another way to rebuild?

I'll just post the link here, its fairly long read, then my thoughts:

http://www.celticslife.com/2014/06/going-other-direction-rebuilding.html


for me, IF I am trading Rondo (and I may agree that with Stevens as HC , Rondo may not be a long term answer at the point).....I want more from Sacramento.

In fact when I look at their roster I see perfect trade match ( if they want Rondo that bad).

We send Rondo (12.9M) & Green (9.445M)to Sacramento
for
McLemore(3.026M) , Gay (19.317M)and their #8 pick.

we are under the cap and take back the additional salary for the #8 pick. Gay would have to opt in on the last year of his MONSTER deal.

then we can get Asik for either that trade exception or re offer the Bass and a future pick, if they are looking for real assets instead of a salary dump.

going into the drat we have 6,8 & 17 picks.

we know the top three picks, after that we'd need ONE of Smart or Exum to fall to #6. Likely as only ONE of Vonleh, Randle or Gordon would need to be picked at either 4 or 5.

so lets say Exum and Vonleh are picked at 4 and 5 in some order.

we have Smart go Smart at #6 then.

at 8 we could still have the option of Randle, Gordon or McDermott. we all know I would hope that Gordon drops there.

Stevens young roster for next year:

Asik
Fav
Iverson
Sully
KO
Anthony
Gay( Final year of deal)
Gordon (#
Wallace
McLemore
J. Young, K. Anderson, J. Hood (#17)
Johnson
Smart (#6)
Bayless (re-signed 1-2 years)
Pressey


kinda makes you go....hummmmm....

kdp,


I have to say the author is far more in love with the draft than I am.  I'm not just talking about this draft, I mean all drafts.  Way too much of a crap shoot for me.  To be honest, I see almost every draft pick as a trade chip, not as a player, but I'm probably a little overboard on that.  Unless you're the pick of the litter (this year that means Embiid, Parker, Wiggins) you're a question mark.  Vonleh's too small for center, Exum is unproven against U.S. talent, Smart is a 6'3" tweener, Gordon is offensively weak, and so on as we go deeper into the draft and players are more and more flawed.

This team you list is really young.  Who is the leader?  Sully?  Maybe, but he's only 22 years old.  Wallace?  He's coming off of knee injury and he's going to be 32.  When he's done with this contract in 2 years he's probably gone.  There are NO all-stars on this team.  Zero.  So, what would you say the chances are of trading for an all-star are?  IMO, zero, because all-stars don't want to go to a rebuild and this team is even more of a rebuild than the one we have now and teams with all-stars don't want to trade them for a bunch of rotation players.  In a sport with as small a roster as basketball, quality trumps quantity.  What are the chances of a team with zero all-stars making the playoffs?  Damn close to zero.  A lot has been made about how well the Spurs distribute the ball and play as a team but we should also remember they have two All-NBA players (not even all-stars but All-NBA!), Parker and Duncan, as starters.

You can grow a garden by planting seeds and wait 3-4 months before you can get some fruit (vegetables that we eat, like zucchini, are actually the fruit of their plants) or you can go to Home Depot and buy a plant that's already 18" high and wait 1 month.  One way is cheaper, much more hands-on, has a much higher failure rate.  The other starts out with solid, healthy stock with a good headstart.  What's more important: money and the satisfaction of knowing you "did it all yourself" or eating the product?  It's not my money, it's Wyc's, and I'm not in the gym working with the players everyday, Brad is so, for me, it's all about eating.  I want #18 and I'd prefer it sooner rather than later.  This roster pushes it out to the indefinite future more than obtaining proven high-quality players and adding complementary players as needed.

I'll admit, if we give up Sully AND Kelly to get Kevin Love I'll wonder if that was too much, but if I have to give up only one, I'd do it in a hummingbird's heartbeat.  Kevin Love has been All-NBA 2nd team two of the last three years.  That makes him a likely over-match against every other player at his position in the NBA except for one (the first-teamer).  How can one not want the 2nd best player in the league at his position (and one who is only 25!) over players that maybe, someday, could, possibly be Kevin Love-lite?

Bottom line, this rebuild team of his is going nowhere for years.  I doubt it would even win 25 games next year.  What it does have is a bunch of nice pieces, but if those pieces don't develop into All-Stars then eventually you're going to have to trade them anyway for All-Stars because a team without All-Stars isn't a playoff team.

And we need to get to the playoffs to win #18.

So, why wait to trade for an All-Star if you can get one now?


How about this roster?  I have Sully, Green and Anthony  + picks going to Minny for Love (the NBA Trade Machine says this trade is successful.  Minny gets back up for Pekovic besides Turiaf, replacement for Budinger and replacement for Love) and the TPE going to Houston for Asik to free up cap space so they can sign Carmelo:

5 - Asik, Vitor, Iverson
4 - Love, Kelly, Bass
3 - Wallace, Johnson
2 - Bradley, Bayless
1 - Rondo, Pressey

Thin at 3 and Wallace is a question mark, a bit small at 2 and thin at 1 but wings are more plentiful than bigs in today's NBA and Brad worked out A LOT of guards these past few weeks.  This roster has two players that have been on All-NBA teams (Love 2x 2nd team, Rondo 1x 3rd team).  Are we done?  No, but this is a team that has an excellent chance of making the playoffs in the weak eastern conference.  Making the playoffs is key to keeping Love and keeping Love means keeping Rondo and keeping both of them means the chances of a 3rd "Big 3" joining them is MUCH higher.  It is not a straight line, your chances of adding an all-star get much better if you already have one and your chances of picking up a 3rd one is MUCH better than your odds of picking up the 2nd.  Look no further than Kevin Garnett.  He wasn't coming to Boston when it was looking like just him and Pierce, despite they have been friends for a long time.  It was only when we got Ray Allen that Garnett saw that not only is anything possible, but with the addition of himself to Ray and Paul, some things were now damn likely.  That's where we need to get to and running a kindergarten doesn't get it done.

Sorry, but I'm just not in love with the author's plan.  Worth kicking around a bit, though, since we might not get Love and that 2nd All-Star.  I just don't think going backwards by giving up your only All-Star is the way to go forward to #18.  Thanks for the link and your thoughts.  Damn, now I'm hungry.






bob



.

KD, when did Brad Stevens ever say that Rondo may not be a long term answer? I can't imagine him saying that, but maybe he did. When totally inebriated.

Trading Rondo in hopes that Exum will turn out to be an NBA superstar makes little sense to me. I much prefer Bob Heckler's plan to aggregate all-NBA players onto this team and win #18. There's a reason why T.S. Eliot wrote "April is the cruelest month." When you start your own plants from seeds, they often get frozen out with the late spring frost. Better to have them up and growing and then transplant when the weather is assuredly warm. I prefer Bob's Home Depot strategy.

one thing I should have noted on that post.

the Celtics would have Gay, Asik and Anthony all on expiring contracts after next season.

Clearing over $30M in salarys off the books.

As we get closer to the off-season moves becoming real, it can be interesting to think out of the box at times.

The smoke on Love seems very thick right now on the web at least. If the fire is threer and a deal is being discussed, then we all know the price we pay is important.

Ainge must be willing to walk if the price they ask is too high, we COULD just turn around and offer Love (or any other FA) a max deal in 2015, with the roster above.

I am fine either way, I just hope Ainge and company either go ALL IN for a quick title run OR continue the rebuild with young players to go with our young coach...please no in between stuff.

Bob and Worcester,

It's no secret that I prefer going with the tried and true than drafting with the ghost of the unknown (aka Fab Melo) hovering above my head.  I'm not sure what all the fascination is with kids.  Unless a veteran has chronic health problems or a draft pick is a "can't miss" player like Oden (oh wait!), I'm going with what I see rather than what I hope 10 times out of 10.

The more kids who are added to this team, the longer the period of discontinuity that usually accompanies either arrivals or departures.  Didn't anyone witness the Celtics' last season before they were bailed out by KG and Ray?  A lot of kids to salivate over, but virtually no cohesion and definitely no results.

Sam

kdp59 wrote:one thing I should have noted on that post.

the Celtics would have Gay, Asik and Anthony all on expiring contracts after next season.

Clearing over $30M in salarys off the books.

As we get closer to the off-season moves becoming real, it can be interesting to think out of the box at times.

The smoke on Love seems very thick right now on the web at least. If the fire is threer and a deal is being discussed, then we all know the price we pay is important.

Ainge must be willing to walk if the price they ask is too high, we COULD just turn around and offer Love (or any other FA) a max deal in 2015, with the roster above.

I am fine either way, I just hope Ainge and company either go ALL IN for a quick title run OR continue the rebuild with young players to go with our young coach...please no in between stuff.

kdp,


But why would Love, or any other top free agent, agree to come here as a free agent if he would be the only All-Star on the team because we traded Rondo for a bunch of expiring contracts?  That's the situation Love is currently in with Minny and he is committed to getting out of it.  Winners want to go somewhere where they are likely to win, it's in their competitive DNA.  If you build it, they will come, but you have to build it for them first.  It is rare, and I'll give Durant (and even DWade) HUGE credit for this, for a superstar to agree to be the first one in on a long-term rebuild.  Trading our only all-star just because we can't get Kevin Love this off-season doesn't build it, it is the demolition of whatever is built and that will set us back.

The plan should be to obtain and retain all-stars and then add to them.  If you don't need to trade them for flotsam and jetsam, like Minny has to because Love has publicly kneecapped their negotiating position by saying he's gone at the end of next year and that started the clock ticking, then you don't do it.

If Rondo said "get me another all-star or trade me", especially publicly to the press, then that would be different, but he hasn't.  As long as he has confidence in Danny, and he says he does, then there's no reason to bring in the bulldozers and just start over from scratch.



bob


.

another piece on going complete youth movement.

http://www.celticslife.com/2014/06/report-if-celtics-do-not-get-kevin-love.html

Steve Bulpett is on his game. Guy has more Celtics insight than anyone else, and his latest article has several bombshells.

First: Bulpett says the Celtics current offer for Kevin Love consists of Kelly Olynyk, the 6th and 17th picks in this year's draft, and a future first rounder of their own (not a Brooklyn pick).


So far, according to a source, they have offered the Nos. 6 and 17 picks in this year’s draft, Kelly Olynyk and one of their own future No. 1 picks. They also own two more first-rounders from the Nets and one from the Clippers after this season, and the Celts are said to be certainly willing to discuss different combinations of their assets.

Second: Love wants to be moved by the draft, or else he will simply play this season out and become an unrestricted free agent after this year. Shockingly Flip Saunders hiring himself as head coach is not changing his mind.


What has become more clear over the past couple of days is that, despite talk that it might hold on to Love and take its chances that he’ll decide to stay, Minnesota almost certainly will have to deal him in the next week. One source told the Herald that Love and his agent, Jeff Schwartz, told the Timberwolves flatly that, if he is not traded sooner, he will opt out of his contract after the coming season and leave as an unrestricted free agent. It didn’t matter that Saunders was taking over the coaching reins; Love is leaving.

And finally: if the Celtics do not find Love this summer, they will be going in the complete opposite direction, aka blowing it the hell up and dealing Rajon Rondo, and Jeff Green (who Bulpett says they have a suitor for).


If the Celtics cannot get Love, they are planning to continue with the longer and more methodical rebuilding process, a process that would likely see Rajon Rondo traded. (An NBA source said they would also have a taker for Jeff Green if they chose to move him.)

Personally, this is exactly what I have been pushing for for exactly a year. Either go all-in on the Rondo era, or start from scratch with a whole bunch of young guys. The expiration date on the one foot in, one foot out rebuild is this summer, and Ainge knows that, which I love. A 28 (29 next season) year old Rondo does not make any sense on a team just beginning it's rebuild, and it certainly doesn't make sense to give Rondo max money to stick around if that's the direction we're headed.

And obviously all this goes for Green too. Green will be 28 next season and is clearly not a guy you keep around for $9 million per season if you're rebuilding. I'm actually really interested in seeing who the suitor is for Green to be honest.

If the Celtics do deal Rondo, Sacramento has long been the team I have thought is most likely. They own the 8th pick, Ben McLemore and the rights to restricted free agent Isaiah Thomas. That would work financially, and the Celtics would then own the 6th, 8th, and 17th picks this year, Thomas, McLemore, Olynyk and Sullinger, plus two more firsts in 2015, 2016 and 2018. No, they would not have a star, but they would be in really good shape in terms of a youth movement.

Other possibilities: LA (for the 7th pick and Steve Nash's expiring deal -- personally don't see this happening), Charlotte (9th pick, young players), Houston (Omer Asik, several firsts) and Detroit (Greg Monroe and a future first).

But breaking down those possibilities is for another time. For now we wait some more. But the Celtics ship, which has been slowly turning around in the sea of NBA rebuild (a necessity in the short term) is about to pick a direction. And it's happening very soon.


Follow Mike on twitter - Mike_Dyer13

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for me:

like I said above I would rather get Gay on a one year rental, if we go this route than Thomas on a sign and trade for crazy dollars.

IF there is no Love or another All star coming this season, then I can see Rondo moving on. so we have to consider that here also.

McLemore was a top pick last year and played pretty well for a rookie, he is the key player to get back there (along with the #8 pick of course).


with 10 first round picks in the next few years, we will have ample chance to get a star player or two (unless we are stuck in the middle).

McLemore, Smart and say Gordon or McBucketts?

that's a good start to team with Sully and Kelly O to me.