Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by dboss on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:14 pm

There appears to be a measure of revisionist history going on here.

The Perk trade was not a good decision, at the time, because it disrupted the team chemistry.

Do we not remember Rivers coming out and stating that after the fact because I do.

Do we not remember the reaction of his teammates?

Do we also not remember that the Celtics had some concerns over his upcoming free agency and the cost of retaining his services?

Do we not remember that after sweeping the Knicks in 4 games we were demolished in 5 by the Miami Heat because we lost our toughness? Was this only because Rondo was hurt? Because I remember the Celtics getting hammered in the post all series long.

Do we not remember players statements from other teams saying that the Celtics lost their edge without Perkins?

Do we not remember that krystic came in and seemed to play well at first but quickly morphed back into the European marshmellow that he always was?

Jeff Green is playing great right now but it was only a few weeks ago where his play was being questioned and rightfully so. Take away Jeff's play the last month or so and I am not so sure that the Perk trade would be made if you consider that DA would know it would negatively impact the team and that his (Green) mid season addition would do nothing to help us beat Miami that year and the following year Jeff would miss an entire season because of a life threatening heart problem.

I do not have a problem with the Perkins trade. My only criticism of Danny is that after two years he still has not added a center to replace him. And as a result we are quickly draining what is left of KG. Just about everyone on this forum has acknowledged the need to add a center. This has been going on since Perkins was traded.

Those 9 OT games have taken there toll on the Celtics. Particularly Paul Pierce and KG.

Maybe the new kid on the block, DJ White will help fill this void.

In essence, the Perkins trade cannot be a good decision until the Celtics replace him.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:33 pm

What pissed me off was how soft we were vs Heat in that series which we still could have won if Dwayne Wade doesn't mangle and twist Rondos arm off. Losing Perks mean game directly affected us that year, its just so obvious that wasn't the Celtics that playoff year, that wasn't our team without Perks grinding toughness.

Right now Jeff Green looks great and is playing the best ball of his career both ends, he is a great building block for the future.....but we had the Heat in 11, we had their number and they knew it.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by worcester on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:36 pm

Cow, you're so right. With Perk and a healthy Rondo we would have iced the Heat in '11. Wade's mangling of Rondo was criminal IMHO.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by dboss on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:52 pm

Jeff was a pretty damn good playing with OKC. Even though he was probably their 4th option behind Durant, Westbrook and Harden.

Now we ned to find out if he is our go to guy.

We need to see how he will be used in our end of game situations. Will the Celtics still lean on PP (who has made some fantastic late game shots this year) or will they isolate Jeff and look for him to make the shot.

How long will it be before Jeff makes his way to the starting lineup?

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by dboss on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:34 pm

I feel confident that the Celtics will definitely make the playoffs. The only question that I have is where will they finish. There is a 5 game spread between 2-7 and both the Knicks and Bulls have been slipping as of late.

I do not think that any team out there wants to go up against Boston in the playoffs. Since a 5 game spread is small we could end up playing any number of teams including Indiana, NY, Chicago, Atlanta, Crooklyn....

None of those teams scare me with the exception of Chicago because Chicago is a really good defensive team. If you cannot play at least .500 on the road you are not going to do well in the playoffs. That is why I hoped to see the Celtics finish off the current trip with at least a 3-2 record. Right now we need to win the next two games to meet that threshold.

Here is the good thing: Boston has beaten Miami, Indiana, NY, Crooklyn, Chicago, Atlanta, and Milwaukee...all teams currently in the playoffs.

In the west we have knocked off , OKC, LA Clippers, Denver, Houston, and Utah. We lost to Memphis and Golden State and have a chance at redemption in our next meeting. The only playoff team that has beaten us soundly twice is SA.

This record is very significant in the context of a team that has been playing slightly better than .500 ball. It prooves that the Celtics are more than capable of beating any playoff team except for SA and even SA is debatable.

Most interesting thing about this is that I did not mention the Lakers. If I was a betting man I would say that LA will make the playoffs and could knock off SA in a first round matchup but they have no chance if they have to face OKC because they have NO one to check Durant or Westbrook.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by swish on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:36 pm

dboss

Do you not remember how great the Celts were that year with Shaq at the center position?

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by dboss on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:43 pm

Oh yea Swish I remember one playoff game where he tweaked something and left the court never to be seen from again. By the time the Celtics had Shaq he was a pathetic remnant of his former self.

The same could be said for his distant cousin, Jermaine O'Neal.

I hope that we do not have to witness Paul Pierce becoming a pathetic over the hill player. I hope that he will know when to hang it up and not embarass himself. He has been a truly great player for a very long time and Doc needs to help him transition into a new role as his career winds down.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by sam on Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:47 pm

Thanks, Mulcogi. How are you doing these days?

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by mrkleen09 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:48 pm

You cannot separate the Perk Trade from the then and now. There is only a now (with Jeff Green), because of the then (losing Perk) - you cannot have it both ways. Either you want your GM to make a move when a game changer like Jeff Green becomes available - or you dont.

As for the assertion that Jeff Green playing well is a new thing - maybe we should introduce a few facts to help reframe the augment.

Less than a year ago - Jeff Green was on an operating table, with his chest open - undergoing very very serious surgery. Being young and fit certainly helped his recovery, but unlike any of us - he didnt just need to go from operating room back to his desk job (or the beach in some retirement community) he had to get back to world class athlete status.

Add to that, the irregularity of his role on this team - and the fact that in a slow down offense (which is what this team was running for most of the first half of the season) - Jeff basically checked in and was responsible to stand in the corner and hit random 3 point shots.

The last few weeks is the first time that he is truly getting enough minutes, and playing in an offense where he is given free reign to do what he does best - break down his defender and beat him with his athleticism.

Basically Doc is finally using Jeff as he is best suited AND Jeff is finally back in shape and confident that his body is back to where he was in his OKC days. Anything that happened before the last month - has to be tempered with an * as we are only now seeing the player that Danny envisioned when he made the deal.

In 5 years, Perk will be out of the NBA and when he visits Boston he will get a hero's welcome. He will also get to witness Jeff Green - scoring and rebounding and leading the team as DA has envisioned it.

Anytime you get a chance to sign a game changer. You do it. Sorry for the Perk fans out there, but this will go down as a very good trade and Jeff Green (along with Rondo and Sully) will form the foundation of the next generation of great Celtics teams.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:33 pm

swish

I remember the healthy Shaq well, guy embraced being a role player, was great watching him and KG play together. I so wish we could have gotten Shaq one year earlier, he had so much respect for KG and Pierce, if we would have went as hard at Shaq as we did with Sheed a year earlier we could have had him....my favorite game of that year was beating Lakers as Perk just got back and team looked great with Shaq, KG and Perk all contributing. If we could have started the playoffs that day we would have gotten no 18.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by sam on Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:36 pm

Mrkleen,

I hope you're right about the rebounding part. Jeff is certainly conscious of the need for improvement in that area; and I imagine he experiences a little tug of war when an opponent's shot goes up—to crash the boards or hustle downcourt.

I must admit to cringing whenever he hits the floor. I know many people who have undergone open-heart surgery, and I'm in contact with the Cleveland Clinic almost weekly in order to keep up with latest techniques because an aortic valve replacement will be in my not-too-distant future. And, for Jeff to be part of the rigors of the NBA—to say nothing of excelling—is more of a feat than many people realize.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by dboss on Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:26 pm

Kleen

I have to agree that this will go down as a good trade for Boston if you choose to frame it that way.

There can be no logical conclusion to the contrary. But until we add a bonifide center that trade will continue to spark debate on how it may have impacted the team over the past two years.

We have yet to find a replacement for Perk. If and when we do that there will be no reason to debate the merits of the trade. This does not diminsh Jeff's value to the Celtics.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by swish on Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:37 pm

Cow

I have some great memories of Shaq during the 2010-11 season. He was just what the team needed for a low post game. His physical presence was sure missed in the playoffs. Agree with you on what he could have meant to the team had he played for the Celts in 2009-10. Based on his numbers for that year his impack on the Celtics would have been even greater in 2009-10. Oh well ! Win some, lose some.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by cowens/oldschool on Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:05 pm

swish

Even for those 20-25 minutes a game he was on the floor with KG, Pierce, Ray and Rondo, we were unbeatable. He made the game easy and open up by his inside presence, you still couldn't leave him or in an instant a pass to the rim and dunk!!! On defense he could still hurt you with all that size, him and KG were even better than Perk and KG.....why we ever went after Sheed?

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by swish on Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:36 pm

Cow

I still cringe when I recall some of those sudden stops for opposing players when they drove into the low post area. Hey, 325lbs will do that to you.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by mrkleen09 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:48 pm

dboss wrote: Kleen

I have to agree that this will go down as a good trade for Boston if you choose to frame it that way.

There can be no logical conclusion to the contrary. But until we add a bonifide center that trade will continue to spark debate on how it may have impacted the team over the past two years.

We have yet to find a replacement for Perk. If and when we do that there will be no reason to debate the merits of the trade. This does not diminsh Jeff's value to the Celtics.

Dboss

Totally agree. But how many good defensive centers are there in the NBA. You might well find a needle in a haystack easier. In addition, Perk is a great example of decent player - who was made better by playing alongside the veterans. Since he went to OKC he has brought a professional attitude which has helped them, but from an individual stand point - Perk is a shadow of what he was here.



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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by dboss on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:20 pm

Kleen

And I totally agree with you as well.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by RosalieTCeltics on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:38 pm

Swish-I will second Sam's thoughts on your postings. It is always good to hear from you, sometimes we who are on here alot get kind of "stuck" on a subject, player, etc. Do what you can, but always just drop us a quick post so we can hear your thoughts. As for me getting around gets harder and harder. I do not drive (never have), and my husband doesn't drive too much at night at all any more.

You have proven over and over what a great Celtic fan you are!!

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by cowens/oldschool on Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:18 am

kleen

I beg to differ, Perk individually here was about the same, hes a role player that can make a big difference on the defensive end. Hes still grinding and contributing his role....remember their defense pre Perk and that team still had Ibaka and Collison.

On Jeff Green, love the way hes been playing lately, his shot was off tonite. I'm rooting for him and going forward hope he can fill Pierces role, but lets see him avg 20 a game first and make an all star team, cause right now he is a better athlete than Pierce, but still can't carry his jockstrap. Pierce showed he had the balls and moxie to be a primary first scoring option as a rookie, never seen Jeff do that yet, he is improving hope he gets there.

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Re: Ainge's Goal: Get to the Playoffs

Post by mulcogiseng on Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:51 am

kind of hard to be the primary scoring option on a team with KD and RW, oh, and I don't think he would want to Embarassed

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