Tanking—whatever that is!

I posted this elsewhere, but I think it deserves its own thread.  The subject will be self-evident.  I hope it will be taken with the spirit in which it was intended—a simple desire to clarify some communication issues on the board.

Thank you,

Sam

This whole tanking thing is a complete can of worms.  In the first place, to a Celtics fan, it's like a foreign language.  And learning a foreign language is a complex enough adventure for one person, let alone many people who are trying to converse in the foreign language while still learning it.  The term, in whatever form, is subject to different interpretations, different contexts, different "culprits," different degrees of intent------all sorts of complexities.

The "tank" term has become insidious and is used in as many forms as the "F" word: as an adjective, noun, verb, an imperative, and even as an adverb—as when Rhett Butler uttered the famous putdown to Scarlet O'Hara, "Tankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."  Some people use it as a synonym for losses.  Others use it in a general blanket sense without specifying whom they think the culprit(s) is/are or what it really is that they're being accused of.

I hated the term from the instant I first heard of it, largely because I could foresee all these problems mucking up board communication during a season when there are more than enough other complexities to address.  I know for a fact that, in many board messages utilizing some form of the term "tank," there are misconceptions as to what is meant by the term, who's being accused of the practice, etc.  So arguments can arise that are based on misunderstandings of what's really being communicated.

I'm not one to try to sanction the use of certain terms (other than insulting, vulgar or uncivil ones) on this board.  All I can do is to say that I find it ill-advised to toss around any term that's subject to numerous interpretations, meanings and implications without simultaneously delivering a treatise or perhaps including a glossary covering exactly what one means by the term and defining precisely what's intended by the usage of the term.

Perhaps my concern could be alleviated if anyone wishing to talk about tanking refrain from using any form of the term "tanking" itself and, instead, substitute terminology that communicates more specifically what the writer is trying to say.  THIS IS IN NO WAY INTENDED TO BE SOME FORM OF MANDATE; AND THE "TANK" TERM IN ANY FORM WILL NOT SUMMARILY BE DELETED BY THE TANK TROLL.  IT IS ONLY A SUGGESTION INTENDED AS A WAY TO INTRODUCE SOME CLARIFICATION WHERE CLARIFICATION IS NEEDED.

Tank you very much for your consideration.

Sam

I got the message,because maybe I was the first to use the word ,but don't worry Sam from now on I wont be posting.This is my last post and in the future I will be only reading the post from others but wont react.I never thought I was going to be called a troll but that's ok.I only gave my opinion and that is a fact.My last comments on this subject is this question...Why the Celtics did not make a trade for Spencer Hawes?Cleveland got him for 2 second round picks and he is playing very well.Once again thanks for let me be in the forum,it was a pleasure.

international wrote:I got the message,because maybe I was the first to use the word ,but don't worry Sam from now on I wont be posting.This is my last post and in the future I will be only reading the post from others but wont react.I never thought I was going to be called a troll but that's ok.I only gave my opinion and that is a fact.My last comments on this subject is this question...Why the Celtics did not make a trade for Spencer Hawes?Cleveland got him for 2 second round picks and he is playing very well.Once again thanks for let me be in the forum,it was a pleasure.

International,

A couple of things:
1) Don't leave. It's ok to have a very different opinion. By who I root for (Lakers) and how I view things differently than most here, I usually don't agree with much that is being said. I "argue/discuss" subjects about Phil Jackson, referees, LeBron James, David Stern and all kinds of other things. Sometimes I go over the line a bit and sometimes others do toward me. It's human nature. Sam has had to lock many threads when I was directly involved in a somewhat heated discussion. So what I am saying is, your opinions are just as valuable as mine, Sam's or anyone else's. Nobody thinks you are a troll just as I don't think people view me as a troll (I hope not). A troll in my opinion is for the only purpose of being somewhere is to start trouble, often through a passive aggressive means.
2) Hawes is on an expiring contract. He most likely will not resign with Boston who is rebuilding. Cleveland legitimately wants to make a big effort to make the playoffs, that's why they wanted Hawes.

Chiming in from Calistoga before I go into my 75 minute mineral mudbath (my first time.  I've been told "you'll love it!".  We'll see):

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me".

I don't understand why people get so sensitive.  I was in a poker game with a school of sharks Saturday, who knew I am Jewish and lost family in the Holocaust,  and went out of their way to say things to me that were, to say the least, provocative.  They did that to try and break my focus.  I smiled, threw a few choice ones back at them and continued to take their money.  When I cashed out in the wee hours on Sunday I thanked them and kissed their (now mine) money.  Right in front of them.  And we all laughed at who got the last one.

A number of prople on this board have debated the meaning of the word "tanking" and whether the Celtics are doing it.  There has been considerable difference of opinion on both points which, in my own opinion,  makes the whole discussion nothing but a bunch of tail-chasing.  One thing we know, for sure, is that it provokes strong emotions in some on every side.  Just as a good, healthy debate should.

This is not an online Amen corner.  As long as we are congenial and polite you can disagree with me all you want.

You can stop posting if you like, international, that is your privilege but don't do it because someone disagrees with you over a word.

And now, with your permissions (and even without them), I'm going to go and get muddy.



bob



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Bob

How big is the mud tank?

beat

International,

From my perspective, you are a valued member of the forum. You and I haven't had much direct interaction here, so it may not seem like we've built up any rapport, but I respect you and look forward to your posts.

You're obviously free to participate on the forum in any way you like, and a break from posting can be a good thing from time to time -- I've done that a couple of times -- but I'd urge you to reconsider leaving altogether as a posting member. There are others like me who appreciate your perspective.

Outside

As far as "tanking" goes, I've tuned out a lot of the back-and-forth, but a problem I see as far as the forum goes is that these discussions have an unstated emotionally charged aspect to it:

• Accusations of tanking are perceived by some as accusations against the character and honor of a revered institution.

• This is a tough season for Celtic fans, especially considering the team's success in recent years, and regardless of anyone's position on tanking, the very concept of it is like rubbing salt on a wound.

That adds a component to tanking that is a lot more serious than merely discussing the odds associated with a ping pong ball. It's not exactly Middle East politics, but it is treading on ground where people are emotionally invested.

International

I do not like the idea that any board member would refer to another board member as a troll.

Dboss

International

I left about 1 year ago for a while....had my reasons don't need to explain but I came back, main reason is because I enjoy it.

I'll just simply state what others have stated. Don't leave.

beat

International,

I don't believe Sam was referring to you as a "troll." I re-read that line a few times and I think he was actually talking about how he wouldn't impose any deletions of posts including the word "tank," provided the post didn't include any derogatory language with it. This is all just a bit of a semantic misunderstanding.

Your posts are always welcome and I think everyone here prefers that you continue posting.


KJ

International and anyone else who misinterpreted my message,

First of all, when I talked about the "Tank Troll," I was OBVIOUSLY referring to MYSELF!!!!!!!!  Read it again and you'll see that I couldn't have been referring to you because I said that the Tank Troll (myself) would NOT be deleting any messages with the term "tank" in them.  Members other than administrators do not have the ability to delete messages other than their own, so I couldn't possibly have been referring to you.  I consider it the right of members to use any words that are civil.  I was simply trying to point out that sometimes arguments about "tanking" can be caused by different interpretations of how the word is being used.

As a moderator, I find that the subject of tanking is the single red flag I have to stop to analyze most extensively; and I frequently find that two people who are arguing about tanking are often interpreting the term differently.  For example, one may be referring to Danny and the other may be referring to the players, and yet they're both using the terms "tanking" or "not tanking" instead of being specific.  My post was intended as a suggestion that people be more specific if they're going to talk about tanking.

I guess any misinterpretation of my message or my intent was my fault for trying to introduce a little humor into what I thought was an otherwise humorless message by calling myself the "Tank Troll" instead of simply writing the word "I."  I tend to try to inject humor into a lot of my writing.

Anyway, don't leave the board.  At least not because you think I was calling you a "Tank Troll."  Your inputs continue to be valuable; and, even if not everyone agrees with you, it's not a reflection on you or your writing or anything else of a negative nature.  This is a forum of opinions, and it would die a horrible death if everyone agreed with one another.  Moreover, just think of how much less we'd know about international players if not for you.  You have much appreciated roles on this board, and we need you to stay.

I look forward to seeing you on the board.

Thanks,

Sam

My fault,it was a misunderstanding and my reaction was not the best.Please excuse me and thanks for your words.I will be here in the forum for a long time,because its a great therapy to share comments about our beloved Celtics and it provide a great way to improve my English.You are the best fans a team can get and is an honor to be with you talking about our team.LET'S GO CELTICS.

international wrote:My fault,it was a misunderstanding and my reaction was not the best.Please excuse me and thanks for your words.I will be here in the forum for a long time,because its a great therapy to share comments about our beloved Celtics and it provide a great way to improve my English.You are the best fans a team can get and is an honor to be with you talking about our team.LET'S GO CELTICS.

Welcome back (not that you really left anyway)

beat

beat wrote:Bob

How big is the mud tank?

beat

beat,

Well, that was interesting!

First of all, while some places have baths for two (honeymooners, romantic couples etc) the place we went to was not co-ed.  There was a men's locker room and a ladies locker room.

You got naked (in the locker room, of course) and took a quick shower.  Then, you got into the mud bath for 12-15 minutes.  You lie in it while an attendant slops mud up onto your chest and shoulders.  There is a headrest.  He puts slices of cucumber over your eyes and then covers your upper face and head with a cold rag.  The baths are individual, seem to be concrete with bath tile over the concrete, and about the size of a big tub.

Then, you get out of the mud and shower again.  After that, you settle into a tub (like the old school iron ones with the legs) with a jet of mineral water and soak for about 10 minutes.  Then, you go into the steam room for as long as you want, up to 20 minutes.  Afterwards, you lie on a cushioned table (sorta like a gurney without wheels) where they wrap you in a big towel and just lay there for 20 minutes.

A final shower and then you re-dress.

I have slight arthritis in my hands and a creaky left knee ("helped", no doubt, by all those years of playing basketball on NYC concrete courts and skiing black diamonds at Cannon for all those years).  My hands and knee feel great right now, really great. We'll see how long it lasts.

I'm trying to figure out how to get my pictures of the bath and the tub out of my tablet into a readable format here.  They're jpegs, but for some reason nobody likes to read or open them.


bob


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Bob

none of your photos are needed

beat

Bob, it's pretty interesting that the treatment alleviated the arthritic pain. Depending on the cost, not terrible therapy to have occasionally. I think they call those tub legs "bear claw" legs, don't they.

Sam

International,

I'm glad it's cleared up. I recall, back in the Boston.com days, having to suggest to people that, if I post anything that they don't understand or think is insulting, before they respond to me, they should make sure it's not an attempt at humor on my part. I think humor is the best antidote for anything that ails society. I've always tried to inject a lot of humor into this site because I like to think it sets a convivial tone and I also feel most comfortable when attempting humor. but the downside is that humor is sometimes understood only by the "humorist."

The reason I brought up the subject of tanking was that sometimes discussions on tanking can get a little chippy, and I was trying to lighten the tone a little. Nice try; no cigar. But it won't stop me from trying in the future.

Anyway, I'm glad you're on this forum.

Sam

I was able to figure out how to make this readable, but I'm having trouble with the mud tub.



This is the tub you got into after the mud bath.  The water in it is local water with a high mineral content.  You can see the headrest at the near side and the hose for the jet at the other end.






Here's the link to the place I stayed.  There are some pics.


http://www.drwilkinson.com/manandmud.html






The Mud

Calistoga is blessed with pure volcanic ash and vibrantly mineralized hot springs water. Doc figured out how to combine these two wonderful elements with vital Canadian peat to make the mud treatment as effective as possible. Designed for maximum heat penetration and buoyancy, the tried and true formula has long been recognized as Calistoga's finest. While the volcanic ash cleanses and smoothes your skin, the peat buoys you up and allows the mineral water's soothing heat to penetrate more deeply. Natural lavender aromas from the Napa Valley help to relax both the body and mind.



bob



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Thanks Sam.

Bob, just your description of the materials and the method put me into a coma.  The only reason I woke up was that my wife walked by on her way into the shower

Sounds like you found a real winner.

Sam

sam wrote:Bob, it's pretty interesting that the treatment alleviated the arthritic pain.  Depending on the cost, not terrible therapy to have occasionally.  I think they call those tub legs "bear claw" legs, don't they.

Sam

sam,


We just showed up, no reservation, Sunday at around 5 pm or so.  This is the off-season, but the weather was absolutely gorgeous (especially compared to NE).  Not a cloud in the sky on Sunday or Monday, temps during the day in the 60's.  I'd recommend reservations, especially if you're traveling far to get there.

$175 got us:

A room with a king bed;
Access to the jacuzzi room (not outside, it's inside a building, so it's year round), both mineral pools (effectively outdoor swimming pools, but the water has a high mineral content as opposed to the normal high chlorine content you get in public pools).  They even provided us with shorts we could use.  My friend is Brazilian and she got in the outdoor pool, so it couldn't have been too cold since her blood is thinner than water;
The resort package, which provided for us:  2 mud baths, 2 soaks in the tub with the mineral water, steam room, towel wrap (I'm NOT someone who can just lie there and do nothing for long, but I was happy to just lie there after all those mineral treatments and 20 minutes in the steam room.  That is a TON of time in a steam room for me).

My bones were complete mush by the time I was done.

Massages are also available, but were not included in the above package and we didn't get one.  For me, at that point, it would have been like beating up on playdoh.

So, when you think about it, if you are willing to pay $100 for a room for the night, the 1 1/4 hour treatments came out to $35 each.  A very good deal.

If the wife loves to spa, this is a pretty nice little treat for her.  Calistoga is a cute little town, only about 2 blocks long.  It is also, of course, in some of the best wine country in the nation.  Calistoga is about 75 miles north of SF, at the north of Napa Valley.

Another cool place is the Castello di Amoroso.  It is 3 miles outside of Calistoga.

http://www.castellodiamorosa.com/



bob


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So let me get this right. International is not going anywhere and he was not called a troll.

Great....

Dboss

So, Bob, is this the fountain of youth in bath form? Quite interesting that you shared this with everyone. I guess I will have to look into it, I need all the help I can get these days.

Glad you enjoyed yourself

Rosalie

BobH,

Your visit brings to mind a week I spent with an ex-girlfriend who had moved back home to CA and was working at a place called Wilbur Hot Springs. By the end of the week I was in a glorious zombie state supposedly due to the lithium in the spring water. Whatever it was it was effective. Now why didn't I marry that girl???