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Do Low-Post Scoring Centers Make Sense In The NBA?
by bobheckler Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:43 pm
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2015/04/06/big-men-center-position-rudy-gobert-marc-gasol-andrew-bogut/70760658/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=NBA%20National%20Newsletter&utm_campaign=GMIB%204%2F13%2F2015
Do low-post scoring centers make sense in the NBA?
Adi Joseph, USA TODAY Sports 6:23 p.m. EDT April 6, 2015
(Photo: Brad Rempel-USA TODAY Sports)
Rudy Gobert flexed. The 7-foot-1 Utah Jazz center lorded over his fallen opponent, rookie of the year favorite Andrew Wiggins, giving him a quick taunt for good measure. The message was clear: The paint is Gobert's territory. Stay out.
Wiggins, the Minnesota Timberwolves small forward, had dunked over Gobert on the previous possession during Monday's 20-point Jazz victory. But his attempt at a repeat left him on the ground, his dunk blocked viciously by the best young rim protector in the NBA.
Gobert serves as a poster child for a movement in redefining the center position. Nearly gone are post-up centers of the past, the 20-point, 10-rebound superstars that defined basketball in the past. Today's centers focus on help defense and screen-setting, often playing at the top of the key to set up a well-spaced offense featuring two to four adept shooters on the perimeter.
The model comes as a result of rule changes, offensive innovations and a dearth of top-flight post-playing centers. But the impact is obvious, sweeping the NBA playoff picture and potentially playing a deciding role in the No. 1 pick debate for this year's NBA draft, between high-scoring Jahlil Okafor of Duke and versatile Karl-Anthony Towns of Kentucky.
As USA TODAY Sports discussed the modern center position with some of the NBA's best, a theme emerged: Defense comes first, second and third.
"There's a lot of factors, but first of all is the mindset," Gobert said. "Some guys don't worry about defense. They just want to score. But I think if you want to win, you know, you've got to worry about defense."
Former No. 1 pick Andrew Bogut is playing an important role for the Warriors. (Photo: Anthony Gruppuso, USA TODAY Sports)
CHANGING WITH THE GAME
Andrew Bogut was drafted first overall in 2005 by the Milwaukee Bucks because of his ball skills. He was compared to Vlade Divac, a big man to build an offense around because of his remarkable passing skills shown in college at Utah.
Now in his 10th season, Bogut averages 6.2 points and 2.7 assists in 23.8 minutes a game, all down from his career averages. Yet he may be playing the best basketball of his life, the defensive linchpin for the NBA's best team, the Golden State Warriors.
"You're trying to go out there and get 20-and-10, and you're putting too much pressure on yourself," Bogut said. "But you come to soon realize that numbers are great, but letters are better. If you're getting wins, everyone gets credit."
Bogut says advanced statistics helped key his shift. He started using them to help with scouting reports and appreciates that they have helped fans and front offices see his value beyond traditional numbers.
He leads the NBA in defensive rating, an estimate of points allowed per possession by a given player. But the impact is more than one-sided. Consider that defensive-minded, low-scoring centers Tyson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan and Gobert are in the top five in offensive rating, which measures points produced per possession by a player.
That's where the modern basketball theory comes in. The pick-and-roll, dribble hand-off and corner three-pointer are keys to efficient offenses, particularly because the NBA has reduced one-on-one play by allowing zone defense. So pounding the ball into the post no longer works in the same way it did. Even dominant offensive big men, such as Sacramento Kings center DeMarcus Cousins and Charlotte Hornets center Al Jefferson, must find new ways to score.
Memphis Grizzlies center Marc Gasol saw his scoring rise to career-high levels in the fall, part necessity and part strategy. His high-post game and 7-2 frame forced defenses to adjust to him. But they did, and he did not seem surprised that his scoring dropped from 20.1 points a game before the new year to 15.7 since.
"Pretty much just what the team asked me to do," Gasol said. "Defense is always going to be my No. 1 priority for us to win games, and offense is a matter of, (I) don't bring the ball up and call plays, so it's just a matter of what the game gives you."
Gasol is the only center averaging more than 16 points per game this season for a team with a winning record.
DEFINING DEFENSE
Memphis Grizzlies center Marc Gasol (33) blocks the shot of Portland Trail Blazers center Robin Lopez (42) during the game at FedExForum. (Photo: Justin Ford-USA TODAY Sports)
Yet those scoring big men still can be a problem. Cousins, the consensus pick for the NBA's most dominant center, has posted 28- and 26-point games on Bogut and 34- and 23-point games on Chandler this season. But the Kings lost all four of those games, and Bogut and Chandler had double-digit positive plus-minus ratings.
That's not an indictment on Cousins, who has been tremendous this season on both ends for the Kings. It simply shows what the real role of a center is in today's game.
"You've got to help no matter who you're playing," Gasol said. "It's not about your man scoring. I know at the end of the day, there's the totals. And they'll be talking (expletive) if you let your man score all the points. You don't want that. But you've got to do what's best for the team. Now you see some guys, they don't help so they can get the rebound. That just hurts your team."
Centers form the last wall for defenses. That puts a premium on positioning and communication. Bogut is the only veteran in the top 10 in blocks per minute played, but he can afford to go for swats because the Warriors play such aggressive team defense.
Bogut also leads NBA big men in points saved at the rim per game, according to the analytics website NylonCalculus.com. He contests 62.2% of opponents' shots at the rim, also best in the league, and holds them to 40.5% shooting, second best.
His closest rival there is Gobert, who is second in points saved at the rim allowing opponents to shoot 39.5% from close. This is how the 22-year-old Frenchman, nicknamed "The Stifle Tower," has made his name as a fan and stathead favorite in his second season: He has his teammates' trust, thanks to great communication.
"I tell them to be very aggressive on the perimeter so that we don't give up wide-open shots. Make the guy drive at me," Gobert said. "When the guy comes to the paint, I'm right there.
"That was the main thing for us since the beginning of the season: being able to communicate because it's the most important thing in team defense."
Gasol prefers a more patient approach. He waits on the back line of the "Grit 'n' Grind" Grizzlies' defense, calling out screens and helping his teammates help him. He's 30th in blocks per minute this season and was 24th when he won defensive player of the year in 2012-13. But he may be the best in the league at organizing and leading the defensive attack.
"You can be a great shot-blocker, but defense has a lot more to do than just blocking shots or rebounding," Gasol said. "Those are just one aspect of the defense. Defense is about communication, it's being true to the scheme. If you leave your man in the back because that's the right coverage and your man scores, that's not about you but the guys behind.
"We try to individualize too much with one guy when defense is really about — of course there's one-on-one responsibilities and one-on-one accountability, but — more on the trusting other guys to do the right thing for you than just about you. In the society we live in today, it's all about who scores the most points, who gets the most rebounds and not only doing the right thing but numbers are just too important nowadays."
PROJECTING TO THE FUTURE
That Gobert-Wiggins sequence is emblematic in many ways. Wiggins was the 19-year-old No. 1 overall pick out of Kansas last year, and he has shown why this season. Gobert was the No. 27 pick in 2013, the biggest player in the draft but skinny and raw and unknown.
Yet when they met at the top of those two Wiggins dunk attempts, each winning one battle, they also were near the top of any lists of the best 22-and-younger players in the NBA. (Yes, Anthony Davis indisputably tops this list.)
Gobert fell in the draft because he was perceived as raw and years away from contributing at the NBA level. Teams don't want to end up with the next Saer Sene or Hasheem Thabeet. But players with size and mobility can be molded to fit a system even before they can contribute individually, as second-year centers Gobert, Steven Adams and Gorgui Dieng have shown in their quicker-than-expected ascents to starting jobs.
Trends like these are reflected in future drafts. The NBA spent a decade getting smaller across the board, a response to a need for a faster pace and more open court. The renewed emphasis on size is a reaction to that, a need to prevent easy baskets, particularly by those smaller guards and forwards.
But that doesn't mean the scoring big man is a dead art.
"It all depends on the players that are in the draft classes," said Kings forward-center Reggie Evans, a 13-year NBA veteran who now plays with Cousins. "If you got somebody like Okafor, the kid from Duke, he's the type of player you can run your offense through. Even like DeMarcus, even like (Jefferson). These days, they is kind of going to small-ball a lot, which is a good opportunity for blue-collar players like myself who will accept just rebounding, setting picks, getting guys open and bringing a lot of energy to the game. But it just all depends on who that guy is, who that draft pick is, whether it's someone you can run the offense through."
Praise of Cousins was widespread from opponents, who talked about how much he wears them out down low and can affect their help defense. Finding a skilled big man on that level is so rare that teams won't pass them up, as good a reason as any why Okafor may go ahead of bigger, more athletic and more defensive-oriented Towns.
Offense also is the more attractive side, for all the reasons Gasol bemoans. Post scoring and rebounding get you a maximum-level contract, and the game does slow down in the playoffs.
And when Gobert was asked about about what he needs to improve, he responded succinctly: "My offensive game."
bob
.
Do low-post scoring centers make sense in the NBA?
Adi Joseph, USA TODAY Sports 6:23 p.m. EDT April 6, 2015
(Photo: Brad Rempel-USA TODAY Sports)
Rudy Gobert flexed. The 7-foot-1 Utah Jazz center lorded over his fallen opponent, rookie of the year favorite Andrew Wiggins, giving him a quick taunt for good measure. The message was clear: The paint is Gobert's territory. Stay out.
Wiggins, the Minnesota Timberwolves small forward, had dunked over Gobert on the previous possession during Monday's 20-point Jazz victory. But his attempt at a repeat left him on the ground, his dunk blocked viciously by the best young rim protector in the NBA.
Gobert serves as a poster child for a movement in redefining the center position. Nearly gone are post-up centers of the past, the 20-point, 10-rebound superstars that defined basketball in the past. Today's centers focus on help defense and screen-setting, often playing at the top of the key to set up a well-spaced offense featuring two to four adept shooters on the perimeter.
The model comes as a result of rule changes, offensive innovations and a dearth of top-flight post-playing centers. But the impact is obvious, sweeping the NBA playoff picture and potentially playing a deciding role in the No. 1 pick debate for this year's NBA draft, between high-scoring Jahlil Okafor of Duke and versatile Karl-Anthony Towns of Kentucky.
As USA TODAY Sports discussed the modern center position with some of the NBA's best, a theme emerged: Defense comes first, second and third.
"There's a lot of factors, but first of all is the mindset," Gobert said. "Some guys don't worry about defense. They just want to score. But I think if you want to win, you know, you've got to worry about defense."
Former No. 1 pick Andrew Bogut is playing an important role for the Warriors. (Photo: Anthony Gruppuso, USA TODAY Sports)
CHANGING WITH THE GAME
Andrew Bogut was drafted first overall in 2005 by the Milwaukee Bucks because of his ball skills. He was compared to Vlade Divac, a big man to build an offense around because of his remarkable passing skills shown in college at Utah.
Now in his 10th season, Bogut averages 6.2 points and 2.7 assists in 23.8 minutes a game, all down from his career averages. Yet he may be playing the best basketball of his life, the defensive linchpin for the NBA's best team, the Golden State Warriors.
"You're trying to go out there and get 20-and-10, and you're putting too much pressure on yourself," Bogut said. "But you come to soon realize that numbers are great, but letters are better. If you're getting wins, everyone gets credit."
Bogut says advanced statistics helped key his shift. He started using them to help with scouting reports and appreciates that they have helped fans and front offices see his value beyond traditional numbers.
He leads the NBA in defensive rating, an estimate of points allowed per possession by a given player. But the impact is more than one-sided. Consider that defensive-minded, low-scoring centers Tyson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan and Gobert are in the top five in offensive rating, which measures points produced per possession by a player.
That's where the modern basketball theory comes in. The pick-and-roll, dribble hand-off and corner three-pointer are keys to efficient offenses, particularly because the NBA has reduced one-on-one play by allowing zone defense. So pounding the ball into the post no longer works in the same way it did. Even dominant offensive big men, such as Sacramento Kings center DeMarcus Cousins and Charlotte Hornets center Al Jefferson, must find new ways to score.
Memphis Grizzlies center Marc Gasol saw his scoring rise to career-high levels in the fall, part necessity and part strategy. His high-post game and 7-2 frame forced defenses to adjust to him. But they did, and he did not seem surprised that his scoring dropped from 20.1 points a game before the new year to 15.7 since.
"Pretty much just what the team asked me to do," Gasol said. "Defense is always going to be my No. 1 priority for us to win games, and offense is a matter of, (I) don't bring the ball up and call plays, so it's just a matter of what the game gives you."
Gasol is the only center averaging more than 16 points per game this season for a team with a winning record.
DEFINING DEFENSE
Memphis Grizzlies center Marc Gasol (33) blocks the shot of Portland Trail Blazers center Robin Lopez (42) during the game at FedExForum. (Photo: Justin Ford-USA TODAY Sports)
Yet those scoring big men still can be a problem. Cousins, the consensus pick for the NBA's most dominant center, has posted 28- and 26-point games on Bogut and 34- and 23-point games on Chandler this season. But the Kings lost all four of those games, and Bogut and Chandler had double-digit positive plus-minus ratings.
That's not an indictment on Cousins, who has been tremendous this season on both ends for the Kings. It simply shows what the real role of a center is in today's game.
"You've got to help no matter who you're playing," Gasol said. "It's not about your man scoring. I know at the end of the day, there's the totals. And they'll be talking (expletive) if you let your man score all the points. You don't want that. But you've got to do what's best for the team. Now you see some guys, they don't help so they can get the rebound. That just hurts your team."
Centers form the last wall for defenses. That puts a premium on positioning and communication. Bogut is the only veteran in the top 10 in blocks per minute played, but he can afford to go for swats because the Warriors play such aggressive team defense.
Bogut also leads NBA big men in points saved at the rim per game, according to the analytics website NylonCalculus.com. He contests 62.2% of opponents' shots at the rim, also best in the league, and holds them to 40.5% shooting, second best.
His closest rival there is Gobert, who is second in points saved at the rim allowing opponents to shoot 39.5% from close. This is how the 22-year-old Frenchman, nicknamed "The Stifle Tower," has made his name as a fan and stathead favorite in his second season: He has his teammates' trust, thanks to great communication.
"I tell them to be very aggressive on the perimeter so that we don't give up wide-open shots. Make the guy drive at me," Gobert said. "When the guy comes to the paint, I'm right there.
"That was the main thing for us since the beginning of the season: being able to communicate because it's the most important thing in team defense."
Gasol prefers a more patient approach. He waits on the back line of the "Grit 'n' Grind" Grizzlies' defense, calling out screens and helping his teammates help him. He's 30th in blocks per minute this season and was 24th when he won defensive player of the year in 2012-13. But he may be the best in the league at organizing and leading the defensive attack.
"You can be a great shot-blocker, but defense has a lot more to do than just blocking shots or rebounding," Gasol said. "Those are just one aspect of the defense. Defense is about communication, it's being true to the scheme. If you leave your man in the back because that's the right coverage and your man scores, that's not about you but the guys behind.
"We try to individualize too much with one guy when defense is really about — of course there's one-on-one responsibilities and one-on-one accountability, but — more on the trusting other guys to do the right thing for you than just about you. In the society we live in today, it's all about who scores the most points, who gets the most rebounds and not only doing the right thing but numbers are just too important nowadays."
PROJECTING TO THE FUTURE
That Gobert-Wiggins sequence is emblematic in many ways. Wiggins was the 19-year-old No. 1 overall pick out of Kansas last year, and he has shown why this season. Gobert was the No. 27 pick in 2013, the biggest player in the draft but skinny and raw and unknown.
Yet when they met at the top of those two Wiggins dunk attempts, each winning one battle, they also were near the top of any lists of the best 22-and-younger players in the NBA. (Yes, Anthony Davis indisputably tops this list.)
Gobert fell in the draft because he was perceived as raw and years away from contributing at the NBA level. Teams don't want to end up with the next Saer Sene or Hasheem Thabeet. But players with size and mobility can be molded to fit a system even before they can contribute individually, as second-year centers Gobert, Steven Adams and Gorgui Dieng have shown in their quicker-than-expected ascents to starting jobs.
Trends like these are reflected in future drafts. The NBA spent a decade getting smaller across the board, a response to a need for a faster pace and more open court. The renewed emphasis on size is a reaction to that, a need to prevent easy baskets, particularly by those smaller guards and forwards.
But that doesn't mean the scoring big man is a dead art.
"It all depends on the players that are in the draft classes," said Kings forward-center Reggie Evans, a 13-year NBA veteran who now plays with Cousins. "If you got somebody like Okafor, the kid from Duke, he's the type of player you can run your offense through. Even like DeMarcus, even like (Jefferson). These days, they is kind of going to small-ball a lot, which is a good opportunity for blue-collar players like myself who will accept just rebounding, setting picks, getting guys open and bringing a lot of energy to the game. But it just all depends on who that guy is, who that draft pick is, whether it's someone you can run the offense through."
Praise of Cousins was widespread from opponents, who talked about how much he wears them out down low and can affect their help defense. Finding a skilled big man on that level is so rare that teams won't pass them up, as good a reason as any why Okafor may go ahead of bigger, more athletic and more defensive-oriented Towns.
Offense also is the more attractive side, for all the reasons Gasol bemoans. Post scoring and rebounding get you a maximum-level contract, and the game does slow down in the playoffs.
And when Gobert was asked about about what he needs to improve, he responded succinctly: "My offensive game."
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 61467
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Do Low-Post Scoring Centers Make Sense In The NBA?
by wide clyde Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:24 pm
Being an old guy I still think that a good low post center more than still has his place in the NBA.
The low post center has to be good at many things, however and he cannot just be a guy you find on a street corner who happens to be tall. He has to be able to set screens, he has to have a jump shot out to about 8 feet and he has to have post moves over either shoulder. He also has to be at least decent in shooting free throws unlike some of these current NBA guys who shoot below 50%.
If you have this guy he can do the following: he can score between 14-18 points per game even if mostly off put backs and free throws, he can prevent the other team's shot blocker from wandering all over the place, he can draw fouls on said shot blocker, he can set screens to free up other players, he can add to the offensive rebound totals for his team which create either put back opportunities or an additional possession.
I will agree that finding such a guy is not going to be easy as even just about all the college teams seem to want their centers to concentrate much more on three point shooting than I like, but if you can find one he still has a role in the NBA.
The low post center has to be good at many things, however and he cannot just be a guy you find on a street corner who happens to be tall. He has to be able to set screens, he has to have a jump shot out to about 8 feet and he has to have post moves over either shoulder. He also has to be at least decent in shooting free throws unlike some of these current NBA guys who shoot below 50%.
If you have this guy he can do the following: he can score between 14-18 points per game even if mostly off put backs and free throws, he can prevent the other team's shot blocker from wandering all over the place, he can draw fouls on said shot blocker, he can set screens to free up other players, he can add to the offensive rebound totals for his team which create either put back opportunities or an additional possession.
I will agree that finding such a guy is not going to be easy as even just about all the college teams seem to want their centers to concentrate much more on three point shooting than I like, but if you can find one he still has a role in the NBA.
wide clyde- Posts : 815
Join date : 2014-10-22
Re: Do Low-Post Scoring Centers Make Sense In The NBA?
by kdp59 Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:36 am
good article that helps explain how the rule changes have made the old post playing center a thing of the past mostly in the NBA of today.
kdp59- Posts : 5709
Join date : 2014-01-05
Age : 64
Re: Do Low-Post Scoring Centers Make Sense In The NBA?
by Sam Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:42 am
It's always interesting to track trends in the NBA. Especially developments that represent brilliant innovations. God knows the Celtics have never had a center who operated mainly out of the high post and was a defensive/rebounding terror but wasn't known as a great scorer. What'll they think of next?
Sam
Sam
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