The Danny Ainge GM Soup Kitchen

http://celticsgreen.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-danny-ainge-gm-soup-kitchen.html


The Danny Ainge GM Soup Kitchen.
By Master Po



Before I am pounced upon by a bunch of die-hard Danny Ainge fan club members (like buzzards picking at the rotting carcass of an old-fashioned thinking Celtic fan), let me first offer up some context as to the timing of this article. It’s not about Rondo and the latest trade.

I know when I write something negative about “Danny The Man”, I’ll be chewed up and spit out by some of you Ainge loyalists. That’s OK. I’m used to it.  The Danny Ainge debate regarding his tenure, and his success as the GM of the Boston Celtics, can never be a real objective debate using pure hard facts. True facts about his character and mental capacity as an NBA GM are subjective at best. In fact, there is no real objective debate to be had at this point. Subjective arguments, as we all proceed downward with another rebuilding season, is about all we have to discuss at this juncture. My subjective arguments aren’t any more or less valid than someone else firmly planted on the other side of the DA equation. Sure, we can sprinkle in a few facts here and there, but beyond those few morsels the argument gets fuzzy and often mean-spirited. Fans, no matter how invested they are in this team are not in the kitchen seeing how things are cooked up. We certainly haven’t been near anything concrete, or seen any thing like the unvarnished truth since 2003 when Danny made a reappearance on the poor streets of Boston and started giving interviews. That’s my subjective perspective anyway regarding the unnecessary doublespeak of DA. This 12 year Boston Celtic chapter is still unfolding. This fact alone makes me a bit queasy - like food poisoning.

As stated above, the timing of this article has nothing really to do with the trading of Rajon Rondo to Dallas. My growing "Tree of Frustration" is full of the bitter fruit of dislike, animosity, and general disdain for Danny Ainge. This tree has long roots that stretch far deeper than this latest trade. Therefore this isn’t some knee-jerk reaction to Rondo being traded, or even a recent example of my frustrations boiling over of the last two seasons or so. I am in way deep with my level of disappointment and frustration with the man from BYU.

In terms of Rondo, I honestly don’t know where the truth lies here. Did Rondo want to be traded? Did Rondo not have any intent of signing a new contract with the Celtics? Maybe he would only sign if it was for the maximum? Maybe he was wish-washy and vacillated in his conversations with Danny. Was Danny just a poor communicator with Rondo in talking thru a new contract? Did Danny make bad assumptions about what Rondo was thinking instead of asking? Did Danny just grow tired of Rondo? Who really knows? I am to the point with Mr. Big Pants Ainge that I don’t really care why something else happened with my beloved team (since 1968 by the way). I only know something else has happened once again under the guidance of this GM that fits a pattern I don’t care for one bit.


What we all know for sure is that Rondo, KG, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Perk are all gone. We also know for sure that there is Banner #17 hanging in Boston Garden. With the exception of Paul Pierce, Danny brought all of these winning ingredients to Boston. He also then summarily shipped every last one of them out. In almost 12 years (2003-2015). Danny helped raise this one banner. I give him props, lucky props, but nonetheless props.  I am convinced Danny has no recipe card or good notes to follow on how to make a good sustainable NBA team. If he was a General Manager of a restaurant, I would say he was miraculously able to make one winning bowl of soup worthy of being named Championship Soup of the year.

I can hear some of you yelling out already” Hey you old cranky fart, he almost made at least one more great bowl of soup the following year. You are correct. Your argument is subjectively valid. I won’t dispute it on factual terms of how close we came to another banner. It is also true many GM’s never make a Championship bowl of soup at all. I see that argument clearly as well, but I still don’t believe that makes Danny a great GM. I think he is at best a mediocre GM who got lucky once in churning thru his chaotic recipe for success. Let me explain my thoughts a bit further, using my old (and somewhat tired) analogy of cooking and Danny Ainge.

I think in 2007 Danny had a magical Julia Child moment of "soup making" by being drunk on failure in the kitchen and thus needing a hail Mary pass to get him thru Year #5 without being fired. It only happened once (this miracle bowl of soup) and mostly by accident. I think Danny drank a whole bottle of cheap wine and decided in a drunken stupor that after 4 + years of abject failure as a GM he would swing for the fences and try to get a super ingredient from his old teammate at GM cooking school - Kevin McHale. That super ingredient was of course Kevin Garnett. KG - the hardest working man/ingredient in NBA show business for the past 20 years. Danny took his luckily found KG secret sauce, and added some extra seasoning called “Ray Allen 3-point Spice”. He then added these two new found super foods to his existing ingredients (roster) and threw them into a saucepan and suddenly a miracle happened. A bell rang and Danny got his wings or ring.

Now keep in mind this wasn't a recipe that Julia Child and Danny had been secretly working on in detail for the first 4 years of his GM career. Rather, this was a recipe that came together in a 4th year of slurring conversations and confusing trades as he sipped and spilled green clover wine all over the parquet floor. I am sure he reflected daily on all the things he already thrown into a cooking pot that tasted and smelled like a bad batch of Campbell’s lumpy mushroom soup.  

Desperation Danny after 4 years of stumbling and fumbling, finally came upon the right ingredients to get a winning bowl of great soup! Good for him and good us fans! Banner 17 had finally arrived and I enjoyed it immensely. However, one lucky experimental crock-pot full of stuff thrown together in desperation doesn’t make for a genius chef or a great General Manager who is supposed to be running a consistent NBA caliber restaurant.

A really good GM works much differently, more eloquently, and over time creates many good recipes. One has to keep making new recipes that patrons always like eating by using slight alterations during each new season to keep it tasting fresh but yet somehow “loyal” to the basic feel of what one comes to expect when they pay their money to enjoy a real Celtic meal.

I think when one closely examines what Danny has done in 12 years as the GM, they will see he has done nothing much except mix in so many bad ingredients in so many different versions of Celtic Soup over and over again. He no longer even has a good bouillabaisse to start the process of building a good mix of something that really simmers and gets better with age. Instead, he just keeps emptying out the pot, throwing away too many things, and then adding back in too many untried ingredients. Ingredients that aren’t really NBA quality or players that have gone stale and lost their flavor.  

Every GM in the NBA is responsible for the ingredients they bring into their kitchen. Each GM will hopefully help the chef/coach make the winning taste of the season for his franchise by bringing in the right stuff to cook with. When a GM doesn’t like the taste, he brings in new ingredients/players and thus changes the quality and quantity which hopefully in turn makes for a better flavor of championship caliber food. If he doesn’t like how the ingredients are mixed together in the right amount every game day, he brings in a new chef/coach. Hopefully, the local patrons (fans) want to come and eat what GM’s and coaches are serving on a regular basis. They will keep coming back for more because they not only love the taste, and the service, but also they love the familiar ambience of their favorite restaurant, as they get their belly full. In short, a patron/fan not only seeks the taste of the whatever the soup of the season is on the menu, but also the loyalty to the tradition of the recipe itself.

If they keep getting an ever-changing menu and the new food doesn’t taste consistently great then pretty soon you have empty seats in your restaurant. The owners will soon be looking for a new GM to fill seats and a new chef.


I have to go a bit further far down the rabbit hole of this restaurant, soup, chef, and ingredients analogy. Please allow me the opportunity to list out for you just SOME of the ingredients that Danny has used in the past 12 years in what I consider mediocre results. Remember, these players I list below (that Danny chose himself) either proved to be either not worthy of the NBA , too old, flavorless and worn out to matter, or finally just “filler” ingredients that might have been good for the recipe had they been used with other established and proven ingredients.

PLAYERS/INGREDIENTS

Carlos Arroyo
Chris Babb
Marcus Banks
Vander Blue
Jason Collins
Jordan Crawford
Ricky Davis
Rasheed Wallace
Dan Dickau
Kenyon Dooling
Scot Pollard
Joel Anthony
Fab Melo
E’Twan Moore
Mikki Moore
Michael Olawokandi
Troy Murphy
Patrick O’Bryant
Jemaine O’Neal
Shaq “Icy Hot” O’Neal
Michael Pietrus
Kevin Pinckney
Jumaine Jones
Kris Joseph
Nenad Kristic
Oliver Layfeyette
Raef “Bad Knees” Lafretnz
Marcus Landry
Stephon Marbury
Vitor Faverani
Michael Finley
J.R. Giddens
Orien Green
Ryan Gomes
Tom Gugliotta
Luke Harangody
Ryan Hollis
Lester Hudson
Brandon Hunter
Chris Johnson
JaJuan Johnson
Nate Robinson
Dwayne Jones
Gabe Pruitt
Theo Ratliff
Justin Reed
Greg Stiemsa
Wally Sczerbiak
Jarvis Varnado
Michael Stewart
Von Wafer
Bill Walker
Jiri Welsch
DT White
Sean Williams
and the list could go on……….and it will go on in 2015,16,17 or until the shelf life of Danny and his half-cooked soup has expired. I certainly don’t want to eat any more of this stuff, and yet I must eat more because I am a loyal fan.

My point in all of this? Before the miraculous 2007-2008 drunken Julia Child moment in the Celtic kitchen, and since that one lucky moment going forward (clear through the start of 2015), Danny Ainge hasn’t been running a restaurant or an NBA team very well. He is simply throwing too many things into a cooking pot, heating it up a bit, and then adding and subtracting a nonsensical amount of crazy ingredients called players. He is acting as if he is overseeing a well run restaurant, with a great staff, a great chef, some proven recipes, and all the right ingredients cooked just long enough for damn good soup! He isn't and I don't think he ever will!!!!

Danny Boy got lucky once using a couple of super ingredients that made him look like he was one of the best GM’s to ever run an NBA kitchen in the last 12 years. His new chef is Brad Stevens, who is trying to prove himself (fresh out of college cooking school) by trying to work in a kitchen full of new and unproven ingredients that may never mix well together to make a winning combination.

But young little Brad’s job will be even tougher because Danny is once again loaded with draft picks and cap space. Danny will once again start the whole flawed cooking process over again. This will take years if the owners give it to him. I pray they do not.

Danny should have kept Paul Pierce and even maybe KG and Perk in the Celtic kitchen out of pure loyalty to the Celtic patrons. Paul Pierce earned the right to greet customers as they came in for a good bowl of Celtic loyalty! But oh no, Danny was instead way too busy wasting money and time on the long list of players you see listed above, many of whom had no place in the kitchen in the first place, let alone in the soup.

Danny has showed almost zero class with too many of his players over the years by publicly dangling them out over and over again as trade bait meat. Paul Pierce wanted to retire a Celtic as he stated it over and over again but he wasn’t allowed. Hey Danny!!!! if you’re going to run a restaurant for 12 years, and only have one good bowl of soup in 12 years, then for the love of all that is green, at least show some class and some Celtic loyalty to your patrons and to your core players. Better yet, just move on to a new town and open up a fast food place called Danny’s Drive Thru.


Is it soup yet? Oh hell no!!!!!




bob
MY NOTE:  I would feel SO much better about these critiques if they compared Danny to some other GMs rather than judging him like it is a laboratory experiment where you can predict the resultsame in advance.  He talks about how a really good GA works but, if you notice, he doesn't name one and provide the same analysis he did for Danny to prove his point.  Other than San Antonio, who else has been better?  Indy?  Larry put together the talent but they are underachievers.  Draw up a list of the players Larry has shuttled through and they'll look good, but no cigar for him.  Miami?  Talk about having a Julia Child moment, that's Pat Riley.  New players are drafted every year, often multiple players.  How many stick?  From 2008 to 2013 Danny has had lousy draft position, because we were good, and no cap space precisely because of those players he's saying Danny should have kept but he just lists names.  Most of those players were late first or second rounders who rarely make it and trade fillers.    I'm taking a "wait and see" approach to the Rondo trade because there is that $12.9M TPE but otherwise he has been active and Sully and Smart are looking good as draft picks.  Kelly may or may not work out, but I'd bet money in a year he'll draw interest on the trade front.  Add Bass and the TPE and it could be soup.  Dangle some of Brooklyn's draft choices from the trade he says Danny shouldn't have made and maybe it's soup and salad.

This isn't a sprint.  For someone with the handle 'Master Po' he sounds more like 'Grasshopper'.  Patience.



.


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Master Po wrote:I can hear some of you yelling out already” Hey you old cranky fart, he almost made at least one more great bowl of soup the following year. You are correct. Your argument is subjectively valid.

No, that argument is objectively valid. They were a championship contender in 2008-09 and very well could have won had Garnett not been injured. In 2009-10, they made it to the finals, had a 3-2 lead, and lost in game 7.

This guy is all too willing to build arguments against Ainge but unwilling to give Ainge credit for what he actually objectively achieved -- a sustained championship contender.

To top that off, not only does he not give Ainge credit for building a multi-year contender, but then he bashes him for not keeping Pierce, KG, and Perk even though his argument is that they were a non-contender (since he only gives the 2007-08 team credit as championship contender status).

And like Bob says, no comparison or scrutiny for any other GM.

If we're going with food analogies, his argument is Swiss cheese.

I think we have to see this one play out.

With all those picks there is no way Danny can blow this one is there? We need to see some real quality drafts picks and we need to see quality veterans added that are better than the ones we traded.

My biggest issue with Danny is that he manipulates the truth. He says one thing and does another.

Truth be told I do not think Danny knows what he is going to do but I am sure that whatever it is you will not be able to count on it actually happening.

dboss

Master Po is a ******** jerk.  He uses his position as a moderator (or whatever his title is) on Jeff Clark's CelticBlog to his advantage whenever someone disagrees with him.  I have seen it over and over again.

The CelticBlog is generally a well run place, with no room for trolling.  Why they allow this member of the staff to run over so many members is beyond me.  His past actions are generally why I avoid the place.

Yes, he is a card carrying Danny Ainge hater.  He serves this tripe over and over and many intelligent posters have picked holes in his argument.  It is an endless cycle; he starts threads like this, others make counter arguments, he just repeats the same drivel back at them, he gets fed up with other members and their logic, pulls his boss trump card and then goes and hides in the burrow he lives in.  A couple months later, he pokes his head up and starts in again.

I see that he at it again on a different channel.

gyso

while I am not as enamoured with Ainge over his entire tenure here, this guys goes WAY too far.

yes Ainge got the name "Trader Danny" for a reason. and yes early on he seemed to make trades only to make trades.

he also didn't have a good record on drafting players early.

but he's grown into the job over time, IMO. you don't see those "trades just to trade" anymore. and the drafting has gotten better (except for Melo).

and finally, YES bring the players in the got a title DOES bring you some cred in the NBA.

how long does that last?

as long as the owners think it should is the real answer.

look, if the Cletics are still floundering with no apparent trend up in two years...Ainge will be gone.


but he knows it and I think he'd love nothing more that to be the man in charge for the next title........with a COMPLETELY NEW SET OF PLAYERS.

KDP

So you say DA had a poor record drafting early?

Can you be a little specific? I'm sure he passed over better players as did everyone else in every draft since the creation of it, so just how did he fail worse than others?

beat

I understand it may be somewhat a personal opinion about Ainge's earlier drafting.

so I have mine and I'll leave it at that, as I think it doesn't matter today (as I noted).

I'm certainly not wanting to get in a debate about is Ainge great, average, poor.

I hope he's in charge when we get the next title...then any debate will be moot.

I believe that a similar list of players who have not contributed as a star can be attached to every general manager in the NBA who has over 12 seasons on the job.

Ainge is just like every other GM, he tries to "hit" on every deal. It is just that he doesn't get a hit every time he swings.

Kdp

Not debating anything
Actually looking back on those picks they were not all that bad given the slots we had.

If you state an opinion I'd like to hear the reasoning behind it is all.

If anything I think his early picks (first couple years) were perhaps the better ones. In 2004 we picked Al Jefferson #15 Delonte West #24 and Tony Allen #25

Ryan Gomes was the #50 pick the next year and he did ok.

beat

Date Player
May-03 Ainge Takes over

Jun-03 Rights to D. Songaila traded
for #56 pick/2003 and 2005 #53 pick

Jun-03 Drafter B. Hunter #56

Jun-03 Traded draft picks D. Jones and T.Bell
for K. Perkins and M. Banks

Jul-03 re-signed M. Blount and W. McCarthy

Jul-03 FA- M.James

Jul-03 Traded JR Bruner, B. Sundov 2005 #50 pick
for J. Jones

Oct-03 Traded A. Walker and T. Delk
for R. Lafrentz, J. Welsch, C. Mills, 2004 #24 pick

Dec-03 Traded E. Williams, T. Battie, K. Brown
for R. Davis, C. Mihm, M. Stewart, 2005 #50 pick

Feb-04 Traded C. Mills, M. James
for L. Hunter, C. Atkins, 2004 #25 pick, Cash

Apr-04 FA- D. Barros

Apr-04 Signed D. Rivers as head Coach

Jun-04 Drafted  A. Jefferson #15, D. West #24
T. Allen #25 and J. Reed #40

Jul-04 re-Signed M. Blunt to a 6yr/ $42M deal

Aug-04 Re-signed C. Mihm

Aug-04 FA- T. Gugliotta

Aug-04 Traded C. Mihm, C. Atkins, J. Jones
for G. Payton, R. Fox, 2006 #21 pick and cash

Feb-05 Traded W. McCarty and cash
for 2005 # 49 pick

Feb-05 Traded J. Welsch
for 2007 #24 pick

Feb-05 Traded G. Payton, T. Gugliotta,M. Stewart, 2006 #21 pick
for A. Walker

Jun-05 Drafted G. Green #18, R. Gomes #50, O. Greene #53

Jul-05 FA- B. Scalabrine- 5yr/$15M deal

Aug-05 re-signed A. Walker to 6yr/$53M deal

Aug-05 Traded  A, Walker
for Q. Woods, C. Borchardt, A. Miralles, 2006 #56 pick,
2007 #31 pick and cash

Aug-05 FA- W. Bynum

Sep-05 Trade 2006 #56 pick
for D. Dickau

Jan-06 Traded  R. Davis, M. Banks, M. Blount, J. Reed, 2006 #36 pick, 2008 #31 pick
for W. Szczerbiak, M. Olowokandi, D. Jones, 2009 #6 pick

Jun-06 drafted R. Foye #7

Jun-06 Traded 2007 #49 pick
for L. Powe

Jun-06 Traded 2007 #24 pick
for B. Grant, R. Rondo and cash

Jun-06 Traded D. Dickau, R. LaFrentz. R. Foye
for S. Telfair. T. Ratliff, 2008 #46 pick

Jul-06 FA- A Ray

Jul-06 Re-signed P. Pierce 3yr/$60M

Sep-06 Re-signed K. Perkins 4yr/$20M

Jun-07 Drafted J. Green #5, G. Pruitt #32

Jun-07 Traded J. Green, W. Szczerbiak, D. West, 2008 #46 pick
for R. Allen, G. Davis

Jul-07 Traded A. Jefferson, G. Green, T. Ratliff, R. Gomes, S. Telfair
2009 #6 Pick, 2009 #28 pick, Cash
for K. Garnett

Jul-07 Re-signed K. Garnett to a 3yr/ $51M extention

Aug-07 FA- E. House, S. Pollard- 1yr Minimum deals

Aug-07 FA- J. Posey- 2yr/ $7M deal

Feb-08 FA- PJ. Brown- 1yr/Minumum deal

Mar-08 FA- S. Cassell

Jun-08 Drafted- JR Giddons #30, S. Efden #60

Jun-08 Trade Cash
right to B. Walker

Jul-08 FA- P. O'Bryant- 2yr/$3M deal

Jul-08 re-signed E. House- 2yr/$5.6M

Jul-08 Re-signed T. Allen- 2yr/$5M

Aug-08 FA- D. Miles- 1yr/ Minimum

Sep-08 Re-signed S. Cassell- 1yr deal

Feb-09 Traded- S. Cassell
for 2015 second round pick

Feb-09 traded P. O'Bryant
for 2014 second roud pick

Feb-09 FA- M. Moore, S. Marbury

Jun-09 Drafted- L. Hudson #58

Jul-09 FA- R. Wallace- 3yr/$18.9M

Aug-09 FA- S. Williams- 1yr/ Minimum

Aug-09 Re-signed G. Davis- 2yr/$6.3M

Sep-09 FA- M. Daniels- 1 yr/$2M

Nov-09 Re-signed R> Rondo- 5yr/$55M

Feb-10 Traded- E. House, JR Giddons, B. Walker, 2014 second round pick
for N., Robinson, M. Landry

Mar-10 FA- M. Finley

Jun-10 Drafted- A. Bradley #19, L. Harangody #52

Jul-10 Re-Signed R. Allen- 2yr/$20M

Jul-10 FA- J. 0'Neal- 2yr/$11.5M

Jul-10 Re-signed P. Pierce- 4yr/$61M

Jul-10 Re-signed- N. Robinson- 2yr/$4M

Jul-10 Re-signed M. Daniels- 1yr/$2.5M

Jul-10 Signed V. Wafer- 1yr/Minimum

Aug-10 Signed S. O'Neal- 2 yr/ Minimum

Sep-10 Signed D. West

Feb-11 Traded L. Harangody, S. Erden
for 2013 #39 Pick

Feb-11 Traded M. Daniels , Cash
for 2017 secomd round pick

Feb-11 Traded K. Perkins, N. Robinson
for J. Green, N. Krstic, 2012 #22 pick

Mar-11 FA- T. Murphy

Mar-11 FA- S. Pavlovic

Mar-11 FA- C. Arroyo

Jun-11 Drafted- M. Brooks #25, E. Moore #55
Traded M. Brooks for J. Johnson and 2014 #47 Pick

Dec-11 FA- C. Wilcox- 3yr/$9.4M

Dec-11 FA- G. Stiemsma- minimum deal

Dec-11 Trade- A. Miralles
for K. Dooling

Dec-11 Re-signed G. Davis- 4yr/$26M

Dec-11 FA- M. Daniels

Dec-11 Re-signed A. Pavlovic

Dec-11 Trade- G. Davis, V. Wafer
for B. Bass

Dec-11 FA- M. Pietrus- 1yr/$1.3M

Mar-12 FA- R. Hollins

Apr-12 FA- Sean Williams

Jun-12 Draft- J. Sullinger #21, F. Melo #22, K. Jospeh #51

Jul-12 Re-signed B. Bass- 3yr

Jul-12 Re-signed C. Wilcox- 1 yr Minimum

Jul-12 Re-signed K. Garnett- 3 yr/ $34M

Jul-12 FA- J. Terry- 3yr/ $15,6M

Jul-12 Re-signed S. Pavlovic

Jul-12 Trade- S. Williams, E. Moore, J. Johnon, S. Pavlovic, 2013 #32, 39,45 picks, cash
for C. Lee

Jul-13 Team withdrew qualifyng offer on G. Stiemsma makinh him an UFA

Jul-13 FA- J. Collins- 1yr minimum

Jul-13 Re-signed K. Dooling- 1yr Minimum

Aug-13 Re-signed J. Green- 4 yr/ $36M

Sep-12 FA- D. Milicic

10/212 FA- L. Barbosa- 1yr

Dec-12 FA- J. Varnado

Feb-13 FA- T. Williams

2/2/2013 Trade- J. Collins, L. Barbosa
for J. Crawford

Mar-13 FA- DJ White

Mar-13 FA- S. Randolph

Jun-13 Draft- L. Nogueira #16
traded L. Noguieira, 2014 #34 and #47 picks for K. Olynyk

Jun-13 Traded Cash
for C. Iverson

Jun-13 received 2015 first round pick for releasing Rivers from his deal

Jul-13 Hired B. Stevens as Head coach

Jul-13 Traded- P. Pierce, K. Garnett, J. Terry, DJ White
for G. wallace, K. Humphries, M. Brooks, K. Joseph, k. Bogans
2014 #17 pick, 2016 first round pick, 2018 first round pick, option to swap 2017 picks

Jul-13 FA- P. Pressey

Jul-13 FA- V. Faverani- 3yr/ $6M

Aug-13 Traded - F. Melo
for D. Greene

Jan-14 Traded- C. Lee, 2016 second round pick
for J. Bayless, R. Gomes

Jan-14 traded- J. Crawford, M. Brooks
for J. Anthony,2015, 2016 secodn roound picks, cash

Feb-14 FA- C. Johnson

Mar-14 FA- C. Babb

Jun-14 Drafted- M. Smart#6, J. Young #17

Jul-14 Traded- 2015 secodn round pick, trade exception
for T. Zeller, M. Thornton, 2016 first round pick

Jul-14 re-signed- A. Bradley- 4yr/$32M

Jul-14 Trade- K. Humphires (sign and trade)
2015 second round pick, trade exception

Aug-14 FA- E. Turner- 2yr/ $6.5M

Sep-14 Traded- K. Bogans, 2015 secodn round pick, 2017 secdon round pick
for D. Powell, E. Murphy, M. Thomas, J. Lucas, 2016 and 21017 second round picks


your right....it's been his questionable Free agent signings and trades more than his draft picks that were a problem early.

I need to update my list I see!!

Again all I stated was your comment on the draft.

As for free agents ..............????
I don;t have the time to collect all the wiffs from other teams that didn't pan out either.

DA turned assets into a winner and could have had 3 if not for injuries. In 12 years being a contender for even 5 of those years is a heck of a lot better than most of the other teams.

beat

"In Danny We Trust."

Quite the mantra, and in many respects is well-deserved. He did orchestrate a perfect storm that led to the 2008 title, several other deep playoff runs, and another title appearance against LA.

But as we all know, the NBA is a "what have you done for me lately" game. I was under the impression that, after the PP-KG and subsequent trades throughout last season and leading up to this season, that Danny had a pretty solid plan in place. But this recent trade has shaken a bit of my confidence. Not so much that the trade took place, but the fact that he allowed himself to be fleeced this time around.

How many more draft picks are needed? What are the odds of a higher-priced talent actually staying once their contract is up if Danny can somehow swing another trade? It takes a good bit of luck to keep one long enough to sign a few others to complete the puzzle. That is something I do not see happening any time soon, especially if the Celtics are indeed shopping Jeff Green.

Building a young core is a nice idea, but it's not practical if you want to win a championship. Titles are won overwhelmingly with veteran leadership.



KJ

kdp59 wrote:Date Player
May-03 Ainge Takes over

Jun-03 Rights to D. Songaila traded
for #56 pick/2003 and 2005 #53 pick

Jun-03 Drafter B. Hunter #56

Jun-03 Traded draft picks D. Jones and T.Bell
for K. Perkins and M. Banks

Jul-03 re-signed M. Blount and W. McCarthy

Jul-03 FA- M.James

Jul-03 Traded JR Bruner, B. Sundov 2005 #50 pick
for J. Jones

Oct-03 Traded A. Walker and T. Delk
for R. Lafrentz, J. Welsch, C. Mills, 2004 #24 pick

Dec-03 Traded E. Williams, T. Battie, K. Brown
for R. Davis, C. Mihm, M. Stewart, 2005 #50 pick

Feb-04 Traded C. Mills, M. James
for L. Hunter, C. Atkins, 2004 #25 pick, Cash

Apr-04 FA- D. Barros

Apr-04 Signed D. Rivers as head Coach

Jun-04 Drafted  A. Jefferson #15, D. West #24
T. Allen #25 and J. Reed #40

Jul-04 re-Signed M. Blunt to a 6yr/ $42M deal

Aug-04 Re-signed C. Mihm

Aug-04 FA- T. Gugliotta

Aug-04 Traded C. Mihm, C. Atkins, J. Jones
for G. Payton, R. Fox, 2006 #21 pick and cash

Feb-05 Traded W. McCarty and cash
for 2005 # 49 pick

Feb-05 Traded J. Welsch
for 2007 #24 pick

Feb-05 Traded G. Payton, T. Gugliotta,M. Stewart, 2006 #21 pick
for A. Walker

Jun-05 Drafted G. Green #18, R. Gomes #50, O. Greene #53

Jul-05 FA- B. Scalabrine- 5yr/$15M deal

Aug-05 re-signed A. Walker to 6yr/$53M deal

Aug-05 Traded  A, Walker
for Q. Woods, C. Borchardt, A. Miralles, 2006 #56 pick,
2007 #31 pick and cash

Aug-05 FA- W. Bynum

Sep-05 Trade 2006 #56 pick
for D. Dickau

Jan-06 Traded  R. Davis, M. Banks, M. Blount, J. Reed, 2006 #36 pick, 2008 #31 pick
for W. Szczerbiak, M. Olowokandi, D. Jones, 2009 #6 pick

Jun-06 drafted R. Foye #7

Jun-06 Traded 2007 #49 pick
for L. Powe

Jun-06 Traded 2007 #24 pick
for B. Grant, R. Rondo and cash

Jun-06 Traded D. Dickau, R. LaFrentz. R. Foye
for S. Telfair. T. Ratliff, 2008 #46 pick

Jul-06 FA- A Ray

Jul-06 Re-signed P. Pierce 3yr/$60M

Sep-06 Re-signed K. Perkins 4yr/$20M

Jun-07 Drafted J. Green #5, G. Pruitt #32

Jun-07 Traded J. Green, W. Szczerbiak, D. West, 2008 #46 pick
for R. Allen, G. Davis

Jul-07 Traded A. Jefferson, G. Green, T. Ratliff, R. Gomes, S. Telfair
2009 #6 Pick, 2009 #28 pick, Cash
for K. Garnett

Jul-07 Re-signed K. Garnett to a 3yr/ $51M extention

Aug-07 FA- E. House, S. Pollard- 1yr Minimum deals

Aug-07 FA- J. Posey- 2yr/ $7M deal

Feb-08 FA- PJ. Brown- 1yr/Minumum deal

Mar-08 FA- S. Cassell

Jun-08 Drafted- JR Giddons #30, S. Efden #60

Jun-08 Trade Cash
right to B. Walker

Jul-08 FA- P. O'Bryant- 2yr/$3M deal

Jul-08 re-signed E. House- 2yr/$5.6M

Jul-08 Re-signed T. Allen- 2yr/$5M

Aug-08 FA- D. Miles- 1yr/ Minimum

Sep-08 Re-signed S. Cassell- 1yr deal

Feb-09 Traded- S. Cassell
for 2015 second round pick

Feb-09 traded P. O'Bryant
for 2014 second roud pick

Feb-09 FA- M. Moore, S. Marbury

Jun-09 Drafted- L. Hudson #58

Jul-09 FA- R. Wallace- 3yr/$18.9M

Aug-09 FA- S. Williams- 1yr/ Minimum

Aug-09 Re-signed G. Davis- 2yr/$6.3M

Sep-09 FA- M. Daniels- 1 yr/$2M

Nov-09 Re-signed R> Rondo- 5yr/$55M

Feb-10 Traded- E. House, JR Giddons, B. Walker, 2014 second round pick
for N., Robinson, M. Landry

Mar-10 FA- M. Finley

Jun-10 Drafted- A. Bradley #19, L. Harangody #52

Jul-10 Re-Signed R. Allen- 2yr/$20M

Jul-10 FA- J. 0'Neal- 2yr/$11.5M

Jul-10 Re-signed P. Pierce- 4yr/$61M

Jul-10 Re-signed- N. Robinson- 2yr/$4M

Jul-10 Re-signed M. Daniels- 1yr/$2.5M

Jul-10 Signed V. Wafer- 1yr/Minimum

Aug-10 Signed S. O'Neal- 2 yr/ Minimum

Sep-10 Signed D. West

Feb-11 Traded L. Harangody, S. Erden
for 2013 #39 Pick

Feb-11 Traded M. Daniels , Cash
for 2017 secomd round pick

Feb-11 Traded K. Perkins, N. Robinson
for J. Green, N. Krstic, 2012 #22 pick

Mar-11 FA- T. Murphy

Mar-11 FA- S. Pavlovic

Mar-11 FA- C. Arroyo

Jun-11 Drafted- M. Brooks #25, E. Moore #55
Traded M. Brooks for J. Johnson and 2014 #47 Pick

Dec-11 FA- C. Wilcox- 3yr/$9.4M

Dec-11 FA- G. Stiemsma- minimum deal

Dec-11 Trade- A. Miralles
for K. Dooling

Dec-11 Re-signed G. Davis- 4yr/$26M

Dec-11 FA- M. Daniels

Dec-11 Re-signed A. Pavlovic

Dec-11 Trade- G. Davis, V. Wafer
for B. Bass

Dec-11 FA- M. Pietrus- 1yr/$1.3M

Mar-12 FA- R. Hollins

Apr-12 FA- Sean Williams

Jun-12 Draft- J. Sullinger #21, F. Melo #22, K. Jospeh #51

Jul-12 Re-signed B. Bass- 3yr

Jul-12 Re-signed C. Wilcox- 1 yr Minimum

Jul-12 Re-signed K. Garnett- 3 yr/ $34M

Jul-12 FA- J. Terry- 3yr/ $15,6M

Jul-12 Re-signed S. Pavlovic

Jul-12 Trade- S. Williams, E. Moore, J. Johnon, S. Pavlovic, 2013 #32, 39,45 picks, cash
for C. Lee

Jul-13 Team withdrew qualifyng offer on G. Stiemsma makinh him an UFA

Jul-13 FA- J. Collins- 1yr minimum

Jul-13 Re-signed K. Dooling- 1yr Minimum

Aug-13 Re-signed J. Green- 4 yr/ $36M

Sep-12 FA- D. Milicic

10/212 FA- L. Barbosa- 1yr

Dec-12 FA- J. Varnado

Feb-13 FA- T. Williams

2/2/2013 Trade- J. Collins, L. Barbosa
for J. Crawford

Mar-13 FA- DJ White

Mar-13 FA- S. Randolph

Jun-13 Draft- L. Nogueira #16
traded L. Noguieira, 2014 #34 and #47 picks for K. Olynyk

Jun-13 Traded Cash
for C. Iverson

Jun-13 received 2015 first round pick for releasing Rivers from his deal

Jul-13 Hired B. Stevens as Head coach

Jul-13 Traded- P. Pierce, K. Garnett, J. Terry, DJ White
for G. wallace, K. Humphries, M. Brooks, K. Joseph, k. Bogans
2014 #17 pick, 2016 first round pick, 2018 first round pick, option to swap 2017 picks

Jul-13 FA- P. Pressey

Jul-13 FA- V. Faverani- 3yr/ $6M

Aug-13 Traded - F. Melo
for D. Greene

Jan-14 Traded- C. Lee, 2016 second round pick
for J. Bayless, R. Gomes

Jan-14 traded- J. Crawford, M. Brooks
for J. Anthony,2015, 2016 secodn roound picks, cash

Feb-14 FA- C. Johnson

Mar-14 FA- C. Babb

Jun-14 Drafted- M. Smart#6, J. Young #17

Jul-14 Traded- 2015 secodn round pick, trade exception
for T. Zeller, M. Thornton, 2016 first round pick

Jul-14 re-signed- A. Bradley- 4yr/$32M

Jul-14 Trade- K. Humphires (sign and trade)
2015 second round pick, trade exception

Aug-14 FA- E. Turner- 2yr/ $6.5M

Sep-14 Traded- K. Bogans, 2015 secodn round pick, 2017 secdon round pick
for D. Powell, E. Murphy, M. Thomas, J. Lucas, 2016 and 21017 second round picks


your right....it's been his questionable Free agent signings and trades more than his draft picks that were a problem early.

I need to update my list I see!!

Kdp,

Could you provide the link for this info, please? I'don't like to see how other GMs fared during the same period.

How many of the free agent signings were for more than fillers? We haven't signed a major free agent in a long time. Is that Danny's fault? Maybe, but it is hard to hang something like that all one one person, especially when he hasn't had the cap space one needs to sign the big name, high impact free agents. Barbosa, for example, was a signer whose projected playing minutes were unpredictable because of the logjam in front of him. He ended up getting some minutes after Rondo went down, and then he did too, but otherwise he wasn't signed to be a starter or even as a 6th man. We had Lee, Bradley and JET in front of him at SG. I was excited at the time, not to be a sel-delusional history rewriter, to have not one but two NBA 6th Man on the team (JET being the other). It didn't work out but I sure thought it was positive back then and so did Danny. In fact, I thought he should have gotten some of Bradley or Lee's minutes when our offense stalled.

The next year or two will be interesting. Cap space freeing up, good draft picks (ours and Brooklyn's) by the barrel. This is new territory for Ainge. Oh, no, wait a second, it isn't new for him at all. Like now he had a few years of shifty teams where player development (Big Al, Gomes, West then, Sully, Kelly, Smart now) was where we were at and some good picks (we had #5 in 2007) leading up to the summer before the 2008 season.

And look how that turned out.

If you're making soup, you have to be patient and let it cook. A watched pot doesn't boil, the old saying goes, and we as Celtics fans are watching this pot very intently.



bob



.

k_j_88 wrote:"In Danny We Trust."

Quite the mantra, and in many respects is well-deserved. He did orchestrate a perfect storm that led to the 2008 title, several other deep playoff runs, and another title appearance against LA.

But as we all know, the NBA is a "what have you done for me lately" game. I was under the impression that, after the PP-KG and subsequent trades throughout last season and leading up to this season, that Danny had a pretty solid plan in place. But this recent trade has shaken a bit of my confidence. Not so much that the trade took place, but the fact that he allowed himself to be fleeced this time around.

How many more draft picks are needed? What are the odds of a higher-priced talent actually staying once their contract is up if Danny can somehow swing another trade? It takes a good bit of luck to keep one long enough to sign a few others to complete the puzzle. That is something I do not see happening any time soon, especially if the Celtics are indeed shopping Jeff Green.

Building a young core is a nice idea, but it's not practical if you want to win a championship. Titles are won overwhelmingly with veteran leadership.



KJ

KJ There have been 4 championship periods in the history of the Celtics.

The 12 years that Ainge has run the show would be 4 on the list in terms of success.

To me he is an average GM at best. I am not comparing him to other GM's just to Celtics GM's

The Celtics were contenders for two years under Ainge.  After they traded Perkins they were no longer contenders.  They made playoff runs but the team was never as good.  

In 12 years how many players has Ainge drafted that became Allstars....?   A function of draft position?..At present I do not see one player on this team that will be considered an allstar except for maybe Jeff Green (and he will not make it either as long as lebron and Melo are playing)

I still say we must wait to see this thing through.  Whatever this thing is.  He is suppossed to be a savy GM but even with 9 first rounders before the 2014 draft he still could not add one high end piece.  That scares me because trading players for more picks may be a questionable strategy.

The last time we had a wow reaction was in 07-08.  

If the Celtics keep changing out 5 to 6 players every year they will never be a consistent winner.  DA is a tinkerer.  To me he is like a kid with a toy who keeps f---ing with it until the damn thing breaks.

dboss

NOW BOB.....WHAT ARE YOU FEELING ............AND HOW DO YOU REALLY REALLY FEEL ABOUT DANNY.............LOL

SEASON GREETINGS!


112288

dboss wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:"In Danny We Trust."

Quite the mantra, and in many respects is well-deserved. He did orchestrate a perfect storm that led to the 2008 title, several other deep playoff runs, and another title appearance against LA.

But as we all know, the NBA is a "what have you done for me lately" game. I was under the impression that, after the PP-KG and subsequent trades throughout last season and leading up to this season, that Danny had a pretty solid plan in place. But this recent trade has shaken a bit of my confidence. Not so much that the trade took place, but the fact that he allowed himself to be fleeced this time around.

How many more draft picks are needed? What are the odds of a higher-priced talent actually staying once their contract is up if Danny can somehow swing another trade? It takes a good bit of luck to keep one long enough to sign a few others to complete the puzzle. That is something I do not see happening any time soon, especially if the Celtics are indeed shopping Jeff Green.

Building a young core is a nice idea, but it's not practical if you want to win a championship. Titles are won overwhelmingly with veteran leadership.



KJ

KJ There have been 4 championship periods in the history of the Celtics.

The 12 years that Ainge has run the show would be 4 on the list in terms of success.  

To me he is an average GM at best.  I am not comparing him to other GM's just to Celtics GM's  

The Celtics were contenders for two years under Ainge.  After they traded Perkins they were no longer contenders.  They made playoff runs but the team was never as good.  

In 12 years how many players has Ainge drafted that became Allstars....?   A function of draft position?..At present I do not see one player on this team that will be considered an allstar except for maybe Jeff Green (and he will not make it either as long as lebron and Melo are playing)

I still say we must wait to see this thing through.  Whatever this thing is.  He is suppossed to be a savy GM but even with 9 first rounders before the 2014 draft he still could not add one high end piece.  That scares me because trading players for more picks may be a questionable strategy.

The last time we had a wow reaction was in 07-08.  

If the Celtics keep changing out 5 to 6 players every year they will never be a consistent winner.  DA is a tinkerer.  To me he is like a kid with a toy who keeps f---ing with it until the damn thing breaks.

dboss

Dboss,

To me, comparing Danny to other CELTIC GMs is like comparing the Russell Era players to the current Era players.  Danny is competing with a different CBA,  he has to deal with free-agency (e.g. what to do with Rondo when Rondo and his agent are playing cat-and-mouse?) and he has to compete with 29 other GMS who want the same high-impact players.  When there were only 8 teams in the league the talent was concentrated as there were but a fraction of open roster slots available and Darwinian selection was fierce.  As the league expanded and rosters bloated out to 15 players, that eased and talent became more diluted.  The opposite is true when it comes to management.   Red only had to compete against 7 or 8 GMs.   Witness the Kevin Love Sweepstakes.  Look at all the teams that were making offers.  Off the top of my head I remember Boston, GSW, Denver, Dallas, Cleveland.  That, and Minny itself, would be 3/4 the league in Red's day but today Danny had to deal with Philly throwing in Thaddeus Young to make a multi-team deal sweeter than what Danny could put together.  

And speaking of Red, is it really fair to compare Danny to him?  That's like comparing a really, really good painter to Da Vinci or Picasso or Renoir.  Ok, so if Red freaking Auerbach is numero uno, who else is better?  Jan Volk?  What makes Jan Volk so much better than Danny?  After Red drafted Bird and Red pulled off the McHale/Parish heist, what did Jan Volk do that was so memorable?  Pitino?  Danny's moving up in the standings now, isn't he?



bob



.

112288 wrote:NOW BOB.....WHAT ARE YOU FEELING ............AND HOW DO YOU REALLY REALLY FEEL ABOUT DANNY.............LOL

SEASON GREETINGS!


112288

112288,

Seasons Greetings to you too. It's quite comfortable here in Chiang Mai, Thailand.


bob



.

Enjoy Bob...don't get a sun burn....you lucky dog!

Safe Home!

112288

Bob,

here you go:

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/


you can search by team/year/player/etc.

I have Danny's on a word doc from previous years arguments on the other forum...LOL.

Like I said I think Ainge HAS improved and think the writer is WAY overboard.

But we all can see that Ainge has made his share of wiff's and WTF moves.......thankfully most are in the past ( sorry to those who may still be upset by the Rondo trade).

I in no way consider myself an Ainge basher , but I do pride myself on not wearing eyeglasses shaded by any of my favorite teams or their players/execs/etc.

Ainge has developed into a better than average NBA exec IMO.

Rather than creating a separate thread for this I'm just tacking this on.




   



Danny Ainge--Counterargument to Po's Position

By Lee Lauderdale



Master Po a la mode!

Let me heap some praise on Master Po for his serving of distasteful Danny Ainge pie. Couching your assessement of Ainge's tenure as GM in a cooking analogy is editorial genius. As I have reread the article I find myself loathe to contradict because your depiction is a hearty meal of prose; but object I must. For while Danny's reign has left a bitter taste on your palate, that same decade has brought me a smorgasboad of heartwarming treats. Thus endeth my humble effort to match your prose in kind, now to the particulars of my mental discordance.

I hardly think Ainge has steered the Celtic franchise without misstep. However on the main points I find myself in agreement with our Morman third baseman who will forever be remembered as the dog that bit Tree Rollins (when the reverse is true). Danny took over a club still basking in the glow of the fool's gold of an Eastern Conference Finals appearance. He, quite properly in my opinion, noted that the Celtics had made their run in an “off” year for the conference, with a mishmash of players mostly limited and aging, with smoke and mirrors and a bombardment of three-pointers, with heart but a lot of luck, and an unsustainable overachieving band of gunners. He chose to cut bait and bide his time before getting back to fishing.

I flinched at the departure of Antoine Walker, but ultimately agreed that his volume shooting of 3-point shots (since there aren't any four pointers) subverted his crafty inside game and did little to include or improve or enhance his teammates. I quailed at the departure of Tony Battie and Eric Williams, ultimate glue guys and fearless warriors but limited with no future upside. After the nauseating decade of the 90's it was hard to let go of the ray of optimism from that Finals appearance; but my head said Boston's last championship contender was in the 80's and that the current “success” was an illusion. Ultimately I found myself thankful that Danny could take the hard look, make the hard decision, and start down the hard road to a return to contention.

Indeed things got worse, much worse in some peoples' eyes; but the darkest days were just before the dawn. It was a period marked by threshing, thrashing, and trashing. Never with really high picks, Ainge hit some and missed some; in those days his genius lay in not falling in love with his picks and acquisitions so that he was able to winnow the wheat from the chaff. His churning of the roster made it impossible to build cohesion, but then again, there was not yet the talent to begin polishing a finished product. He took high-schooler's—why not, he had time; the Celtics were still a long way from a contender. He gave Doc the time to develop Perk and Al, staunchly defending his coach from the flames of impatient fans and reporters. He and Rivers gave their rookies and youngsters time to grow, not allowing their spirits to be crushed in the unflinching glare of the spotlight and unrealistic expectations. I still think that a key element to Rondo's career was the half season he didn't start, or sometimes even play much, the year before the Big Summer.

Certainly there was a large dose of luck in the Garnet/Allen turnaround. I, however, tend to think of it in terms of preparation meeting opportunity. Danny had taken the heat through the lean years to acquire and build the assets that made the coup of Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen possible. And he resisted all efforts of Minnesota to pry away Rajon Rondo as part of the deal. Adding Posey and House before the season and P. J. Brown and Sam Cassell during, gave his stars just enough backing to bring the first Championship in two decades. It also took a large measure of luck in that they avoided injuries to a very shallow lineup. It was beautiful basketball and a pleasure to watch.

The remainder of the window and its closing is where I disagree with Danny most often, and because I understand while disagreeing, find myself in most disagreement with Master Po. For five years I anguished with Ainge's drafts and free agent signings. I understood the need/desire to keep the window propped open, but I found the stop-gap measures to be ultimately counterproductive. I suspect the thin talent pool and crippling injuries left Danny feeling he had to rob any future to pay the present.

Most observers felt the Celtics had a three year window. In the two latter years (08-09, and 09-10) I felt that Danny failed to do a single worthwhile thing to prepare for the post-Big-Three era—ouch. Finally, in the fourth year of the three-year window, he drafted Avery Bradley (who would be injury plagued for three years) and traded Big Baby Davis for Brandon Bass. He also made the most controversial trade of his career in Boston (except for perhaps trading away Antione Walker), he moved Kendrick Perkins for Jeff Green. As big a fan of Perkins as anyone, I actually agreed with the move—Perk was still recovering from his Golden Triange knee injury suffered in the Finals, and Green added some serious athleticism to a squad woefully lacking in same; besides, Danny was desperate to keep that Window open.

I, as almost every soul with a blogosphere pen, have written about the Perkins/Green move at length—but I will rehash it a bit because I feel it has some bearing on the recent move of Rondo. Perkins was offered an extension, as was Rondo. Both chose to play out their contracts in hopes of a windfall payday. I think in both cases Ainge weighed their future value against their likely salary demands and chose to add assets rather than over pay. This is actually very much in keeping with his decision-tree record as a GM. He chose not to give James Posey and Tony Allen the added years. In Posey's case within two years his signing team was trying rather desperately to rid themselves of that contract. With Allen, Ainge finally relented and offered to match the years but it seems that Tony was already fed up with playing second fiddle to that other Allen, Ray. It is interesting to note in passing that two years ago Ray Allen bolted mostly due to his pique at coming off the bench behind Avery Bradley, same song, second verse—NBA players are a proud lot and these glimpses should leave us all in awe of coaches handling these tempermental uber-athletes.

Finally a few words about what Po describes Ainge as summarily shipping out every one of the Championship ingredients that Danny had assembled.
   Summarily—in a summary manner, without customary formalities
If by customary formalities, you mean with a number-raising retirement ceremony, o.k., sure. But I would argue that Ainge moved each of these primary pieces with great appreciation and sincere affection. Long after the Window expired, I would say even after it slammed shut, Danny began disassembling the fading core. In each case he moved the principal to a situation that was far more likely to let them pursue another championship than that which they were leaving behind. Doc to the Clippers who were emerging as the best LA team, leaving the Fakers in the dust. Pierce and Garnett to Brooklyn where the Russian billionaire had assembled the highest paid group of stars in history. They moved from a rebuilding team to a contender with multiple other All-Stars. And now in Rondo's case, he moves into a tailor-made fit with star players at three other positions, and shooters who are a custom fit with the best passing point guard in the league. Rather than a Don Quixote-esque flailing on a struggling team, Ainge has place each of them in a probably best-case situation to seek another Championship. Something of the ultimate compliment if you asked me.

One final nit to pick. Po says “I am convinced Danny has no recipe card or good notes to follow on how to make a good sustainable NBA team.” I, on the other hand, don't believe there is a single “recipe.” There are several, and several mix-and-match combinations of those. I think that Danny's one “lucky” Championship taught him that it is painful when you can't maintain success. I suspect that this rebuild will be predicated upon the idea that the asset pantry needs to be full enough to continue to nourish the team not just into, but beyond a Championship season. Back in the world of Po, I would say that Ainge is building the stock. It is still meatless, and lacks flavorful spices; but the pantry is far from empty and he has accrued shopping coupons of most every description, has plenty of fuel and a variety of stock pots, and his line cook is of the first order. Danny is ready to buy, or sell, or swap, or swoop in on almost any opportunity; and I would maintain that this readiness is all for which any reasonable fan could hope.


   




bob
MY NOTE:  Upon re-reading MISTER po's diatribe I noticed that he forgot to include James Posey, Eddie House and PJ Brown to his list of Danny's free agent signings.  Three VERY impactful rotation players in that Championship year thanks to Trader Danny's wheeling and dealings, and somehow they just happened to slip MISTER po's mind. Celtics fans are famous, understandably and justifiably, for being focused on Championships. What does it say about a Boston Celtics blogger that he would forget those three key cogs in banner #17? It says to me his focus is on his conclusion and proving that rather than focusing on the evidence and letting the conclusion announce itself.



.

There were many contributing factors for the loss of Rondo.  

The most glaring reason was the coach they hired.  Stevens who is heralded as the next up and coming basketball  brain was and still is a rank amateur as far as knowing the NBA and how ball is played.  It is a 3 - 4 year process and Rondo was not going to wait for someone to catchup to him concerning knowledge.

Second, no top all star free agent would look at the Celtics knowing the above statement/fact.

So the Celtics basically opened the door for Rondo to walk.

I believe also because of timing, the Celtics were unable to get sufficient room to operate where they had available cap space, assets in the form of players to entice free agents to come or to trade for a star player.

It was a perfect storm sort of ..........and so we have to do the waiting game.

The only way I see the Celtics starting to ramp up to have a great team is to use the $12M trade exemption and trade for a superstar from a team  who is looking to rebuild, shed salary and has a player who is under a longer term contract and not an expiring contract.  The player is then locked into the Celtics which then helps them to attract others in the free agent market to come play with us.

So you want to blame Danny or ownership (Wyc) I think the majority of blame can be hung on those 2 parties. For Rondo..........because of the Celtics long term road to success, Rondo wanted full blown max deal...no discounts please. Do I think he settles for less if we had a chance of fielding a top team soon.........absolutely. Should Danny and management agreed to a full blown max deal to keep Rondo here.......absolutely not!

The last paragraph and the options painted therein all started with the choice of a coach!

112288

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:"In Danny We Trust."

Quite the mantra, and in many respects is well-deserved. He did orchestrate a perfect storm that led to the 2008 title, several other deep playoff runs, and another title appearance against LA.

But as we all know, the NBA is a "what have you done for me lately" game. I was under the impression that, after the PP-KG and subsequent trades throughout last season and leading up to this season, that Danny had a pretty solid plan in place. But this recent trade has shaken a bit of my confidence. Not so much that the trade took place, but the fact that he allowed himself to be fleeced this time around.

How many more draft picks are needed? What are the odds of a higher-priced talent actually staying once their contract is up if Danny can somehow swing another trade? It takes a good bit of luck to keep one long enough to sign a few others to complete the puzzle. That is something I do not see happening any time soon, especially if the Celtics are indeed shopping Jeff Green.

Building a young core is a nice idea, but it's not practical if you want to win a championship. Titles are won overwhelmingly with veteran leadership.



KJ

KJ There have been 4 championship periods in the history of the Celtics.

The 12 years that Ainge has run the show would be 4 on the list in terms of success.  

To me he is an average GM at best.  I am not comparing him to other GM's just to Celtics GM's  

The Celtics were contenders for two years under Ainge.  After they traded Perkins they were no longer contenders.  They made playoff runs but the team was never as good.  

In 12 years how many players has Ainge drafted that became Allstars....?   A function of draft position?..At present I do not see one player on this team that will be considered an allstar except for maybe Jeff Green (and he will not make it either as long as lebron and Melo are playing)

I still say we must wait to see this thing through.  Whatever this thing is.  He is suppossed to be a savy GM but even with 9 first rounders before the 2014 draft he still could not add one high end piece.  That scares me because trading players for more picks may be a questionable strategy.

The last time we had a wow reaction was in 07-08.  

If the Celtics keep changing out 5 to 6 players every year they will never be a consistent winner.  DA is a tinkerer.  To me he is like a kid with a toy who keeps f---ing with it until the damn thing breaks.

dboss

Dboss,

To me, comparing Danny to other CELTIC GMs is like comparing the Russell Era players to the current Era players.  Danny is competing with a different CBA,  he has to deal with free-agency (e.g. what to do with Rondo when Rondo and his agent are playing cat-and-mouse?) and he has to compete with 29 other GMS who want the same high-impact players.  When there were only 8 teams in the league the talent was concentrated as there were but a fraction of open roster slots available and Darwinian selection was fierce.  As the league expanded and rosters bloated out to 15 players, that eased and talent became more diluted.  The opposite is true when it comes to management.   Red only had to compete against 7 or 8 GMs.   Witness the Kevin Love Sweepstakes.  Look at all the teams that were making offers.  Off the top of my head I remember Boston, GSW, Denver, Dallas, Cleveland.  That, and Minny itself, would be 3/4 the league in Red's day but today Danny had to deal with Philly throwing in Thaddeus Young to make a multi-team deal sweeter than what Danny could put together.  

And speaking of Red, is it really fair to compare Danny to him?  That's like comparing a really, really good painter to Da Vinci or Picasso or Renoir.  Ok, so if Red freaking Auerbach is numero uno, who else is better?  Jan Volk?  What makes Jan Volk so much better than Danny?  After Red drafted Bird and Red pulled off the McHale/Parish heist, what did Jan Volk do that was so memorable?  Pitino?  Danny's moving up in the standings now, isn't he?



bob



.

bob

Red had to deal with free agrency as well.

I always try to compare people to the best. So if he is a great GM fine//compared to what other great GM that ran the Celtics?

The notion that I would believe in the mantra "trust in danny" is crazy. he is not Bill Belichick.

The single biggest issue I have with danny is that he changes out too many players every year. The team can never develop any chemistry because of that.

The article was off the chain but it certainly illustrates a revolving door policy with marginal accomplishments.

I have NEVER been a big fan of DA and I see no good reason to become one now.

When he makes something happen that turns this team into a contender then he will get his props from me.

Results is the only measurement that matters to me.

dboss

Bob,

I think placing the above article here was the right place; after all it's a counter-argument to the original.

I suppose the Master Po (what a handle to go by) post is fine as an opinion piece.  Whatever; everyone is entitled to their view.  I think Po misses the point, however, that even if there is an established master plan, variables as far reaching as unexpected injury or player demands can force one to modify the recipe.  I think Master Po has failed to take into account all the facts surrounding him.  What took me by surprise was my agreement with a Lee Lauderdale post.  I guess if I can 'snatch the pebble'* from Po's hand, I'll give it to Lauderdale.

Regards

*For our younger viewers, see the opening to the old TV show called Kung Fu.  Thursday nights; I never missed it, grasshoppers.

Master Po: [after easily defeating the boy in combat] Ha, ha, never assume because a man has no eyes he cannot see. Close your eyes. What do you hear?

Young Caine: I hear the water, I hear the birds.

Master Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat?

Young Caine: No.

Master Po: Do you hear the grasshopper that is at your feet?

Young Caine: [looking down and seeing the insect] Old man, how is it that you hear these things?

Master Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

NYCelt,

The poser who goes by the handle, "Master Po" should try to walk down the aisle covered with rice paper.  I'll bet he cannot get to the other end successfully without shredding the paper, given his poor focus on reality.

gyso

PS:  Kung Fu, IMO one of the best "Westerns" ever shown on TV.

PPS: The real Master Po was blind in eyesight only.

gyso,

I would agree on all points.

Regards