Exhibition Game of 10/20/09 against the Knicks

I'm not going to be posting many of my own thoughts about the last two exhibition games because they're pretty much playing out the string, and any important implications derived from these games could be faulty or even misleading. I figure it's now time to prepare for a preseason review of the Celtics and their chances, and I'll be starting a thread about that after the exhibition season ends.

In the meantime, please use this thread for any comments you'd like to post about last night's game vs. the Knicks. For whatever it's worth, Daniels was my MVP. I was impressed that KG continued his practice of selectively running the floor with abandon. Sweetney was sick, and they sent him home so he wouldn't be a flu risk for the rest of the team. Perhaps that seals his fate as the odd man out in the roster scramble.

There will be a game-on thread for tonight's game, although we won't be having any contests. So far, Swede and Bobc have been the two winners of a free year's subscription to this board.

I'm hoping that, prior to the start of the season, we can settle on some stats that are not readily available but that we'd like to keep on an ongoing basis. They could be stats kept personally by appointed members of the board; or they could be stats derived by combining stats that are readily available. for example, one of my favorites is the assist-to-field goal ratio (and I know Beat concurs). I'll start a thread on this topic shortly.

Thanks to everyone who has posted on the game-on threads so far. For exhibition games, I think the number of posts has been quite encouraging, and I expect it will mushroom once the season starts.

Anyway, feel free to post about last night's game on this thread.

Best regards,

Sam

I knew virtually nothing about a very versatile MDaniels (never stood out as a player) prior to the Cs picking him up... but this kid can really play. He can distribute the ball, make the extra pass, play "D" and is simply lethal in the paint and going to the rim. No ego problems that I can see. He will fill whatever role is needed depending on the circumstances, depending on the matchups.

He should flourish on a great team in the company of 4 HOFs. In a very real sense IMHO, a bigger pickup that Sheed who I am finally beginning to appreciate as a player after so many years playing in a the wrong color uniform.

More dividends for sure for the C's when quality players like Quis and Sheed want to play in Beantown and add to the rich Celtic lore.

GC

Sam

While watching the game last eve (or at least attempting too as Marcus is still a baseball nut and hates the Yankees)

I followed the box score on NBA.com. You can follow that or an ongoing play by play or this ongoing updated game summary. It does not have the assist to FG ratio but you can go to theboxscore with a click and look at all of the stats that are continually updated and done so quickly. I swear a C made a foul shot and it was updated before the ball hit the floor.

I used to use Yahoo to check stats as the game goes on but their updates are poor at best.

Here is what they nba.com refers to as stats at a glance.

	Celtics	Knicks
Turnovers:	17	16
Fast Break Pts:	12	15
Biggest Lead:	7	8
Unanswered Pts:	0	5
Points in the Paint:	58	40

There are shooting %s too but I can't get them to copy and paste.

beat

Good people of green,

I said this in another thread but to repeat it.

I hope Sheed don't set up camp outside the three line. I like that he can shoot it. I love the "Stretch the floor" talk. But he needs to be a threat inside and he needs to post lesser players up. If he is shooting threes he is also out of posistion to rebound. I know when players get a little older they start to settle for j's. I think Sheed will do what's asked of him in the reg season.

We need both Sheed and KG to be a force inside on O.

Other than that I dont like to lose to a low rent squad like that but it is preseason and I aint worried. The one thing is we must win those games against bad teams at a high % if we expect to have homecourt.

Jeb

Jeb,

I agree about Sheed camping out at the three point line. It frustrates me a little because he has great post up/rebounding skills, but he won't be using them if he's constantly playing the perimeter. Don't get me wrong, I love that he's so versatile, but he's not taking advantage of that versatility if he's constantly planting himself out deep. Of course I'll be singing a different tune on those nights that he's lighting it up from out there

Overall, I do wish our big men played more like big men. I'm encouraged by the improvement in Perks offensive game though. When Baby and Sheed are in the game together, I'd honestly rather see Sheed inside and Baby outside. Baby worked hard on that little jumper and was fairly consistent with it last year. Sheed has a much better inside game than Baby due to his height/experience. Would any one else rather see this, or is it just me?

KellyG

Baby seems to be much more active and a step quicker this year. If he wants to assert himself inside as well as out I am cool with it. I like you would love to see Sheed inside AND out. For me it's the same for BBD.

I have been very happy to see baby moving so quickly.

I have been VERY happy to see the fight this second unit shows and when they gel I think they will see a ton of action. Good for us bad for everyone else.

Jeb

I'd love to see more variety in the play calling resulting in Baby and Sheed switching off on who's playing inside and who's playing outside. Maybe it's already happened and I just missed it.

You're right about the bench looking mighty impressive. I thought they would need more time to learn each others games, what with two new key players being added, but they seem to have clicked already. Good things are coming, I can feel it!

Oh, BTW, what is the picture in your avatar Jeb?

Kelly G

A very sad clown my friend Vid saw in the mission district in sf. I thought it was strangely beautiful.

Best

Jeb

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but that is what Sheed does….period. In fact, I think he has spent more time trying to post up this exhibition season than I have seen in years.

Bottom line is that he has moved his game further and further from the paint as his career has gone on – and this was exactly why he was available this off season. However, if you have other strong rebounders on the team (like Baby, Daniels and Giddens), I think the impact of him being away from the basket isnt as big a deal.

He is playing pretty solid defense and understands the system pretty well already. He always has hands up in the passing lane and is a strong defensive rebounder. And when his shot is on, he seriously spreads the floor. If you wanted a post up PF, you got the wrong guy. But I think we are going to be pleasantly surprised with what he brings to the floor every night.

Love his intensity…and if he gets technical because of legit bad calls, I can live with that too.

All valid points mrkleen. I do love the defense he brings to the C's, and I think deep down I knew he wouldn't turn into a post up guy just because he put on a new uniform, but I can hope, right? It's really nothing new, the Celtics offense hasn't centered around a big post up guy in recent years. I think that's why I liked Powe so much. He was a monster inside, in spite of his lack of height.

I don't want to sound like I'm complaining (ok, maybe I am a little). I think we've got the tools for #18 and I just really hope they are used to their full potential!

Kelly

we all want that!!
18 that is.

Doc as you know will give minutes to the kids if they earn them. Appears the 5 off the bench were in action "most" of the last quarter last night and will see extensive action again tonight. I doubt the big 3 even suit up.

Powe was very good but he is gone. I really hope he does well too except against us.

beat

Hey Beat,

I was actually referring to Sheed and his post up game (or lack thereof) when I was talking about using all the tools. Perhaps I'm just being greedy! He is a good outside shooter, and his defense is fantastic.

I think Doc does a great job, and I think he will play the young guys when they show him that they deserve it. Certainly a part of me wants to see the rookies more, we all want to find a hidden gem in the second round, right? But I also want to win so I understand not playing them more!

You're right, Powe is gone, and if I look at it objectively, he really wasn't that GREAT. He was good, but still just a bench player. I think, at times, the fact that he was such a good guy made me forget about his deficiencies on the court.

Kelly

I don't think I've seen a poster here or at BDC that doesn't wish that Powe wasn't still on the team. But being caught with a short bench last year in the playoffs killed us.

Powe has had multiple surgeries and although I know he will work hard at rehab to get back I just don't see it this season. Rushing to get back could be the worst thing for him.

Anyway i understood what you meant.

Sheed is what he is. Remember later in McHale's career he started lurking a bit around the trey line and actually shot fairly well out there.
Although he still ahd all the moves in the post he expanted his game a bit.

beat

Unfortunately I'm a little too young to have any vivid memories of McHale shooting from deep. I knew who the players on the Celtics were- Bird, McHale, Parish, Ainge...and I knew they were great, but I can't recall specifics of their game like you and the rest of the posters on the board can! I think that's why I love reading here. You all have provided so much history along with first hand accounts of the glory days.

I think it was a lot easier for me to watch the C's lose all those years because I hadn't seen them win for so long and then slip into mediocrity. IMO, they still played like winners, they just didn't get the results! And I just loved basketball, it's just a bonus that I happen to live in the state with the greatest basketball franchise ever! My passion for the C's just keeps getting stronger too. I haven't missed a game since before '06-'07 and don't intend to miss any going forward. I'm glad to find a place where everyone else is just as crazy as me

jeb65 wrote:Good people of green,

I said this in another thread but to repeat it.

I hope Sheed don't set up camp outside the three line. I like that he can shoot it. I love the "Stretch the floor" talk. But he needs to be a threat inside and he needs to post lesser players up. If he is shooting threes he is also out of posistion to rebound. I know when players get a little older they start to settle for j's. I think Sheed will do what's asked of him in the reg season.

We need both Sheed and KG to be a force inside on O.

Other than that I dont like to lose to a low rent squad like that but it is preseason and I aint worried. The one thing is we must win those games against bad teams at a high % if we expect to have homecourt.

Jeb

couldn't agree more with you and kellg on this issue. i hope Doc coaches him to shift his play closer to the rim and playing in the paint - that's where we really need him and where i think he'll be the biggest asset. seems to me there's times to stretch the floor, but more times to go inside and bang it around a little as needed.

Jeb, I know that spot in the Mission District. I go down there to visit the California Historical Society, and I used to visit the Chronicle too when Herb Caen was still there. (I miss his presence terribly). There are a lot of sights down there that tug at the heartstrings.

As for Sheed, it seems to me that he's getting a feel of when to be inside and when to move outside, partly depending on whom he's playing with, whether the floor needs another "spreader," whether the lane needs to be opened up for Daniels, etc. There were some plays last night when he started inside and rotated outside because of the flow of the play. I kind of like that awareness, which Scal has too. So I don't believe it's going to be one or the other with Sheed; I think it will depend on the circumstances. (At least I hope so.)

Sam

KellyGreen17 wrote:You're right, Powe is gone, and if I look at it objectively, he really wasn't that GREAT. He was good, but still just a bench player. I think, at times, the fact that he was such a good guy made me forget about his deficiencies on the court.

In two posts, Powe goes from being a "monster inside" to being "just a bench player" with deficiencies.

Let me play troll because I think I would be very good at it.

Leon Powe was the heart and soul of the C's bench for the past two years. Period. You win championships based on the strength of your bench.

That having been said, I hope that Leon kicks the C's asses everytime we play the Cavs in the foreseeable future and rubs DA's nose in the fact that he should never, never, never have let Leon Powe walk/hobble away.

I hope that the C's beat the Cav's asses each time we meet, overcoming Leon Powe's inspired play.

Leon has something to prove to the C's and I cannot and will not root against him.

I bleed Celtic green and I love Leon Powe because Leon is what being a Celtic used to be all about.

Shame on Danny Ainge!

GC

Sam

I am in the mission district right now. Working on a computer mersh. It is indian summer and gorgeous.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone on my sheed thread. I think he is a warrior and am damn glad he is wearing green.

Did he go inside tonite against the cavs?

How was lester?

Wont be able to post much for next 4 days but will try to read up when I can.

Thanks and go celts!

Jeb

GA, is it not possible to be a monster inside and still have deficiencies? He was a great offensive player, not so great on defense. He could take a charge with the best of them, but was not always in position and didn't play great help defense, IMO.

I'm not trying to knock Leon, I already said I was a fan. I'm just trying to be realistic. Sure, I wish the C's had kept him. But I understand why they didn't and I'm moving on. There's too much to be excited about with this team as it is, and it does nobody any good to look back and say what if.

I do agree that winning championships is largely based on the strength of the bench, and I think our bench is stronger now than it was either of the past two years.

Jeb, Sheed was both inside and outside (although probably more of the latter). I think he has the capacity and the smarts to alternate between the two depending on the flow of the game. Lester was once again in there during the last quarter, as they mopped up the game. He once again demonstrated a lot of poise and showed signs of being a scorer just ready to burst out. Except for Sheed and Eddie, that unit was not all that well-organized on offense but kept the Cavs at bay defensively.

After the game, Donnie Marshall (who is growing on me somewhat) said he expected Lester would benefit from going to the D League where he can hone his PG skills and can play a lot. Frankly, I like Lester Pester and Giddens as a duo, so I wish they'd both go (although I hope it wouldn't seem like a setback in the mind of J.R.) and further develop their synergy with one another.

Good luck out there. It's an area that's very, very close to my heart.

Sam

KellyGreen17 wrote:GA, is it not possible to be a monster inside and still have deficiencies? He was a great offensive player, not so great on defense. He could take a charge with the best of them, but was not always in position and didn't play great help defense, IMO.

I'm not trying to knock Leon, I already said I was a fan. I'm just trying to be realistic. Sure, I wish the C's had kept him. But I understand why they didn't and I'm moving on. There's too much to be excited about with this team as it is, and it does nobody any good to look back and say what if.

I do agree that winning championships is largely based on the strength of the bench, and I think our bench is stronger now than it was either of the past two years.

I lost track of this thread. Somebody changed its name. I didn't think that Leon was a great offensive player. Certainly didn't have much range at all(still developing a mid range game) but played well going to the cup and on the blocks. Somewhat stiff and mechanical. On defense, took charges and sacrificed his body... otherwise so so.

Certainly he had deficiencies. That's why he was a bench player, not a starter.

His strength was that he had a nose for the ball and was a relentless rebounder for his size... i.e. a monster. No one worked harder or played with more heart that Leon. All business. Blue collar. Fearless. Exactly who you want coming off of the bench with plenty of energy. Never took the night off. Good in the locker room. All the positive cliches fit. Played for little money. Even better!

Would you rather have TAllen, for example on your bench or a recuperating Leon Powe. I'll take a recovering Powe in a skinny minute. That the Cav's would pick him up so readily and give him exactly the contract the C's should have given him speaks volumes. Rank strangers took him in and gave him another chance.

It's certainly easy to say that we've moved on now and what's done is done and not want to reflect on where our priorities lie. We threw Leon, the quintessential Celtic warrior wounded in action, on the scrap heap and that is very bad karma.

For a team that has suffered way more than its share of tragedy in the last 20 years, we should not be tempting fate.

Red preached loyalty above all. Loyalty involves a willingness to sacrifice to help those who paid the price to bring you success. No sacrifice here. Hands washed. Ties cut.

Beware of bad karma. What goes around.....

GC

Sorry, GC, I'm the one who changed the thread name. I realized that, after a couple of days, the title "Last Night's Game" was going to be kind of misleading. Thanks for your persistence in finding it.

Sam

I would certainly take a recovering Leon over TA, but as far as I know, one has nothing to do with the other. Maybe the C's panicked after having lost three big men last season and wanted to make sure they had players on the roster with a better chance of staying healthy/actually being able to play before the All Star break, than Leon. We all know our top players are no spring chickens, and our window for more championships is closing. Obviously management did what was right for the team, rather than what was right for one bench player. Yes, Leon was a great person and probably deserved to be shown a little more love, but I don't have any hard feelings towards the C's for making a logical business decision. I don't disagree with any of the qualities you listed in Leon, I just feel like it does nobody any good to lament about a situation that is not going to change. Bad Karma? I think the C's will have a little something to say about that! They aren't going to let bad Karma from letting go of Powe ruin their chances this year! They've moved on, so should we! Go Celtics!