Sources: Clips-Celts deal unlikely

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9407652/nba-unlikely-approve-moves-involving-boston-celtics-los-angeles-clippers-sources


Stern On Clippers-Celtics Talks

The proposed trade of Kevin Garnett to the Los Angeles Clippers and corresponding transaction that would transport Doc Rivers from the Boston Celtics' bench to L.A.'s are unlikely to be approved by the league office, according to sources close to the process.

Sources told ESPN.com on Thursday that league officials have communicated to both teams that they have serious misgivings about the proposed transactions because Garnett and Rivers have been shopped by the Celtics as a package deal, which would violate NBA rules prohibiting contingencies or sides deals in any trade.

The Celtics and Clippers, sources said, were searching Thursday afternoon for new deal constructions to alleviate the league's reservations about L.A.'s intent to trade young center DeAndre Jordan for Garnett and separately send two first-round picks to Boston as compensation for Rivers' coaching rights. But it was not immediately clear if they could successfully come up with a new structure that NBA commissioner David Stern would sanction./p

In the wake of an ESPN.com report Thursday morning regarding the NBA's concerns, Stern appeared on both "The Herd" on ESPN Radio and ESPN Radio New York and confirmed that the prospect of the Celtics and Clippers trying to submit the deals for Garnett and Rivers as separate transactions would not be permissible under league bylaws.

The NBA is looking into the legality of the proposed Clippers-Celtics swaps. Should coaches be allowed to be traded? Is Doc Rivers worth it?

"I would say that if we know that what the parties really wanted to do is one [trade] and they're going to break it into two for the purposes of trying to avoid the restrictions that the collective bargaining agreement places on it, we know how to deal with that as well," Stern told ESPN Radio's Colin Cowherd.

In a subsequent interview with ESPN New York's Stephen A. Smith and Ryan Ruocco on 98.7 FM, when asked why the league wouldn't regard the two deals as separate, Stern said: "If you think those [deals], at this point having been all over the media for the last week, are separate transactions, when you get back from Miami, Stephen A., I have a bridge that I would very much enjoy selling to you."

The teams awoke Thursday, sources said, seemingly close to an agreement on two transactions that would land Garnett and Rivers in Los Angeles. The first was a proposed one-for-one player swap sending Jordan for Garnett, who would then waive his no-trade clause to clinch the deal. The second move called for the Clippers to convey two first-round picks to Boston as compensation for the Celtics agreeing to let Rivers out of the three years and $21 million left on his contract.

League rules not only prohibit coaches from being formally "traded" but likewise prevent teams from making any trade or free-agent signing with contingencies or side deals attached. So it would be incumbent on the Celtics and Clippers to convince the league office that these transactions would be made independently. Yet one source with knowledge of the talks told ESPN.com that the Celtics and Clippers have been negotiating for days well aware that league rules would likely prohibit the transactions from going through.

Sources said Thursday that one new scenario discussed by the teams, in trying to come up with alternative trade constructions, would call for the Celtics to simply release Rivers from his contract while the Clippers added draft picks or other considerations to the Jordan-for-Garnett swap. Stern's comments, though, would appear to leave little wiggle room./p

"The teams -- how shall I say this? -- the teams know that," Stern told "The Herd."

112288

NOW WHAT?

All I can say is both teams are @*#^ED UP.                BOB H. Good Call!

First both teams should have known entering this deal talk/structure and making it public last week that it violated the CBO and they continued to  discuss this deal, for one -  both teams legal council should be fired to allow it to continue and/or,

second Danny Ainge, Celtic Management and their counterparts on the Clippers are ASS HOLES for allowing it to proceed and therefore allowing it to go public and put the players in an uncomfortable position, and destroying fans confidence in both teams.

It appears that the NBA & Stern got involved later on ...meaning Monday or Tuesday.......and warned both teams..........but both the Clippers and Celtics still talked, walked away, then came back again to restart the talks............are both teams management on drugs!  What the #@&* is going on!

Unless they got some magical formula structure that they know will work...............I've lost a lot of respect for the Celtics organization.  WYC........I though you were a lot smarter then this.........I guess you are not as bright as I thought.......pays to have a father worth $$$ hundreds of millions and access to become a hedge fund operator....certainly it shows that you did not have the trading smarts!

112288

One if the reports said that they would have to restart negotiations and add players, etc to the deal.  How could this make it legal??? Contracts still have to match, right? I asked on another thread, has something like this ever been done before? I thought I had read that a few years ago it happened. 

I really can understand where the league is coming from in one sense because something like can lead to many problems down the road with other teams and other coaches. 

You can feel like you do about the Celtics organization, and I don't blame you, but I also come from a time when a man's word was his bond. So, Doc has alot of blame in this game too.  The main thing is it should never have gotten so public because no one will win here.  Respect is earned. When you do something like this, you throw away all you have earned.

Danny should have known better. Why they kept up negotiating after being told it was illegal is beyond me.  

There is alot more to come here, just don't hold your breath while you are waiting.


Rosalie

P.S.  I will agree, respect is earned on all levels, ownership, management, coaches, players. Everyone is to blame here

Rosalie,

I agree with you completely especially Doc. All he had to do was go about his business like nothing is wrong...keep his mouth shut and pretend..............while quietly allowing Danny and the Clippers go about their business.............BUT OH NO!

Doc has to make this a soap opera........maybe ...could be....unsure.......who knows....we'll see ..........DOC HAS A NEW NAME....THE DRAMA QUEEN!

You know...I got tired of Doc...Oh shucks ....I don't knew anything type of talk about the team or injuries........I knew he was lying through his teeth.............but I know when it came to that area of tell the truth he was just protecting his team and players.............
but never would I think he would use the same old happy horse @hit bull @hit with the fans!

112288

112288 wrote:Rosalie,

I agree with you completely especially Doc. All he had to do was go about his business like nothing is wrong...keep his mouth shut and pretend..............while quietly allowing Danny and the Clippers go about their business.............BUT OH NO!

Doc has to make this a soap opera........maybe ...could be....unsure.......who knows....we'll see ..........DOC HAS A NEW NAME....THE DRAMA QUEEN!

You know...I got tired of Doc...Oh shucks ....I don't knew anything type of talk about the team or injuries........I knew he was lying through his teeth.............but I know when it came to that area of tell the truth he was just protecting his team and players.............
but never would I think he would use the same old happy horse @hit bull @hit with the fans!

Did I miss something? When was Doc not keeping his mouth shut about this? How did he make it a soap opera?

I haven't seen any information that he's the one who leaked information about the deal.

Outside

Obvious..........he gave no firm commitment if he would be back!

He kept jerking everyone around which allowed rumors to begin spreading that there was a problem with him staying ...............As Gordon Gekko once said...............

Keep it quiet...................use the off shore accounts.........

another quote that would fit how Danny must feel..............

When I get a hold of the son of a bitch who leaked this, I'm gonna tear his eyeballs out and I'm gonna suck his @&cking skull. 

DANNY YOU NEED NOT LOOK ANY FURTHER THEN DOC RIVERS WITH WHAT HE DID NOT SAY...............I'M STILL LOOKING FORWARD TO COACHING THE CELTICS!

Then everyone should have gone about their business to get the deal done quietly!


112288

I guess we have different opinions about that.

So, the deal isn't big enough for Stern?  Ok, let's see who else we can move...



http://www.csnne.com/blog/celtics-talk/sources-celtics-clippers-need-revamp-deal


Sources: Celtics-Clippers need to revamp deal

June 20, 2013, 5:00 pm








The proposed trade between the Celtics and the Clippers will in all likelihood have to be expanded to include more players, picks or a combination of the two in order to get league approval.
 (AP Photo)



MIAMI — The proposed trade between the Celtics and the Clippers will in all likelihood have to be expanded to include more players, picks or a combination of the two in order to get league approval, sources told CSNNE.com.

NBA Commissioner David Stern, on the eve of Game 7 of The Finals, spoke with several media outlets and indicated that the deal between the two teams as it has been constructed would be a violation of the league's Collective Bargaining Agreement and thus would not get league approval.

And the idea of breaking up the deal into two separate ones?

Yeah, Stern has thought of that, and that would get shot down just as if it were one big deal.

"If you think those, at this point -- having been all over the media for the last week -- are separate transactions . . . I have a bridge that I would very much enjoy selling to you," Stern said on ESPN Radio New York.

Stern added that both teams have been made aware of the league's concerns over their proposed trades.

Rivers has three years and $21 million due to him, but coaches' salaries are not subject to the CBA's salary cap rules. Because of that, it can't be included as part of a trade package. And while the C's can get compensation for allowing Rivers out of the remaining years of his contract, the league frowns upon what it perceives as "side deals."

From the league's perspective, a Kevin Garnett-for-DeAndre Jordan trade and Rivers being allowed out of his contract can not be viewed as two separate transactions.

While neither side is ready to walk away from trade talks, the longer this goes on the less likely a deal will be struck. 

The Clippers have made it clear that they don't want to take on the contracts of Jason Terry or Courtney Lee, two players that the C's have made available to them. 

Boston has a handful of players that they could include in a deal, among them Paul Pierce, whose contract becomes fully guaranteed if he is not bought out for $5 million by June 30.

The Celtics have been exploring trade possibilities involving Pierce, but a league source tells CSNNE.com that the C's have been reluctant to part with any of their other higher-salaried players -- for now at least -- like Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green and to a lesser extent, Brandon Bass.



bob


.

Ok, now this is getting really stupid.

The Clippers want to do Doc first, but won't offer compensation for him.  This is per Adrian W and Blakeley.

So, they were willing to give Jordan and 2 first round picks for KG, and nothing for Rivers?

They think Danny's just going to say "ok, Doc, you can go coach somewhere else, we'll just tear up your contract"?

And they don't think CP3 isn't going to have a problem with all this?

Sterling is an idiot (my apologies to idiots everywhere for the comparison).


bob


.

Per Gary Washburn, Globe:

Gary Washburn: #celtics want 1) salary cap relief, 2) younger players, 3) draft picks. Ainge does not like this draft.
Read more at http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#T5vw1BSGM5Rqf0op.99 




bob


.

Bob

how does adding more players or picks make the trade ok?

to everyone else...information will get leaked

Doc Rivers apparently already negotiated a contract with the Clippers.  I read that.  Does not make it true but I read that.  and it is logicsl because he would need to know what his compensation would be before any trade was made.

112288

you are on point with respect to how both teams handled this thus far.  Any potential move must first be tested using the provisions of the CBA. 

Both teams and the league need to come up with a way to get a deal done.  There is more harm in not getting it done for both teams.  Rivers cannot comeback and be effective and will not be able to handle the backlash, KG is left floating in the wind, Paul may up and leave the inept Clippers thus killing thier short lived status as a contender. 

Nothing good can be gained from killing this deal.

dboss

Bob i did not mean that you were the source of that statement...i agree with you completely

So......Sterling just thinks Danny will let Doc walk for nothing?  What a nut he really is.  I am wondering why Paul wants to play for him, he obviously has no basketball sense, why stay? Just to play with Griffin?  If I were him I would get as far away from this guy as possible. I cannot imagine that Doc wants to leave the Boston Celtics to coach this team and work for that jerk!

Rosalie

First, I'd like to say this: David Stern is a power hungry little Nazi. He likes putting his grubby fingers where they don't belong.

All BOS-LAC have to do is arrange the deal differently to fit the CBA. That shouldn't be hard.

Let's get this done nowwww.

Let's start with what we know.

1.  We know Donald Sterling is a cheap bastard.
2.  We know Donald Sterling is an idiot who does not know what it takes to win.
3.  We know you cannot trade a coach.
4.  We know that is precisely what Boston and LA have been trying to do.

So, now the Clippers want Doc, but won't give compensation.  How much of this is posturing (i.e. "if we say we don't want to give something for Doc then maybe The Dictator will forget that is precisely what we've been working on for the past 2 weeks") and how much of it is just rank stupidity and incompetence?  Any other franchise I'd say the former.  Donald Sterling's club?  50-50 at best, maybe even tilting towards the latter.

Doc may end up going into broadcasting but Danny will not give up a valued asset to another team, and Doc is obviously considered that by the Celtics and the Clippers, without getting something for it.

Would you do a "gentleman's agreement" with Donald Sterling, where you release Doc from his contract first, free and clear, let him sign with LAC and then execute a "pre-negotiated but unannounced" separate deal for KG and trust Sterling to keep his word and follow through on it?  I wouldn't.  I'd sooner french kiss a rattler.

How does this get done?

Well, CP3 could say to Clips management "you WILL follow through on the backend of the deal or I will walk and I will NOT re-sign with you until AFTER the league approves it". That would fix the "Donald Sterling is pond scum" problem but it doesn't guarantee the league approves it and then we would have given up Doc for nothing and stay or go he's worth more than nothing.  There is NO value in just releasing him, in my mind.  Let him walk away from his salary and do broadcasting, if he really wants out, but don't just "waive him" so he can be picked up by another team any more than you'd waive a player who has game but doesn't want to be in Boston anymore.

How about they do the deal for KG, it gets approved by the league and then Danny just releases Doc and lets him go wherever he wants?  That would be better but LAC is saying they want to do Doc first.  Why?  See text paragraph 1 above, especially the latter reason.  Besides, if these two events happen relatively close to each other the league might just void the trade retroactively (see #3 above).

dboss, I think the reason why Stern wants more players is because as it stands, from the league's eyes, it's KG for Jordan and 2 draft picks.  That's pretty rich for an old guy, therefore there's something else going on.  However, if a few more bodies are involved then the differences get less focused.  For example, suppose it was KG plus JET for Jordan and 2 picks (which is what Danny has been trying for).  Now it doesn't look as lopsided.  Suppose it was KG plus JET plus Bradley for Jordan, Bledsoe and 2 picks.  It gets harder to see a clear winner, since there are a number of players that bring value into the deal and smudges the line a bit.

I agree with you and the Clips and Paul.  He has got to be really wondering whether that organization is a one he wants to stay with at this point.  All he has to do is read my first 2 bullets at the top of this post and it will become clear to him.


bob


.

Sources: Clips hone in on Doc

By ESPNBoston.com

Rebuffed by the league in their quest to finalize a complicated package deal, the Los Angeles Clippers have zeroed in on simply extracting Doc Rivers from the Boston Celtics for the time being. 

The Los Angeles Clippers' new strategy, in the wake of NBA commissioner David Stern's public comments Thursday expressing serious misgivings about the legitimacy of the proposed trade of Kevin Garnett and a corresponding transaction that would transport Celtics coach Doc Rivers from Boston to L.A. as a package deal, is to pursue Rivers first and roll the dice on acquiring Garnett and Paul Pierce later, sources told ESPN.

The Clippers' primary target now is Rivers, whom sources said team owner Donald Sterling already has signed off on paying upwards of $7 million a year for five years. Boston would require compensation for Rivers, who is still under contract for three years and $21 million with the Celtics.

The Clippers' new challenge, sources say, is thus twofold. They must offer enough in compensation to convince Boston to let Rivers go -- which would likely cement the signature of star guard Chris Paul on a new contract when he becomes a free agent -- and then hope any subsequent trade agreement they pursue for Garnett is ultimately approved by the league as a separate transaction not contingent on the hiring of Rivers.

League sources told ESPN.com Thursday morning that previous constructions of the proposed transactions – which would've sent Garnett to Los Angeles for DeAndre Jordan, and Rivers to the Clippers with two first-round picks as compensation for the coach, were unlikely to be approved by the league office.

112288

ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI

YAHOO! EXPERT

Clippers refusing to offer compensation to Celtics for Doc Rivers; deal in jeopardy

4 hours ago

The Los Angeles Clippers are continuing to withhold any offers of compensation to secure the rights to Boston Celtics coach Doc Rivers and are threatening to blow up the blockbuster deal they've negotiated with the coach, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Celtics coach Doc Rivers has three years, $21 million left on his contract. (USA Today Sports)

After Clippers management privately insisted to people that they were awaiting approval of owner Donald Sterling on draft-pick compensation for Rivers, no offer has been made to the Celtics and there's growing concern in multiple corners of  these talks that the Clippers' front office has no authority to meet Boston's request of a first-round pick to bring Rivers to Los Angeles as coach, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Celtics and Clippers have been in contact with the league office on the proposed Kevin Garnett and Rivers transactions and NBA commissioner David Stern has made it clear that the Garnett-DeAndre Jordan part of the trade talks cannot be completed simultaneously with the securing of Rivers' rights through draft picks.

 As free-agent star Chris Paul pressures the Clippers to get deals done for Rivers and eventually Garnett, the Clippers' unwillingness to make a formal offer to Boston for compensation on Rivers has left many in the process confused, sources said. 

Boston will not relinquish the rights to Rivers without compensation – likely a first-round pick – and let him free of the final three years, $21 million on his contract, sources said.
Boston has insisted on Jordan and a first-round pick for Garnett, and would allow Rivers out of his contract to join the Clippers in a separate deal for a first-rounder, sources said.

The Clippers negotiated a five-year, $35 million deal with Rivers that could be worth as much as $8 million annually with bonus incentives, sources said. Rivers has arrangements to bring some Celtics support staff – including assistants coaches Tyron Lue and Kevin Eastman, and possibly others – with him to Los Angeles, sources said.

The Clippers haven't pushed Paul for a firm commitment to re-sign based on the completion of the deal, but Rivers would accept the job with a belief that the All-Star point guard has decided to stay and play for him, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

112288

Why the hell does anyone ever want to work for Donald Sterling???????

Is Doc Rivers absolutely that "RING" hungry that he would put himself in this position to take orders from that idiot?  Is there more than just a coach's job being thrown at him?  General Manager of Player Personnel?????

I just don't get it.  

Rosalie

David Stern is a jerk who is more concerned with "saving face" or worse, being perceived as the final decision maker on every move in the NBA.

The worst part is he is a hypocrite that believes people are too stupid to remember the past.

This VERY SAME kind of deal - happened in 2007 - when the Orlando Magic sent two draft picks to the Heat for Stan Van Gundy.  How the NBA players and Owners can allow Stern to now claim that you cant trade coaches for draft picks?

The fact that the media reported this as one big deal - it not the fault of the Celtics or the Clippers.  It was always two deals, as league rules allow.

mrkleen09 wrote:David Stern is a jerk who is more concerned with "saving face" or worse, being perceived as the final decision maker on every move in the NBA.

The worst part is he is a hypocrite that believes people are too stupid to remember the past.

This VERY SAME kind of deal - happened in 2007 - when the Orlando Magic sent two draft picks to the Heat for Stan Van Gundy.  How the NBA players and Owners can allow Stern to now claim that you cant trade coaches for draft picks?

The fact that the media reported this as one big deal - it not the fault of the Celtics or the Clippers.  It was always two deals, as league rules allow.

Mrkleen,

Was trading coaches illegal under the old CBA?


bob


.

If your assertion is right, Stern should have said that.

"You know, this used to be possible under the old CBA - but both the owners and the players agreed this was not fair, so they omitted it from the current agreement."

Instead he goes on some tangent like the dick that he is  "...I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn..." I mean REALLY?  What a jerk.

mrkleen09 wrote:If your assertion is right, Stern should have said that.

"You know, this used to be possible under the old CBA - but both the owners and the players agreed this was not fair, so they omitted it from the current agreement."

Instead he goes on some tangent like the dick that he is  "...I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn..." I mean REALLY?  What a jerk.

mrkleen,

He's a jerk.  Jerks don't think they have to explain anything, even when it affects other people.  That's one of the things that make them jerks.


bob


.

very good analysis Bob!

I'm 100% in favor of the deal but its quite possible that Stern has the legal backing to void this trade.
View below link to read the legal aspects of this proposed deal.

"Sources told ESPN.com that league officials in recent days had communicated to both teams they had serious misgivings about the proposed transactions because Garnett and Rivers have been shopped by the Celtics as a package deal, which would violate NBA rules prohibiting contingencies or side deals in any trade.


In the wake of an ESPN.com report Thursday morning regarding the NBA's concerns, Stern appeared on both "The Herd" on ESPN Radio and ESPN Radio New York and confirmed that the prospect of the Celtics and Clippers trying to submit the deals for Garnett and Rivers as separate transactions would not be permissible under league bylaws.


"I would say that if we know that what the parties really wanted to do is one [trade] and they're going to break it into two for the purposes of trying to avoid the restrictions that the collective bargaining agreement places on it, we know how to deal with that as well," Stern told ESPN Radio's Colin Cowherd.


In a subsequent interview with ESPN New York's Stephen A. Smith and Ryan Ruocco on 98.7 FM, when asked why the league wouldn't regard the two deals as separate, Stern said: "If you think those [deals], at this point having been all over the media for the last week, are separate transactions, when you get back from Miami, Stephen A., I have a bridge that I would very much enjoy selling to you"

  Swish