KG..

and being a f/a Ray has the right to go anywhere he wanted and to accept any deal that is offered to him.

But two teams at this point would be a slap in the face to every celtic fan- the lakers and the heat.

to a lesser extant its like a solder of fortune hiring out his servies to one army for a period of time and then, after making a name for himself, and freinds on that side, once his time was up, deciding to go fight for another army- but choosing the very side he'd been fighting against.

Now no one seems to be letting go of it, not Celtic fans, not heat fans (0ne of my female buddies out here in nm is a very cute 22 yr old Heat fan who brings up this Allen thing a few times a week) and not the media. Nor, it seems has Ray Allen himself.

Ray was in position to be able to finnish out his career here, to conclude his legacy in the new england area- and maybe to even see his jersey alongside those of Celtic hero's of yesteryear- and beside those of Peirce and KG, and likely someday Rondo..

but his decision flushed that all away like a large turd in the tiolet.. and now his recent comments about the team (and how wonderfull he is) have left a stench around, just like that turd in the toilent would leave behind some nastyness of a smell..

Like Beat said, who knows who got in his ear..? Somthing i saw yesterday though gave me pause to wonder- its from the comments on a peice about Ray's ankles..

"" AlexOctober 23, 2012 at 1:09 am"I truly believe Ray Allen is trying to justify his decision of ditching the Boston Celtics because he’s starting to regret it. After all, he basically ****** up his Celtic legacy by making an emotional decision to ditch us for the rival team"

Ray will be a HOFer, but will leave no legacy with any specific team, Seatle no longer is a team, Milwalkie.. nada.. Boston? He turned his back on us, then slammed us,,, forgeitaboutit.. Miami?? they got the leftovers of a steller career.. but heat fans will little remember him in 5 yrs.

is that whats going threw his mind now?

to paraphrase a line from a movie classic, is ray saying this to himself: " I coulda been remembered having class, I coulda still played for a contender, I coulda been a Celtic forever.. instead I'm a bum playing for the Heat, thats what I am.."

Great post Matty. I think the legacy angle, or lack thereof, is really something to think about and quite possibly one that Ray has thought about. Kudos too you for shining a light on this sometimes dark topic that I had never before seen shone.

Spike, by "beating a dead horse, I'm not talking about Ray but about the interminable life of this topic.

When I said it made no sense, clearly I wasn't talking about not understanding something. I was talking about the lack of logic in the way many interpreted Ray's comments.

Actually, I'm pretty experienced and educated when it comes to linguistics. So I think I DID understand the remark and I stand by my comments. However, not on this thread, which frankly I don't even wish to moderate any longer. It's like having Sleep Apnea. If any of the other administrators wants to take over the moderating of this and related threads, be my guest. However, as always, I will not fail to answer comments addressed to me.

If one goes back through all the threads on this topic, I believe there's nothing new that could possibly be added—not even a new syllable. It's all been stated and re-hashed again and again and again—to the point that I'd actually rather read complaints about referees, which I had previously felt to be the most boring topic ever.

I'm not at all trying to sanction anything being said or anyone's right to post about this subject forever if (s)he wishes. That's the right of all members, as long as they're reasonably civil with one another. It's also my right to comment on my reaction to a now-redundant theme if I wish. And I wish.

My preference to work fairly hard in focusing on raising and discussing salient basketball points about an exciting team.

Sam

Sam,
I was ready to let it go and then this article shows up. If Ray and the media would let it go then we would. But as soon as he says something and the media reports it, it is back on the front burner. People are hurt, we love the Celtics and we take it personal. That being said:

In defense of Ray Allen:

Ray came to the Celtics in 2008 after having a stellar career in the NBA. As the go to man for both Milwaukee and Seattle he was used to being THE star. No big three, just Jesus Shuttlesworth doing his thing. Then came the trade that brought Boston back from the depths. Ray had to give up being the star of stars to take a position as third fiddle on what was to become a championship caliber team. He dedicated himself to his phamily, the Celtics, and the community by being actively involved in numerous "giving back" activities.

When the original three years ended it was becoming clear that there was a fourth star on the horizon and he was on the fast track to becoming the leader of the team. That demoted Ray even more and with injuries, it was becoming clear that he was nearing the end of a HOF career. I am sure that Ray feels he has much left in the tank. He has always taken care of himself and he wants to continue his career. For records, for rings, for retaliation for past imagined slights? Who knows what his real motivation was to plant a dagger in the back of Celtics fans. Well just as the ball don't lie, neither do Ray's actions. He took less money, went to a hated rival, and now has thrown the team, management, and fans under the bus. Why did he do this? My only guess is that he did feel hurt by not getting the same recognition as KG, he didn't like the way he felt left out when Rondo distributed the ball. His pride was hurt.

I think there are a number of reasons why Ray left and to him all of his reasons are valid. Let us hope that Ray will soon put this behind him and refuse to answer any more questions. If he drops it, so will we.
Mulcogi

For what it's worth, a few other die-hard Celtics weigh in on this issue. The "verdict" is courtesy of Jay King, of Celticstown.com, who wrote this article. Obviously Tommy and The Cooz disagree.


http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2012/10/tom_heinsohn_bob_cousy_say_ray.html



Should the Boston Celtics retire Ray Allen's number?


Tommy Heinsohn and Bob Cousy think so. Both of the Celtics legends told Chris Tomasson of Fox Sports that No. 20 should one day hang from the TD Garden rafters.


“I’m not in charge of retiring numbers, but, yeah, I would retire
his,’’ Heinsohn said. “It should be retired. He helped them win a
championship (in 2008). He was great when he was here… In this modern
era of free agency, that was his decision to make (to go to Miami).’’


“I would retire his number,’’ Cousy said. “He was an integral part of
the 17th title team. If you’re marketing your team in sports, it’s
about what went on in the past and (going to Miami for Allen) shouldn’t
keep that from happening… He’s a big boy. He can go where he wants. I
assume he thinks he’s got a better shot at a championship than in
Boston.’’


Yes, Allen's a big boy. But did he do enough during five seasons with
the Celtics to justify having his number retired? Putting aside that
he's recently thrown all types of verbal grenades at the Celtics, let's
judge Allen's play on its own.


Pros

• Allen holds the Boston Celtics' single-season record for 3-point
  percentage, with 45.3 percent in his final season with the Celtics. He
  shot better than 40 percent from behind the arc during three of his five
  seasons with the Celtics, against defenses that knew it was smart to
  stop him from getting open looks.
  
• Allen didn't just win a title with the Celtics. He helped to
  restore greatness to the NBA's most successful franchise. When Allen and
  Garnett arrived in Boston, the Celtics hadn't won a title in 21 years.
  They won their 17th during the Big Three's first season.
  
• Allen claimed history with the Celtics, breaking the NBA's career
  3-point makes record with the team. He had so many big moments,
  including 51 points in a playoff game against the Bulls, the driving
  layup past Sasha Vujacic to help complete the wild comeback from 24
  points down in Game 4 of the 2008 NBA Finals, and seven (!) 3-pointers
  in the deciding Game 6 of that same Finals. He also drilled many
  game-winning or game-tying shots -- I could describe all of them but,
  sadly, I have other things to do later this week.
  
• Allen made three All-Star games during his five seasons
  with the Celtics. I would mention that he once scored 28 points in an
  All-Star game, but I'm not sure the criteria for getting a number
  retired should include "statistics recorded in the meaningless preseason
  exhibition of basketball's best players."
  

Cons

• Allen played only five years with the Celtics. No player's number
  has been retired in Boston after fewer than six years with the team. And
  the two who had six years with Boston both make better cases than
  Allen: Ed McCauley, one of Boston's very first superstars, made the
  All-NBA First Team three times during his six years with Boston. Reggie
  Lewis put together an impressive, albeit brief, career before passing
  away while playing basketball at Brandeis University. His retired number
  is sentiment as much as anything, but he likely would have had a
  Celtics career considerably longer than six years if he stayed alive.
  
• Allen only won one title. Within some franchises, that would be
  cause for annual reunions with dancing that lasts until 4 a.m. But every
  Celtics championship core before the Big Three had at least two titles.
  I'm not trying to insult everything the Big Three accomplished. They
  deserve plenty of kudos for restoring glory to the Celtics and for
  always seeming to play their best basketball in the playoffs. I'm just
  saying this: It's not like Allen's one ring sets him apart from any
  other Celtics great.
  
• In five years with the Celtics, Allen was never better than the
  third-best player when his teammates were all healthy. Once Rajon Rondo
  catapulted him (two or three years ago, maybe?), Allen became the
  fourth-best player. Last season, one could argue he was lower than that.
  

The verdict


No, Allen doesn't deserve his number retired. Even without taking
into account his latest beef with the entire Celtics organization (which
matters, since the organization decides whose numbers are retired and
all), Allen didn't do enough to justify having his jersey hang alongside
Larry Bird's and Bill Russell's (or JoJo White's, or Dennis Johnson's,
or anybody else's, for that matter) in the rafters.


In just five seasons, he would have had to put together a magnificent
Celtics career. Allen was great at times and contributed to the Celtics
return to relevance. He hit plenty of big shots and, even when he
became disgruntled, he never allowed it to challenge his focus or
determination. His jump shot -- and this is going to be long-winded, so
proceed with care --reminds me of the moment when you arrive at the
beach and you first see the waves crashing, when the sand softly
envelops your toes, the scent of the sea blasts into your nostrils, the
sun beams on your shoulders, and it’s vacation, and you have no
responsibilities, and everything is relaxed and good-natured and free,
and your family is with you and some of them are playing that bean-bag
toss game, corn hole, and others quickly tear off their shirts and
sprint into the ocean, which is cold and refreshing and salty and
gorgeous. Allen was very good for the Celtics. He just wasn't good
enough, in only five years, to warrant his number being retired.


Allen left on bad terms to the Celtics' rival for considerably less
than what the Celtics were offering, and has sent plenty of criticism
toward Boston since. But that ultimately shouldn't matter when the
Celtics make a decision whether to retire his number. Allen didn't do
enough on the court, anyway.







bob




.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4698194/rivers-let-ray-keep-talking


WALTHAM, Mass. -- Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers doesn't seem intent on
starting a war of words with old friend Ray Allen. Apprised of Allen's
recent comments, including a suggestion that the Celtics were poised to
trade Allen and Rajon Rondo to Phoenix as part of a 2009 blockbuster,
Rivers shrugged off the chatter after his team practiced on Wednesday.


"We’re going to just let Ray keep talking," Rivers said. "It’s easier.”



Allen has become more vocal in recent weeks about his departure from
Boston, including a radio appearance in Miami in which he suggested he
was "forced" out by the Celtics. Backlash from that interview left him
opening up to the Miami media in the days that followed.
From the Miami Herald:

Allen sat down for three separate one-on-one interviews
-- with The Miami Herald, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel and the Palm
Beach Post -- on Thursday to clear the air well before the season
opener. He said the friction with Rondo began in 2009 when Rivers and
Celtics president Danny Ainge proposed a trade that would have sent
Allen and Rondo to Phoenix for Amare Stoudemire, Leandro Barbosa and the
14th overall pick in the 2010 draft.Allen said that, at the time, Ainge and Rivers “didn’t get along” with Rondo.

“So I called him and I told him, ‘Hey they’re supposedly trading us
to Phoenix because you and Danny and Doc don’t get along,’ ” Allen said.
“ ‘So, whatever you can do.’

So, for some reason, I guess he thought that I was … that I had
something against him, or there were some issues. And I had no issues
with him. I won with him.”

So now, Allen says if Rondo “had issues with me, that’s on him.”

“I have a way of going about doing my job that, I want everyone to
come and play their hardest and come in and do their job and I can’t, I
don’t worry myself with things I can’t control,” Allen said.<blockquote>
</blockquote>

Asked about the potential Phoenix deal, Rivers said on Wednesday, "I
didn’t even know it, so I’m surprised right now. I never knew that. I
don’t think that’s true."


When asked for a rebuttal on Wednesday, Rondo, who has taken to not
referring to Allen by name this offseason, followed Rivers' cue.



"I don't know what happened or hear anything," Rondo said. "I just
stay focused and hit the gym. I didn't read any papers or see anything
on the news about No. 20."



The Celtics and Heat meet in the NBA's season opener on Tuesday in
Miami. That's the night the Heat will raise a championship banner and
Rivers admitted he's uncertain how he'll handle his team at that moment.
Will he keep them on the court for motivation? Or stash them in the
locker room to ignore it?



"I haven’t given it a lot of thought, I probably should," Rivers
said. "I’ve been dreading it. I haven’t even thought about what we’re
going to do. I’ll wait until -- it’s a [TNT] game, right? -- so I’ll
wait until they give us the exact timeline of the game, then figure out
what we’re going to do."




bob


.

I am getting tired of this endless news cycle about Ray Allen. The more quotes that come out of his mouth the worse it makes him look.

and I won't be cheering for him or hating my team.

Dboss

Ray Allen has said numerous times that being mentioned in trade talks wore on him and made him feel disrespected. Danny Ainge pretty much blew that up as an excuse for not coming back to the Celtics today when Danny said he offered Ray a no-trade clause in this contract. This article, btw, was written by Jackie Mac for ESPN.


http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/8552139/ray-allen-left-boston-celtics-no-trade-clause-table


In the end, not even a no-trade clause could prevent Ray Allen from leaving Boston to join the Miami Heat via free agency.

Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge
told ESPNBoston.com on Thursday that in addition to offering Allen
twice as much money (two years, $12 million) as Miami (two years, $6
million) to stay in Boston, he also added a no-trade clause to the
contract.

Ainge said he was aware of Allen's frustration at constantly being
mentioned in potential swaps during his time with the Celtics.


More from ESPN.com



Despite his departure and a recent war of words, Ray Allen says he'll always be a Celtic, Jackie MacMullan writes. Story






"I knew the (trade rumors) had been weighing on him," Ainge confirmed.

For his part, Allen mentioned several specific instances of proposed
deals he was included in, but there was no one reason that led to
Allen's change of heart about Boston. Rather, it was the cumulative
result of what he viewed as an erosion of his value to the team. The
no-trade clause wasn't enough, nor was the $6 million a year, which
would have left him as the fifth-highest paid Celtic behind Kevin Garnett, Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce and Jeff Green.
That, too, was a problem. Minutes were an issue, and so was his lack of
touches. Allen had lost faith in coach Doc Rivers, his old golfing
partner, who minimized his role in the offense.

When Allen decided to accept the Heat's offer, he called Ainge, texted Garnett and left town.

"Two years ago when I was a free agent, the whole organization sent
me a text asking me to come back," Allen said. "This time it was a
little more subdued."

This time, while Pierce and Garnett texted their support and Ainge
initiated the dialogue at the stroke of midnight, Rivers stayed out of
the negotiations. Their relationship, once strong, faltered in Allen's
final months wearing Celtic green.

"Doc never called and said, 'We want you to come back,'" Allen said.
"I can't say I expected him to do that. It's hard to say what the
protocol is in those situations."

As for the constant uncertainty regarding trades, Allen said, talks
began within months of his arrival in Boston. According to Allen, during
that 2007-08 season, which resulted in a championship for the Celtics,
Boston discussed a swap of Allen for Tracy McGrady.

"I got word of it through back channels," Allen said.

Two years later, he said, he got word that both he and Eddie House were on the block. House was the one to go, to the New York Knicks for Nate Robinson. There was the aforementioned dalliance with Phoenix in 2009, and then last season, Allen was nearly traded to Memphis for O.J. Mayo.

The team was in San Francisco on their West Coast swing when Allen
got a call from Ainge at around 12:15 p.m., the afternoon of the trade
deadline.

"Danny told me he had a deal on the table for me to go to Memphis for
O.J. Mayo and he asked me what I thought," Allen recalled. "I told him I
didn't like it. I told him I didn't want to leave Boston. He said, 'I
hope you understand my position.' I said, 'I know you have to build this
team for the future, but I'm not happy about it.'"

Allen called his family and instructed them to pack their things.
Instead, 45 minutes later Ainge called back to say the deal was off.

"I went to Paul's room and he said, 'Damn, I almost got traded to New
Jersey,' and I told him, 'I thought I did get traded to Memphis,"'
Allen said. "What could we do? We just laughed about it."

Ainge acknowledged Allen's version of events regarding talks with Memphis, but claimed Pierce "was never going to New Jersey."

"The Nets had a No. 3 pick and they talked to us for about 30 seconds about Paul," Ainge said. "It was never close."






bob






.

Bob,
Thanks for the article.
I believe that the no-trade clause has been mentioned back in July.

All in all, I think, the only loosing party in this deal is RA. Celtics got younger, faster, better on defense Lee. Heat didn't loose much: if RA's 3-pt shooting doesn't pan out they can always fall back to Jones and Miller. RA didn't get starting role, get less money, will get less PT, lost picture perfect PG who worked for him more than anyone else on the floor. The only positive thing he's got is much better probability to win one more ring.
As I said before, I believe that RA regretted his departure to Miami the moment he announced the decision.

AK

I saw that interview with Jackie MacMullen. the one thing you didn't have in that article is the fact that while she was talking to Ray there was quite a bit of sadness about him, that the decision may have been one he regrets a little. I think the way he keeps talking, he knows that Boston should have been the place where he ended his career. Unfortunately for him, it won't happen that way.

Rosalie

Agree

He did seem a bit reserved didn't he. So if indeed he regrets this..... what can he say now? Certainly can't say he wished he's never left now. Just wonder if there is some crazy way that after his contract with the heat is up he could sign 1 last year here for peanuts perhaps even play a little and then retire. Just a thought. Yeah I might be crazy.

Really with all you have heard from him.... it's almost like he's trying to convince himself that he made the right move but the stark realization that he didn't is slapping him right across the face.

Oh well .............. it is what it is.

beat

I thought I read somewhere where he has an op-out after his first year in Miami? May have read it wrong, but I don't think so. There has been so much printed that it almost is ridiculous to justify ALL of his statements. Even ESPN says that his interviews are a bit confusing. This is very sad to me, but, never say never. The Celtics are big on tradition, so, who knows what could happen. If only he would just stop talking.

Rosalie