Sources: Clippers, Celtics discussing Kevin Garnett trade

I cannot wait for the trade deadline to come. All these know it all writers are dying for their BIG story to write about. I can hear the headlines now. It all just turns my stomach. You know, I am beginning to appreciate a little more wh y Ray got so upset. I wonder what will happen with Paul if he goes somewhere else next year. Maybe Miami would dump a bunch of salaries and sign him? Ha Ha. February21 cannot come soon enough for me.

Here we are, talking about the heart and soul of the Celtics for the last 6 years, a guy who is still playing at a high level, we begged to come back and now talk of trading him????? Stupid talk as far as I am concerned.
You might as well trade Pierce, Green and Rondo too. This is crazy.

Clippers, Jazz Discussing Bledsoe For Millsap Deal
Feb 17, 2013 11:02 AM EST


The Los Angeles Clippers and Utah Jazz are discussing a trade centered on Eric Bledsoe for Paul Millsap.

Bledsoe is the Clippers' best asset to be moved, though two sources with knowledge of the team's thinking predicted he would not be moved.

Millsap will be a free agent this offseason and the Jazz want to build around a younger core.

Via Ramona Shelburne, Marc Stein/ESPN

112288

112288 wrote:Clippers, Jazz Discussing Bledsoe For Millsap Deal
Feb 17, 2013 11:02 AM EST


The Los Angeles Clippers and Utah Jazz are discussing a trade centered on Eric Bledsoe for Paul Millsap.

Bledsoe is the Clippers' best asset to be moved, though two sources with knowledge of the team's thinking predicted he would not be moved.

Millsap will be a free agent this offseason and the Jazz want to build around a younger core.

Via Ramona Shelburne, Marc Stein/ESPN

112288

112288,


"Build around a younger core"? Millsap's 28?


Build around a cheaper core, more like it...


bob


.

To make the salaries work Utah would have to take on another player with about a $8 million salary. Lamar's O'Doms expiring contract fills the bill.
Swish

swish wrote:To make the salaries work Utah would have to take on another player with about a $8 million salary. Lamar's O'Doms expiring contract fills the bill.
Swish

swish,

If the Clips want to win this year I'd say giving up their backup point guard and perhaps the most versatile player on their team would NOT be recommended.


I think, though, that your point about salaries is well made though. Like most of these rumors, once you start looking closer at them and what each team would have to give up to make them happen, they start to look ludicrous.

bob


.

I have several comments to make here.

I very much agree with Kleen's reference to projected production of a player. That is a statistic that is presumptuous. I do know that each and every player in the NBA has a MUOP. I may have previously introduced this concept to board in the past. Simply put MUOP means Marginal Unitility Of Production. It reflects the fact that every player reaches a point on average where additonal minutes played results in an ever decreasing utility value as it relates to their productivity on the court.

In the case of Jordan, we have a 5 year history on him. I have many times been hoodwinked by thinking that these great athletes are going to be great players. The fact is that we do not know how he would perform playing say 36 MPG. We do know that his free throw shooting is unlikely to show much improvement and we also know that he just does not have a go to move. He scores off of offensive rebounds and alleyopps. I can hear Boston fans now complaining about why he does not average 10 boards a game...afterall look at how high he can jump.

I think he could defeinitely help Boston but there is no way that I trade KG to get him and another midget guard that has yet to prove that he has the intellect or the skills to run an offense.

If we are going to trade KG it needs to be for another big (I'd take Howard)

I also agree with Kleen about Avery Bradley. yes there were other factors that have led to the Celtics's imnproved play but Avery has been the catalyst for them reestablishing a defensive presence. This is a fact becasue Doc and several of the palyers have already said that. When you are the best at something in the NBA you are going to have an important impact and Bradley is thye best on the ball defender in the NBA. he's a beast!

Cow Perhaps it does sound cold when I am ready to throw paul pierce out the door after all that he has done for this team. There is no doubt that he has been a great player. I do not see an immediate replacement for his skills. Despite what Jeff Green bring to the table, Paul has the same set of skills as kobe, lebron, Durant, Carmello. The problem is that those skills have deteriorated and if we look closer at what happend last year in the playoffs we would conclude that he simply ran out of gas. He shot .386 from the field during the playoffs last year and I think some of that has carried over to this year as he is shooting .415% these are signs of the times. So I think we should move him at the best opportunity. I do not believe that he has teh capacity to tkae us deep into the playoffs.

I would not move him this year unless the player we get will be utilized to complete the rebuilding project. I think we have a great core of players to move forward with minus Paul Pierce.

dboss

dboss

Your right about using 36 minutes as a predictor of the future. But it is accurrate at portraying a players perfomance based on minutes played. In Jordans case his rebounding numbers are very good based on MINUTES PLAYED. The 36 minute formula is simply a computer short cut to save the time of manually having to to do the math for each individual player to get his rebound per minute rate. It's my opinion that a per minute rating is more accurate than a per game rating when it comes to evaluating a skill such as rebounding and scoring.
Swish

dboss wrote:I have several comments to make here.

I very much agree with Kleen's reference to projected production of a player. That is a statistic that is presumptuous. I do know that each and every player in the NBA has a MUOP. I may have previously introduced this concept to board in the past. Simply put MUOP means Marginal Unitility Of Production. It reflects the fact that every player reaches a point on average where additonal minutes played results in an ever decreasing utility value as it relates to their productivity on the court.

In the case of Jordan, we have a 5 year history on him. I have many times been hoodwinked by thinking that these great athletes are going to be great players. The fact is that we do not know how he would perform playing say 36 MPG. We do know that his free throw shooting is unlikely to show much improvement and we also know that he just does not have a go to move. He scores off of offensive rebounds and alleyopps. I can hear Boston fans now complaining about why he does not average 10 boards a game...afterall look at how high he can jump.

I think he could defeinitely help Boston but there is no way that I trade KG to get him and another midget guard that has yet to prove that he has the intellect or the skills to run an offense.

If we are going to trade KG it needs to be for another big (I'd take Howard)

I also agree with Kleen about Avery Bradley. yes there were other factors that have led to the Celtics's imnproved play but Avery has been the catalyst for them reestablishing a defensive presence. This is a fact becasue Doc and several of the palyers have already said that. When you are the best at something in the NBA you are going to have an important impact and Bradley is thye best on the ball defender in the NBA. he's a beast!

Cow Perhaps it does sound cold when I am ready to throw paul pierce out the door after all that he has done for this team. There is no doubt that he has been a great player. I do not see an immediate replacement for his skills. Despite what Jeff Green bring to the table, Paul has the same set of skills as kobe, lebron, Durant, Carmello. The problem is that those skills have deteriorated and if we look closer at what happend last year in the playoffs we would conclude that he simply ran out of gas. He shot .386 from the field during the playoffs last year and I think some of that has carried over to this year as he is shooting .415% these are signs of the times. So I think we should move him at the best opportunity. I do not believe that he has teh capacity to tkae us deep into the playoffs.

I would not move him this year unless the player we get will be utilized to complete the rebuilding project. I think we have a great core of players to move forward with minus Paul Pierce.

dboss

Well Said.

KG at 35 is a much better player than Jordan at 25. And Bradley is better than Bledsoe. So I see this deal as a step backwards for the team. Getting younger AND better is one thing. Getting younger for the sake of getting younger, no thanks.

Amen on the value of the 36-minutes filter, Swish. That statistic presents a context within which the playing field is level. However, I have been known to mutter to myself, "That guy could never last 36 minutes in a game." LOL.

Sam

Mrkleen,

your comment about youth versus quality raises a more general point, which might be fodder for a discussion during the doldrums of some August.

Which is more valuable? A cagey veteran who's a bit past his prime or a young Turk who's somewhat undisciplined and not yet in his prime? I'm sure part of the answer would be that it depends on the team. But I believe there's more to it than that.

See me in August.

Sam

sam wrote:Mrkleen,

your comment about youth versus quality raises a more general point, which might be fodder for a discussion during the doldrums of some August.

Which is more valuable? A cagey veteran who's a bit past his prime or a young Turk who's somewhat undisciplined and not yet in his prime? I'm sure part of the answer would be that it depends on the team. But I believe there's more to it than that.

See me in August.

Sam

Sam - IMO as long as we are discussing potential trades, and using the idea that Bledsoe and Jordan are young - as their main selling point, then I would say the age vs experience is very germane to this discussion - be it February or August.

Bledsoe may well be too young to truly judge - but in the case of Jordan - there is sufficient sample size to say - what you see it what you get.

mrkleen09 wrote:

dboss wrote:I have several comments to make here.

I very much agree with Kleen's reference to projected production of a player. That is a statistic that is presumptuous. I do know that each and every player in the NBA has a MUOP. I may have previously introduced this concept to board in the past. Simply put MUOP means Marginal Unitility Of Production. It reflects the fact that every player reaches a point on average where additonal minutes played results in an ever decreasing utility value as it relates to their productivity on the court.

In the case of Jordan, we have a 5 year history on him. I have many times been hoodwinked by thinking that these great athletes are going to be great players. The fact is that we do not know how he would perform playing say 36 MPG. We do know that his free throw shooting is unlikely to show much improvement and we also know that he just does not have a go to move. He scores off of offensive rebounds and alleyopps. I can hear Boston fans now complaining about why he does not average 10 boards a game...afterall look at how high he can jump.

I think he could defeinitely help Boston but there is no way that I trade KG to get him and another midget guard that has yet to prove that he has the intellect or the skills to run an offense.

If we are going to trade KG it needs to be for another big (I'd take Howard)

I also agree with Kleen about Avery Bradley. yes there were other factors that have led to the Celtics's imnproved play but Avery has been the catalyst for them reestablishing a defensive presence. This is a fact becasue Doc and several of the palyers have already said that. When you are the best at something in the NBA you are going to have an important impact and Bradley is thye best on the ball defender in the NBA. he's a beast!

Cow Perhaps it does sound cold when I am ready to throw paul pierce out the door after all that he has done for this team. There is no doubt that he has been a great player. I do not see an immediate replacement for his skills. Despite what Jeff Green bring to the table, Paul has the same set of skills as kobe, lebron, Durant, Carmello. The problem is that those skills have deteriorated and if we look closer at what happend last year in the playoffs we would conclude that he simply ran out of gas. He shot .386 from the field during the playoffs last year and I think some of that has carried over to this year as he is shooting .415% these are signs of the times. So I think we should move him at the best opportunity. I do not believe that he has teh capacity to tkae us deep into the playoffs.

I would not move him this year unless the player we get will be utilized to complete the rebuilding project. I think we have a great core of players to move forward with minus Paul Pierce.

dboss

Well Said.

KG at 35 is a much better player than Jordan at 25. And Bradley is better than Bledsoe. So I see this deal as a step backwards for the team. Getting younger AND better is one thing. Getting younger for the sake of getting younger, no thanks.

Kleen agree with your point that KG at 36 is better than Jordan right now at 24 and could be better next year too, thats not why you do the trade, you do the trade based on where both players will be 3-4 years down the road. Avery Bradley we love, its not about whos better, we still will have AB and he will further develop, its that Bledsoe is also a dynamic young piece that can help the backcourt going forward.

I think there's a decent chance that KG already accidentially let the cat put of the bag last week when he said this is going to be his last all-star game and then when questioned about that statement, he said "you don't know what I know". That sounds like a player that might already know he is retiring after the season. If KG is going to retire why would he waive his no trade clause? Finish out the year with the players, coach and organization that means so much to him.