Lee traded

Courtney Lee for Jerold Bayless trade

gets the salary down to something like 68 million doesn't it?

I can see several other deals like this happening this year.

Here what a scouting report on Bayless says:

Jerryd Bayless, G (6-3, 200). “He can attack and get to the line,” the first executive said… Bayless shot 2.5 free throws per 36 minutes this year and is an 83.6% shooter from the line… “Leave him open behind the arc and he’ll hit the 3-ball,” the first executive added… “He kind of keeps you on your heels,” the second executive said. “He’s a little powerhouse.”… The first executive added that Bayless can help Conley get off the ball because he is essentially a second point guard on the floor when they’re in the game together… The Grizzlies’ offense scores 110.2 points per 100 possessions when the duo is in the backcourt at the same time. However, they allow 100 points per 100 possessions defensively.


bob


.

Bayless is a $3.2M expiring contract.

Lee is making over $5M and has a few more years left on his contract.

Lee-for-Bayless deal in place

By Marc Stein, ESPN.com

The Boston Celtics have reached an agreement with the Memphis Grizzlies to trade for veteran guard Jerryd Bayless, according to sources close to the process.

Sources told ESPN.com that the Celtics, after pursuing him in previous seasons as well, are on the verge of acquiring Bayless for shooting guard Courtney Lee. A trade call with the league office, sources said, has been scheduled for Monday.

The Grizzlies, with nearly $7.5 million left of a trade exception they created in January 2013 by dealing Rudy Gay to Toronto, can use that exception to absorb Lee's contract, which runs for two more seasons at slightly more than $11 million after this season.

And Memphis is indeed said to be willing to take on the additional longterm salary left on Lee's contract in hopes that Lee could bring much-needed perimeter shooting to the Memphis offense. The Grizzlies are essentially relying on Mike Conley and Mike Miller for their 3-point threat in the wake of losing Quincy Pondexter for the season to a foot injury.

The Celtics have been trying to shed Lee's contract, despite the 28-year-old's 49.2 percent shooting from the floor this season and 44.2 percent shooting from 3-point range. So they've spent the weekend trying to complete this swap for Bayless, whose production is down under new Grizzlies coach Dave Joerger while making $3.1 million in the final year of his contract. 

112288

Good deal for the Celtics based on salary cap implications.  

Lee was a great guy and a solid defender - but was more of a slow and steady player, who would get you 6 to 10 on any given night.

Bayless is a hot and cold kind of guy, who when he is hot - can carry a team for stretches...but offers no defense at all.

I think this opens up a spot where Bayless slides into the 6th man role for now - and when Rondo is back, takes over the back up PG role - leaving Crawford to slide back to SG role on the 2nd team.  He is only 24, so still has lots of upside.

Good move all around by DA

Mk

It was a slick move by Danny. For one it slashes payroll for next year, second it puts the Celtics below the cap this year so they can add another player and get to 15.

Not for nothing but Brooks is tearing up the D League. Wish they can find a spot and playing time in Boston.

112288

This has the ring of a deal that starts arranging the dominoes for more action by Trader Danny.  At the same time, it could be argued that the Celtics currently need more sustained offensive explosiveness from the guard position.  So, in effect, Danny gets a few months to evaluate (for relatively little money) Bayless' potential for succeeding in the Celtics' system as (hopefuly) orchestrated by Rondo.  More likely than a long-term relationship is the likelihood that they'll part ways with Bayless after this season with a more favorable cap situation than as if they had kept Lee aboard.

This could be the tipoff that, unless there's an Asik-type "building block" transaction readily available, Danny's focus through the remainder of this season will be primarily on positioning for the long-term while being grateful for any positive developments the squad can eke out of the current season.

Sam

Lee thanks the Celtics and its fans. He has said that he thinks his character is one of the best parts of his game. I agree. Good luck, Courtney, and thanks back.






bob


.

A classy guy and a good all-around player and hard worker.  Good luck, Courtney.

Sam

A salary dump.

It was a good move, but I don't think I'm going to label it a genius move on Ainge's part. He was just lucky enough to find someone to take on that contract that HE created.

But anyway, good luck, Court.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:A salary dump.

It was a good move, but I don't think I'm going to label it a genius move on Ainge's part. He was just lucky enough to find someone to take on that contract that HE created.


KJ

The salary the HE agreed to pay for Lee is not at all out of line for the talent the Lee brings on both ends of the court.  Here are some players in the same salary range - you tell me how many are better than Lee

Antonio McDyess, PF San Antonio Spurs $5,220,000
Speedy Claxton, PG Atlanta Hawks $5,209,454
Zaza Pachulia, C Milwaukee Bucks $5,200,000
Martell Webster, SF Washington Wizards $5,150,000
Brad Miller, C null Unknown $5,104,000
Keith Bogans, SG Boston Celtics $5,058,198
Derrick Williams, PF Sacramento Kings $5,016,960
Ramon Sessions, PG Charlotte Bobcats $5,000,000
Corey Brewer, SF Minnesota Timberwolves $5,000,000
Andre Miller, PG Denver Nuggets $5,000,000
Richard Hamilton, SG null Unknown $5,000,000
Marcus Banks, PG New Orleans Pelicans $4,847,586
Darius Songaila, PF Philadelphia 76ers $4,818,000

When DA signed Lee (2 summers ago) he was a perfect fit.  No one knew that Lee would have an off season last year, that KG and Pierce would fall off so quickly, that Rondo would get hurt and be out.  Easy to play Monday Morning quarterback now.

mrkleen09 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:A salary dump.

It was a good move, but I don't think I'm going to label it a genius move on Ainge's part. He was just lucky enough to find someone to take on that contract that HE created.


KJ

The salary the HE agreed to pay for Lee is not at all out of line for the talent the Lee brings on both ends of the court.  Here are some players in the same salary range - you tell me how many are better than Lee

Antonio McDyess, PF San Antonio Spurs $5,220,000
Speedy Claxton, PG Atlanta Hawks $5,209,454
Zaza Pachulia, C Milwaukee Bucks $5,200,000
Martell Webster, SF Washington Wizards $5,150,000
Brad Miller, C null Unknown $5,104,000
Keith Bogans, SG Boston Celtics $5,058,198
Derrick Williams, PF Sacramento Kings $5,016,960
Ramon Sessions, PG Charlotte Bobcats $5,000,000
Corey Brewer, SF Minnesota Timberwolves $5,000,000
Andre Miller, PG Denver Nuggets $5,000,000
Richard Hamilton, SG null Unknown $5,000,000
Marcus Banks, PG New Orleans Pelicans $4,847,586
Darius Songaila, PF Philadelphia 76ers $4,818,000

When DA signed Lee (2 summers ago) he was a perfect fit.  No one knew that Lee would have an off season last year, that KG and Pierce would fall off so quickly, that Rondo would get hurt and be out.  Easy to play Monday Morning quarterback now.

I'm not playing Monday Morning QB. In fact, quite the opposite.

A few days ago, I stated that I thought Lee's contract at $5M/year was reasonable. I stand by that statement and I wish he didn't get traded. Hell, all year I've been remarking at the turnaround he's made.

What I am saying is that Danny signed a long term contract and was lucky enough to find someone to take it on. The same goes for Jason Terry. Ainge was lucky Brooklyn was dumb enough to get fleeced otherwise the team's rebuild is delayed even further.




KJ




KJ

So if you think DA signed Lee to a good contract and was paying him what he was worth - what is "lucky" about being able to move him to a contender looking for a defensive stopper?

Thats like saying you have a car worth 10K, yet you are lucky to sell it for 10K - huh?   

mrkleen09 wrote:So if you think DA signed Lee to a good contract and was paying him what he was worth - what is "lucky" about being able to move him to a contender looking for a defensive stopper?

Thats like saying you have a car worth 10K, yet you are lucky to sell it for 10K - huh?    

Memphis (15-18) is not a contender (12th place in West Conf).

Boston snagged an expiring contract in exchange for Lee, who makes more for a longer period of time.

I like Lee and I think he is worth $5M/year, but if Ainge didn't want to be on the hook for that long, why write the contract in the first place? He should have just done a smaller deal in the first place instead, again, same with Terry's contract. That's bad GMing.

Ainge can pull off stunning moves but he also makes a few that he probably shouldn't.





KJ

k_j_88 wrote: if Ainge didn't want to be on the hook for that long, why write the contract in the first place? He should have just done a smaller deal in the first place instead, again, same with Terry's contract. That's bad GMing.

When the Celtics brought in Terry to replace Allen and Lee in the off season two summers ago - everyone was excited about it.  If KG and Pierce hadnt lost a step, if Jeff Green didnt loose a full season, if Rondo didnt get hurt, if Terry didnt stink - Hell if 2 of those didnt happen, the Celtics would have been in the thick if it as late as last year and the Lee signing would have made perfect sense.

Looking back NOW and saying this or that was a mistake, with the benefit of hindsight is the very definition of a "Monday Morning Quarterback"

mrkleen09 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote: if Ainge didn't want to be on the hook for that long, why write the contract in the first place? He should have just done a smaller deal in the first place instead, again, same with Terry's contract. That's bad GMing.

When the Celtics brought in Terry to replace Allen and Lee in the off season two summers ago - everyone was excited about it.  If KG and Pierce hadnt lost a step, if Jeff Green didnt loose a full season, if Rondo didnt get hurt, if Terry didnt stink - Hell if 2 of those didnt happen, the Celtics would have been in the thick if it as late as last year and the Lee signing would have made perfect sense.

Looking back NOW and saying this or that was a mistake, with the benefit of hindsight is the very definition of a "Monday Morning Quarterback"

I don't think you get what I meant. But that is ok.

And for the record, I was never a fan of JT's contract. I like him as a player, but I wouldn't have given him that much, personally.


KJ

KJ,

When the Celtics signed Jason Terry and Courtney Lee, the Celtics were still considered to be contenders.  The previous year, the playoffs almost ended with a trip to the finals.  Many would say the season ended with a ref rob-job.

JT was signed using the mid-level exception (MLE), guaranteed, for three years.  That was:

1. Before Ray Allen jumped ship, so JT was an addition to the prior team.
2. When almost everyone thought JT was still in the late stages of his prime years.
3. Considered to be typical of what quality free agents of his ilk cost for contenders.
4. Considered to be a good signing at the time (ie: good GMing)

CL was signed to a MLE sized contract, guaranteed, for three years.  That was:

5. After Ray Allen jumped ship, so CL was a replacement of a lost asset.
6. After the Celtics had used up the MLE for that year and had NOTHING left to sign a good player.
7. A contract cobbled together using sticks and twigs.
8. Considered to be a great signing at the time (ie: great GMing), considering #6 & 7.
9. A sign-and-trade, which required a 3-year contract.
10. Considered to be typical of what quality free agents of his ilk cost for contenders.

After the next season, Ainge decided that the Celtics were no longer contenders.  He:

11. Traded three over paid, past their prime players for a couple of "good player- bad contract" guys and three 1st round draft picks.
12. Traded one of the highest-paid coaches (who wanted out anyway) for a 1st round draft pick.
13. Signed a coach out of nowhere, who seems to be a great choice for a rebuilding non-contending team.
14. Traded a multi-year contract (that no longer made sense) for an expiring contract.

The biggest difference between then and now is that after last season, the Celtics are no longer considered to be contenders.  Contenders generally over-pay and non-contenders should not.  Another difference is found when comparing JT's/CL's contract and skill level with that of Keith Bogans' contract.  The prior contracts were MLE (ish) three year, all guaranteed and the latter was MLE (ish) three year, non-guaranteed in the last two years.  That contract (KB's) is considered by many experts to be extremely tradable throughout it's timeframe, due to it's size and it's expiring nature (and maybe should have been included as #15 above).

All the above were considered (at the time) to be good to great GMing.  I don't see where you can look at older contracts in the now and consider that as bad GMing, and when circumstances change and those contracts are off-loaded, that is considered to be "lucky" and not good GMing.  Perhaps the other guys are just bad GM's.

NBA contracts just cannot be looked at out of context.  KB is making more money in this one year than he practically did his entire career, but was over-paid for the above reason plus it was necessary in order to make the Celtic-Net trade.  I have read that both Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries were over-paid by the Nets just so that Brooklyn could have some large salaries to trade for other large salaried better-quality players.

gyso

PS:  Third man in is a penalty in hockey, so I will just have to go sit in the box for a couple minutes.  Or is it five, I cannot remember. (LOL)

GYSO - Third man in, in the NHL is ejected from the game   

This was a good trade in my opinion for both teams.
Memphis is looking for another 3 point shooter.
Boston is looking for financial flexibility in future years.

I never liked Boston giving Lee a 4 year $22m contract.
Danny over reached a bit on that one.
In sign and trades, contracts do have to be for 3 years, but only 1 year has to be guaranteed.
Fortunately, Lee is playing better than he did last year.

mrkleen09 wrote:GYSO - Third man in, in the NHL is ejected from the game    

Thanks, its been a while since I paid attention to the NHL. I knew it was a penalty but I forgot how serious it is.

gyso

Bayless is in Denver with the team and could, conceivably, play tonight.

He will be wearing #11 for the rest of the year.  I guess Courtney handed off his jersey to him in the airport and Jerryd spent the trip removing Lee's name and sewing his on.  LOL.

Cleveland will pass the "we're officially tanking now" Chicago Bulls for playoff contention in the Central Division with the totally-useless Andrew Bynum for all-star Luol Deng trade.

We're still looking up at Washington and Toronto.


bob


.

gyso wrote:KJ,

When the Celtics signed Jason Terry and Courtney Lee, the Celtics were still considered to be contenders.  The previous year, the playoffs almost ended with a trip to the finals.  Many would say the season ended with a ref rob-job.

JT was signed using the mid-level exception (MLE), guaranteed, for three years.  That was:

1. Before Ray Allen jumped ship, so JT was an addition to the prior team.
2. When almost everyone thought JT was still in the late stages of his prime years.
3. Considered to be typical of what quality free agents of his ilk cost for contenders.
4. Considered to be a good signing at the time (ie: good GMing)

CL was signed to a MLE sized contract, guaranteed, for three years.  That was:

5. After Ray Allen jumped ship, so CL was a replacement of a lost asset.
6. After the Celtics had used up the MLE for that year and had NOTHING left to sign a good player.
7. A contract cobbled together using sticks and twigs.
8. Considered to be a great signing at the time (ie: great GMing), considering #6 & 7.
9. A sign-and-trade, which required a 3-year contract.
10. Considered to be typical of what quality free agents of his ilk cost for contenders.

After the next season, Ainge decided that the Celtics were no longer contenders.  He:

11. Traded three over paid, past their prime players for a couple of "good player- bad contract" guys and three 1st round draft picks.
12. Traded one of the highest-paid coaches (who wanted out anyway) for a 1st round draft pick.
13. Signed a coach out of nowhere, who seems to be a great choice for a rebuilding non-contending team.
14. Traded a multi-year contract (that no longer made sense) for an expiring contract.

The biggest difference between then and now is that after last season, the Celtics are no longer considered to be contenders.  Contenders generally over-pay and non-contenders should not.  Another difference is found when comparing JT's/CL's contract and skill level with that of Keith Bogans' contract.  The prior contracts were MLE (ish) three year, all guaranteed and the latter was MLE (ish) three year, non-guaranteed in the last two years.  That contract (KB's) is considered by many experts to be extremely tradable throughout it's timeframe, due to it's size and it's expiring nature (and maybe should have been included as #15 above).

All the above were considered (at the time) to be good to great GMing.  I don't see where you can look at older contracts in the now and consider that as bad GMing, and when circumstances change and those contracts are off-loaded, that is considered to be "lucky" and not good GMing.  Perhaps the other guys are just bad GM's.

NBA contracts just cannot be looked at out of context.  KB is making more money in this one year than he practically did his entire career, but was over-paid for the above reason plus it was necessary in order to make the Celtic-Net trade.  I have read that both Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries were over-paid by the Nets just so that Brooklyn could have some large salaries to trade for other large salaried better-quality players.

gyso

PS:  Third man in is a penalty in hockey, so I will just have to go sit in the box for a couple minutes.  Or is it five, I cannot remember. (LOL)

The window was closing. I realize that injuries hastened that, but I didn't really think the KG-PP having a chance would last beyond this season anyway. This is somewhat of a rhetorical questions but at the time did Ainge think he could squeeze another 4 years (length of Lee's contract) out of them? After such long careers, that wouldn't really sound feasible.

In either case, they freed up some salary space for next year. But I don't understand why they gave OKC a draft pick.



KJ

k_j_88 wrote:

gyso wrote:KJ,

When the Celtics signed Jason Terry and Courtney Lee, the Celtics were still considered to be contenders.  The previous year, the playoffs almost ended with a trip to the finals.  Many would say the season ended with a ref rob-job.

JT was signed using the mid-level exception (MLE), guaranteed, for three years.  That was:

1. Before Ray Allen jumped ship, so JT was an addition to the prior team.
2. When almost everyone thought JT was still in the late stages of his prime years.
3. Considered to be typical of what quality free agents of his ilk cost for contenders.
4. Considered to be a good signing at the time (ie: good GMing)

CL was signed to a MLE sized contract, guaranteed, for three years.  That was:

5. After Ray Allen jumped ship, so CL was a replacement of a lost asset.
6. After the Celtics had used up the MLE for that year and had NOTHING left to sign a good player.
7. A contract cobbled together using sticks and twigs.
8. Considered to be a great signing at the time (ie: great GMing), considering #6 & 7.
9. A sign-and-trade, which required a 3-year contract.
10. Considered to be typical of what quality free agents of his ilk cost for contenders.

After the next season, Ainge decided that the Celtics were no longer contenders.  He:

11. Traded three over paid, past their prime players for a couple of "good player- bad contract" guys and three 1st round draft picks.
12. Traded one of the highest-paid coaches (who wanted out anyway) for a 1st round draft pick.
13. Signed a coach out of nowhere, who seems to be a great choice for a rebuilding non-contending team.
14. Traded a multi-year contract (that no longer made sense) for an expiring contract.

The biggest difference between then and now is that after last season, the Celtics are no longer considered to be contenders.  Contenders generally over-pay and non-contenders should not.  Another difference is found when comparing JT's/CL's contract and skill level with that of Keith Bogans' contract.  The prior contracts were MLE (ish) three year, all guaranteed and the latter was MLE (ish) three year, non-guaranteed in the last two years.  That contract (KB's) is considered by many experts to be extremely tradable throughout it's timeframe, due to it's size and it's expiring nature (and maybe should have been included as #15 above).

All the above were considered (at the time) to be good to great GMing.  I don't see where you can look at older contracts in the now and consider that as bad GMing, and when circumstances change and those contracts are off-loaded, that is considered to be "lucky" and not good GMing.  Perhaps the other guys are just bad GM's.

NBA contracts just cannot be looked at out of context.  KB is making more money in this one year than he practically did his entire career, but was over-paid for the above reason plus it was necessary in order to make the Celtic-Net trade.  I have read that both Gerald Wallace and Kris Humphries were over-paid by the Nets just so that Brooklyn could have some large salaries to trade for other large salaried better-quality players.

gyso

PS:  Third man in is a penalty in hockey, so I will just have to go sit in the box for a couple minutes.  Or is it five, I cannot remember. (LOL)

The window was closing. I realize that injuries hastened that, but I didn't really think the KG-PP having a chance would last beyond this season anyway. This is somewhat of a rhetorical questions but at the time did Ainge think he could squeeze another 4 years (length of Lee's contract) out of them? After such long careers, that wouldn't really sound feasible.

In either case, they freed up some salary space for next year. But I don't understand why they gave OKC a draft pick.



KJ

KJ,

I am assuming they included OKC so they could make the Lee for Bayless/Gomes salaries close enough to pass the trade requirements.
It doesn't look like Boston or Memphis are using a trade exception.
For OKC's involvement, they are receiving a 2nd round pick.
Boston will or has waived Gomes, so they save money by not acquiring Bayless and a player with a guaranteed contract.

Although trades were likely from the get-go, having the first domino fall leads to unbridled speculation about who's going next. There very well could be additional trades, but it will be interesting to see how the speculation affects the team's focus.

They just started a road trip, and being on the road may actually be good for them to deal with the situation. Unfortunately, it's a road trip out West against really tough teams, plus Denver at altitude. It will be interesting to see how they come out of this.