What took them so long?

They actually ran him through a few pick-and roll drills and said "Damn! We've been Ainged!".

And so, in the final analysis, Boston gives up some bucks and frees up a roster slot, getting us under that magic number (which saves us money and flexibility longterm) and Memphis has to eat the rest of Melo's contract.

You've been Ainged!


bob


.

I think you've coined a winner, Bob.

Sam

I'm probably in the minority but I was hoping Boston would've kept Fab.


KJ

BobH  you have coined a new phrase.

KJ I guess I am in the minority too.  Fab never had a chance to develop under the category of 'project'    Has anyone read or heard Ainge specify why he moved Melo?  

We certainly have read opinions that this was a salary dump move and that makes more sense to me than simply dumping a project for another player that will probably be cut.  With that in mind I do not assume that Melo was not good enough to stay with the Celtics.  We saw him play so rarely that no reasonable judgment can be made at this point.

I think we are all waiting for another shoe to drop.  Will the new guy get cut?  Will Ainge execute a 2 for 1 deal?  

September 1st is tomorrow and training camp opens on Oct 1st.  Our first preseason game is on Monday Oct 7th.

We are right there.

dboss

If Tyson Chandler can have a job in this league, Fab Melo should be able to as well.

KJ

Players 11-15 can be described as being 'marginal' and/or 'projects'.  If they weren't, they would be 6-10 rotation players and not 11-15.  The question of "do we keep this marginal player another year" is always being asked.  Sasha had to deal with it and, eventually, the decision was that he needed to find a new home.  The issue with marginal players is "do they fit the style and needs of the team this year?".  Projects have to answer the same question, "how long do we keep them?", but the issue here is "are they improving?".  They don't have to fill a need this year, but we need to see them growing into, at the very minimum, a solid rotation player.  You don't keep a marginal player who is also a project for any longer than you absolutely have to.

In my opinion, the answer to the question "should Danny have kept Melo longer?" was answered decisively yesterday by Memphis.

You can always argue that you were too quick to move a player that turns into something.  Billups and Joe Johnson are two great examples of former Celtics who excelled after leaving us.  Were we too quick to pull the trigger?  Were we not player-growth oriented enough?  Were we too demanding?  Was it our system that they struggled with here, the coaches? It's hard, for me, to feel this sentiment for Melo when the team that just traded for him cut him without even giving him a chance to show what he's got in veterans camp.  It surprises me, quite frankly, but it solidifies whatever opinion I had of Melo.  It's not just me vs Danny or me and Danny vs whomever.  Now, it's another organization that just slapped themselves in the head and said "wtf were we thinking?".

There is still ample opportunities out there for Fabricio Paulinho de Melo.  He could, and unless he finally learns how to defend a pick-and-roll should, return to his first love, his sports puppy love, if you will.  I think he'd make an awesome soccer goalie.  In that game, when he overplays the strong side he'll have the length  and time to recover when the ball is rotated to the other side.  Furthermore, he won't have the opposing goalie pushing into his own net and out of position.  Basketball is too quick for his brain.


bob


.

There is no sense wasting a relatively high pick on a project player then. It really serves as an indictment on Ainge's persistent miscues on personnel decisions.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:There is no sense wasting a relatively high pick on a project player then. It really serves as an indictment on Ainge's persistent miscues on personnel decisions.


KJ

KJ,

I was never a fan of Melo and, obviously, still am not.  I would rather have had Danny pick Festus Ezeli.  Having said that, I don't think a #22 is considered a relatively high draft pick.  It is 3/4 of the way down the first round.

Furthermore, the draft is a crap shoot.

Here are some players that were picked before Melo:  

#2 - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, currently on the block by Charlotte after a thoroughly underwhelming year.
#5 - Thomas Robinson, already considered a journeyman and a draft bust.
#10 - Austin Rivers, struggling coming off the bench for New Orleans
#12 - Jeremy Lamb, traded by Houston to OKC as part of the Harden deal.  Shot 35% from the field last year.
#13 - Kendall Marshall, played only 14.5mpg last year, shot 37%, 57%fts

All of these players were draft picks meaning, by definition, they are high draft picks.  Not relatively high, high.

Danny's #21 pick?  Jared Sullinger.  Would you consider that a miscue, or would you attribute the miscue to the GMs who passed over him for lesser players?

How about Rondo?  Bradley?  West?  How about his 2nd round pearls like Big Baby and Leon Powe?  You're focusing on his mistakes, which he has made, and that's understandable.  You are perhaps also giving him some credit for his successes.  What I am not sure you're doing is recognizing how well Danny is doing when compared to his peers.  If you shoot 30%, you're out of the league because that's a lousy shooting percentage.  If you have a .300 batting average in baseball, you're going to the HOF.  It's not relevant that you're NOT getting a hit 70% of the time, what's relevant is that the 30% of the time you are getting on base is better than the overwhelming majority of your peers.  How's Danny doing versus his peers?


bob
P.S. You just went from being supportive of Danny's #22 pick and regretting that he has traded him, to saying the pick was evidence of Danny being a screwup. If you like Melo, then Danny's selection of him isn't screwing up, and if you don't like Melo then you should be glad he's gone. What I said was that you don't keep a player that is both marginal and a project for any longer than you have to. He gave Melo a year in Maine, gave him another summer league to show that he has improved and can play against squads that had some legit NBA talent on them, and he couldn't do it. He did not make progress like a project player must do and he showed marginal talent. Between the two of those, it was time to cut the umbilical.


.

k_j_88 wrote:If Tyson Chandler can have a job in this league, Fab Melo should be able to as well.

KJ

 
Tyson Chandler is a legitimate defense stopper, an athletic 7'1" help defender and a very good rebounder.
If you put Chandler on a team like Golden State with their shooters, they would compete for the championship.
There are many 7 foot men that don't have the skills to play in the NBA, Fab is one of them.

bobheckler wrote:They actually ran him through a few pick-and roll drills and said "Damn!  We've been Ainged!".

And so, in the final analysis, Boston gives up some bucks and frees up a roster slot, getting us under that magic number (which saves us money and flexibility longterm) and Memphis has to eat the rest of Melo's contract.

You've been Ainged!  


bob


.

 
Bob,
 
Memphis doesn't have to eat anything.
Boston is paying Fab's salary plus an additional $350,000.
Memphis had a team option for next year which is no longer in play.
The only way this impacts Memphis is that they have Fab's salary number on their books this season.

tjmakz wrote:

bobheckler wrote:They actually ran him through a few pick-and roll drills and said "Damn!  We've been Ainged!".

And so, in the final analysis, Boston gives up some bucks and frees up a roster slot, getting us under that magic number (which saves us money and flexibility longterm) and Memphis has to eat the rest of Melo's contract.

You've been Ainged!  


bob


.

 
Bob,
 
Memphis doesn't have to eat anything.
Boston is paying Fab's salary plus an additional $350,000.
Memphis had a team option for next year which is no longer in play.
The only way this impacts Memphis is that they have Fab's salary number on their books this season.

TJ,


Better them than us. That aside, we needed to reduce our roster size and we did. We also wanted, but didn't need to, reduce our roster salary to get below that magic number. If we can all relieve ourselves of Melo without significant pain, and he gets a couple of nice paychecks for doing nothing, then everybody is happy. In fact, if he can hook up with a team in Europe or in Brazil or wherever, he can get another paycheck. Not a bad year for somebody who has only invested something like 6 or 7 years in this and isn't very good at it.


bob


.

tjmakz,

TC also has no offensive skills to speak off. He's not "that" good, he is just a big body and seems better than he is because true NBA centers are rare these days. He pales in comparison to the likes of Hibbert, Howard, a healthy Bynum, Noah, and Duncan.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:tjmakz,

TC also has no offensive skills to speak off. He's not "that" good, he is just a big body and seems better than he is because true NBA centers are rare these days. He pales in comparison to the likes of Hibbert, Howard, a healthy Bynum, Noah, and Duncan.


KJ

Isn't Tyson Chandler the current, reigning DPOY?



bob


.

k_j_88 wrote:tjmakz,

TC also has no offensive skills to speak off. He's not "that" good, he is just a big body and seems better than he is because true NBA centers are rare these days. He pales in comparison to the likes of Hibbert, Howard, a healthy Bynum, Noah, and Duncan.


KJ

 
KJ,
 
You can't compare Chandler to Fab Melo then say he is not a Dwight Howard or other top players.
He is probably without an argument, the second best defensive center in the NBA and one year ago won the Defensive Player of the Year Award.
 
Bashing him for his lack of offense is like bashing Dennis Rodman for his poor offensive skills.

bobheckler wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:tjmakz,

TC also has no offensive skills to speak off. He's not "that" good, he is just a big body and seems better than he is because true NBA centers are rare these days. He pales in comparison to the likes of Hibbert, Howard, a healthy Bynum, Noah, and Duncan.


KJ

Isn't Tyson Chandler the current, reigning DPOY?



bob


.

He was last year.

I've never been impressed by anything he's done in this league. Sorry.

TC is inferior to the centers I named. They all can play defense, too, plus can contribute offensively. TC is severely limited in that regard when pitted against his peers.

Of course, Bynum might never play another game.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:I've never been impressed by anything he's done in this league. Sorry.

TC is inferior to the centers I named. They all can play defense, too, plus can contribute offensively. TC is severely limited in that regard when pitted against his peers.

Of course, Bynum might never play another game.


KJ

 
Nobody claims that Tyson Chandler is one of the top 5 centers, like the ones you named.
To compare him to Fab Melo is just silly.
If you want to compare him to DeAndre Jordan, then I think you have a decent comparison.
A better comparison for Fab might be Ryan Hollins, but Hollins is a MUCH better player than Fab will be.

k_j_88 wrote:I've never been impressed by anything he's done in this league. Sorry.

TC is inferior to the centers I named. They all can play defense, too, plus can contribute offensively. TC is severely limited in that regard when pitted against his peers.

Of course, Bynum might never play another game.


KJ

Stats are a starting point, not an ending point. Nevertheless, if you look at Chandler's stats vs. the other centers you named, you'll see he measures up pretty well, perhaps not as well against Howard, but well against Noah and Hibbert. I did not include Duncan. I do not think it fair to compare almost anybody against one of the truly great players in the history of the NBA.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandty01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html

Against Noah, he has a better fg%, comparable rebounds and comparable ppg/36mpg

Against Hibbert, he has a much better fg%, he's a better rebounder. Hibbert takes a lot more fgas.

I would be very happy to have Tyson Chandler in green, especially since we're looking at a couple of complete unknowns as things stand now.


bob


.

I mentioned TC simply because he isn't what I consider a great center and the fact that he isn't largely talented. And yes, I understand that he and Fab Melo are in different stages of their careers.


BobH,
Hibbert scores more than just under the hoop, though. he has a well-developed offensive game.


KJ