Rumor: Ainge Made A Promise To Porzingis

Bob, finally! Thanks for persevering. It was definitely worth it. One thing I noticed is that, when he can, he prefers using two hands rather than one. I saw it in his blocking technique in another video. I saw it in his dunking technique in this video. I like that because (1) it prevents the loss of control of the ball when he goes up for dunks, (2) it helps to control the ball when he tries to redirect it in the course of a block, which he does quite often (a la Russell), and (3) it's testimony to how long he is, as opposed to Perk, who had to reach in with one hand in order to get high enough on a lot of offensive rebounds.

I enjoyed watching him lead the pack on a break. I know people will (justifiably) say that his competition was weak. But the things I'm talking about are his own tendencies, which have virtually nothing to do with the competition. I'd draft him, even if means expending the Celtics' second draft pick and then stashing him.

Thanks again,

Sam

Sam

sam wrote:Bob, finally!  Thanks for persevering.  It was definitely worth it.  One thing I noticed is that, when he can, he prefers using two hands rather than one.  I saw it in his blocking technique in another video.  I saw it in his dunking technique in this video.  I like that because (1) it prevents the loss of control of the ball when he goes up for dunks, (2) it helps to control the ball when he tries to redirect it in the course of a block, which he does quite often (a la Russell), and (3) it's testimony to how long he is, as opposed to Perk, who had to reach in with one hand in order to get high enough on a lot of offensive rebounds.

I enjoyed watching him lead the pack on a break.  I know people will (justifiably) say that his competition was weak.  But the things I'm talking about are his own tendencies, which have virtually nothing to do with the competition.  I'd draft him, even if means expending the Celtics' second draft pick and then stashing him.

Thanks again,

Sam

Sam

sam,

Were you finally able to see the draftexpress video or did you just get to see the videos I have been providing?

He's a toothpick and I feel a little foolish harping on him as much as I have considering how much I've said I'm done with toothpicks, but this kid looks interesting to me.

He plays in, what some consider, the 2nd hardest league in the world.  Granted, that league is not as physical as the NBA, which will allow him to utilize his length as constructively as possible while covering for his "turn-sideways-and-he's-gone" frame, but one thing at a time.  He's only 18 years old, 19 in August, and grew 4" since 2011.  He would have to have a Hoover for a mouth (or, perhaps a more 21st century metaphor might be "a Dyson") to fuel his body to grow up as much as it has AND put on weight and muscle.

The draft projection boards are split on him.  Draftexpress has him going #23 to Utah, mynbadraft.com has him going #26 to Miami.  nbadraft.net has him going #43, mid-2nd round, to Atlanta and others don't have him being drafted at all.  It looks like the raters either like international players or not.  If they don't, they have Exum and Saric and maybe one more international player in the 1st round.  If they do like/respect international players, they'll have those two plus Nurkic, Porzingis and either one or two SGs in the 1st round, and then have Tavares, the Greek Freak's brother and others in the 2nd round.

Danny almost certainly will bring Colton Iverson back from Turkey.  He's NOT a starting center, he doesn't fix that problem, but he will set the picks that Vitor has read about but has never actually set himself.  If so, then Danny still needs a starting center.  The starting center to be named later plus Vitor and Iverson makes 3.  Would we really have room for another?  Porzingis is 18, he has two more years on his contract with his team, let him marinate some more.  If he comes here at 20, he's still as young as anybody we'd want and he'll be tougher, bigger and ours.  

Plus, if Danny's not liking any of the players left on the board at #17 because Stauskas, Hood etal are already gone then it makes sense to draft down and take him at #20 - 22.  If that nets us a 2nd round pick, that can be for another draft and stash, like Tavares or one of those Euro gunners.  Shooting translates well across leagues, especially if they have size too.


bob


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Bob,

Just the ones you've been providing. But I saw enough to realize I'd be happy if the Celtics drafted him with their second pick, whether or not he would have to be stashed away. They might have room for four depending on how many players they have to shell out for the center to be named later and depending on how many PFs they trade away (which could be some of the the same pieces used to get the center). I'm not a fan of drafting down—especially just to get a second-round pick— unless you've got a rock solid promise from other clubs that the player you want will still be there when you pick.

Sam

Sam and other Mac users,

Download a program called Flip4mac, the free version. It gives Mac users the ability to view videos in the Windows Media Player format. Here is one of many download links:

http://flip4mac-3.en.softonic.com/mac/download

Pete

sam wrote:Bob, finally!  Thanks for persevering.  It was definitely worth it.  One thing I noticed is that, when he can, he prefers using two hands rather than one.  I saw it in his blocking technique in another video.  I saw it in his dunking technique in this video.  I like that because (1) it prevents the loss of control of the ball when he goes up for dunks, (2) it helps to control the ball when he tries to redirect it in the course of a block, which he does quite often (a la Russell), and (3) it's testimony to how long he is, as opposed to Perk, who had to reach in with one hand in order to get high enough on a lot of offensive rebounds.

I enjoyed watching him lead the pack on a break.  I know people will (justifiably) say that his competition was weak.  But the things I'm talking about are his own tendencies, which have virtually nothing to do with the competition.  I'd draft him, even if means expending the Celtics' second draft pick and then stashing him.

Thanks again,

Sam

Sam

of course if you hands like this you don't need two to dunk.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bnx6S6fCAAAugfh.jpg

http://btn.com/2014/05/16/noah-vonlehs-huge-hands-steal-day-at-combine/


LOL....just sayin!

Thanks, Pete. I'll give it a try.

You know that record-size dinosaur thigh bone they just discovered in South America. Actually, it had a mac tattoo on it. (Only kidding. Actually, I like my mac even if is a little temperamental at times.)

Sam

sam wrote:It's important to avoid the perception that protecting the rim is synonymous with blocking shots.  There are few players who, on average, block more than an average of two shots per game.  Yet, at least theoretically, the rim has to be protected for the entire game.

In my book, short of having Russellian talents, a player can protect the rim more consistently by preventing opponents from reaching the hoop than by blocking a couple of shots per game once they have reached the hoop.  Toughness and intimidation are great assets for a rim protector to have, although it's a more complete rim protection package if shot blocking is included.

This is why I don't like the term "rim protector" because I believe those very words immediately send people searching for blocks per game or per 36 minutes or per whatever.

Sam

Excellent point Sam. Shot blocking is actually one minor aspect of rim protection.

dboss

I wouldn't exactly call shot blocking a minor aspect of rim protection, but Sam's point is valid. In my view, a rim protector does several things, which I'll list in order of importance:

1.  Forces the opponent to take fewer shots inside.

2.  Improves the defensive effectiveness of his teammates by allowing them to be more aggressive knowing that the rim protector is behind them.

3.  Alters shots that are taken inside or otherwise forces the shooter to take a more difficult and lower percentage shot.

4.  Blocks shots.

Although blocking shots is fourth on the list, the threat of the blocked shot is the basis for the first three on the list. I'd say shot blocking is more accurately portrayed as the foundation of rim protection. If a guy can't block shots, he can't be a rim protector.

Outside wrote:
1.  Forces the opponent to take fewer shots inside.

2.  Improves the defensive effectiveness of his teammates by allowing them to be more aggressive knowing that the rim protector is behind them.

These two factors right here would help Avery Bradley immensely. As the team's best overall defender, he doesn't have a big beast in the middle to sure up the backside of the defense.

If we all think back, Tony Allen had Perkins and Garnett in the post.



KJ

Outside wrote:I wouldn't exactly call shot blocking a minor aspect of rim protection, but Sam's point is valid. In my view, a rim protector does several things, which I'll list in order of importance:

1.  Forces the opponent to take fewer shots inside.

2.  Improves the defensive effectiveness of his teammates by allowing them to be more aggressive knowing that the rim protector is behind them.

3.  Alters shots that are taken inside or otherwise forces the shooter to take a more difficult and lower percentage shot.

4.  Blocks shots.

Although blocking shots is fourth on the list, the threat of the blocked shot is the basis for the first three on the list. I'd say shot blocking is more accurately portrayed as the foundation of rim protection. If a guy can't block shots, he can't be a rim protector.

I agree with everything that you said. My reference to minor is more related to average blocks rather than the threat that prevents or alters shots.

dboss

Another stretch 4 when we need tough guys to play in the post.

Outside,

The reason I call it minor (although perhaps there's a better term) is that, if a center blocks two shots a game and intimidates the opponent on 50 other possessions, I think the blocking is in the minority.  In my mind, the threat of a block is part of intimidation, not a statistical blocked shot. I believe the first three of your four points fall under the category of intimidation. It's really a matter of semantics. But the reason I avoid the term "rim protector" is that I feel many people improperly equate rim protection ONLY with blocked shots. Example: "Player A is a real rim protector because he gets 2.3 blocked shots a game. And he's a better rim protector than Player B because Player B gets only 1.8 blocked shots per game." That's why I used the term "too limiting" in referring to the widespread interpretation of "rim protector."

Sam

dboss,

Sorry if it seemed like I disagreed with you, because I don't. My intent was to use what you and Sam were discussing as a launching point for clarification about the role and impact of a rim protector. What you said was correct based on your working definition of "shot blocking" as the number of shots actually blocked. My objective was to expand the meaning of the term and thereby expand the meaning of the term "rim protector."

Sam,

Regarding avoiding the term "rim protector," it seems like the options are to:

A) Come up with another term to describe the role that includes all the points that I listed and is the role that the Celtics desperately need filled, at least in some capacity.

B) Educate those who use the term "rim protector" that the role extends far beyond the number of blocks a player gets.

Have you seen an adequate alternative term? I haven't. Until someone comes up with one, I'm going with option B.

dboss Since its possible that this team is 3 or 4 years away from being a serious contender, why is it imperative that we get the paint protector this year ? If your going to draft a player in the 18-20 year old range, why not the player considered to be the best player or prospect on the board? At this early stage of their rebuilding program, concentrate on the talent not the position.

swish

Outside,

I've been using "intimidator" because I believe it is broad enough to imply a variety of ways to protect against penetration. I also believe it implies an "attack defense" mentality that I believe is important. And I've never heard that term used for a player other than a center, so it quickly conveys the position that's under discussion. But there's nothing magical about that term, and I understand why most people prefer the "rim protector" description. It's just when they try to evaluate candidates for the job based primarily on blocked shots that I feel their perception of the need might be short-sighted.

There's nothing wrong with my using "intimidator" while everyone else uses "rim protector." What's the old adage: "Listen to what I mean, not to what I say?" It's a little like what has happened to me in Paris, when I try my fractured French on a Parisian, who is equally intent on trying his/her fractured English on me and we stubbornly carry on this rather bizarre conversation in one another's languages.

Sam

Swish,

I'd like to weigh in on the question you asked dboss.

During all of this transitional period in which the Celtics are immersed, there's been surprisingly little conversation about how such a transition should proceed. What should come first? What's the chicken and what's the egg? (Had to get the trite stuff out of the way.)

My own belief is that the evolution or development or redevelopment or rebuilding, or whatever one chooses to call it, should begin with much more than a simply amassing of resources (which I feel has been transpiring to date). To this point, Danny's been collecting players (several almost by default in the big trade) who collectively comprise a very unbalanced roster, with far too many power forwards, too little point guard depth, and the complete absence of a real starting center. In my book, there has been very little (if any) indication of the direction in which the team wants to build for the future.

I believe the cornerstones in moving into the future will be the point guard and center positions. The reason for their importance is because (in what I view as the ideal scenario) those are the only two positions that have major influences on all of the other positions. Ideally, the center is the defensive catalyst, and the point guard is the offensive catalyst.

Subject to another extended period of Rondo departure rumors, the point guard position is filled, although it needs more well-defined depth. But, without the dependable defensive deterrent in the middle, I don't believe the team can embark on establishing a decent defensive system. The defensive potential of any of the players cannot be accurately determined while they're playing out of position or focusing on covering for defensive inadequacies in the middle. A coherent defensive system can't be established in such a period of flux.

I guess the whole thing boils down to (1) whether the Celtics should use the coming season primarily to stockpiling and weeding out players in a vacuum (as far as a systemic vision is involved) or (2) whether it's important to develop a systemic framework for the future so that acquisitions and other decisions may be made with the context of that framework. I subscribe to the second option, and the primary requirement it to occur is the dependable defensive deterrent in the middle.

Sam

Don't be surprised if Danny helps Kevin McHale to swing a deal whereby Houston gets Kevin Love and the Celts get Asik. Couple that with the Celts lucky lottery ball pick of Jabari Parker, and we are off to the races.

Sam,

I suppose "intimidator" could work, although the first thing that comes to mind with that term is Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn.

Outside,

Actually, the first thing that comes to my mind with "intimidator" is Bam Bam of the Flintstones.  I don't believe a player has to be a jerk in order to intimidate defensively.  I think of names like Russell, Jabbar, Walton, Chamberlain and Thurmond.  Even the Worm, though he was a jerk in many ways, didn't play dirty—at least not to the extent of Lame Beer and Mahorn.

Sam

worcester,

A three-way trade between Houston, Boston, and Minnesota was a possibility I hadn't considered before. It would also mean that Boston could probably not use quite as many assets on one trade.



KJ

Of course so many variables of any trade situation will be determined by how the ping pong balls fall.

Fun to watch and listen to Bob. Has Johnny Most come back and speaks a foreign language?

Rosalie

worcester wrote:Don't be surprised if Danny helps Kevin McHale to swing a deal whereby Houston gets Kevin Love and the Celts get Asik. Couple that with the Celts lucky lottery ball pick of Jabari Parker, and we are off to the races.

W -

We get lucky enough to land Parker and put him on the floor with Rondo and "off to the races" will be an apt description.

Regards

Kevin O'Connor, of Celticsblog.com, now has Porzingis up to #10, ahead of Nurkic (6'11", 280#), Stauskas and Randle (whom he has all the way down at #14!??!!). For what it's worth, draftexpress still has Porzingis at #23 and ESPN has him at #27.

If we don't get a top 3, and if it looks like we're not going to get Love, I hope Danny takes this kid.


bob


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FIIINALLLLY!!!  I was able to find draftexpress' scouting video of him on youtube and can cut-and-paste it here.

Watch this kid.  He's moving up the charts.  My bet is that he'll come over for some workouts and measurements and his stock will go even higher once teams start to put him through some paces.

Currently, post-lottery:
Kevin O'Connor - #17 (Celtics)
draftexpress - #21 (Thunder)
mynbadraft.com - #29 (Thunder)
bleacher report - #23 (Jazz)

He's not drafted in the first round on some mock drafts but these four show that some people think that a first round pick on him isn't just throwing it away.





Bonus:

Here's WEEI's scouting report on him from 2 days ago.  NOTE!  The person writing this is Kevin O'Connor, the blogger from Celticsblog who has Porzingis coming to the Celtics at #17, so you know he's pretty high on him.


http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2014/05/19/nba-drafts-potential-celtics-latvian-pf-kristaps-porzingis/


KRISTAPS PORZINGIS

Position: Power forward
Country: Latvia
Age: 18
Height: 7-foot
Weight: 220 pounds
Wingspan: Over 7-foot

Key 2013-14 stats: 6.1 points, 2.6 rebounds, 1.0 blocks, 14.0 minutes

Scouting report: Porzingis is a 7-footer who brings incredible potential as a shot blocker, defender and 3-point shooter. It’€™s hard to understand why he’€™s not a consensus lottery pick, though it may be due to his slight frame. But that’€™s hogwash. One needs just a look at a photo of Joakim Noah at age 18 to see that Porzingis has the same exact build as he did at that age.

Not to say that Porzingis will be a Defensive Player of the Year like Noah, but any concerns about his body should permanently be put to bed, considering his extremely wide frame — ideal for adding muscle — is a positive, not a negative.

Porzingis is attractive as a prospect because his skills are perfect for the modern stretch big man. He struggles with consistency from 3-point range (34.2 percent), but has excellent mechanics and looks silky smooth when spotting up in transition or halfcourt. As a bonus, Porzingis is quite athletic and can finish strong at the rim in transition. Once he adds muscle, it’€™s reasonable to assume he will make his way onto the SportsCenter Top 10 with some loud dunks.

At only 18 years old, Porzingis already is one of the better individual defenders in Spain’€™s ACB, arguably the second-best basketball league in the world. Cajasol was an average defense team (104.5 DRtg), but the team was better when Porzingis was on the floor (101.0 DRtg).

The Latvian 7-footer has a long way to go as a threat on the post, as a passer and on the boards, but for a (currently) underweight teenager playing in a league full of grown men, his production is exceptional. He’ll be a “draft-and-stash,” but the rewards could be bountiful in the coming years. In terms of value, Porzingis could be the steal of the draft, especially if he isn’t a lottery pick.

How he fits: Porzingis would provide the Celtics with a potential rim protector once he adds muscle to his wide frame, but in the short term, his aptitude for scoring would provide the team a boost. It’€™s difficult to slot Porzingis’ draft positioning, but he’€™s a possible top-10 talent who could slip to the 17th pick.


http://www.eurohopes.com/player/1478/kristaps-porzingis/


Ok, now that I was able to finally get the draftexpress video here (that was incredibly frustrating to me) I'll back off this kid until his name pops up again in a legitimate way (like he's invited to Boston to work out).



bob



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