Brad Stevens Contemplating Ways To Get Both Jeff Green And Evan Turner Into Celtics Lineup

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2014/10/brad_stevens_jeff_green_will_p.html



Brad Stevens contemplating ways to get both Jeff Green and Evan Turner into Boston Celtics lineup



Print Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com
on October 13, 2014 at 2:10 PM




WALTHAM – With Jeff Green out for the first four games of preseason to nurse a strained calf, finding minutes for Evan Turner has been easy. Just start him.

Brad Stevens, though, has seriously contemplated how to divide minutes when both men are healthy. Green's return to practice Monday – and hopes that he can play in the preseason games this week – will crowd the perimeter rotation.

“I’ve given a lot of thought to it,” Stevens said before Monday's practice. “Jeff’s going to play most of his minutes – or maybe just over half of his minutes – at the 3, but he’ll also play some 4. I think Evan has to play. Whether that’s starting or coming off the bench, or whatever. Evan can get into the paint and that’s a huge, critical thing for our team.”

It's unclear how much Stevens would put Green at power forward. If he plays much there, it could diminish opportunities for Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk and Brandon Bass, all of whom deserve ample playing time.

Green spent a lot of time as a power forward early in his career, but didn’t play there much last season. According to 82games.com, the position accounted for just 6 percent of his minutes. The issues with him acting like a big man are obvious: Even for a small forward, he’s not a good rebounder. He cannot handle stronger players on the block and doesn't always show the best weak-side awareness.

It’s just really difficult to field a stingy defense with Jeff Green holding down part of the interior. The formula worked for parts of 2012-13, but he was typically alongside Kevin Garnett, who covered up mistakes as well as anyone. It won’t be as easy to hide Green’s shortcomings when he’s supported by Sullinger, Olynyk, Bass or Tyler Zeller.

Sometimes, though, lineup decisions come down to wanting the most talented players on the court as frequently as possible. Green’s athleticism and shooting ability could pose issues for other power forwards. He wouldn't have to change much offensively because the power forwards in Boston's system generally spend most of their time on the perimeter.

“I like Jeff at the 3 a lot, but I like Jeff at the 4. You create different advantages at each,” Stevens said. “He’s going to have to (work with one of the big men). We’re going to be small. It is what it is. At that point, your guards have to be great rebounders.”

Thankfully, Turner can rebound well for his position. Jeff Green at power forward could work. It has before. But it might also be an idea that sounds OK in Stevens' head and doesn't look nearly as successful in action.

At any rate, Green's return to action should help to clarify more of Stevens' lineup plans. Right now, a lot of our expectations are just guesswork.

Another rotation note

When Rajon Rondo returns, rookie Marcus Smart will see his minutes decrease. But Smart has shown enough already for Stevens to slot him into a sizable role.

"I anticipate him playing a lot of minutes for us," the coach said before Monday's practice.

Smart has missed a lot of shots this preseason, but has shown nothing to diminish preseason hopes that he will become an excellent defender. Although he committed four turnovers -- some of them ugly -- against the Knicks the other night, he has also typically shared the ball well.

Mostly, Stevens suggested, Smart has just been reliable.

"You're inevitably drawn to guys that do the right thing over and over and over," Stevens said. "It's just the way that you feel as a coach. You feel really comfortable with guys like that. And he does that. He's very consistent in doing that."

The coach added: "I think he's really done a great job in most every area. Obviously he's got to make shots more consistently to be the best that he can be. But he can improve on the ball-handling errors that he's had. Those are things you can practice. Those are things we can practice. Those are things that we're going to work on today that he'll be better at just because you haven't had a chance to do them much in 10 days.

"And then, the defensive side of the ball, I'm still blown away by it. We've really hammered on trying to be in great body position. On Saturday, even with less than 24 hours to prepare against the Knicks, he was in it every time. I mean, he has a chance to be a great defender. And we just keep saying that, but he's really done a good job."




bob
MY NOTE: Granted I don't think Danny or anybody else was really sure just how well Crash was going to come back from his surgery, but if they signed Evan Turner with no plans to play him regularly that would be quite odd. It's one thing to bring him in mid-season and expect him to fit into an existing structure, like Indy did, it would be another thing to have him in for camp and with the team all along and still not use him. My question is "will Brad put Turner on the floor at the same time as Green, or will he use Turner as Green's backup and only put him in when Green is sitting?". A 6'7" SG who can ball handle well and who claims to have found religion on defense, could be a very interesting asset. Jeff Green has played SG last year a bit too, so they could almost be interchangeable at 2/3. There could be some real Wow! factor here.



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If Turner pans out, and Green can step it up and find consistency regardless of a couple of different point guards, we have a real luxury.

Can certainly see one or the other being trade bait at some point; more likely Green IMO.

All kinds of possibilities. Green, if he steps it up, Bradley, and a few picks from the grab bag for one. Come late season with a trade deadline approaching and others trying to fill holes or get deeper at 2 and 3, that might at least be the start of something. Green just has to show a little something, and I think we can use him in a deal.

There's plenty of minutes to go around.

Also, I'd say that both Turner and Green are likely trading pieces, if a major trade does arise.


KJ

I can't wait to see Turner and Green on the floor together.  I believe that Turner could be just what Green needs—a reliable offensive threat to take pressure off Jeff as well as a pretty good ball distributor to help get Jeff some easy baskets.  Moreover, I'd like to see the fireworks potential of a Green, Thornton, Turner combination at the 3, 2 and 1 respectively.  All three can shoot from outside and can slash.  I realize some people would be concerned about the defensive ability of this combo.  But I'm coming to like Thornton's defensive intensity.  I've always thought Jeff's defense was underrated.  And I think Turner's height at the "1" would enable him to present defensive problems for opposing 1s.

Sam

NYCelt wrote:If Turner pans out, and Green can step it up and find consistency regardless of a couple of different point guards, we have a real luxury.

Can certainly see one or the other being trade bait at some point; more likely Green IMO.

All kinds of possibilities.  Green, if he steps it up, Bradley, and a few picks from the grab bag for one.  Come late season with a trade deadline approaching and others trying to fill holes or get deeper at 2 and 3, that might at least be the start of something.  Green just has to show a little something, and I think we can use him in a deal.

A team with defensive issues in the paint is gonna look even less imposing with Green as a PF, can't imagine how we could rebound competitively either. Other than dunking, Evan Turner has the handle and vision to set up others, skills needed from the SF position that Jeff Green is lacking....having said that I'm with you hoping Green has a good year so we can use him as trade bait for a Rudy Gobert type 5.

One thing I'd really like to know about Sully and Kelly and Bradley and Thornton is how well they'll come through in the clutch. They haven't played a meaningful game in the pros yet but they will this year, you can just feel it. After that first month of tough opponents, when they may not even win a game, they'll slowly start to make a name for themselves as defensive maniacs who never quit. It'll be a roller coaster ride, win one lose two, win two more, they probably won't get blown out very often, but they'll start to learn what works - relentless defense, outworking their opponents by simply running harder, diving for loose balls, never backing down. They'll discover there's this thing called Celtic pride: after a few wins, especially against teams that are considered superior to them, they'll start looking up at the rafters. There's tradition here and, as they start to win consistently, it will mean more and more to many of these guys.

They may surprise people and even win some of those early games. The great 1986 Celtics team lost 10 games (?) to teams with losing records, which indicates that the Celtics of 2014-15 may sneak up on some people. A lot of teams, such as Cleveland and Chicago, are in transition and may take time to jell. At the same time, they'll think they're better than these no-names from Boston.

It certainly would be nice to have a team full of guys who like to take the last shot. It would be like the 60s Celtics.

rickdavisakaspike wrote:
Turner is an excellent rebounder and isn't afraid to get deep in the paint and fight the big guys when going for the ball.  Not saying that Green is afraid to get elbows and knees knocked, but he should block out more and look for the ball when it's in his area of responsibility.

One thing no one ever mentions about both these players, Turner and Green, is that they don't mind taking those do or die, last second shots.  Turner even looks for the ball in those situations.  That was one of the things everybody loved about Havlicek and Larry and Pierce.  "Gimme the ball.  I'll make it."  That's one of the things we don't know about Sully and Kelly and Bradley and Thornton.

spike,


Excellent points. You want players who want the ball and who know what to do with it. Rondo wants the ball, but he is almost strictly a facilitator. Turner can be both and Green, while he's not much of a facilitator, can certainly score when he is aggressive.


bob


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Spike,

I would remove Bradley from your list of players that "haven't played a meaningful game in the pros yet". Bradley replaced Ray Allen towards the end of one season as starter. When Ray was still here, we still were considered to be contenders and went deep into the playoffs.

gyso

Green and Turner on the court at the same time will be an option when Boston wants to run more.

On the defensive side of the ball Jeff will need to put more effort into rebounding the ball at the 4.

However I do not see Turner as a starter. He is the perfect 6 man and we have not had one of them in a long time. Turner is a three position player and that is rare.

When Rondo comes back that will probably push Turner to the bench. Brad will have the ability with Turner to shake up the lineup in 3 spots.

I am a little surprised that we have not heard Brad mention that role for him.

I think that Thornton is our sniper off the bench and Turner is the 6 man.

We will see what happens.

dboss

Dboss,

I agree that Turner could be a good 6th man after Rondo returns.  However, I'm not sure about the distinction between a "sniper off the bench" and a valuable 6th man.  Downtown Freddy Brown was a sniper off the bench and was known as a great 6th man.  What I'm wondering is whether it's possible to have a double barreled 6th man tandem—one at SG and the other at SF.  I don' believe there are rules about how to use 6th men.

Sam