Three-Team NBA Deal Set to Send J.R. Smith to Cleveland, Dion Waiters to OKC

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/2015/01/05/three-team-nba-deal-set-send-smith-cleveland-dion-waiters-oklahoma-city/ic73cm86NJCWdClVtfN6yK/story.html



Three-Team NBA Deal Set to Send J.R. Smith to Cleveland, Dion Waiters to OKC


(AP Photo/Jonathan Bachman)
(AP Photo/Jonathan Bachman)
By Jeremy Gottlieb
Boston.com Staff | 01.05.15 | 9:33 PM



The first trade of the new year in the NBA went down on Monday night according to Yahoo! Sports’ Adrian Wojnarowksi. The New York Knicks reached an agreement to send guard J.R. Smith and swingman Iman Shumpert to the Cleveland Cavaliers while the Cavs will ship 2-guard Dion Waiters to the Oklahoma City Thunder. As part of the three-team deal, the Thunder are set to send roster filler in the form of Lance Thomas while the Cavs kicked in rookie center Alex Kirk, journeyman forward Lou Amundson and a 2019 second-round pick to the Knicks.

Steve Popper of the Bergen Record reports that the Knicks will waive all three of the players they received and Wojnarowski also reports that veteran center Samuel Dalembert will be waived by New York.

By moving Waiters and bringing in Smith, the Cavs are shifting from one volatile personality to another. The biggest difference is that Smith has thrived as an offensive weapon off the bench for a playoff team in his career while Waiters, who has reportedly feuded with Cleveland’s star point guard Kyrie Irving in the past, most certainly has not.



bob




.

Almost seems to me that there are many more things wrong in Cleveland than may have surfaced already.

Smith is a huge gamble for any team from what he has shown in NY.

From NYs side, they build some salary cap space for next summer, but did not seem to get any valuable players back.

The Thunder get a decent player who may help them this year.

I hope that the Celtics do not make any trades like this. Nothing lost but nothing gained.

wide clyde wrote:Almost seems to me that there are many more things wrong in Cleveland than may have surfaced already.

Smith is a huge gamble for any team from what he has shown in NY.

From NYs side, they build some salary cap space for next summer, but did not seem to get any valuable players back.

The Thunder get a decent player who may help them this year.

I hope that the Celtics do not make any trades like this.   Nothing lost but nothing gained.

Clyde,

Would you like Danny to pick Dalembert off of waivers? He'd be a rental, of course, but he is a rim/paint defender. It would let players like Kelly move completely to 4 and would give the rest of the roster a chance to play with a more normal defensive profile.

Whaddya think? Is he worth a cheap flyer?


bob


.

Cleveland isn't quite the paradise many assumed it would be. James and Love could potentially opt out should things bust. That would really make that Wiggins trade look brilliant.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:Cleveland isn't quite the paradise many assumed it would be. James and Love could potentially opt out should things bust. That would really make that Wiggins trade look brilliant.


KJ

KJ,

I don't see LeBron leaving Cleveland. Technically he could, but that was done to give him a bite at the bigger salary cap. He went back to Cleveland to repair his reputation, I don't see him leaving twice.

Love, on the other hand...


bob


.

Strange deal all around.

Cleveland ships out a head case and gets back in return, a BIGGER headcase?
OKC risks upsetting the apple cart with a headstrong player who thinks he is a lot better than he is.
NYK - oh, man...poor Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher. Couldnt be happening to two nicer guys.

Mrkleen, strange indeed. On the face of things, Oklahoma City seems to have come closest to getting something for nothing.

BobH, the possibility of picking up Dalembert would be interesting if it looked like he would be a legitimate part of the rebuilt. He has performed pretty well recently against the Celtics. But the Celts would have to waive a player to sign him, and I think you're spot on about his being a short-term rental.

Sam

mrkleen09 wrote:Strange deal all around.

Cleveland ships out a head case and gets back in return, a BIGGER headcase?
OKC risks upsetting the apple cart with a headstrong player who thinks he is a lot better than he is.
NYK - oh, man...poor Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher.  Couldnt be happening to two nicer guys.  

Mrkleen,

Bingo, from top to bottom.


Bob


.

From what I understand:

Cleveland -- swaps gunning knuckleheads (a push) but gets perimeter defender Shumpert, which is something they sorely lack.

OKC -- adds bench scoring, which they feel they need to compete with Golden State. If Waiters works out, he can be a replacement for Reggie Jackson, who is likely to leave after the season.

NY -- rids themselves of J.R. Smith (addition by subtraction, like Detroit did with Josh Smith), frees up additional cap space for the summer. This is a lost season anyway.

Overall, the trade isn't a big deal from a basketball standpoint. It's tinkering at the edges for each of the teams involved.

For OKC, it's an admission that they don't think the status quo will get them a title and will likely be followed by other moves.

For Cleveland, it's an admission that the status quo isn't working and they're in danger of losing LeBron and/or Love this summer if they don't do something to salvage the season.

Outside wrote:From what I understand:

Cleveland -- swaps gunning knuckleheads (a push) but gets perimeter defender Shumpert, which is something they sorely lack.

OKC -- adds bench scoring, which they feel they need to compete with Golden State. If Waiters works out, he can be a replacement for Reggie Jackson, who is likely to leave after the season.

NY -- rids themselves of J.R. Smith (addition by subtraction, like Detroit did with Josh Smith), frees up additional cap space for the summer. This is a lost season anyway.

Overall, the trade isn't a big deal from a basketball standpoint. It's tinkering at the edges for each of the teams involved.

For OKC, it's an admission that they don't think the status quo will get them a title and will likely be followed by other moves.

For Cleveland, it's an admission that the status quo isn't working and they're in danger of losing LeBron and/or Love this summer if they don't do something to salvage the season.

Outside,


So you're saying these trades by two teams that are solidly playoff teams are evidence of weakness and not of building on strength?

Phil has been trying to move Shumpert and Smith since last summer.


bob



.

bobheckler wrote:Outside,


So you're saying these trades by two teams that are solidly playoff teams are evidence of weakness and not of building on strength?

Phil has been trying to move Shumpert and Smith since last summer.

Yep.

Cleveland is a near disaster compared to the expectations within the franchise (also the expectations of media and fans, but those are irrelevant other than adding noise to a negative situation). Their offense is pretty good (6th in terms of points per 100 possessions), but the defense is 22nd. I'm sure they hoped that LeBron, Love, and Irving would lead them to the top of a weak East, but the top of the East (Toronto, Atlanta, Chicago, and Washington) is actually pretty good, and Cleveland can't compete with them. Just being in the playoffs isn't good enough. The way the East stacks up, Cleveland wouldn't even have home court advantage in the first round.

LeBron has the option to leave after this season, as does Love. It seems unthinkable that LeBron would leave Cleveland a second time, but when there's stuff like what he said to Dwyane Wade Christmas Day out there, leaving Cleveland sounds like a possibility.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/31/lebron-james-says-christmas-day-comments-to-dwyane-wade-not-about-basketball/

The sound clip:



What everyone (including LeBron) agrees that he said:

"Like I said, if we aren’t better this year, we’re gonna reunite again and do some bigger and better things, all right? You already know."

There's some serious pressure on the franchise to do something. The defense is where help is needed, because Love isn't good at it, neither is Irving, LeBron has declined as a defender, and they don't have a rim protector. Adding Shumpert isn't going to magically fix the defense, but it's a step in the right direction. Like I said, I expect more moves. The further the season progresses without significant improvement, the more desperate Cavs management will get. The trading deadline is six weeks away.

As for OKC, I think Golden State and Memphis have them spooked. Their window with Durant and Westbrook won't stay open forever. They're somewhat the opposite of Cleveland with a good defense (ninth) but an underwhelming offense (22nd). Obviously the injuries to Durant and Westbrook had an impact on that, but they're in this to compete for a title, not just be happy with making the playoffs. To get there, they need more offensive firepower. The only reason to do the trade is because they think Waiters can help them with that. What they really need is post scoring, so Waiters, like Shumpert, isn't the total solution. Ibaka scores 14.4 per game, but mostly on jump shots (even three-pointers -- he shoots 3.6 per game), not on post moves. I expect them to explore additional moves to address that need. I've heard a Brook Lopez-Perkins rumor, which would help OKC tremendously (assuming Lopez doesn't break down again), but OKC would need to send more than Perkins. It's not that I think it's a trade about to happen; it's more that it shows what OKC needs to do to truly compete for a title.

Outside wrote:From what I understand:

Cleveland -- swaps gunning knuckleheads (a push) but gets perimeter defender Shumpert, which is something they sorely lack.

OKC -- adds bench scoring, which they feel they need to compete with Golden State. If Waiters works out, he can be a replacement for Reggie Jackson, who is likely to leave after the season.

NY -- rids themselves of J.R. Smith (addition by subtraction, like Detroit did with Josh Smith), frees up additional cap space for the summer. This is a lost season anyway.

Overall, the trade isn't a big deal from a basketball standpoint. It's tinkering at the edges for each of the teams involved.

For OKC, it's an admission that they don't think the status quo will get them a title and will likely be followed by other moves.

For Cleveland, it's an admission that the status quo isn't working and they're in danger of losing LeBron and/or Love this summer if they don't do something to salvage the season.

I completely agree with your analysis Outside.
Waiters can help OKC but he needs his shots, just as Westbrook, Durant and Jackson do. Many say he's not worth giving up a protected 1st round pick.
Cleveland got additional scoring and defense. Smith and Shumpert are head cases but they have talent.
NY saved over $30m this season in salary and luxury tax. They are opening up much more money for next season. They also increased their chances to get the #1 overall pick. I think NY will finish with the worst record in the NBA.

This is not a trade that dramatically moves the needle, but it was a good trade for all 3 teams for what they are looking to accomplish.

I'm still scratching my head about how this trade happened...not why but HOW.

I did read that Cleveland used the injured player exception (Varejao) should be worth about $4.8M.

Smiths salary is $6.5M
Shumpert- $2.6M (he;s the guy they really wanted supposedly).

Waiters- $4.06M salary and I have NO IDEA how OKC added his salary to their roster, as they sent out only Thomas and his less than $1M salary. they were already over $75M in salary this year. I suppose they had some type of trade exception to use to make it happen.

on another note:

Cleveland still has that $5.2M trade exception to bring in a big man. Wright would fit right in there, if they are interested in him.


as for Dalembert coming here?

Ainge could have signed him back when KG and Pierce were here, but never did. It wouldn't make much sense to sign him now, that he is even older. He also is likely to sign with a contending team as a BU big, IMO.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/06/the-fear-that-forced-jackson-to-deal-smith-shumpert-for-nothing/

Most would’ve expected a future first-round pick as part of the Knicks’ haul for dumping on the season and dumping J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert to Cleveland. Not the case. A 2019 second-rounder, a former Jersey high-school phenom and a couple of trade exceptions were all they netted. The trade exceptions are the only things with intrigue.

But Jackson and his staff feared the trade values of Smith, who is dealing with a small tear in his plantar fascia, and Shumpert would worsen, realizing the Knicks were in a potential irreversible slide. He feared the Cavaliers, if they got hot, could lose interest.
____________

My note:  They used trade exceptions to match salaries.  The three team deal makes that easier, apparently.  They are both hurt and may not contribute in the near future.

NY has now officially joined the Eastern Tank Squadron.

gyso

Just looking at the players exchanged I would say Cleveland got the best deal.

Signing Dalembert would be mostly pointless no? He would only be taking playing time from developing players and most likely not be a part of the future anyway. Maybe a few more wins but to what good? Also have to get rid of some players then.

bob,

I would not think that Dalembert would be a good signing at this time even before I read the thoughts of the fellow posters that wrote on adding him before I saw your question.

The thoughts of cutting a player to get an older player in what is a rebuilding season that is probably not going quite as well as what we all had hoped for before the season just does not make sense at this time.

If Ainge makes a trade for players that does not include a center and there was to be an open up a roster spot I would probably consider Dalembert (if available).

bobheckler wrote:

Outside wrote:From what I understand:

Cleveland -- swaps gunning knuckleheads (a push) but gets perimeter defender Shumpert, which is something they sorely lack.

OKC -- adds bench scoring, which they feel they need to compete with Golden State. If Waiters works out, he can be a replacement for Reggie Jackson, who is likely to leave after the season.

NY -- rids themselves of J.R. Smith (addition by subtraction, like Detroit did with Josh Smith), frees up additional cap space for the summer. This is a lost season anyway.

Overall, the trade isn't a big deal from a basketball standpoint. It's tinkering at the edges for each of the teams involved.

For OKC, it's an admission that they don't think the status quo will get them a title and will likely be followed by other moves.

For Cleveland, it's an admission that the status quo isn't working and they're in danger of losing LeBron and/or Love this summer if they don't do something to salvage the season.

Outside,


So you're saying these trades by two teams that are solidly playoff teams are evidence of weakness and not of building on strength?

Phil has been trying to move Shumpert and Smith since last summer.


bob



.

Bobh

OKC is currently under .500 and if the playoffs started today they would not be in it.  I do not think they are as good as they were last year (due to injuries)  Their scoring is done almost 7 PPG.  I would not say that they were a lock for the playoffs.  They are hoping that Waiters can provide some scoring off the bench.

For the NYK this was a salary dump and an admission that if you cannot play in the triangle offense you cannot play for the Knicks.  They get a first rounder form OKC 5 years down the road (Danny loves this trade)

Cleveland had to rid themselves of Waiters because Waiters is not a willing passer.  Adding JR is like adding Waiters all over again but getting Shump provides them with a defensive guard that is a better defender than any of their current guards.  JR has a player option for next year so the thorn will be stuck in the side of the Cavs for a while.  The Cavs can make Shump a qualifying offer next year.   The Cavs will not be good because Kevin Love's defense sucks and Love's best contribution on offense cannot be fully realized with Irving and his shoot first mentality.

In the end the only team that really got what they needed is the NYK.  They got rid of JR Smith, the tatoo wonder.  Cleveland continues to search for an identity and OKC has no place to go but down.  The are suffering from a slow death due to the Hardin move (Perk sucked up too much money and is a free agent at the end of the season)

dboss

So, dboss, what's your opinion on the availability of Dalembert as far as the Celtics are concerned?

Sam

Sam

I think Dalembert would be a good pickup for a team that is looking for a backup center.

That team could be a dallas team for example that is already built for a playoff run and just need to tweak their roster a bit.

I see no good reason or value in adding him to this roster.

dboss

Dboss,

Agreed.

Sam