What Direction Is This Forum Taking?

[sdceltfan]

I haven't posted for the past few weeks because of the disappointment I had in its direction. I wanted to see where it was going. Of course, questions (in "positive" ways) are now being asked that I questioned 21/2 to 31/2 months ago and since. Course I got chastised for them.

I joined this board because I thought there would be much dissertation. Expected to see varying opinions and insights that would shed new light or "angles" that may have not been apparent. Disagreements, whether politically, socially, or sports oriented have the potential not only to be educational, but offer the possibility of broadening one's self and encouraging growth in a respectful and responsible manner. That unfortunately has not been my experience since December.

I feel there is a prevailing attitude on this board that requests and tolerates only positive messages. It started out relatively subtle, but in my opinion has become more blatant and disrespectful. We all can recall posts to substantiate that. Words such as "naiive", "lacking in basketball knowledge", "negative", and worse. That was not a "negative" poster sending those messages. That was "positive" poster(s) posting those words.

I don't need this board. I would like to continue posting. My wife mentioned the other day how much she feels I should continue. But I am more interested in a board where repectful opinions and insights are treated respectfully, even if they differ with majority assertions. I feel this board has moved closer to a pep club, rather than objective observers who don't feel a need to muffle their opinions.

This board has a great deal of potential to be relevant. I hope that potential is realized. I respect every poster ion this board, and would love nothing more than continue to be a part of it. Just feel the direction has changed.

Respectfully,
sdceltfan

[jeb]

sdcelt

I will let my bigger brained pals take on the conceptual aspects of your post but I will say nice to have you back posting again. Cheers.

jeb

[Pumpsie Green]

I haven't posted for the past few weeks because of the disappointment I had in its direction. I wanted to see where it was going. Of course, questions (in "positive" ways) are now being asked that I questioned 21/2 to 31/2 months ago and since. Course I got chastised for them.

I joined this board because I thought there would be much dissertation. Expected to see varying opinions and insights that would shed new light or "angles" that may have not been apparent. Disagreements, whether politically, socially, or sports oriented have the potential not only to be educational, but offer the possibility of broadening one's self and encouraging growth in a respectful and responsible manner. That unfortunately has not been my experience since December.

I feel there is a prevailing attitude on this board that requests and tolerates only positive messages. It started out relatively subtle, but in my opinion has become more blatant and disrespectful. We all can recall posts to substantiate that. Words such as "naiive", "lacking in basketball knowledge", "negative", and worse. That was not a "negative" poster sending those messages. That was "positive" poster(s) posting those words.

I don't need this board. I would like to continue posting. My wife mentioned the other day how much she feels I should continue. But I am more interested in a board where repectful opinions and insights are treated respectfully, even if they differ with majority assertions. I feel this board has moved closer to a pep club, rather than objective observers who don't feel a need to muffle their opinions.

This board has a great deal of potential to be relevant. I hope that potential is realized. I respect every poster ion this board, and would love nothing more than continue to be a part of it. Just feel the direction has changed.

Respectfully,
sdceltfan

SD Celtfan, I think this board NEEDS posters like you. I have always found what you have to say insightful and thought provoking. You have been one of the posters who has been a counterbalance to those who are enternally optimistic. Before that group gets all up in arms, let me say that I applaud you for being able to take that position and espouse it here.
I think that we need to respect "their" opinion as much as they need to respect the opinion of those of us who see things and write things in a somewhat different light.
One thing that you mentioned that I have noticed to be a recurring theme here as well: the apparent disdain in which those of us who "lack basketball knowledge" are held. You mentioned that in your post. I for one have never considered lack of knowledge to be a transgression. Those who lack knowledge can be taught. It is the immoral and unethical who need to find repentance. Furthermore, those of us who are not as savvy about the sport are not totally unintelligent; we certainly know more about the game than most people who do not post here-and I would guess that most of us are of reasonable intelligence overall. I too am at a loss to explain why we are held in disdain. I would say this to those who consider themselves smarter than us: teach us, and stop putting us down.
So I hope you stay here. Post your opinions and continue to support them with facts. If the time comes where the rules change and those who see reality in a different light are considered "gratuitous" (ie being without apparent reason, cause, or justification: a gratuitous insult according to Webster), then I will be right in line with you out the door.

[sdceltfan]

Pumpsie, all posts should be entered in a manner of respectfulness and tolerance. Although I felt many of your previous posts were harsh and even angry, I commend you in your most recent posts. I know your fire and Celtic loyalty are still there, as are mine.

[Pumpsie Green]

Pumpsie, all posts should be entered in a manner of respectfulness and tolerance. Although I felt many of your previous posts were harsh and even angry, I commend you in your most recent posts. I know your fire and Celtic loyalty are still there, as are mine.

Yup. I was out of line and I admitted it.
You need to stay here posting, if thats what you prefer to do.
On the Red Sox board there is liberal use of the word "pollyanna". Its just like here. A group of hard line optimists, and a group of the "not so optimistic". It makes for a GREAT discussion which is, at times, fiery. In the end, I think everyone realizes its just about a GAME; for entertainment purposes only. I think that it is people like you who make THIS board more interesting.

[Sam]

SD,

It's a sincere pleasure to have you posting on the board once again. I've never once thought of you as naive or lacking in knowledge, and it's difficult to conceive of remotely associating you with such terms.

I like to think of this as a board of diversity. I trust that members have been expressing positives and negatives pretty much as we see them during what has been a rather tumultuous time to be posting on a Celtics forum, to say nothing of operating one.

I occasionally notice people who post negative comments claiming there's some sort of agenda against negativity. I wonder how often they stop to wonder whether people just might happen to disagree with them because of sincere beliefs to the contrary.

There are also many positive posts with which people disagree. But I somehow never hear positive posters complain that there's an agenda against "positivity" when their views are challenged

I find that reactions to viewpoints of various posters sometimes differ accordingly to the credibility that has been built by a given poster. For example, a negative opinion expressed by a poster who has a proven history of objective insight could potentially be greeted differently than a negative opinion offered by someone who has consistently posted virtually nothing but negatives. To my knowledge, your track record for balanced opinions on this forum and BDC has been among the most exemplary. That would strongly suggest to me that someone who disagreed with your viewpoint would be doing so out of a sense of strong conviction rather than based on some agenda. It would be disrespectful for that person to be less than forthright in his or her responses to you...and it would certainly be nothing personal.

People on this forum have a right to disagree with positive opinions and negative opinions alike. On a forum where the common link between members is their love and support of a basketball team, it could well be that people want so much to believe in something they support that they therefore put negatives to sterner tests than positives. I guess that would be human nature.

In a similar vein, the same positive message issued over and over again might possibly be viewed as less redundant than the same negative message delivered over and over again. The very repetitiveness of a positive message might possibly be interpreted as uplifting, while the very repetitiveness of a negative message might possibly be interpreted as deliberately gloomy. Human nature at work again.

Such nuances do affect the perceived tone of a message board. I'm constantly receiving feedback from members about the tone of this forum, and the overwhelming majority is quite favorable. When there are problems, I usually find that private messages and emails lead to solutions much more quickly and satisfactorily than more public resolutions, but any feedback is welcome.

In response to a lot of recent pressure behind the scenes, I have had occasion to remind a number of people (at the risk of alienating some good personal friends) that simply posting negatively is not an offense, that posting intent seems more important, and that there is usually a way of handling conflict so that things work out. (I hope that is now occurring in regard to the recent matter in question.)

Once again, it's great to have a good friend posting again, and I hope you'll feel free to contact me personally whenever you wish.

All the best,

Sam

P.S. Please convey my best regards to your wife and tell her I think she has excellent instincts.

[112288]

Welcome back SD! I can appreciate your position and I am of the opinion that everyone can take away something positive from your post here and make this Forum even better. We could not have had this civil discussion on Boston.com as you would have been ripped to shreds!

112288

[MDCelticFan]

On BDC, Civil discussions often degenerated into borderline criminal charges! If you saw what was on my VISA & Master Card, WOW! Now that's what you'd call criminal charges (not the late Michael Jackson's "Smooth Criminal" either! (LOL)-MD!

[mrkleen09]

I haven't posted for the past few weeks because of the disappointment I had in its direction. I wanted to see where it was going. Of course, questions (in "positive" ways) are now being asked that I questioned 21/2 to 31/2 months ago and since. Course I got chastised for them.

I joined this board because I thought there would be much dissertation. Expected to see varying opinions and insights that would shed new light or "angles" that may have not been apparent. Disagreements, whether politically, socially, or sports oriented have the potential not only to be educational, but offer the possibility of broadening one's self and encouraging growth in a respectful and responsible manner. That unfortunately has not been my experience since December.

I feel there is a prevailing attitude on this board that requests and tolerates only positive messages. It started out relatively subtle, but in my opinion has become more blatant and disrespectful. We all can recall posts to substantiate that. Words such as "naiive", "lacking in basketball knowledge", "negative", and worse. That was not a "negative" poster sending those messages. That was "positive" poster(s) posting those words.

I don't need this board. I would like to continue posting. My wife mentioned the other day how much she feels I should continue. But I am more interested in a board where repectful opinions and insights are treated respectfully, even if they differ with majority assertions. I feel this board has moved closer to a pep club, rather than objective observers who don't feel a need to muffle their opinions.

This board has a great deal of potential to be relevant. I hope that potential is realized. I respect every poster ion this board, and would love nothing more than continue to be a part of it. Just feel the direction has changed.

Respectfully,
sdceltfan

SD

You can sign a post “respectfully” all day long, but if the breadth of that post is filled with condescending digs, and exclamations of I told you so and quotes like “I don’t need this board” – how can you expect people to take you seriously.

You are your own biggest fan, and you never miss an opportunity to pat yourself on the back….often at the expense of the team that many of us love. Stating an opinion is one thing, but it is almost as if you are happier if the team to fails so you can prove your point. Maybe you haven’t figured this out yet, but this kind of false bravado and putting people’s noses in it after the fact is not an endearing quality.

Lets use Haiti as an example of how you can be right in what you are saying, but completely wrong in how and when it is said.

Many people have said for years that the building standards there were a disgrace and a disaster waiting to happen. When the earthquake hit, clearly this lack of quality control and regulations were the number one reason the earthquake there had such catastrophic effects.

BUT, a few days after hundreds of thousand of people died is the WRONG TIME to show up and say “see I told you so” – that just shows a lack of tact. Same with much of what you say.

You have a added lots of valuable insight and pointed out legitimate concerns with the team. It is the way you have said it and rubbed peoples faces in it after the fact, that makes people less sympathetic to you.

[sinus007]

Hi sdceltfan,
I disagree with you. I think the direction this forum goes to stays more or less the same: share opinions about Boston Celtics, other teams/players of NBA and basketball in general. And since it's an exchange of opinions, people try to promote their own opinions and diminish opinions of others. It's natural. Sometimes it goes out of bounce. It's like basketball: you have court boundaries and rules and, if you go outside of those, comes Sam the zebra and blows the whistle. But if you play inside of both, sometimes you have to suck it up and play hard.
Also, look on the bright side - this forum vs BDC.

AK

[MDCelticFan]

This Forum: 100, BDC: 2-MD!

[bigpygme]

SD -
welcome back. hope you keep posting.
i understand your concern - don't entirely agree with it, though. my impression is that opinions of various stripes are welcome here, although their reception is based not just on what is said, but also on how it's said. similar to "the medium IS the message", how an opinion is couched will tell the tale in an important way.

also, it seems likely you agree that mocking, baiting, rants, and personally directed remarks (or attacks) don't belong here, and there was some of that going on not long ago. it seems to have stopped, and i am most grateful for that, because i think we strive to be colleagueal, cordial, and respectful iin what we say and how we say it - this in order to try to build what we couldn't find on BDC, with all the trolls goading and baiting.

short story - it's a young board, finding its way, and a decided improvement over our alternatives. i like staying plugged into the game and the team, and this board helps me do that when i read from ALL posters, including those who know much more than i or who might disagree with me.

Michael

[beat]

SD

Opinions are always welcome. a big however is that even if based on good info they are still just an opinion. ANd when one comes on thinking his is above the others and then proceeds to REMIND us what he said prior gives me a sour taste. Much like watching the C's recently.

This board is balanced and to say you don't need it makes me wonder a bit too. None of us NEED it but I know i'd be lost a bit without it.

In short IMHO just be honest and fair and open and all will be fine.

No need for hostilities or one upsmanship over anyone or my dad can beat up your dad type stuff.

We can disagree respectfully about things.

I do hope you continue to post, but that ultimately is up to you.

(from the not so snowy north)

beat

[LACELTFAN]

Sd- Like most of the rest of the responses here, I think you ought to continue on. Just the fact that you brought this out, is a good sign and a healthy thing on this site. In my own experience, I have posted the gambit from positive to negative, to puzzled, to just plain irrelevant...and haven't felt like there was any agenda to keep it one way or another.
Also, you can bet that you will get all kinds of responses- from people praising you as necessary to those telling you how inappropriate your criticisms are. All part of a good forum, I think. Stick around, this season may get very interesting down the stretch. LA CELT FAN

[Pumpsie Green]

SD

You can sign a post “respectfully” all day long, but if the breadth of that post is filled with condescending digs, and exclamations of I told you so and quotes like “I don’t need this board” – how can you expect people to take you seriously.

You are your own biggest fan, and you never miss an opportunity to pat yourself on the back….often at the expense of the team that many of us love. Stating an opinion is one thing, but it is almost as if you are happier if the team to fails so you can prove your point. Maybe you haven’t figured this out yet, but this kind of false bravado and putting people’s noses in it after the fact is not an endearing quality.

I could not disagree more with you MrKleen. I have found SD's insights as to what has gone wrong with this team to make for interesting reading. And when he pointed out that he noted signs of trouble long ago, I think it is perfectly relevant to post that fact here on certain threads. On the other hand, one could logically conclude that some of the content of YOUR most recent post borders on the personal ("you are your own biggest fan") and then proceeds to question SD's loyalty to the Celtics ("it is almost as if you are happier if the team to fails"). Its pretty safe to say that with the exception of a couple of wayward but welcome self admitted Lakers fans here, we are ALL Celtics fans.
Since SD in no way levied personnal attacks against you or anyone else here, it might be more conducive to the tenor of the board if everyone simply comments on the content of the posts we read rather than trying to decipher its intent.

[beat]

Pumpsie

Your worrying about attacts?

Yeah I know you appologized and all, just seems a bit strange.

beat

[Pumpsie Green]

Pumpsie

Your worrying about attacts?

Yeah I know you appologized and all, just seems a bit strange.

beat

Through all of that game thread I never once made a personnal attack that I initiated; if you doubt that, show it to me. Believe it or not, I do draw that line right there. That kind of stuff has no place on any board.

[jeb]

Pumpsie

It's the one thing (intent) that is very hard to type! Sometimes you are saying one thing and it gets understood entirely different from what you meant.

More than once I have hurt somebodies feelings without intending it and a couple of times I was trying to be an ass and it didnt come off. It is an interesting education in how to speak in a consise fashion.

The person reading cant see a facial expression or hear tone of voice.

Jeb

[beat]

Pumpsie

When the exchange got going and you type

LOOSER in big letters all by itself

Are we to know how it was directed?
Sure looked like an attack to someone from my view.
Just my opinion.

beat

[Pumpsie Green]

Pumpsie

When the exchange got going and you type

LOOSER in big letters all by itself

Are we to know how it was directed?
Sure looked like an attack to someone from my view.
Just my opinion.

beat

It was at the time, actually, not about anyone here. It was about the team playing like losers.
In any event, I think its time to move on past that, isn't it?

[beat]

Pumpsie

THAT i do agree with !!!

beat

[mrkleen09]

SD

You can sign a post “respectfully” all day long, but if the breadth of that post is filled with condescending digs, and exclamations of I told you so and quotes like “I don’t need this board” – how can you expect people to take you seriously.

You are your own biggest fan, and you never miss an opportunity to pat yourself on the back….often at the expense of the team that many of us love. Stating an opinion is one thing, but it is almost as if you are happier if the team to fails so you can prove your point. Maybe you haven’t figured this out yet, but this kind of false bravado and putting people’s noses in it after the fact is not an endearing quality.

I could not disagree more with you MrKleen. I have found SD's insights as to what has gone wrong with this team to make for interesting reading. And when he pointed out that he noted signs of trouble long ago, I think it is perfectly relevant to post that fact here on certain threads. On the other hand, one could logically conclude that some of the content of YOUR most recent post borders on the personal ("you are your own biggest fan") and then proceeds to question SD's loyalty to the Celtics ("it is almost as if you are happier if the team to fails"). Its pretty safe to say that with the exception of a couple of wayward but welcome self admitted Lakers fans here, we are ALL Celtics fans.
Since SD in no way levied personnal attacks against you or anyone else here, it might be more conducive to the tenor of the board if everyone simply comments on the content of the posts we read rather than trying to decipher its intent.

Pumpsie....how did I figure it would be you that came to the aid of SD....how does that birds of a feather saying go?

I dont know SD personally, so I can comment on what he is like. I can only comment on his posts and NO this is NOT THE FIRST TIME he has tried to play the innocent bystander role, while throwing in an underhanded, passive aggressive insult in the same breathe.

It is one thing to say "I am sorry to say that my fears from a few months ago are coming to fruition" - it is another thing entirely to say "See I Told You So....I Was Right And You Were Wrong" - if you dont see the distinction, I dont know what to tell you.

[Pumpsie Green]

MrKleen, I didn't see any language in SD's post that could be construed as personal in nature. I interpreted it at face value: that the problems with the team were accurately pointed out months ago by him. As I recall, the post also made mention that he felt disparaged because of his position (I could be wrong about that).
When I read a post that has content that I do not agree with I reply to it based on the content itself, in this case, was he right or wrong about what was written, are the problems he identified legitimate observations-or I just let it slide without taking it on a personal level. Of course, you are free to handle this any way you want. I'm just saying that it does not seem like he attacked you or me or anyone else here.
I also happen to agree with what he wrote back then.

[Sam]

MrKleen,

He doesn't need my endorsement because he can certainly speak for himself, but SD (the South Dakota one...we also have one from San Diego) is a fine person and a loyal Celtics fan. We haven't always agreed with one another over the past year, but I would never question his motives.

It would certainly be nice if, as I suggested a day or two, some of this stuff could be put behind us and we could all turn some of this combative energy into positive energy in support of the Celtics.

Sam

[Jerry Tarkanian]

It would certainly be nice if, as I suggested a day or two, some of this stuff could be put behind us and we could all turn some of this combative energy into positive energy in support of the Celtics.

Sam

I agree.......what we have now is what we will have, and we need to support it, propose positive changes and promote success.

Next year does offer challenges, but if we hope to attract young talent at minimum salary and a quality MLE we DO need to appear to have something to build on.

So 'GO C's" ! As likely they regroup than any other theory offered.

This is our best chance for a couple years so let's root 'em on !

Tark

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