our personal top ten celtics

Top 6 goofy looking bigs

1. billy paultz
2. Mark landsburger
3. Paul Mokeski
4.randy brewer
5. greg kite
6. Manute Bol

Here's one to remember.......or forget as the case may be



beat

jeb65 wrote:Top 6 goofy looking bigs

1. billy paultz
2. Mark landsburger
3. Paul Mokeski
4.randy brewer
5. greg kite
6. Manute Bol

jeb,

You left off the goofiest looking one of all - Gheorghe Muresan.

best passers

1. magic 2. bird 3. Kidd 4. Maravich 5. Cousy ( i just saw youtube but he may be the best) 4. Jason Kidd (in college and early) 5. Steve Nash 6. Bill Walton

OKAY-MY TOP TEN, SHOWING MY AGE FIRST:

1. THE ONE AND ONLY, BILL RUSSELL.

2. LARRY BIRD

3. BOB COUSY

4. JOHN HAVLICEK

5. BILL SHARMAN

6. KEVIN MCHALE

7. SAM JONES

8. TOM HEINSOHN

9. DAVE COWENS

10. PAUL PIERCE

(I AM REALLY TORN HERE, JO JO WHITE WAS A GREAT CELTIC AS WAS DENNIS JOHNSON. THEY JUST ARE OUTSIDE THE TOP TEN LIST THOUGH)
AND....IF YOU REALLY WANT TO GET TECHNICAL, LETS SAY ROBERT PARISH
AND BILL WALTON, BUT THAT OPENS IT UP FOR KEVIN GARNETT AND RAY ALLEN, AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE MANY THAT PLAYED MANY MORE YEARS THAN THEY DID TO BE INCLUDED IN THIS LIST! SEE, YOU REALLY OPEN UP A KEG OF WORMS WITH THIS ONE. WHERE DOES FRANK RAMSEY FIT IN HERE?

beat wrote:Jeb,

And in thinking a bit more.............there is one very important name I left off, that if it were not for him none of those names I mentioned would be quite as memorable or remembered at all!

Lord Love you Johnny Most "really high above courtside" these days. His grainy voice could pierce thru the worst static and reception on that old Philco radio!! He made the game come to life even though the game hr called was sometimes a bit different than what was really going on. How the hell was I to know that looking at a radio dial!

beat

beat

Hi Beat,

Have you and Marcus been to the new Hall of Fame? You can do a karaoke call of Johnny's Havlicek stole the ball, it is fun! Perhaps next time we head into Boston from my place, if time allows, we can make a quick stop as it is just off the Mass Pike.

Bob

We were there 2 summers ago but I don't recall that.

beat

beat wrote:112288

you stated

Don Chaney - Great defense off the bench and could score when need


Not to be picky but I remember the 70's pretty well and from 72-75 Chaney started alongside Jo Jo.

Tried to find stats that show games started but as of yet can't locate any but I am reasonably sure he started most of the games he played in, in his first stint with the C's.

beat

Beat,

In the first 3 years (1968-1972) he came off the bench and finally became a starter. Then he was traded and came back for a few seasons in the late 1970's off the bench again.

112288

Longest arms I ever saw on a guard!

Sam wrote:Most lists of this type purport to list the "all-time" best when the majority of the voters haven't been around for "all-time" That's why I usually detest such lists because of the obvious biases involved.

Positioning this list as a "personal" one makes the whole thing much fairer and less biased. It also avoids arguments because no one's claiming it involves anything but personal enjoyment; and, if someone says he enjoys something, no one else can reasonably dispute that fact.

I hope no one will mind if I lend the perspective of someone who has been around for what seems like "all-time"...in this case, a passionate fan since Red Auerbach and Bob Cousy joined the team in 1950.

Two caveats: (1) I'm not putting them in any order other than how they popped into my mind because I feel that just getting on this list is sufficient "ranking." (I tended to think chronologically, so you may notice a certain time sequence reflected in the various tiers of selections.) (2) I'm listing players I enjoyed watching rather than focusing on "best" players because I believe there are no "best" players, only "best" teams. However, I would be happy to match the sheer playing quality and pedigree of these guys with any Celtics (or one-team opponents) who ever lived:

• Bob Cousy
• Tom Heinsohn
• Bill Russell
• Sam Jones
• John Havlicek
• Bailey Howell
• Dave Cowens
• Larry Bird
• Robert Parish
• Kevin McHale

Actually, I'd prefer to list 12 in keeping with an NBA active roster size, in which case I'd add:

• Dennis Johnson
• Kevin Garnett

Actually, I'd really prefer to list 15 in keeping with the size of a full NBA roster, in which case I'd add:

• Tom Sanders
• Larry Siegfried
• Ray Allen

Actually, I'd really really prefer to list 20 because I'm older and have more insurance, in which case I'd add:

• K.C. Jones
• Frank Ramsey
• Don Nelson
• Paul Silas
• Tiny Archibald

Honorable mention, and a guy I expect to see much higher on the list over time:

Rajon Rondo

Sam

I'm surprised Sam, no Paul Pierce.

Tough call:
Satch Sanders
Chief
Bill Russell
Sam Jones
KC JOnes
Hondo
Cornbread
Bird
McHale
DJ
....and many more.....

LACeltFan,

I'm immensely grateful for all the things Paul Pierce has done to help make the Celtics winners once again. I most especially give him full credit for putting the team on his back in the '08 finals.

I just don't happen to be a fan of his playing style. I like synergistic, energetic basketball. Only periodically do I see him as facilitating that style; and even less frequently is he a catalyst for that style. I am a major fan of players who, when the going gets tough, seek the solution in collaboration. Paul's default in such instances tends to be to isolation. It's frequently effective, but it doesn't automatically inspire either confidence or enjoyment in me.

I think The Three Amigos have been relatively effective together in their Boston stay because of the excellence of their individual skill sets more than because of their collective synergy. They do certain things well together, but I don't see them as being a well-oiled offensive machine like the great Celtics teams of the 50s, 60s, 70s or 80s. I think that's why it has been their defense that has been their most consistent trademark and their fail safe bailout mechanism. To the extent that they are offensively synergistic, I give a lot of credit to Rondo, although I sometimes feel the offense achieves in spite of being a veritable riptide of conflicting philosophies.

I believe a major difference between the Garnett era and the earlier eras is that the earlier eras featured more balance between superior offense and superior defense. And, while I certainly would never claim Paul Pierce is the sole reason why the Garnett era offense has often been somewhat spotty, neither do I feel Paul has contributed dramatically to its collective smoothness. (In fact, not as much so as KG and Ray, which is why they made the lower echelons of my list and Paul didn't.)

I regard Paul as a fine Celtic who has frequently performed admirably in clutch situations at both ends of the floor. I was claiming, well before they became champions in '08, that I thought Paul Pierce already deserved to have his number retired. He just doesn't embody the style of basketball that I most enjoy watching and associate with an almost guaranteed expectation of success. The days are long gone when I had the confidence to walk around Boston Garden during a really big game, find a loud supporter of the opponent, and bet him $20 to nothing that the Celtics would win the game...and never once lose the bet.

Sam

Sam wrote:

However, I would be happy to match the sheer playing quality and pedigree of these guys with any Celtics (or one-team opponents) who ever lived:

• Bob Cousy
• Tom Heinsohn
• Bill Russell
• Sam Jones
• John Havlicek
• Bailey Howell
• Dave Cowens
• Larry Bird
• Robert Parish
• Kevin McHale

Actually, I'd prefer to list 12 in keeping with an NBA active roster size, in which case I'd add:

• Dennis Johnson
• Kevin Garnett

Actually, I'd really prefer to list 15 in keeping with the size of a full NBA roster, in which case I'd add:

• Tom Sanders
• Larry Siegfried
• Ray Allen


Honorable mention, and a guy I expect to see much higher on the list over time:

Rajon Rondo

Sam-

I was reading your list and thinking about the seven game series all of us will hopefully see in heaven someday. (We'll have a lot of fun options to pass the time up there, I'm sure, but this will be a good one.)

Your list above, matched up against mine, with everyone in their prime. Red vs Phil on the sidelines (no none but those two would be able to keep all of these egos in check). Chick and Johnny Most calling separate broadcasts of the game. I went for the full 15 player roster.


Magic
Kareem
West
Baylor
Kobe
Shaq
Worthy
Wilt
Gail Goodrich
Michael Cooper
Byron Scott
Jamaal Wilkes
Robert Horry
Bob McAdoo
Karl Malone

(I realize the Mailman only played one year in LA, but he was my favorite non-Laker ever, and the year he played he left it all on the floor and was the main reason they even got to the Finals as he was the one voice both Kobe and Shaq respected and listened to in an otherwise toxic environment.)


Honorable mention and a guy I think could go higher on the list over time::

Pau Gasol


I don't know which team would win, but it would truly be a series for the ages. Maybe it should be a best of 700 instead of a best of 7.

Sky,

That makes the prospect of (hopefully) heading upward seem less daunting. Think of the matchups. The only fair thing to do might be to break each team into two sub-teams (you could add Pau and a couple of others to make the numbers work) and play a four-team round robin so that everyone would get to play a lot.

I have no idea who would win either. Hey, how'd this $20 bill get into my hand? lol.

Perhaps four years ago, one of the Filipino posters on the Boston.com site got hold of one of those computer simulation devices. We all voted on the top ten Celtics and top ten Lakers of all-time, and the final lists pretty much represented what I'd consider the cream of the crop of the lists you and have developed.

This guy was a serious technophobe, and was intent on playing it straight and eliminating any possible bias as he put these 20 players into the system and "played" a seven game series. The device included not only the stats of the players but somehow incorporated their tendencies in certain situations.

Despite his serious approach, he really milked it for all it was worth, entertainment-wise. He'd post the results of a game, including a synopsis of the ebbs and flows of the action and a complete box score. He'd let a couple of days go by and report on the next game.

I can't recall how he decided which team had the home court advantage, although I believe it wound up being the Lakers.

The whole thing wound up going the full seven, over a period of two weeks. And, naturally, game seven went into overtime (which he milked for another couple of days). I think a last-second shot by Magic forced a second overtime. (A couple more days.) Finally, as time ran out in the second overtime with the score tied, a player took a shot, which hung on the rim. After another day or two, he posted that the shot had dropped through, but they were reviewing it to determine whether he got it off in time. (I never believed the device was that sophisticated and suspected this was his single concession to suspense.) And he waited over an entire weekend to report the result.

I'm the exact opposite of a tekkie, but I have to admit I got caught up in the drama of the thing, and I was definitely not alone. For days, I went around with the feeling I always get when a playoff game is on the line—like there's a huge rock in the pit of my stomach.

It was totally nerve-wracking. Amazingly true to life.

Take care,

Sam

Sky,

I found the archive on the Boston.com board, and I was inaccurate in two respects. First, the Celtics were given the homecourt advantage because they had won more championships (16-14 at the time of the simulation. And second, it was a six-game series, not a seven-game series.

Just to illustrate how detailed the simulation got, here's just a brief excerpt from the second overtime of game six:

2:09 left in the 2nd OT and Russell on the line for 2. Score is 133-132
Lakers ahead. RUSSELL shooting 2...RUSSELL shoots the 1st of
2...Around... and out...Here's the second free throw...Off the front of
the rim...Wilt CHAMBERLAIN goes up strong for the rebound...Delivers
the outlet pass to BRYANT...BRYANT to CHAMBERLAIN... right of the
key...Bounce pass to BAYLOR...To BRYANT... right of the key...COUSY
steals it!Now to COWENS...Now to RUSSELL...RUSSELL drives to the
hole... Pull up jumper...Rattles out...Rebound... CHAMBERLAIN...Upcourt
to GOODRICH...Shovels it over to BRYANT...BRYANT misses the
layup!Follow-up attempt by O'NEAL... In!135-132... The Lakers by
3......COUSY into the frontcourt... to his right...The Celtics are
calling a play... COUSY puts it into action...Dishes to PIERCE...PIERCE
for 3...Yes! 3-Pointer!GOODRICH dribbles across the midcourt line for
the Lakers...GOODRICH goes inside to BAYLOR...BAYLOR leaves it for
BRYANT...And there's a foul...They're calling the foul on McHALE.
That's his 4th...That's the 1st foul in the last 2 minutes on the
Celtics...CHAMBERLAIN sits down... JOHNSON comes back into the game for
Los Angeles...JOHNSON will bring it in for the Lakers...JOHNSON to
BRYANT... in the paint...Knocked away by COWENS... Out of bounds... The
Lakers retain possession...BAYLOR will inbound...To BRYANT...BRYANT
from around 16 feet...Off the back rim... and now it drops!And a
foul...The foul is on COWENS. It's his 5th...KOBE steps to the line to
complete the 3-point play...He's 7 for 8 from the line today...JONES is
back for the Celtics... he replaces PIERCE...BAYLOR leaves...
CHAMBERLAIN returns for Los Angeles...It's in the air...It's good!...
138-135... The Lakers lead by 3...............

Great to see all those names intertwined.

Sam

....man would I love to see Cowens and Russell standing side by side playing together,what a great defensive and rebounding tandem that would be.

112288

I still believe Chaney started in the 1970-71 season. I still can't find a sourse that shows games started ,only games played and in looking at the roster who do you think started in front of him? I'm pretty sure the starters were Cowens, Hondo Nellie JoJo and Chaney as it would remain for the next 3 years. (with the exception of Silas starting when he arrived and Nellie coming off the bench)

Chaney had the 4th most minutes on the team. Hambone Williams never started and Morgan was a rook.

plus Chaney was all defensive second team in 71-72 and I doubt he'd have gotten that comming off the bench.

beat

here is a bit more

The Celtics made wholesale changes before the 1970-71 campaign. Their new center was 6-9 rookie Dave Cowens. John Havlicek and nine-year veteran Don Nelson occupied the forward positions, and Don Chaney and Jo Jo White, a pair of 24-year-olds, provided both defense and scoring at the guard positions.

Ok, mine might be a little pathetic, but it is what it is! I feel like I should only use players that I remember watching play which rules out the majority of the Celtics greats.

1. Larry Bird
2. Kevin McHale
3. Robert Parish
4. Antoine Walker (I can't help it, there wasn't much to cheer about during the 90's)
5. Paul Pierce
6. Walter McCarty (Tommy loves Waltah...so do I)
7. Dana Barros (I always pull for the little guy, plus he's a local who went to high school about 500 yards from where I'm sitting right now)
8. Rajon Rondo
9. Al Jefferson (I actually felt hopeful about the C's for the first time when we signed Al)
10. Ryan Gomes (I would love to see Ryan back in green someday)

GYSO

I'm not sure of a lot of things but when I read 112288's post about Chaney coming off the bench I thought it seemed wrong. Yeah I've seen the same stuff you posted.

Loved those early 70 teams, what a blend of vets and youth. Watched the Knicks celebrate their 1970 championship team last eve. When they showed their 2 banners I still get pissed cause the 73 one should have been ours for we had the best team that season if not for a bum Hondo shoulder we'd have won it (and almost did anyway).

beat

beat

no ones mentioned Dino Radja for Petes sake!

For the time he was here, Paul Silas was one terrific Celtic. I couldn't believe it when they let him go. That hurt that team alot. What a great rebounder, big body under the basket. So I agree with you there. Larry Siegfried? He was an enigma. I loved him while he was here, but after Sam retired and the ball was handed to Larry, he just didn't play the way they expected him too. He certainly was a player with energy and never afraid to put his body on the floor. I loved his game. Reggie , he will be forever young to Celtic fans. He would have turned into a true superstar. The only thing is, if we hadn't lost Bias, we may never have gotten Reggie.
That whole subject turns my stomach! They both were such terrifc players.

We could add player after player. Let's face it, we are true, die hard Celtic
fans who really embrace most any player who gives his all to the green.
However, Russell will always be at the top of the list, with Larry second.

Riosalie,

Siggy really had a shooting guard's mentality. He was a great shooter and was fearless in taking the shots. He was able to play PG for several years, partly because the rest of the team had a ball distribution mentality. When Sam and Russ retired, much of that mentality disappeared (John was then the main proponent) until JoJo matured.

Sam

gyso wrote:beat,

Here is some Chaney 70-71 stuff:

http://www.celticstats.com/season/7071.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/04/harper2.htm

He started in 71-72:

In the spring of 1971 Dalton was drafted by the Boston Celtics, but he didn't make the team that started Dave Cowens, John Havlicek, Don Nelson, Jo Jo White, and Don Chaney, and went 56-26 in 1971-1972

It's hard to find out who started. I don't think they kept that as a stat back then. I was looking for a stat sheet that included "GS" or Games Started and found nothing.

gyso

Guy's,

He did get the starting roll in 1971 -72 season, but he was great off the bench in the first two seasons in which I attended games in Boston. He also came back in the late 1970's and came off the bench. After so many years and watching basketball things get blurry after 40 years.

112288

112288 wrote:

gyso wrote:beat,

Here is some Chaney 70-71 stuff:

http://www.celticstats.com/season/7071.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/04/harper2.htm

He started in 71-72:

In the spring of 1971 Dalton was drafted by the Boston Celtics, but he didn't make the team that started Dave Cowens, John Havlicek, Don Nelson, Jo Jo White, and Don Chaney, and went 56-26 in 1971-1972

It's hard to find out who started. I don't think they kept that as a stat back then. I was looking for a stat sheet that included "GS" or Games Started and found nothing.

gyso

Guy's,

He did get the starting roll in 1971 -72 season, but he was great off the bench in the first two seasons in which I attended games in Boston. He also came back in the late 1970's and came off the bench. After so many years and watching basketball things get blurry after 40 years.

112288

Rich saw your comments on Walker on the BDS,couldn't agree with you more,pisses me off they never gave the kid a chance