Comments From The Other Side - Pacers, Home

I bet Danny Ainge trades Smart this year while he still has some value. I'm not sure he's good, or ever going to be. He has Tony Allen written all over him.  (MY NOTE:  Tony Allen is All-Defense and is rated one of, if not the, #1 perimeter defender in the league every year.  I'd be ecstatic if that is who Smart turns into)

rambone wrote:Smart's 33.5 was above the Celtics team average. And after Nov and December, the first two months of his NBA career, he shot like 37% the rest of the season, despite shooting a lot of shots and a lot of high-degree-of-difficulty 3s.

I think Smart will settle into a 35-36% career NBA shooter.  Wade and Westbrook never once even shot the 33.5% that Smart shot his rookie season, and Kobe only ever had a couple seasons shooting better than that.

I think the Cs should have sat Smart out another game, or more, because he was limping after the game. That toe might now be an issue all season.

steve3344 wrote:

rambone wrote:Smart's 33.5 was above the Celtics team average. And after Nov and December, the first two months of his NBA career, he shot like 37% the rest of the season, despite shooting a lot of shots and a lot of high-degree-of-difficulty 3s.

I think Smart will settle into a 35-36% career NBA shooter.  Wade and Westbrook never once even shot the 33.5% that Smart shot his rookie season, and Kobe only ever had a couple seasons shooting better than that.

I think the Cs should have sat Smart out another game, or more, because he was limping after the game. That toe might now be an issue all season.

Kobe has had eight seasons shooting threes at better than 33.5%.  That's significantly more than "a couple."

rambone wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

rambone wrote:Smart's 33.5 was above the Celtics team average. And after Nov and December, the first two months of his NBA career, he shot like 37% the rest of the season, despite shooting a lot of shots and a lot of high-degree-of-difficulty 3s.

I think Smart will settle into a 35-36% career NBA shooter.  Wade and Westbrook never once even shot the 33.5% that Smart shot his rookie season, and Kobe only ever had a couple seasons shooting better than that.

I think the Cs should have sat Smart out another game, or more, because he was limping after the game. That toe might now be an issue all season.

Kobe has had eight seasons shooting threes at better than 33.5%.  That's significantly more than "a couple."

My bad, I didn't double check. Kobe's career 3pt% is/was less than Smart's though, 33.2.

rambone wrote:Considering Smart is already an elite defender, with a passable 3 point shot even on high volume, I'm not really worried about him, at all.

Kawhi Leonard averaged like 16 points a game last year and was considered a top 10-15 player.

I see Smart averaging 16-18 ppg for his career and being an elite top 15 player. That's good enough for me.

Smart's already an All Defense level defender like Allen and Leonard. There's already nothing to complain about. He's already probably our best player when healthy.

If Smart ends up peaking at 13-14 ppg, that's just fine with me too. He's still a defensive star and extremely versatile on offense and defense, and one of the better leaders in the NBA.

steve3344 wrote:

rambone wrote:Considering Smart is already an elite defender, with a passable 3 point shot even on high volume, I'm not really worried about him, at all.

Kawhi Leonard averaged like 16 points a game last year and was considered a top 10-15 player.

I see Smart averaging 16-18 ppg for his career and being an elite top 15 player. That's good enough for me.

Smart's already an All Defense level defender like Allen and Leonard. There's already nothing to complain about. He's already probably our best player when healthy.

If Smart ends up peaking at 13-14 ppg, that's just fine with me too. He's still a defensive star and extremely versatile on offense and defense, and one of the better leaders in the NBA.

"I see Smart averaging 16-18 ppg for his career."

Okay...........  

Like every other opinion you have on Celtic players, I'd say Smart averaging 16-18 ppg for his career is just A TAD optimistic.  Just a tad.  One small item - he needs to develop a reliable jump shot first.  And it's a little late for that being that he's already a pro.  Even Dennis Johnson had that and he only averaged 14.1 for his career.  I pray to God Marcus Smart could come CLOSE to the career Dennis Johnson had but I'm not banking on it.

I'll take the under.

rambone wrote:

steve3344 wrote:

rambone wrote:Considering Smart is already an elite defender, with a passable 3 point shot even on high volume, I'm not really worried about him, at all.

Kawhi Leonard averaged like 16 points a game last year and was considered a top 10-15 player.

I see Smart averaging 16-18 ppg for his career and being an elite top 15 player. That's good enough for me.

Smart's already an All Defense level defender like Allen and Leonard. There's already nothing to complain about. He's already probably our best player when healthy.

If Smart ends up peaking at 13-14 ppg, that's just fine with me too. He's still a defensive star and extremely versatile on offense and defense, and one of the better leaders in the NBA.

"I see Smart averaging 16-18 ppg for his career."

Okay...........  

Like every other opinion you have on Celtic players, I'd say Smart averaging 16-18 ppg for his career is just A TAD optimistic.  Just a tad.  One small item - he needs to develop a reliable jump shot first.  And it's a little late for that being that he's already a pro.  Even Dennis Johnson had that and he only averaged 14.1 for his career.  I pray to God Marcus Smart could come CLOSE to the career Dennis Johnson had but I'm not banking on it.

I'll take the under.

Way to bet low on a second year player who is universally known to be a workaholic. Smart already averaged 7.8 as a rookie and is averaging 11ppg this year.

But you'll take the under on 14 for his career.

gyso wrote:Steve,

I can see where rambone may have thought your under was in relation to DJ's numbers.  You made the under statement right after an entire paragraph about DJ, without any suggestion that it was in relation to something you wrote earlier.

Generally speaking, we should all calm down a bit about thinking that others are reading our words and taking them out of context.  It all goes back to what our elementary school grammar teachers said.  Put your ideas and thoughts into words and put your words into complete sentences.  When you follow those rules, writing leads to less misinterpretation.

gyso

rambone wrote:Steve, you're way off on Smart. There's nothing embarrassing about comparing him to those guys.

Smart's already a much better defender than Westbrook, in addition to being a better 3 point shooter and a better passer.

Simple FG% doesn't mean anything by itself, not when half a player's shots are worth 3 points.

Effective FG% is much more important, because it factors in the obvious difference in value of a 3 point shot.

You can cherry pick straight FG% if you want to, but doing so will always favor guys who don't/can't shoot 3s.

Westbrook's EFG% last year was 45.5%
Smart's EFG% last year, as a rookie, was 46.2%.

Smart's Defensive Real Plus Minus as a rookie was 1.05.
Westbrook's Defensive Real Plus Minus last year was -.71.

Smart had the 67th best Overall Real Plus Minus in the league last year. Wade was 164th. Westbrook was 6th. The year before he was 13th.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2015/sort/RPM

You might prefer high volume scorers with slightly better overall FG% than what Smart had as a rookie, but you might be surprised to find that most of them are vastly inferior defenders to Smart.

Like Rondo. People thought he was a good defender for years after he stopped even trying. Kobe was getting All Defense team awards long after he stopped being a good defender.

Westbrook was a defensive liability last season, even though he racked up lots of steals. Rondo used to rack up the steals and stink at the same time as well.

Wade was a Major defensive liability last year, it's just that one wouldn't notice because he has a historical reputation as a great defender.

You've probably heard the term "3 and D". Smart fits that right now, except his defense is not just good, it's elite.

What really separated Westbrook from Smart last year was his True Shooting %, which is even more comprehensive than Effective FG%. True FG% accounts for free throws, in addition to accounting for 3 pointers. Westbrook got to the line at a crazy high rate.

Smart is already getting to the line at an improved rate from last year, and in college he got to the line about as much as James Harden did.

So Smart will keep getting better at getting to the FT line, shooting floaters, and finishing around the rim.

But he's already a top 70 player, and he can be a top 10-15 player without even putting up flashy stats or fg%. Westbrook only shot 42% FG last year, and he was an MVP candidate that was a below average defender.

An elite defender like Smart or Kawhi Leonard can score 16 ppg and be a top 12-15 player.

So I'm "way off on Smart. There's nothing embarrassing about comparing him to those guys," meaning Wade, Westbrook and Kobe.

I'm way off? Wade and Kobe will be first ballot Hall of Famers and if Westbrook just maintains his play for another half dozen years he will be too. Guess you're predicting the same thing for Marcus. Already.

rambone wrote:Steve, you're way off on Smart. There's nothing embarrassing about comparing him to those guys.

Smart's already a much better defender than Westbrook, in addition to being a better 3 point shooter and a better passer.

Simple FG% doesn't mean anything by itself, not when half a player's shots are worth 3 points.

Effective FG% is much more important, because it factors in the obvious difference in value of a 3 point shot.

You can cherry pick straight FG% if you want to, but doing so will always favor guys who don't/can't shoot 3s.

Westbrook's EFG% last year was 45.5%
Smart's EFG% last year, as a rookie, was 46.2%.

Smart's Defensive Real Plus Minus as a rookie was 1.05.
Westbrook's Defensive Real Plus Minus last year was -.71.

Smart had the 67th best Overall Real Plus Minus in the league last year. Wade was 164th. Westbrook was 6th. The year before he was 13th.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2015/sort/RPM

You might prefer high volume scorers with slightly better overall FG% than what Smart had as a rookie, but you might be surprised to find that most of them are vastly inferior defenders to Smart.

Like Rondo. People thought he was a good defender for years after he stopped even trying. Kobe was getting All Defense team awards long after he stopped being a good defender.

Westbrook was a defensive liability last season, even though he racked up lots of steals. Rondo used to rack up the steals and stink at the same time as well.

Wade was a Major defensive liability last year, it's just that one wouldn't notice because he has a historical reputation as a great defender.

You've probably heard the term "3 and D". Smart fits that right now, except his defense is not just good, it's elite.

What really separated Westbrook from Smart last year was his True Shooting %, which is even more comprehensive than Effective FG%. True FG% accounts for free throws, in addition to accounting for 3 pointers. Westbrook got to the line at a crazy high rate.

Smart is already getting to the line at an improved rate from last year, and in college he got to the line about as much as James Harden did.

So Smart will keep getting better at getting to the FT line, shooting floaters, and finishing around the rim.

But he's already a top 70 player, and he can be a top 10-15 player without even putting up flashy stats or fg%. Westbrook only shot 42% FG last year, and he was an MVP candidate that was a below average defender.

An elite defender like Smart or Kawhi Leonard can score 16 ppg and be a top 12-15 player.

kdp59 wrote:Bob, these are always good fun reads THANKS!!!

The Sully must be Smarts BF one was especially funny, because when I first saw them this year I thought the very same thing.

come on guys......then I remember they are still really children.


one another note I think maybe it's time for the mods to quite trying to "protect" someone who continues to annoy more and more posters here.

just a thought.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Thats hysterical even putting KO in the same sentence with Hondo, McHale, Walton.

David Lee and Jerebko do similar things as KO, bigs that have some perimeter skills and open space skills, lets compare them to Hondo, McHale and Walton too.

kdp59 wrote:never mind!!!

I promised myself I'd stay out of this BS.


play on.

rambone wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Thats hysterical even putting KO in the same sentence with Hondo, McHale, Walton.

David Lee and Jerebko do similar things as KO, bigs that have some perimeter skills and open space skills, lets compare them to Hondo, McHale and Walton too.

David Lee has perimeter skills? You're the first person in the world to ever say that.

As far as Olynyk, I was just saying that a super-sub has real value, and shouldn't be dismissed as trash just because they come off the bench and can't lock down Okafor or Cousins.

If you didn't hate the guy so much, you wouldn't start convincing yourself that David Lee has perimeter skills.