Evan More, or a Little Less?
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Evan More, or a Little Less?
http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/13125-evan-more-or-a-little-less
Evan More, or a Little Less?
Written by Nicholas S'cento
Evan More, or a Little Less?
Much has been made of swingman Evan Turner's role on this season's muddled Boston Celtics roster.
Much has been made of swingman Evan Turner's role on this season's muddled Boston
Celtics roster. A polarizing player even before his signing by the Celtics two offseasons
ago, many fans have grown to appreciate Turner's versatile skillset and his ability to play
three positions, including running the point in the half-court game while filling up stat
sheets with assists and rebounds both off the bench and as a starter (Turner's current
season averages are 9.1 points, 4.5 rebounds, 3.9 assists and one steal in 27 minutes per
game). Detractors, however, despise his patience in the half-court game, accusing him of
"ball-pounding" and holding onto the ball too long while looking for the perfect pass.
They (justifiably) set their hair on fire every time Turner launches a shot from downtown
where he averages a horrifying 15.5% on threes.
There have been any number of statistical dissections of this constantly changing Celtics
rotation, including specific analyses of the impact Evan Turner has had on the team, but
an intriguing set of statistics gauging the impact of Turner's playing time on the success
(and failures) of the Boston Celtics recently caught my eye in a social media discussion
group. The statistics purported to measure the impact of the number of minutes Turner
plays per game on total team wins and losses, claiming the more minutes Turner plays,
the worse the Celtics play, and point to the team's better overall winning percentage when
Turner plays fewer minutes.
However raw wins and losses only tell half the story; the other half, obviously, is WHO
the wins and losses were against.
While the original statistical analysis featured slightly more depth in comparing multiple
increments of playing time, the median increment was 24 minutes (two quarters) of game
time played, so we'll use that as the baseline for this analysis for the sake of brevity.
According to statistics from basketball-reference.com, the Celtics are 8-5 (.615) when
Evan Turner plays FEWER than 24 minutes a game compared to 14-14 (.500) when he
plays 24 minutes or more. On their face the statistics support the claim that the Celtics'
winning percentage is in fact better when Turner plays fewer than 24 minutes. But does
less Evan really equal more quality play?
Let's look at the other half of the equation: who these wins and losses were against.
In the 13 games in which Evan Turner played FEWER than 24 minutes, the Celtics had
wins over PHI, HOU, WAS, NOP, MIN, CHO, DET, IND and losses to SAS, IND, DAL,
ORL, MEM.
In the 28 games in which Turner played MORE than 24 minutes, the Celtics had wins
over WAS, MIL, ATL, OKC, BKN (x2), PHI, MIA, SAC, CHI, CHO, NYK, PHX, WAS
and losses to TOR, IND, BKN (x2), ATL (x2), SAS, GSW, NYK, CHI, DET, LAL,
DET, CLE.
Even a brief glance at these lists should provide a hint as to why the opponents and their
records are so important. The eight teams the Celtics defeated with "Less Evan" on the
court (<24 min.) had a combined record of 92-190 (.326), with the biggest win coming
over current Eastern Conference 6th seed Indiana (22-18). The five losses came to teams
with a combined record of 123-80 (.605), including a loss to Western Conference
powerhouse San Antonio.
By comparison, the 14 teams the Celtics defeated with "More Evan" (24 min. +) had a
record of 220-289 (.432), with their biggest wins coming over the current #3 seeds in
each conference: Chicago (23-16) and Oklahoma City (29-12). Their losses came to
teams with a combined 278-189 (.595) record, including San Antonio (35-6) and an
overtime thriller to a record-breaking Golden State Warriors (37-4) team that, at the time,
hadn't lost a game all season.
As is evident by a deeper look at the record, simple Win/Loss counts don't tell the whole
story. The Celtics may have a better record with "Less Turner," but those wins came
against extremely bad opponents. By contrast, the wins achieved with "More Turner"
came against opponents with much stronger records. The losses, however, came against
opponents with virtually identical winning percentages.
What can Celtics fans glean from this comparison between games with "More" or "Less"
Turner? For one, it seems Coach Brad Stevens still prefers to rely on "More Turner"
when playing higher quality opponents, and that reliance has resulted in the Celtics'
biggest wins of the season. The hard push, frenetic, run-and-gun style of basketball the
Celtics play with Isaiah Thomas starting at point is effective for a young team with no
bonafide superstars to jump to early leads against most teams during the regular season,
but when the game slows down against elite teams heading into the playoffs, Turner's
half-court ball handling and passing becomes more critical to the team's success. We saw
this during the second half of last season during the Celtics' frantic playoff push where
Turner was the primary ball handler in the starting lineup. We've also seen it this season
as well. At points when the rest of the team seemed lost in the half-court game, failing to
move the ball or move without the ball, hurling rushed and/or contested perimeter shots,
Evan Turner kept the team in the game by driving to the hole at will, scoring easy buckets
and drawing fouls.
Most importantly, as fans we should understand that the team's successes and failures
can't simply be placed on the shoulders of one or two players. Basketball is a team game,
and as this emerging young Celtics team finds itself battling for a playoff spot down the
stretch, the versatility of Turner's game combined with his ability to fill whatever role
Coach Stevens asks of him on any given night (and there have been many, from ball-
handling starter to off-ball second unit wing) gives this team the ability to adapt, adjust,
and compensate for the deficiencies in the games of the Celtics' talented yet oftentimes
incomplete young players as they continue to learn and develop.
Evaluating individual players is never as easy as looking at raw wins and losses and
attributing them to the amount of playing time those individual players received during
those games. It also requires looking at the opponents and, even deeper, the matchups and
game planning orchestrated by Coach Stevens. Evan Turner can score in bunches when
given the green light, but he is not going to be asked or expected to score the bulk of the
team's points on any given night. He's simply going to be asked to facilitate, to fill a role,
one that changes depending on opponents and matchups.
Turner is certainly not a perfect player, but he has been the player Coach Stevens has
asked him to be since he arrived in Boston, and the Win/Loss column is more a reflection
of Stevens' adjustments and game-planning to specific matchups than the amount of any
one individual's playing time.
The question shouldn't be "Evan more or a little less?" It should be what did coach ask
his players to do each game, and when it comes adapting to the complex game-planning
and shuffling rotations of a coach like Brad Stevens, few players have the versatility to
get it done like the NBA's "Mr. Average."
bob
.
Evan More, or a Little Less?
Written by Nicholas S'cento
Evan More, or a Little Less?
Much has been made of swingman Evan Turner's role on this season's muddled Boston Celtics roster.
Much has been made of swingman Evan Turner's role on this season's muddled Boston
Celtics roster. A polarizing player even before his signing by the Celtics two offseasons
ago, many fans have grown to appreciate Turner's versatile skillset and his ability to play
three positions, including running the point in the half-court game while filling up stat
sheets with assists and rebounds both off the bench and as a starter (Turner's current
season averages are 9.1 points, 4.5 rebounds, 3.9 assists and one steal in 27 minutes per
game). Detractors, however, despise his patience in the half-court game, accusing him of
"ball-pounding" and holding onto the ball too long while looking for the perfect pass.
They (justifiably) set their hair on fire every time Turner launches a shot from downtown
where he averages a horrifying 15.5% on threes.
There have been any number of statistical dissections of this constantly changing Celtics
rotation, including specific analyses of the impact Evan Turner has had on the team, but
an intriguing set of statistics gauging the impact of Turner's playing time on the success
(and failures) of the Boston Celtics recently caught my eye in a social media discussion
group. The statistics purported to measure the impact of the number of minutes Turner
plays per game on total team wins and losses, claiming the more minutes Turner plays,
the worse the Celtics play, and point to the team's better overall winning percentage when
Turner plays fewer minutes.
However raw wins and losses only tell half the story; the other half, obviously, is WHO
the wins and losses were against.
While the original statistical analysis featured slightly more depth in comparing multiple
increments of playing time, the median increment was 24 minutes (two quarters) of game
time played, so we'll use that as the baseline for this analysis for the sake of brevity.
According to statistics from basketball-reference.com, the Celtics are 8-5 (.615) when
Evan Turner plays FEWER than 24 minutes a game compared to 14-14 (.500) when he
plays 24 minutes or more. On their face the statistics support the claim that the Celtics'
winning percentage is in fact better when Turner plays fewer than 24 minutes. But does
less Evan really equal more quality play?
Let's look at the other half of the equation: who these wins and losses were against.
In the 13 games in which Evan Turner played FEWER than 24 minutes, the Celtics had
wins over PHI, HOU, WAS, NOP, MIN, CHO, DET, IND and losses to SAS, IND, DAL,
ORL, MEM.
In the 28 games in which Turner played MORE than 24 minutes, the Celtics had wins
over WAS, MIL, ATL, OKC, BKN (x2), PHI, MIA, SAC, CHI, CHO, NYK, PHX, WAS
and losses to TOR, IND, BKN (x2), ATL (x2), SAS, GSW, NYK, CHI, DET, LAL,
DET, CLE.
Even a brief glance at these lists should provide a hint as to why the opponents and their
records are so important. The eight teams the Celtics defeated with "Less Evan" on the
court (<24 min.) had a combined record of 92-190 (.326), with the biggest win coming
over current Eastern Conference 6th seed Indiana (22-18). The five losses came to teams
with a combined record of 123-80 (.605), including a loss to Western Conference
powerhouse San Antonio.
By comparison, the 14 teams the Celtics defeated with "More Evan" (24 min. +) had a
record of 220-289 (.432), with their biggest wins coming over the current #3 seeds in
each conference: Chicago (23-16) and Oklahoma City (29-12). Their losses came to
teams with a combined 278-189 (.595) record, including San Antonio (35-6) and an
overtime thriller to a record-breaking Golden State Warriors (37-4) team that, at the time,
hadn't lost a game all season.
As is evident by a deeper look at the record, simple Win/Loss counts don't tell the whole
story. The Celtics may have a better record with "Less Turner," but those wins came
against extremely bad opponents. By contrast, the wins achieved with "More Turner"
came against opponents with much stronger records. The losses, however, came against
opponents with virtually identical winning percentages.
What can Celtics fans glean from this comparison between games with "More" or "Less"
Turner? For one, it seems Coach Brad Stevens still prefers to rely on "More Turner"
when playing higher quality opponents, and that reliance has resulted in the Celtics'
biggest wins of the season. The hard push, frenetic, run-and-gun style of basketball the
Celtics play with Isaiah Thomas starting at point is effective for a young team with no
bonafide superstars to jump to early leads against most teams during the regular season,
but when the game slows down against elite teams heading into the playoffs, Turner's
half-court ball handling and passing becomes more critical to the team's success. We saw
this during the second half of last season during the Celtics' frantic playoff push where
Turner was the primary ball handler in the starting lineup. We've also seen it this season
as well. At points when the rest of the team seemed lost in the half-court game, failing to
move the ball or move without the ball, hurling rushed and/or contested perimeter shots,
Evan Turner kept the team in the game by driving to the hole at will, scoring easy buckets
and drawing fouls.
Most importantly, as fans we should understand that the team's successes and failures
can't simply be placed on the shoulders of one or two players. Basketball is a team game,
and as this emerging young Celtics team finds itself battling for a playoff spot down the
stretch, the versatility of Turner's game combined with his ability to fill whatever role
Coach Stevens asks of him on any given night (and there have been many, from ball-
handling starter to off-ball second unit wing) gives this team the ability to adapt, adjust,
and compensate for the deficiencies in the games of the Celtics' talented yet oftentimes
incomplete young players as they continue to learn and develop.
Evaluating individual players is never as easy as looking at raw wins and losses and
attributing them to the amount of playing time those individual players received during
those games. It also requires looking at the opponents and, even deeper, the matchups and
game planning orchestrated by Coach Stevens. Evan Turner can score in bunches when
given the green light, but he is not going to be asked or expected to score the bulk of the
team's points on any given night. He's simply going to be asked to facilitate, to fill a role,
one that changes depending on opponents and matchups.
Turner is certainly not a perfect player, but he has been the player Coach Stevens has
asked him to be since he arrived in Boston, and the Win/Loss column is more a reflection
of Stevens' adjustments and game-planning to specific matchups than the amount of any
one individual's playing time.
The question shouldn't be "Evan more or a little less?" It should be what did coach ask
his players to do each game, and when it comes adapting to the complex game-planning
and shuffling rotations of a coach like Brad Stevens, few players have the versatility to
get it done like the NBA's "Mr. Average."
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 61561
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Evan More, or a Little Less?
I like Turner when taking an overall view of his skills and his contributions. He always plays hard, has improved very much on defense since arriving, has not complained about being a substitute player, and exhibits pretty good composure in close games.
If there is one thing that bothers me (and probably everyone else as well) is why does he shoot any three point shots even if left wide open when he misses so many?
I think that if I were the head coach, Turner would have a "make the first, you can shoot another" shooting cap on his threes. Then if he made one and missed the next one the rule would go right back to "make one, you can shoot another" all over again. This would do a lot to either keep his three point attempts down or (better still) make a much better percentage. No way could he end any game with 1 for 5 (or more) or 0 for 3 or 0 for 4 three point stat line with this theory. Pretty basic, if you are hot tonight you can keep shooting and if you are not hot tonight either drive to the hoop or pass the ball rather than keep shooting threes and missing them.
If there is one thing that bothers me (and probably everyone else as well) is why does he shoot any three point shots even if left wide open when he misses so many?
I think that if I were the head coach, Turner would have a "make the first, you can shoot another" shooting cap on his threes. Then if he made one and missed the next one the rule would go right back to "make one, you can shoot another" all over again. This would do a lot to either keep his three point attempts down or (better still) make a much better percentage. No way could he end any game with 1 for 5 (or more) or 0 for 3 or 0 for 4 three point stat line with this theory. Pretty basic, if you are hot tonight you can keep shooting and if you are not hot tonight either drive to the hoop or pass the ball rather than keep shooting threes and missing them.
wideclyde- Posts : 2390
Join date : 2015-12-14
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