some Tuesday morning draft/trade mind wonderings....

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some Tuesday morning draft/trade mind wonderings.... Empty some Tuesday morning draft/trade mind wonderings....

Post by kdp59 Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:12 am

browsing some draft sites this morning and looking at mock drafts. I starting thinking "what if Milwaukee surprises and drafts Embiid?"

should Ainge get on the phone with them about Sanders at some point then?

I would think a Bass and Bogans (non-guaranteed) deal would be fair to both teams. Milwaukee would be looking to move on from the $44M they owe Sanders with Embiid on board and they need some help at PF. Bogans $5M salary cut is always good for small market teams.

would and more importantly COULD Sanders be the guy who could take on the Starting Center job here for the next 4 years (at least)?

what if we use our draft picks on players like:

5. N. Vonleh
17. N. Stauskas

would a starting lineup of Sanders, Sully, Green, AB and Rondo be a playoff team next year, with a future of being a title contender down the road?

OR...........

Maybe Ainge should just see what Milwaukee wants for the number one overall pick this year ?

our #5 pick and how many future first would it take?

is Embiid worth it?

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Post by beat Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:11 am

kdp

none of us have a clue as to what pick we will get or any team will get for that matter............er well except the knicks.

don't baffle yourself to death, yet. At least wait till the balls drop.

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Post by k_j_88 Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:12 am

If Embiid is available, draft him.

But the Celtics have no idea how the ping pong balls will bounce. The Celtics could get a top 3 pick, or they may end up outside of the top 5.

As far as Bogans is concerned, he'd basically done in this league and I doubt he has much value at this point.


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Post by kdp59 Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:07 pm

yes guys....I know it's early for all the scenario's.

but as the season winds down and I find myself looking at the upcoming draft, I can't help but let my mind wander into all types of options to improve the Celtics.

i guess it's the basement GM in me!

with that said......a-hem.......

how about we get Embiid (IF doctors lcear his back issue) in the draft (trade, pingpong balls, whatever).

then trade Green and Bogans (his non-guaranteed contract does have value in the NBA) for Hayward in a sign and trade.

Trade Bass to Charlotte for G- G. Neal ( $3.5M in cap savings)

draft TJ Warren or R. Hood at #17.

Roster:
Embiid
Fav
Stiemsma (FA around $3M)
Sully
KO ( 6th man)
J. Anthony
Hayward ($14M)
Wallace
Hood or Warren
Bradley ( $7M or less)
Johnson
G. Neal
Rondo
Pressey

right below $70M in salary there , so still below the Luxury line.

playoff team next year.

Big three being Rondo, Hayward and Embiid.

still have at least one first round pick in each year going forward.


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Post by k_j_88 Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:17 pm

kdp,

My only problem with trading Green for Hayward is that we are not making a significant upgrade to the SF position. If there is a change at the 3 spot, making it a huge game changer seems more worthwhile.

I'd also like to see the Celtics add a few snipers to come off the bench to maintain the flow of offense when the starters come out.

I would also look at moves to consider trading Sullinger or Olynyk for a better post-defending PF. As much as I like them two, their post defense is very weak. If the Celtics are going to get better, their interior defense must be addressed. Collectively, their offense is not quite yet enough to compensate for their lack of defense.

I would keep Humphries and Bayless. I'd keep Bass, too, but I am not against him being traded for a quality piece.

I'd love to see Bradley retained, but his contract desires and his propensity towards injuries may affect him staying in Boston.

There's so many moving pieces with this team, it's insane.



KJ


Last edited by k_j_88 on Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by bobheckler Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:18 pm

kdp59 wrote:yes guys....I know it's early for all the scenario's.

but as the season winds down and I find myself looking at the upcoming draft, I can't help but let my mind wander into all types of options to improve the Celtics.

i guess it's the basement GM in me!

with that said......a-hem.......

how about we get Embiid (IF doctors lcear his back issue) in the draft (trade, pingpong balls, whatever).

then trade Green and Bogans (his non-guaranteed contract does have value in the NBA) for Hayward in a sign and trade.

Trade Bass to Charlotte for G- G. Neal ( $3.5M in cap savings)

draft TJ Warren or R. Hood at #17.

Roster:
Embiid
Fav
Stiemsma (FA around $3M)
Sully
KO ( 6th man)
J. Anthony
Hayward ($14M)
Wallace
Hood or Warren
Bradley ( $7M or less)
Johnson
G. Neal
Rondo
Pressey

right below $70M in salary there , so still below the Luxury line.

playoff team next year.

Big three being Rondo, Hayward and Embiid.

still have at least one first round pick in each year going forward.




kdp,



Green and Bogans are $13.7M in salary. If the "Hayward" you are referring to is Gordon Hayward of Utah, he only makes $3.5M. Even with a new contract, no way he's worth anything near $13.7M.

The Bass for Neal trade fails.

Have you used the NBA Trade Machine?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine


bob

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Post by kdp59 Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:31 pm

Bob,

I believe Charlotte has cap space next year and can take on additional money in trades. Bass' deal ($6.9M to Neals $3.25M).

yes I am assuming that Hayward gets in the $12-14M range in any new long term deal.
and our coach certainly knows if he is worth it or not, I would assume.

I don't use the ESPN trade thing, but does it account for NEXT seasons salary's or only the current season?

Green and Bogans are actually slighty over $14M next season.

and I also think Hayward is probably more consistant than Green (who wouldn;t be?) and is younger.







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Post by Outside Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:46 pm

kdp59 wrote:would and more importantly COULD Sanders be the guy who could take on the Starting Center job here for the next 4 years (at least)?

kdp59 wrote:is Embiid worth it?
I'll take the easy question first. Is Embiid worth it? Maybe, maybe not. I like what I've seen, so I'd say yes, draft him if he's available, but it's still a roll of the dice even if you get him.

Is Sanders worth it? No. He's owed $11 million per season for the next four seasons, and so far, he's shown himself to be a player of limited ability -- last season, he averaged 9.8 points, 9.5 rebounds, and 2.8 blocks -- who loses control of his emotions way too often.

Before the season, the Bucks signed him to a four-year, $44 million extension based on the promise shown by a third-year player who had a triple-double of 10 points, 12 rebounds, and 10 blocks in one game and was third in most-improved player voting. They hoped that he would get control over his emotions which also led to this last season:

November 21, 2012 - ejected
January 19, 2012 - ejected
March 13, 2013 - ejected
March 15, 2013 - ejected
March 22, 2013 - ejected; 6 technicals, 3 ejections, and $95K in fines in a 10-day span
April 25, 2013 - altercation with teammate Monta Ellis after the game

He led the league with five ejections and was tied for third with 14 technicals.

Rather than show maturity and responsibility after signing the extension, this is what happened:

August 20, 2013 - signs $44 million contract extension
August 25, 2013 - gets misspelled tattoo ("Recieve")
November 2, 2013 - complains about how new coach Larry Drew uses him
November 2, 2013 - tears ligaments in his thumb in a bar fight, out 25 games
December 27, 2013 - returns, fouls out in 22 minutes
January 4, 2014 - altercation with teammate Gary Neal after the game
January 10, 2014 - gets a technical, fouls out
January 11, 2014 - fouls out and is ejected for elbowing Steven Adams of OKC in the head
February 8, 2014 - breaks orbital bone, out for the season; played 23 games

He's had a tough background, and I sympathize with him as a human interest story, but the bottom line is that for $11 million per year, you get a less talented, equally volatile and cancerous version of Boogie Cousins.
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Post by bobheckler Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:45 pm

kdp59 wrote:Bob,

I believe Charlotte has cap space next year and can take on additional money in trades.  Bass' deal ($6.9M to Neals $3.25M).

yes I am assuming that Hayward gets in the $12-14M range in any new long term deal.
and our coach certainly knows if he is worth it or not, I would assume.

I don't use the ESPN trade thing, but does it account for NEXT seasons salary's or only the current season?

Green and Bogans are actually slighty over $14M next season.

and I also think Hayward is probably more consistant than Green (who wouldn;t be?) and is younger.










kdp,

Gyso is the resident salary cap expert but I don't think the ability to absorb salary because you're under the cap means the deal will be approved.  The numbers have to match up first and then, if the absorbing team is under the cap, can the deal work.  If I am correct (paging Dr. Gyso!), then the Charlotte deal cannot work.

As far as the Hayward deal goes, I just disagree with the idea that Gordon Hayward is worth $12-$14M/year.  I don't see him being worth that in the previous CBA and I absolutely, positively do not see him getting even near those numbers under this CBA.  I could be wrong, we'll see this summer.

I think the trade machine only accounts for this year's salaries but unless they're getting BIG salary increases next year, it'll get you close.  As I said, I do not see Gordon Hayward getting anywhere near the salary boost you do.

Gordon Hayward/36mpg, this season:

Gms...GS....Mins..fgm....fgas...fg%..3fga..3fgm..3fg%...2fga...2fgm...2fg%...ftm....fta....ft%....ORB....DRB...TRB....Ast...Stl....Blk....TO...PF....Pts
70.....70.....2543..5.5....13.2...414..1.1....3.6....313.....4.3....9.6.....452.....3.8.....4.7...816....0.8.....4.3....5.1.....5.2...1.4....0.5...2.8...2.0...15.9


Jeff Green/36mpg, this season:

Gms...GS....Mins..fgm....fgas...fg%..3fga..3fgm..3fg%...2fga...2fgm...2fg%...ftm....fta....ft%....ORB....DRB...TRB....Ast...Stl....Blk....TO...PF....Pts
74.....74.....2523..6.2....15.0...410...1.7...4.9....351.....4.4....10.1.....439....3.6....4.5....790....0.7.....4.2....5.0....1.7....0.7...0.6....2.1..2.2...17.6

Is Gordon Hayward such an upgrade that he's worth 150% more?  They actually look quite similar.  Hayward has more assists/36 but Green has a much better 3pt fg%.  As far as age goes, Hayward is 24, Green is 27.  That's not enough of a difference to make a difference.

Defense, however, is more difficult to quantify.  I can say that Utah has the league's worst defensive fg% in the 10-14' mid-range at 43%.  The Celtics are  #16.  At 5'-9', we are tied with the Jazz for 5th worst, at 1-5' Utah is 10th worst and we're 12th and we have no center.  They're 3pt defense, 20-24' is 11th from the worst and we're the 3rd BEST.  Is it fair to blame Hayward for that?  Probably not, but it does make you wonder.

Hayward can play 2 positions, SG and SF.  Green can play 3.


bob


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Post by Sam Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:56 pm

Bob, better to let gyso shed some light on this.  I'm of the belief that a team with enough cap space can absorb enough salary so the trading partner could absorb as little as a draft pick and shed a lot of salary while passing the cap requirements.

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Post by swish Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:28 pm

Sam

I agree with you. My understanding is that teams under the salary cap do not have to match salaries as long as they are still under the cap when the deal is finalized.

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Post by Sam Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:50 pm

Swish, it's nice to have a vote of confidence.  But, to tell the truth, all that "capology" stuff is so complex that I'm just glad gyso is here to keep us straight.

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Post by gyso Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:13 am

Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ wrote:81. What are the rules regarding trades?

Teams under the salary cap may make trades as they please, as long as they don't finish more than $100,000 above the salary cap following any trade.

But if a team finishes more than $100,000 over the cap, whether they started out above or below the cap, then an exception is required. An exception is the mechanism that allows a team to make trades or sign players and finish over the salary cap. Since most teams are usually over the salary cap, trades are usually completed using exceptions.

Some exceptions are available only for signing free agents, and those exceptions are covered in question number 25. The exceptions available for making trades are as follows:
•The Traded Player exception is the principal means through which most trades are made. It is described in question numbers 82, 83 and 84.
•The Minimum Salary exception can be used for either trades or signing free agents. It allows teams to acquire minimum-salary players. See question number 85 for more information.
•The Disabled Player exception also can be used for either trades or signing free agents. It allows teams to replace certain injured players (see question number 25 for more information).

Note that sometimes there are multiple ways to configure the same trade. For example, a minimum-salary player might be acquired using either the Traded Player exception or the Minimum Salary exception, or a two-for-two trade might also work as two separate one-for-one trades. Teams are allowed to choose the configuration that works best for them. See question number 87 for an example of this.

When teams wish to complete a trade they must set up a "trade call" with the league office. If the teams wish to complete the trade over a weekend they must notify the league office on Friday, otherwise the trade call cannot be held until the following Monday. The trade is not complete until all terms have been agreed to during the trade call.

During the trade call the teams and the league office review:
•The exact terms of the trade (players involved, cash, draft picks, etc.).
•Contract details for each player, including remaining seasons, salary and any trade bonuses.
•Health information for all players, including any factors that could affect a player's ability to play basketball at any point in his career.
•Insurance information, including any exclusions (see question number 72).
•Each team's responsibilities and understandings.

Following the trade call each team sends the league office an email with the terms of the transaction, and the league office sends the involved teams instructions for conditions that must be satisfied before the trade becomes official (such as physical exams). When all conditions have been satisfied, the league office sends another email notifying the teams that the trade is complete.

Players cannot play, practice or work out with their new teams until the league office notifies the teams that the trade is complete.

If a team misrepresents or fails to disclose any pertinent information during the trade call, the Commissioner can impose penalties including a fine up to $1 million, suspension of the team executives who were involved, rescinding the trade, and/or the forfeit of draft picks.

Traded players must report to their new teams within 48 hours of receiving notice of an in-season trade, or within one week if the trade occurred during the offseason. If a player fails to report to his new team following a trade it can be deemed conduct prejudicial to the NBA, and subject the player to a fine and/or suspension.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q81

The Bobcats have $44,843,280 for total salaries for 2014/2015.

Bass makes $6,900,000 in 2014/2015 and his contract is expiring.
Neal makes $3,250,000 in 2014/2015 and his contract is expiring.

The difference is 3,650,000.  The team salary of the once and future Hornets can take the extra salary and stay under the salary cap after the trade.

gyso

PS:

The Jazz have $31,429,750 for total salaries for 2014/2015.

Green and makes $9,200,000 in 2014/2015 and the next season after that is with a player option of $9,200,000.
Bogans makes $5,285,817 in 2014/2015 and it's unguaranteed

Gordon Haywood makes $4,677,708 in 2014/2015 and his contract has a QO on it for that season.

The difference is about 9,800,000. The team salary of the Jazz can take the extra salary and stay under the salary cap after the trade.


Last edited by gyso on Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:32 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : All salary numbers come from ShamSports.com + added PS:)

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Post by Sam Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:44 am

Thanks, gyso.  It always looks so easy when you explain it.

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Post by kdp59 Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:27 pm

thanks.....I knew I didn't need ESPN.....LOL>

I should note:

I assumed that hayward was a sign and trade scenario. Where he signs with Utah and then is traded.

Utah gets to dump Bogans non-guaranteed deal and save the $5M.

Green replaces Hayward on their roster

they draft Randle at #4.

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