Could Kentucky Compete In The NBA?

Outside those Jabbar and Walton lead teams had enough good complimentary players and the centerpieces are HoF standards, who was the best player on any of the 3 worst NBA teams of that time frame? A case could be made that those teams are much better equipped to compete against the dregs of the NBA than this years Kentucky team.

As great as Walton's UCLA teams were in Walton's senior year they lost to Notre Dame (who broke the Bruins 88 game winning streak), Oregon and Oregon State during the regular season and then lost to NC State in the NCAA's.

Maybe the question should be could Notre Dame, Oregon, Oregon State and NC State have competed with NBA teams?

I agree with Outside that the level of play of the college game has fallen a lot since almost no good player stays more than a year. The NBA has also become more of a veteran's league since few rookies--the majority of whom are a year removed from high school--make an immediate impact.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Outside those Jabbar and Walton lead teams had enough good complimentary players and the centerpieces are HoF standards, who was the best player on any of the 3 worst NBA teams of that time frame? A case could be made that those teams are much better equipped to compete against the dregs of the NBA than this years Kentucky team.

Cow,

LOL, if only someone could make the case for those UCLA teams.

It appears we're drawing distinctions on the definition of "competitive." The article in the original post on this thread discusses Larry Brown's comment that Kentucky would "make the playoffs in the Eastern Conference," which is one working standard for "competitive." Another, lower standard is whether Kentucky could possibly beat the worst teams in the NBA, such as the Knicks.

Even the UCLA teams couldn't make the playoffs in a weak NBA conference, and as the author of the article pointed out, it's absurd to say that this Kentucky team could. Win a couple of games over the course of a season after they had the benefit of playing against NBA competition, okay, but right now, not a chance, not even against the lowly Knicks.

The Knicks may be lousy, but they're men. Okay, except maybe Bargnani. Kentucky's roster is mostly boys. And even Bargnani would have a field day against boys.

It's also problematic to look at college players and assign them the abilities they achieve at the peak of their professional careers. Anthony Davis is the best player to come out of college in recent years, yet even he had the stats of a mere mortal in his first NBA season -- 13.5 points, 8.2 rebounds, and 1.8 blocks. That's a nice number for blocks, and the points and rebounds are pretty good but put him near the bottom of a list of 19 that includes guys like David Lee, Carlos Boozer, and Nicola Pekovic. He's a 24.6 point, 10.4 rebound, 2.9 block monster this season -- and leads a list of only three players in the 20-point, 10-rebound club -- but that's not who he was straight out of Kentucky.

Outside wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Outside those Jabbar and Walton lead teams had enough good complimentary players and the centerpieces are HoF standards, who was the best player on any of the 3 worst NBA teams of that time frame? A case could be made that those teams are much better equipped to compete against the dregs of the NBA than this years Kentucky team.

Cow,

LOL, if only someone could make the case for those UCLA teams.

It appears we're drawing distinctions on the definition of "competitive." The article in the original post on this thread discusses Larry Brown's comment that Kentucky would "make the playoffs in the Eastern Conference," which is one working standard for "competitive." Another, lower standard is whether Kentucky could possibly beat the worst teams in the NBA, such as the Knicks.

Even the UCLA teams couldn't make the playoffs in a weak NBA conference, and as the author of the article pointed out, it's absurd to say that this Kentucky team could. Win a couple of games over the course of a season after they had the benefit of playing against NBA competition, okay, but right now, not a chance, not even against the lowly Knicks.

The Knicks may be lousy, but they're men. Okay, except maybe Bargnani. Kentucky's roster is mostly boys. And even Bargnani would have a field day against boys.

It's also problematic to look at college players and assign them the abilities they achieve at the peak of their professional careers. Anthony Davis is the best player to come out of college in recent years, yet even he had the stats of a mere mortal in his first NBA season -- 13.5 points, 8.2 rebounds, and 1.8 blocks. That's a nice number for blocks, and the points and rebounds are pretty good but put him near the bottom of a list of 19 that includes guys like David Lee, Carlos Boozer, and Nicola Pekovic. He's a 24.6 point, 10.4 rebound, 2.9 block monster this season -- and leads a list of only three players in the 20-point, 10-rebound club -- but that's not who he was straight out of Kentucky.

outside,

Post excerpt of the day.


The Knicks may be lousy, but they're men. Okay, except maybe Bargnani.

In every joke there has to be enough truth, enough reality to have it make sense.  This has so much reality in it I looked like a fool in the Starbucks laughing.

Want to hear another good one? Barf-nani was the #1 pick in 2006. How bad did Toronto have to be to get him? They only won 27 games in 2005-2006 but, oooooh, look at all the pingpong balls they had...



bob



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Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach about 1 hour ago
Brad Stevens to @Marc_Bertrand on whether any college team could ever beat any NBA team: "No. No. ... It's a totally different game. No."

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bob


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really? probably true, but on paper they look alot stronger than the Knicks.

in 1973 the worst team in the NBA record wise was Philadelphia (25-57).

their top players were:
Fred Carter
Tom Van Arsdale
Steve Mix
Leroy Ellis
Larry Jones
Freddie Boyd
Toby Kimball
Don May

they also had drafted Doug Collins #1 but he didn't play much (Injured?).

Waltons' UCLA might have given them a run I guess.

on the other hand over in the ABA you had the forgettable Memphis Tams, with:

Will Jones
George Thompson
Randy Denton
Charlie Edge
Lee Davis
Glenn Combs
Johnny Neumann
Larry Finch

Wil Jones and Thompson were quality players, but the rest not so much.

UCLA would probably beat them, especially in a five game series.

Last night, during the Knicks game, play-by-play guy Mike Breen said that if Kentucky played any NBA team 20x, including the Knicks (whom he admitted was the worst team in basketball) they would lose 20x.

Walt Frazier said "well, maybe they could do something with one of those games, maybe they could win one of them".

That's from 2x champion, HOFer and top 50 player all-time Walt Frazier. He's giving them one.


bob


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Clyde said that they "could win one."  

I've always liked Frazier as an analyst.  Yes, he's got his deliberately contrived affectations with the "dishin' and swishin" and "dazin and amazin" but sometimes he can come up with a real gem.

One game in the 90's John Starks goes flying through the air and makes an incredible shot while falling on his head.  

The play-by-play guy asked, "Hey, Clyde did you make shots like that when you played?"

Frazier answered, "No, I was never so out of control."

Last night was Clyde's 70th birthday.  He got serenaded by the Four Tops--or the guys who bought the name of the Four Tops--and Earl the Pearl, Dick Barnett and Phil Jackson were on hand, the last a captive guest.

Have to say that Clyde looked real good for 70 or even if he were in his 40's or 50's.  He's obviously a man who takes pride in his appearance and in staying in shape.

I used to see Clyde a few times a year in the 80's at Amsterdams on the UWS.

He was easy to talk to, not an air of entitlement cause of his fame, guy was the coolest guy in any place wherever he went....and still is.

In Clyde's book, "Rockin' Steady: A Guide to Basketball and Cool" he gave an example of what he saw as cool.

Frazier ran a basketball camp in the Catskills for several summers and one day he was driving into town when he saw two kids hitchiking. He knew they were from his camp. Indeed one of them was carrying a basketball.

He pulled over and they get into his Rolls Royce with the "CLYDE" license plate. Neither of them says a word. Real cool cats.

They get into town and one of the boys says, "This is where we get off. Thanks, man."

As Clyde was driving away he sees the kids in his rearview jumping up and down high fiving each other.

Forget the numbers put up by Kentucky. When comparing numbers its always good to ask the question - Against what level of competition ?

swish

Sloopjohnb wrote:Clyde said that they "could win one."  

I've always liked Frazier as an analyst.  Yes, he's got his deliberately contrived affectations with the "dishin' and swishin" and "dazin and amazin" but sometimes he can come up with a real gem.

One game in the 90's John Starks goes flying through the air and makes an incredible shot while falling on his head.  

The play-by-play guy asked, "Hey, Clyde did you make shots like that when you played?"

Frazier answered, "No, I was never so out of control."

Last night was Clyde's 70th birthday.  He got serenaded by the Four Tops--or the guys who bought the name of the Four Tops--and Earl the Pearl, Dick Barnett and Phil Jackson were on hand, the last a captive guest.

Have to say that Clyde looked real good for 70 or even if he were in his 40's or 50's.  He's obviously a man who takes pride in his appearance and in staying in shape.

and on the floor he was great in the clutch, hated when he had the ball against us in the last 2 minutes of the 4th.

swish wrote:Forget the numbers put up by Kentucky. When comparing numbers its always good to ask the question - Against what level of competition ?  

swish

right now they're 37-0, hows those numbers?

cowens/oldschool wrote:

swish wrote:Forget the numbers put up by Kentucky. When comparing numbers its always good to ask the question - Against what level of competition ?  

swish

right now they're 37-0, hows those numbers?

Against boys.  Swish said "forget the numbers put up by Kentucky", you answered by giving numbers.  How about the quality of the competition they put those numbers up against?  They put those numbers up against boys.  West Virginia?  How many players on West Virginia will even be invited to an NBA summer league, much less make an NBA roster, much less get off the bench in anything except a blow out?

How many high school teams could compete against a Division I college team?  The best high school team in the country would be lucky to win more than one game out of 20 against just about any Division I team.  

It's apples and oranges.  Kentucky is the best team against inferior competition.  Put them against a veteran men's team in the NBA and they get crushed.  Why?  Because then it would be men playing against boys but this time Kentucky would be the boys.  Even Calipari says they'd get killed.  Being the best team in summer league says nothing when it comes to predicting how well they'd do against real NBAers.  Look at James Young.  He was one of the stars of an NCAA championship team.  He can't even stay in Boston, much less get playing time, and that's because his weaknesses are being revealed and exploited.  You have two future NBA players on Kentucky, maybe 3.  Of those 3, only 2 will be solid rotation players, maybe starters.  Every single player in the NBA is an NBA player.  Every single NBA roster has at least 5 NBA starters and at least 3 solid rotation players.  



bob



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bob

Thanks for spelling out in detail my very brief comment on the level of competition being the key to a sound comparison. I have very limited typing skills and as a result tend to over simplify my comments.

swish

bob take a close look at the Knicks roster, then take a look at our rim protection, we have none.

Can we admit Kentucky has MUCH better interior defense than us and probably a third of the NBA?

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob take a close look at the Knicks roster, then take a look at our rim protection, we have none.

Can we admit Kentucky has MUCH better interior defense than us and probably a third of the NBA?

cow,

And when Zeller pulls them out by hitting 17'ers, then what about their interior defense?

When Towns can't leave Kelly or Jerebko out at the 3pt line alone, what happens when 6'7" Evan Turner posts his SG defender up?  Cauley Stein comes over and Bass (or Zeller or Jerebko) gets a layup on Turner's pass or a dunk on the offensive rebound and putback.  You wanna talk about college players and the fantasy league joy of high draft picks?  Evan Turner was NCAA POY and the #2 pick in the draft.  Which guard/SF on Kentucky will stop him from doing whatever he wants?  And when help defense comes he'll slice them up.  That's what he does a lot of the times against GOOD NBA teams, you don't think he could do that against smaller, slower, less experienced college kids?

Towns, or Cauley-Stein, comes out to prevent Bass from taking his elbow jumper and he'll go right past them.  NBA players can't stop Bass from dunking once he's at the rim, you think Kentucky can?  Without fouling out?

College plays zones, so Towns and Cauley-Stein can sit back there and let it come to them.  Do that in the NBA and they'll rain 3s on you.  From distance, not that piddling college 3.  And what happens to the Kentucky offense when they have to shoot in 24 seconds and not 35?

On the other hand, if you want the Celtics to play against Kentucky using college rules, fine.  Bass can now shoot and hit 3s from the corner and maybe a little bit further out.  He can shoot college 3s already, because they are just beyond the top of the key.  Bradley's almost automatic pull up stop-and-pop from the top of the key?  Practically a college 3.  Thomas would kill them.  Kill them.  Hell, Gigi is a 12 year pro.  You want to put 19 year olds 1-2 years out of high school up against him?  He's a 6'8" small forward and he's, what, our 10th man?  11th?  12th?

The biggest guy on West Virginia is 6'10", 245# Kevin Noreen.  That's a PF in the NBA.  PFs in the NBA are expected to be able to shoot from range.  Can he?

Towns is over 6'11" and Cauley-Stein is 7'0".  We have two 7'ers AND Jerebko who is 6'10" AND Bass who is 6'8" 250# with a 7'2" wingspan and unlike Kentucky all of our bigs are used to playing big minutes against guys who are Towns and Cauley-Steins size every night for 82 games.  Out of the 35 games or so Kentucky is going to play this year, how many games were against players as big as them?  Boys, cow, they're putting up numbers (9.7ppg for Towns and 9.2ppg for C-S.  NOT big numbers) in 20-25 mpg (that's NBA bench minutes) and in half the games our guys play and they're doing those <10ppg against boys.


But here's the key point, cow.  You're focusing on bigs and on interior defense but basketball is a 5-man unit game.  Evan Turner will take his kid off the dribble, which he does on a nightly basis against GOOD NBAers, and will break down your Kentucky interior defense like it was a house of cards.  Towns and Cauley-Stein will foul out because Turner will drive and dish and when they try to recover Bass or Jerebko will score +1.  Thomas is eating NBAers alive.  Don't you think he could penetrate against Kentucky (especially after he hits a couple of easy college 3s and they have to come out to him) and, when he does, he wouldn't create the same switching nightmare for Towns and Cauley-Stein?  Interior defense, at every level, depends heavily upon the efficacy of the perimeter defense and their perimeter defense will look like swiss cheese against any of our guards.  Which player on Kentucky could even keep Phil Pressey out of the paint?  

Let me put this another way.  OKC is down Durant and Ibaka.  You can't take a bigger front court loss than that.  Their bigs are Enes Kanter, who is very defensively challenged, and Steven Adams who isn't much better.  Do you think Kentucky could beat OKC?  I sure don't.  Even if their bigs could outplay Kanter and Adams, which is still a question mark, they'd still lose.  Why?  Because Russell Westbrook would tear them a new one.  We don't have Westbrook, but we have Thomas who is a prolific scorer.  Bigs are only one part of the team and if the rest of your team can't compete your bigs are going to have a very,very long night.  Or maybe a very short one as they get a couple of quick fouls from having to bail out their teammates on a penetration.



bob


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All I have to say about this popular thread is that it's great filler for a chat room.

Sam

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/03/brad_stevens_kentucky_wildcats.html



Could Kentucky beat an NBA team? Boston Celtics coach Brad Stevens doesn't think so



Print Email Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com
on March 27, 2015 at 7:10 PM, updated March 27, 2015 at 7:36 PM




The Kentucky Wildcats extended their undefeated season Thursday night, teaching trash-talking West Virginia a valuable lesson: do not provoke the giant that has spent an entire season mutilating opposing college basketball teams.

Now at 37-0, Kentucky's sheer dominance has sparked some chatter: could the Wildcats beat an NBA team? One NAIA coach who got ransacked by Kentucky believed they could beat certain squads, at least. Larry Brown wildly stated they would make the playoffs in the Eastern Conference. John Calipari has tried to shoot down the conversation, but Kentucky is the most complete college squad in years, an enormous, athletic, defensive-minded group that has rarely gotten tested.

With that in mind, 98.5 The Sports Hub's Zolak & Bertrand asked Boston Celtics head coach Brad Stevens about the topic. Their talk went like this:

98.5: How much would your team win by if you played Kentucky, and how would you defend 6-foot-9 point guards running around out there?
Stevens: This Celtics team? Oh, I'm not getting into all that.

98.5: Could a top college team, and obviously a dominant one like Kentucky, ever compete and win a game against an NBA team?

Stevens: No. No. No. But I think, obviously, there are a lot of great college teams and many kids on many different teams will grow up to be great NBA players. But no.

98.5: It's just the physicality, right? I mean, their bodies?

Stevens: It's a totally different game.

Stevens, of course, spent six seasons as Butler head coach before taking over in Boston.



bob
MY NOTE: Calipari says no. Stevens says no. At what point should we take 'no' for an answer?


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At what point should we begin caring?

Sam

bob

Evan Turner is on his 3rd team in 2 years, he shows up once every 4 games and has a knack for throwing the ball away or drives and ends up in the air and then throws some junk at the rim. Kentucky has a 6'10" forward that will be a 4 in the pros playing SF, he'll post up Evan the bust. If your gonna beat Kentucky because of Evan Turner, I like that matchup. Zeller is not Bob McAdoo, outside he can be handled by Cauley-Stein, who can also help out weakside defense and perimeter. If Zeller can't handle alot of minutes now, how will he feel getting posted on by Towns, Cauley-Stein and Dakari Johnson, plus have to help out because of KO deficiencies and Bass's size? In the backcourt Kentucky has a might mite in Tyler Uliis that can stay in front of IT and stay on his shooting hand and funnel him into the big guys. Hope our 3 point shooting is on, cause if its off and with the inside eventually shutdown, we would give the kids some problems too, we would be very vulnerable.


cow

The question at the moment is can Kentucky compete with Notre Dame. A huge upset in the making as David is beating Goliath in the second half.

Notre Dame up by 6 with 6 minutes left.

Do you believe in miracles?