The State of the Celtics

Sam

I saw you mention Josh Smith, hes an unrestricted FA I believe, we don't have the available cap space as far as I know, how would the C's acquire him, trade Rondo? what are you thinking?

cow

Precisely why did Danny move up in the draft to get Olynyk?? Seemed unnecessary to me. I imagine he'd have been on the board for a good while.

k_j_88 wrote:Precisely why did Danny move up in the draft to get Olynyk?? Seemed unnecessary to me. I imagine he'd have been on the board for a good while.

Kj,

Utah traded Denver for the rights to Rudy Gobert, so they were kioking for a center to replace Big Al, and I think they were picking 14.



bob


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Bob that fat kid was a baller in college and great in the pros  That was a easy pick to make.

Brooks is not a PG he is a SG.  Did pretty good as a rookie averaging around 12 PPG.  Was buried this year on the Brooklyn bench but I think he has the shooting skills to be a good SG

Reggie Evans would have been a nice addition.

Humphrey has a $12 million expiring contract after this year and therefore represents trade value.  I expect to see him moved to Atlanta for Josh Smith or to Utah for Al Jefferson.  Both Jefferson and Smith are unrestricted free agents so their respective teams do not have maximum leverage. Those guys can walk.

There has to be at least one more team changing trade.

If you could fuse Olynyk and Iverson (Gogeta) you would have a very good center.  As it is Olynyk  will help immediately on the offense.   Iverson needs a big man coach to help him develop.  Which brings us to the same conclusion.  We need a starting center and not a rookie with perhaps 1/2 of a game in him.

Also I still do not see this as a full blown rebuild.  I think the rebuild began with drafting Bradley and Sullinger and trading for Green.  

I agree that Boston will not keep all of those draft picks.  And I do not think DA wants to spend 2 or 3 years to contend.  With the assets acquired we could get back in it sooner than people think.  If either of the rookie centers or even Fab Melo are able to contribute and we also add another quality big this team will be right there.

Lastly the new coaching staff is critical.  If we get a bum for a coach we are going to have a bum team.  I would love to see a coach that will make this team begin running in training camp until their tongues hang out their mouths.  I want to see a coach that will stress and demand that the team applies fundamental rebounding techniques and transition.  

dboss

dboss thats what I'm worried about, if this team gels at all we could be a .500 team and we need to win 24-26 games next year to have a shot at the lottery....

call me nuts I see Fab contributing and on the defensive end next year.

dboss,

I believe that if the Celts are going to get Smith or Jefferson it will have to be a sign and trade deal by Utah , completed by sunday night, since they will both be unrestricted free agents on Monday. At least thats the way I see it.

Swish

Bob, the talent on this team is way too good to tank. The draft picks and players acquired provide a quick exit out for this team. We still have 3 quality starters and if Sully is healed make that 4. This is not pre 2007.

I guess I am more optimistic about where they are. We are overloaded at the tweener 4 and should be able to upgrade that position now and still keep sully . We can still upgrade the 5 and just maybe move the horrible Wallace contract if we are willing to package Bass and a pick or 2 to get AJ back.

We can do this now because of the 4 1st rounders we got for doc, kg and pp

Dboss

Even if they are unrestricred a sign and trade can be done..

dboss,

They certainly can. Thanks for setting me straight.

swish

Who would Boston trade to Utah for a sign and trade for Big Al?
Utah would have zero interest in paying Humphries $12m for one year.
It would be better for them to let Al walk.
I don't expect they would have interest in Bass and his bloated contract.
 
I agree that Boston doesn't want to be that good for this season.
Start the process next summer to rebuild the roster with good players.

swish wrote:dboss,

I believe that if the Celts are going to get Smith or Jefferson it will have to be a sign and trade deal by Utah , completed by sunday night, since they will both be unrestricted free agents on Monday. At least thats the way I see it.

Swish

 
Sign and trades can only be completed for free agents.
Smith and Jefferson aren't free agents until 7/1.

Swish,

If you're suggesting that you think the Celtics should deliberately refrain from trying to get better NOW in order to have a better pick in the draft, you're simply not speaking any language I understand.  All the crap about "tanking" and such (I like to call it "Tim Duncanitis") is mainly naive fanspeak to which I don't subscribe.  Ever!

One reason to welcome Reggie Evans—even for a couple of years—would have been to help convert the team mentality to one of winning through rebounding superiority.  Rebuilding can involve more than trotting toy soldiers out there.  It can also include strategies or actions that build or perpetuate a winning attitude.

If Reggie Evans were injured, that would have been a different story.  And MarShon Brooks could potentially come into his own on a different team.  But, as things stand, I believe Evans could have contributed to influencing the team's style of play and mindset in a positive direction, even enhancing the role of a guy like Sully—all for well under a salary of $2 million per season—and I don't know whether MarShon Brooks could have a comparable imprint on the team's style of play. Barring further personnel moves, I guess we'll see.

Sam

Tj you left out the draft picks. And besides you do not let a player like AJ walk without some form of compensation. You know Hmphrey was a pretty productive player until he temporarily hooked up with Kim.

And Bass could be a replacement for Milsap.

Dboss

dboss wrote:Tj you left out the draft picks.  And besides you do not let a player like AJ walk without some form of compensation.  You know Hmphrey was a pretty productive player until he temporarily hooked up with Kim.

And Bass could be a replacement for Milsap.

Dboss

 
dboss,
 
If Utah would receive (2) 1st round picks they would probably take Humphries or Bass.
Humphries is making $12m next season and Bass is making $13.5m over the next two seasons.
They are both overpaid for their production.
 
Even with Marvin Williams opting in and signing of Trey Burke, Utah is $30m under the salary cap.
They have no reason to participate in a sign and trade unless it is a real sweet deal for them.

sam wrote:Swish,

If you're suggesting that you think the Celtics should deliberately refrain from trying to get better NOW in order to have a better pick in the draft, you're simply not speaking any language I understand.  All the crap about "tanking" and such (I like to call it "Tim Duncanitis") is mainly naive fanspeak to which I don't subscribe.  Ever!

One reason to welcome Reggie Evans—even for a couple of years—would have been to help convert the team mentality to one of winning through rebounding superiority.  Rebuilding can involve more than trotting toy soldiers out there.  It can also include strategies or actions that build or perpetuate a winning attitude.

If Reggie Evans were injured, that would have been a different story.  And MarShon Brooks could potentially come into his own on a different team.  But, as things stand, I believe Evans could have contributed to influencing the team's style of play and mindset in a positive direction, even enhancing the role of a guy like Sully—all for well under a salary of $2 million per season—and I don't know whether MarShon Brooks could have a comparable imprint on the team's style of play.  Barring further personnel moves, I guess we'll see.

Sam

Sam

"If you're suggesting that you think the Celtics should deliberately refrain from trying to get better NOW in order to have a better pick in the draft, you're simply not speaking any language I understand. All the crap about "tanking" and such (I like to call it "Tim Duncanitis") is mainly naive fanspeak to which I don't subscribe. Ever!"

Thats exactly what I'm suggesting. One naive person in favor of Brooks and possibly a higher draft pick in the draft.

Swish

I'm with you Sam, in the Winston Churchill mode of "Never quit. Never, ever, ever quit." The Celts should try to win every single game every season. Defeat is never an acceptable or even imaginable goal for the Celts.

dboss wrote:Bob that fat kid was a baller in college and great in the pros  That was a easy pick to make.

Brooks is not a PG he is a SG.  Did pretty good as a rookie averaging around 12 PPG.  Was buried this year on the Brooklyn bench but I think he has the shooting skills to be a good SG

Reggie Evans would have been a nice addition.

Humphrey has a $12 million expiring contract after this year and therefore represents trade value.  I expect to see him moved to Atlanta for Josh Smith or to Utah for Al Jefferson.  Both Jefferson and Smith are unrestricted free agents so their respective teams do not have maximum leverage. Those guys can walk.

There has to be at least one more team changing trade.

If you could fuse Olynyk and Iverson (Gogeta) you would have a very good center.  As it is Olynyk  will help immediately on the offense.   Iverson needs a big man coach to help him develop.  Which brings us to the same conclusion.  We need a starting center and not a rookie with perhaps 1/2 of a game in him.

Also I still do not see this as a full blown rebuild.  I think the rebuild began with drafting Bradley and Sullinger and trading for Green.  

I agree that Boston will not keep all of those draft picks.  And I do not think DA wants to spend 2 or 3 years to contend.  With the assets acquired we could get back in it sooner than people think.  If either of the rookie centers or even Fab Melo are able to contribute and we also add another quality big this team will be right there.

Lastly the new coaching staff is critical.  If we get a bum for a coach we are going to have a bum team.  I would love to see a coach that will make this team begin running in training camp until their tongues hang out their mouths.  I want to see a coach that will stress and demand that the team applies fundamental rebounding techniques and transition.  

dboss

dboss,

Yeah, Sully could ball in college, but that doesn't mean his game was going to translate well into the pro game, which is MUCH faster and MUCH more athletic.  We've seen plenty of players that were legends in college and didn't make it in the pros.  Scott Skiles comes to mind.  My point, though, was that NONE of us liked the pick when it was announced last year.  We were NOT happy.  We were wrong.

Gogeta?  Didn't get that reference.

Danny says Olynyk will be a 4 in the pros.  NOW, he's looking much better.  Not exactly what we needed, we need a 5 especially now that KG's gone, but as a 4 I think he'll look pretty good.  His slowness moving laterally will be an issue that the coaches have to work with him on but offensively he's the most NBA-ready big man in the draft.  At 7'0", going up against 6'9"-6-10" players, his gator arms won't be as much of a deficiency on offense or defense.  He needs to get stronger so he doesn't get pushed around, but that's what BDoo is for.  For all his slowness going east-west, he runs very, very well north-south, so you'll see him on the tail end of Rondo breaks.  He was a point guard until he went from 6'3" - 6'10" in one year.  He makes some questionable passing decisions, but every scouting report I've seen talks up his IQ.  That experience also made him a good ballhandler and he has soft hands.  He is said to be turnover prone, but that's because of his passing decisions, not because he has Perk-hands.  Take the ball out of his hands and put it into Rondo's and maybe we'll see those cut down.

I've said many times that I'm not a fan of the "stretch 4", preferring my 4s to do their damage inside like Sully, but Sully will be more effective if he has a stretch 4 with him spreading the floor and opening the defense up.  Look at how good he was when he was playing with KG.  KG went out to 20' and the defense HAD to go out there because they knew he'd drain it if they didn't.  That let Sully run wild in the paint against a player that was weaker and lighter and his help was out at 20' with KG. We went from having a bunch of short 4s (Bass, Sully) to having a seven-footer.  Let me point out, too, that while Kelly can shoot from outside, he also has a back-to-the-basket game too.  Watch the videos that me and others have posted about him.  He is not Rashard Lewis, who is positively allergic to paint.

I hope you're feeling a bit better about this pick after having a day or two to think about it and look at the scouting reports and videos.


bob


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right on