my "what if" off-season , season two of the re-build.

I started this idea in a thread earlier about a quick re-build with Love as the new centerpiece, so apologies if anyone finds it a bit redundant.

1) Ainge trades Rondo and Bass to Houston for Asik, Lin and Beverly.

cap space is slightly in our favor, so we are at about $57M before the Rookies .

2) rookies should cost about $5M the first year , so we cut Bogans and call it a wash.

3) draft Aaron Gordon at #6

4) draft Tyler Ennis  at #17

5) Re-sign Bradley for no more than $6M.

6) Re-sign Bayless  for 1-2 year at $3M per.

7) Sign Iverson for rookie minimum deal.



right around $67M  in Cap space there, though with Asik and Lin's deals the owners will have to pony up about $81M in actual salary's.


the Roster: ( prejected min/G, reb/G, pt/G)
Asik ( 30 min-11 reb- 10 pt)
Fav (10 min- 3 reb- 3 pt)
Iverson
Sully ( 28 min- 9 reb- 14 pt)
Kelly ( 20 mn- 5 reb- 8 pt)
Anthony
Green ( 30 min- 4 reb- 15 pt)
Wallace (10 min- 2 reb- 3 pt)
Gordon ( 16 min- 5 reb- 5 pt)
Bradley ( 30 min- 2 AST- 15 pt)
Lin   ( 28 min- 5 AST- 13 pt)
Beverly ( 20 min- 2 Ast- 8 pt)
Bayless ( 18 min- 2 Ast- 6 pt)
Ennis



Pressey and Babb  are in camp, but likely cut (though Pressey could earn a 15th roster spot or even stay if the team doesn't re-sign Bayless).


Why?

IF Ainge feels that we simply are not ready to make a move back to elite status as a team, it makes sense to keep acquiring assets. With 2015 a possible good FA year, this roster puts the Celtics in position to be a player there if they chose ( with Asik, Lin, Beverly, Anthony and possibly Bayless all FA's the team would have more than $23M in cap space coming off the books).

If Ainge feels Kelly is part of the teams future a player like Gordon is a perfect player to pair him with.

this roster is a better team than we have right now and a possible Eastern Division playoff team next season, all the while with very YOUNG players in primary positions.

we keep all the future assets we have for future moves or additional young players.

Kdp,
I think that the trade you mentioned is a very lopsided one. DA will do it only as a last ditch effort, in utter desperation. IMO, he'd rather gamble w/RR going into FA.
Also, even if DA goes for this trade he'd ask for a boatload of picks.

AK

I'd be all for getting a future pick or two in that trade as well.

I assume here that if Ainge can't bring in at least one more TOP level player , that Rondo walks after next season.

What do you see in Aaron Gordon that would make you want him at #6?

Why on earth Ennis as our second pick @ 17

As we say in Syracuse.........OVERATED.

He'll be eaten up on defense by virtually any point guard. But I see you never play him........so why pick him?

beat

kdp,

I don't believe the Celtics' situation this coming season should be as black or white as (1) becoming elite or (2) stockpiling assets. Barring a monster trade of the KG variety, it's not likely that the team will magically morph into being elite in any single year. It's usually more of a process of development that keeps evolving until they gradually arrive at contention status.

That being the case, I don't think simply stockpiling assets should be the primary goal this coming season. I believe assets should be acquired in accordance with some semblance of blueprint or vision for the future. This should be a season in which the team develops some chemistry and an identity that can point the way to the future. None of that happened this past season. At this juncture, it's not enough simply to acquire assets.

Among all the discontinuities that are inevitably associated with rebuilding, the point guard is usually the single most important offensive catalyst in holding things together and paving a path toward the future. Rondo—even if they have him for only this season—is the best player for this chore. I have great doubts that Lin would have the ability to fill this role, especially since his arrival will create a dramatic discontinuity with a litany of discontinuities extending back to last season.

The best way to keep Rondo from walking after the coming season will be to get him excited about the direction the team is taking. If he then leaves (even though I believe the Celtics can offer him more money than any other team), at least they can use his cap money toward another player. But the team will presumably be much farther along in the rebuilding process than as if this season turns out to be just another exercise in discontinuity and asset building.

In short, there's always a context. And I suggest that this is the season in which the context for Danny's decision-making should become more focused on team building rather than simply asset acquisitions.

Sam

cowens/oldschool wrote:What do you see in Aaron Gordon that would make you want him at #6?

I think that, IF Ainge sees Kelly as a future Starting Forward that Gordan fits very well with him.

also I think that at #6 we are looking at players like Vonleh, Smart OR Randle along with Gordon, McBucketts and the other lesser players. McDermott is a smaller Kelly, in that he's an under the basket type player.

Vonleh, Smart or Randle (whichever is left at #6) coudl eb options as well. But I Gordon's high BB IQ AND his top level athleticism, swngs me on his long temr potential (again with Kelly).


Beat .........I am fine with the best PG at that pick (LeVine, Napier?).


Sam......I would have thought you would have enjoyed bringing in Asik here. I think you would agree IF Asik (or Gortat) is the best we can do this off-season, that Rondo will be waiving good bye anyway.

Kdp,
If Danny can swing Asik or Gortat - RR is here to stay, IMO.
He, Rondo, is no dummy. He understands that to build a contender you need stars (astronomical and basketball) to line up. Even KG-RA-PP alliance hasn't happen out of blue. So, a trade for a good, solid C will be considered a very important step.

AK

sinus007 wrote:Kdp,
If Danny can swing Asik or Gortat - RR is here to stay, IMO.
He, Rondo, is no dummy. He understands that to build a contender you need stars (astronomical and basketball) to line up. Even KG-RA-PP alliance hasn't happen out of blue. So, a trade for a good, solid C will be considered a very important step.

AK

I dunno...I don't see either Asik or Gortat in the same class as Garnett or Allen.

Rondo may see Howard and Harden as close though.

sam wrote:kdp,

I don't believe the Celtics' situation this coming season should be as black or white as (1) becoming elite or (2) stockpiling assets.  Barring a monster trade of the KG variety, it's not likely that the team will magically morph into being elite in any single year.  It's usually more of a process of development that keeps evolving until they gradually arrive at contention status.

That being the case, I don't think simply stockpiling assets should be the primary goal this coming season.  I believe assets should be acquired in accordance with some semblance of blueprint or vision for the future.  This should be a season in which the team develops some chemistry and an identity that can point the way to the future.  None of that happened this past season.  At this juncture, it's not enough simply to acquire assets.

Among all the discontinuities that are inevitably associated with rebuilding, the point guard is usually the single most important offensive catalyst in holding things together and paving a path toward the future.  Rondo—even if they have him for only this season—is the best player for this chore.  I have great doubts that Lin would have the ability to fill this role, especially since his arrival will create a dramatic discontinuity with a litany of discontinuities extending back to last season.

The best way to keep Rondo from walking after the coming season will be to get him excited about the direction the team is taking.  If he then leaves (even though I believe the Celtics can offer him more money than any other team), at least they can use his cap money toward another player.  But the team will presumably be much farther along in the rebuilding process than as if this season turns out to be just another exercise in discontinuity and asset building.

In short, there's always a context.  And I suggest that this is the season in which the context for Danny's decision-making should become more focused on team building rather than simply asset acquisitions.

Sam,

Excellent post. I highlighted the points I wanted to make but you already made for me.

bobheckler wrote:Trading Rondo for Asik (who isn't even the best center on his team.  His GM went out and got a starting center even though Asik was already on the team) and a bunch of other players who have not played in a single all-star team (and probably never will) is the Ray Allen/Kevin Garnett trades in reverse.

No thanks.


bob

+1

Thanks, Outside. Danny's really got a huge juggling act on his hands. And one thing that makes it tougher than before is that, in 2006, no one (fans, media, owners, even players) had the kinds of annual expectations the last several years have registered in people's minds.

I completely agree with kdp that it would be foolhardy for Danny to rush things in an ill-considered manner. But time's awastin' in terms of sharpening his "core" assets while integrating reinforcements.

Sam

Just a random thought

Look at the "value" we had at the beginning of last season vs now. Certainly most of the players (the ones we still have) increased there perceived value IMHO. Now add to that the draft picks and it appears we can deal from a position of strength much better than 10 months ago.

DA certainly has his work cut out.....what pieces do we keep and what are used to get that "star(s)" we so desperately need?

Would it be the worst thing in the world to go to battle this fall with the 2 fairly high picks and the players we have?

Personally we just are not that far removed from being playoff caliber. But still a ways from being the contender status we all want.

Once we actually get to draft day things should become a little clearer.....perhaps.

beat

Beat,

It would be the worst thing to go into next season with the status quo plus a couple of draft choices because there's a huge hole in the middle—especially on defense. And I'm not even talking about won/lost records. They'll never develop a decent defense—to say nothing of a potent one—without that anchor in the middle to do his own damage and to free teammates to do their own damage.

Sam

Sam

Sure there is a hole there, but giving up too much to fill it can lead to even more problems. ( and what exactly is "too much"?) I doubt we go status quo, the need is just too obvious.

I know the old saying....."KG isn't walking thru that door"

beat

bobheckler wrote:A team with no all-star is not a team that is likely to go far in the playoffs, since you are unlikely to dominate at any position, nor is it one that is likely to attract all-stars.  Trading one of the top PGs in the game for a bunch of players that have watched the all-star game from the same seats we have does not, IMO, move us forward.

The Ray Allen trade was good for us because we traded a future possibility (#5 pick, Jeff Green, who has never played in an all-star game) and two players who played in a total of one all-star game between them for a perennial all-star and future HOFer.  We upgraded a starting position from a nice player (West) to a dominator.

The Garnett trade was good for us because we traded a bunch of future possibilities and a bunch of players that didn't even have one all-star game between them and still don't.  We upgraded a starting position from a very nice player (Jefferson) to a dominator.

Trading Rondo for Asik (who isn't even the best center on his team.  His GM went out and got a starting center even though Asik was already on the team) and a bunch of other players who have not played in a single all-star team (and probably never will) is the Ray Allen/Kevin Garnett trades in reverse.

No thanks.


bob


.
bob


.

I would agree that value is not equal...however, Ainge did trade two players (Garnett and Pierce) with a LOT of All-star games under their belts, for draft picks and some lesser pieces.

Most think it was amove backwards to eventually move forward.

I would see ANY Rondo deal, as in the same vein.

KG and Pierce were traded because (1) they were coming to the end of the trail and (1) it was advisable to rid the Celtics of their salaries to make serious headway with a makeover. I don't see either of those conditions pertaining to Rondo.

Sam

sam wrote:KG and Pierce were traded because (1) they were coming to the end of the trail and (1) it was advisable to rid the Celtics of their salaries to make serious headway with a makeover.  I don't see either of those conditions pertaining to Rondo.

Sam

end of his current contract and likely hood he will command top dollar to stay.

is Rondo worth a max deal?

kdp,

Danny and I have an agreement. I let him handle the finances. All I care about is whether Rondo's the best option at the PG position for the Celtics at this point in time. And I believe he represents the best combination of continuity with the team and the franchise, ability to make the players around him better, the potential to breathe greater life into the transition game (given wings who can fly down the floor), and leadership ability . I do have some concerns about his seeming reluctance to push the ball more constantly, but I'm hoping that will work itself out with a better meeting of the minds between Rajon and Brad.

If forced at gunpoint to conjecture as to Rondo's worth, I'd say that he's had half a season to work with a ragtag bunch of players who comprised a severely unbalanced roster and a chemistry that never really developed. I'd say it would be ill-advised to make a decision as to Rajon's ongoing value to the team until he (hopefully) has a full season under his belt, interacting with a roster that's deliberately built to develop some synergy rather than being put together largely by default (which was the case last season).

All-in-all, I'd say it would be wise to defer judgment as to Rondo's worth until after the coming season. If he leaves, he leaves, and the team uses his cap money on another player. Or—better yet—Danny might be able to capitalize on the fact that they can offer Rondo more than other teams as a means of persuading him to do a sign-and-trade.

Sam

Hi,
Speaking about RR. Can Celtics do sign-and-trade with him?
As for max money for him - if he's at the level of '12 plus continues to show improved shooting (last season) - I say yes.

AK