Re: Draft Workout Thread

[tjmakz]

"I'm worried about playing against Paul George, Kevin Durant and LeBron James next season.

Translation: I'm going to force my way to playing small forward because I don't want to get beat up every night at PF.

Out of the praise that Chad Ford wrote about Simmons, that's what you got out of it?
If Simmons drafted by many teams including Philly, LA and Boston, his main position will be SF.
He will be a point forward in the NBA.

[bobheckler]

"I'm worried about playing against Paul George, Kevin Durant and LeBron James next season.

Translation: I'm going to force my way to playing small forward because I don't want to get beat up every night at PF.

arambone,

I think you got that backwards. If he's trying to avoid playing those guys he better play PF, because they are SFs.



bob


.

[bobheckler]

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/misc-060816-Draft-Workout-Murray-Puts-on-Shooting-Clinic/



Draft Workout: Murray Puts on a Shooting Clinic

Posted: Jun 08, 2016



By Taylor C. Snow |  @taylorcsnow
Celtics.com


June 8, 2016



WALTHAM, Mass. – The Boston Celtics are in need of obtaining a quality sharpshooter this offseason, and 19-year-old NBA-hopeful Jamal Murray thinks he would be a great fit for the role.

Not only does he believe that notion, but he also may have proved it Wednesday afternoon during his draft workout at the C’s training facility in Waltham, Mass.

The 6-foot-4 combo guard put on a 3-point clinic unlike that of any prospect who has stepped foot in the Celtics’ practice gym. He informed reporters that despite a “slow start,” to the 3-point drill, he made 79 out of 100 long-range attempts, which broke Kyle Wiltjer’s standing record of 77.

Murray, a native of Ontario, Canada, established himself as one of the most feared collegiate shooters in the nation this past season while at the University of Kentucky. He shot 113-for-277 from beyond the arc and is confident that his long-range game will translate to the NBA without a problem.

“I believe I can score on anybody,” Murray stated assuredly after the conclusion of his workout.

He’s carried that mentality with him wherever he has gone, and so far it’s held true.

When Murray committed to Kentucky last year, it was unclear what his role would be with the Wildcats considering the program’s stacked talent pool, particularly at the guard positions.

In order to earn a regular spot in the rotation, Murray transitioned from point guard to shooting guard. He ended up leading the team in scoring (20.0 PPG) and made the most field goals (244) in the SEC.

“At the college level I got better at playing the 2,” said Murray, who’s been projected as a top-10 pick in virtually every mock draft. “I got a better feel for coming off screens and finding my space, finding my rhythm.

“Before I was a natural point guard, so I kind of have a mixed game … Whether I’m a 1 or a 2, I can play the position and read the defense.”

One potential dilemma here is that Boston is very deep at the guard spots. Murray doesn’t see that as an obstacle, however; instead he believes that playing among so many defensive-minded guards would enhance his game.

“It’s only going to make me better, going up against guys like Avery Bradley, Isaiah Thomas, Marcus Smart…” he said. “All those guys are physical and could help me out offensively.”

Another factor that stands out, aside from Murray’s scoring, is his competitive nature, which he credits to his father. He said he and his dad used to compete in just about any activity, “Whether it was first one to eat a certain amount of wings, running to the door… we were competitive about everything, and I always wanted to have that edge.”

Murray’s father also got him involved in meditation at a young age. He incorporates a 40-minute mediation into his pre-game and pre-practice routine, which he says allows him to block out all pressure and head into every contest with a clear mind.

Ultimately, he believes that extreme level of focus will aid him in making an immediate impact at the NBA level, and he hopes that teams recognize his discipline and competitiveness when considering him on Draft Night.

“It’s something that I’ve been working for,” said Murray. “It’s something I’ve been sacrificing my whole life to and put a whole lot of dedication to, so it’s a big moment, a big stage. It’s something I’m ready for and something I’m looking forward to.”

And if Boston ends up calling his name on June 23, he says he’ll fit in just fine with the C’s.

“They’re guys that can play basketball with the size they have,” said Murray. “They can guard multiple positions, they can bang down low, they can rebound… kind of a little bit of everything. And I kind of see myself fitting for a team like that.”


bob


.

[arambone]

[arambone]

"I'm worried about playing against Paul George, Kevin Durant and LeBron James next season.

Translation: I'm going to force my way to playing small forward because I don't want to get beat up every night at PF.

arambone,

I think you got that backwards.  If he's trying to avoid playing those guys he better play PF, because they are SFs.



bob


.

Bob, Simmons would rather guard those guys on the perimeter than than deal with the pushing and shoving and elbows inside.

A 6'10 small forward (by choice) with poor defense in space and no jump shot outside of 7 feet.

A taller Evan Turner, is what he is.

[arambone]

"I'm worried about playing against Paul George, Kevin Durant and LeBron James next season.

Translation: I'm going to force my way to playing small forward because I don't want to get beat up every night at PF.

Out of the praise that Chad Ford wrote about Simmons, that's what you got out of it?
If Simmons drafted by many teams including Philly, LA and Boston, his main position will be SF.
He will be a point forward in the NBA.

Chad Ford watched him work out for one day, but gushed excessively about Simmons work ethic over 2-3 months.

Ford was only there one day. Of course Simmons is going to try to present himself as living in the gym.

And yes, Simmons very strongly suggested he sees himself as a small forward rather than a power forward.

The only way Simmons is going to be truly great is by playing PF and completely embracing the physicality. At SF he's just a taller Evan Turner. Just what PHI needs.

[tjmakz]

"I'm worried about playing against Paul George, Kevin Durant and LeBron James next season.

Translation: I'm going to force my way to playing small forward because I don't want to get beat up every night at PF.

Out of the praise that Chad Ford wrote about Simmons, that's what you got out of it?
If Simmons drafted by many teams including Philly, LA and Boston, his main position will be SF.
He will be a point forward in the NBA.

Chad Ford watched him work out for one day, but gushed excessively about Simmons work ethic over 2-3 months.

Ford was only there one day. Of course Simmons is going to try to present himself as living in the gym.

And yes, Simmons very strongly suggested he sees himself as a small forward rather than a power forward.

The only way Simmons is going to be truly great is by playing PF and completely embracing the physicality. At SF he's just a taller Evan Turner. Just what PHI needs.

Your comments are getting to the point of being hard to read.
You post about Thon Maker as a future hall of famer and then say Simmons is a bigger Evan Turner.

For a guy who is 6'10" 240 lbs, Simmons is incredibly fast, strong, explosive, has incredible vision and top tier rebounding and play making abilities.
Simmons floor might be Lamar Odom, not Evan Turner.

So, if Boston had the #2 pick and only Ingram was taken, who would you want Boston to draft?

[tjmakz]

Positions won't matter to Simmons.
The NBA is more than ever a position less game.
I doubt many power forwards, in fact probably none will have the ability to guard Simmons.
Do you want Sullinger or Olynyk trying to guard Simmons?
That would be a sight....

[arambone]

"I'm worried about playing against Paul George, Kevin Durant and LeBron James next season.

Translation: I'm going to force my way to playing small forward because I don't want to get beat up every night at PF.

Out of the praise that Chad Ford wrote about Simmons, that's what you got out of it?
If Simmons drafted by many teams including Philly, LA and Boston, his main position will be SF.
He will be a point forward in the NBA.

Chad Ford watched him work out for one day, but gushed excessively about Simmons work ethic over 2-3 months.

Ford was only there one day. Of course Simmons is going to try to present himself as living in the gym.

And yes, Simmons very strongly suggested he sees himself as a small forward rather than a power forward.

The only way Simmons is going to be truly great is by playing PF and completely embracing the physicality. At SF he's just a taller Evan Turner. Just what PHI needs.

Your comments are getting to the point of being hard to read.
You post about Thon Maker as a future hall of famer and then say Simmons is a bigger Evan Turner.

For a guy who is 6'10" 240 lbs, Simmons is incredibly fast, strong, explosive, has incredible vision and top tier rebounding and play making abilities.
Simmons floor might be Lamar Odom, not Evan Turner.

So, if Boston had the #2 pick and only Ingram was taken, who would you want Boston to draft?

If my comments are getting hard to read, don't respond to my comments.

You take the talking heads' opinions as the gospel truth, and act like anything else is completely impossible.

Like I said, don't respond to my comments, as I find yours completely unoriginal but had just enough courtesy not to say it.

[arambone]

Position didn't matter to Anthony Bennett, Derick Williams, and Julius Randle either.

As if all that matters is what matters to Ben Simmons.

[tjmakz]

Position didn't matter to Anthony Bennett, Derick Williams, and Julius Randle either.

As if all that matters is what matters to Ben Simmons.

Simmons can play 3 positions.

Anthony Bennett 1. Terribly.
Williams was mostly a PF. Played some SF.
Randle is a PF.
What's your point in bringing them up?

[tjmakz]

"I'm worried about playing against Paul George, Kevin Durant and LeBron James next season.

Translation: I'm going to force my way to playing small forward because I don't want to get beat up every night at PF.

Out of the praise that Chad Ford wrote about Simmons, that's what you got out of it?
If Simmons drafted by many teams including Philly, LA and Boston, his main position will be SF.
He will be a point forward in the NBA.

Chad Ford watched him work out for one day, but gushed excessively about Simmons work ethic over 2-3 months.

Ford was only there one day. Of course Simmons is going to try to present himself as living in the gym.

And yes, Simmons very strongly suggested he sees himself as a small forward rather than a power forward.

The only way Simmons is going to be truly great is by playing PF and completely embracing the physicality. At SF he's just a taller Evan Turner. Just what PHI needs.

Your comments are getting to the point of being hard to read.
You post about Thon Maker as a future hall of famer and then say Simmons is a bigger Evan Turner.

For a guy who is 6'10" 240 lbs, Simmons is incredibly fast, strong, explosive, has incredible vision and top tier rebounding and play making abilities.
Simmons floor might be Lamar Odom, not Evan Turner.

So, if Boston had the #2 pick and only Ingram was taken, who would you want Boston to draft?

If my comments are getting hard to read, don't respond to my comments.

You take the talking heads' opinions as the gospel truth, and act like anything else is completely impossible.

Like I said, don't respond to my comments, as I find yours completely unoriginal but had just enough courtesy not to say it.

From watching games and videos I form my own opinion about players.
Simmons has incredible talent.
I don't need Chad Ford or Draftexpress or anyone to tell me that.

So, who would be your pick for Boston if Ingram was off the board and Boston had the #2 pick?

[arambone]

Like I said, don't respond to my comments, as I find yours completely unoriginal but had just enough courtesy not to say it.

[arambone]

@Scott_Souza 31m31 minutes ago
Thon Maker indicated he was at the #Celtics practice facility getting up shots last night & Danny Ainge was on floor watching him. #NBADraft

[tjmakz]

You seem to be here to say outlandish things and make crazy predictions for attention.

I would rather have reasonable discussions with people who care about and who are interested in the NBA.

[swish]

You seem to be here to say outlandish things and make crazy predictions for attention.

I would rather have reasonable discussions with people who care about and who are interested in the NBA.

I'll second that!

swish

[arambone]

You seem to be here to say outlandish things and make crazy predictions for attention.

I would rather have reasonable discussions with people who care about and who are interested in the NBA.

 I'll second that!

  swish

What never occurred to you and your Laker buddy is that college teams started figuring out how to guard Simmons toward the end of the year. They just put a smaller, more athletic defender on him, had him sag off Simmons and dare him to shoot, and Simmons ended up going into his shell and just passing the ball off rather than shoot the jumper.


That's right, teams started defending Simmons like the NBA teams figured out how to defend Rondo.

Simmons doesn't have a quickness or athletic advantage at SF in the NBA. That's why he needed to play PF in the NBA and embrace the physicality.

Not only will opposing SFs sag off of Simmons and leave him with only jump shots, but when Simmons doesn't have the ball in his hands and is hanging around the perimeter, teams will just stop defending him out there, and Simmons' team will be playing 4 on 5.

Just like how Rondo without the ball on the perimeter was a major liability and allowed the other team to swarm Rondo's teammates.


Outlandish, eh?

[tjmakz]

Simmons game was exactly the same from the start to the end of the season.
Simmons will have a significant athletic advantage over most who have to guard him.
But, that is the cherry on top.
His ball handling abilities and size at that position make him the #1 prospect in this draft.

It's easy to bash players.
We could come up with negatives for any player.
Simmons - Not a plus shooter
Ingram - Rail thin, not explosive
Murray - not big or very athletic for a sg
Bender - toughness
Hield - one dimensional, 3 years older than most prospects
Brown - very poor shooter

I see that you won't answer the question about who should choose.
That's weak to bash Simmons, then not say who Boston should draft if Ingram was taken and Simmons was on the board with Boston picking.

[arambone]

Boston is about the only team Simmons would be a good fit on, because most/all of our PFs and Cs can stretch the floor.

But I'd still take Murray, Maker, or Poeltl over Simmons at #2.

I hope Simmons drops to 2 and your Lakers grab him.

Your defense and floor spacing would be even more fun to watch.

[tjmakz]

Boston is about the only team Simmons would be a good fit on, because most/all of our PFs and Cs can stretch the floor.

But I'd still take Murray, Maker, or Poeltl over Simmons at #2.

I hope Simmons drops to 2 and your Lakers grab him.

Your defense and floor spacing would be even more fun to watch.

Philly, LA and Boston shouldn't take or not take Simmons only because of who is on the current roster.
Philly and LA are still building their teams.
Boston is ahead, but it's very realistic for Boston's two floor stretching big men (Sullinger and Olynyk) to be on other teams next year.
Not drafting Simmons because of who is on the current roster is short sighted thinking.

If Ingram is taken by Philly, Simmons will definitely go #2.
Simmons is a play making forward.
The Lakers are in a similar position to Boston.
They don't want to draft a guard or PF.
Drafting Maker or Poeltl at #2 is foolish.
If you want Maker, move down 5, 10 or 15 spots and draft him there.

The Lakers defense last year was terrible, I agree.
I have said this before that I used to watch the Lakers last year and say to myself: What is Byron trying to do here?
Byron Scott had 3 jobs to do last year.
1-Play the young guys
2-have a successful Kobe retirement tour
3-keep the draft pick
All of those things worked out quite well.

What happened last year will have little to do with this season for the Lakers with Byron, Kobe and Hibbert gone.

[arambone]

You're not worried about Simmons' defense in the same way you're not worried about Russell, Randle, and Clarkson's defense.

And your Jim Buss Lakers passed on Porzingis and Myles Turner last year because of Randle, but you want to double down and not draft a PF again this year because you already have Randle.

What you don't realize is that the only way Randle will play on a winning team is as a back up, in the Brandon Bass mold.

You think Scott was the whole problem with your defense last year, and you think adding Ben Simmons' defense at SF to go with Clarkson's defense at PG, Russell's defense at SG, and Randle's defense at PF is somehow a good idea.

You don't value defense, just like draft express and a lot of the other mock draft "experts".

Obviously Jim Buss doesn't either.

[tjmakz]

You're not worried about Simmons' defense in the same way you're not worried about Russell, Randle, and Clarkson's defense.

And your Jim Buss Lakers passed on Porzingis and Myles Turner last year because of Randle, but you want to double down and not draft a PF again this year because you already have Randle.

What you don't realize is that the only way Randle will play on a winning team is as a back up, in the Brandon Bass mold.

You think Scott was the whole problem with your defense last year, and you think adding Ben Simmons' defense at SF to go with Clarkson's defense at PG, Russell's defense at SG, and Randle's defense at PF is somehow a good idea.

You don't value defense, just like draft express and a lot of the other mock draft "experts".

Obviously Jim Buss doesn't either.

Why would I worry about Simmons defense?
He has unbelievable skills that are rarely seen.
Yes, the Lakers passed up on Porzingis who is not a good defensive player for being 7'3".
The Lakers really liked Porzingis game.
Due to the guard/wing oriented league that is successful now, the Lakers chose the best play making guard in the draft in Russell.

How do you state as a fact that Randle will be a back up on a winning team?

You value defense and you want a 7'1" 209 pound guy who can't guard 3's, 4's or 5's?

It's hard for us to analyze defense.
You generally won't find videos on youtube or ESPN of players in the draft playing defense.
Teams have scouts who watch and go to college and International games.
They almost unanimously are ranking Simmons #1 and Maker late in the 1st round.
So, are you saying the NBA teams scouts and management are all wrong and you are right?

[swish]

You seem to be here to say outlandish things and make crazy predictions for attention.

I would rather have reasonable discussions with people who care about and who are interested in the NBA.

 I'll second that!

  swish

What never occurred to you and your Laker buddy is that college teams started figuring out how to guard Simmons toward the end of the year. They just put a smaller, more athletic defender on him, had him sag off Simmons and dare him to shoot, and Simmons ended up going into his shell and just passing the ball off rather than shoot the jumper.


That's right, teams started defending Simmons like the NBA teams figured out how to defend Rondo.

Simmons doesn't have a quickness or athletic advantage at SF in the NBA. That's why he needed to play PF in the NBA and embrace the physicality.

Not only will opposing SFs sag off of Simmons and leave him with only jump shots, but when Simmons doesn't have the ball in his hands and is hanging around the perimeter, teams will just stop defending him out there, and Simmons' team will be playing 4 on 5.

Just like how Rondo without the ball on the perimeter was a major liability and allowed the other team to swarm Rondo's teammates.


Outlandish, eh?

Even though I've been following the nba since 1948 I am totaly aware of the fact that I don't have the credentials to consider myself a draft Guru and refrain from voicing opinions about future nba draft selections. I'll just sit back and wait to see how the leagues professionals evaluate the talent on draft day. But it would be nice to see your complete prediction for this upcoming draft to see how, over the next few years, your selections pan out against the leagues General Mangers picks. If you ace this test I'll be the first to proclaim you an NBA DRAFT GURU.

swish

[arambone]

You seem to be here to say outlandish things and make crazy predictions for attention.

I would rather have reasonable discussions with people who care about and who are interested in the NBA.

 I'll second that!

  swish

What never occurred to you and your Laker buddy is that college teams started figuring out how to guard Simmons toward the end of the year. They just put a smaller, more athletic defender on him, had him sag off Simmons and dare him to shoot, and Simmons ended up going into his shell and just passing the ball off rather than shoot the jumper.


That's right, teams started defending Simmons like the NBA teams figured out how to defend Rondo.

Simmons doesn't have a quickness or athletic advantage at SF in the NBA. That's why he needed to play PF in the NBA and embrace the physicality.

Not only will opposing SFs sag off of Simmons and leave him with only jump shots, but when Simmons doesn't have the ball in his hands and is hanging around the perimeter, teams will just stop defending him out there, and Simmons' team will be playing 4 on 5.

Just like how Rondo without the ball on the perimeter was a major liability and allowed the other team to swarm Rondo's teammates.


Outlandish, eh?

Even though I've been following the nba since 1948 I am totaly aware of the fact that I don't have the credentials to consider myself a draft Guru and refrain from voicing opinions about future nba draft selections. I'll just sit back and wait to see how the leagues professionals evaluate the talent on draft day. But it would be nice to see your complete prediction for this upcoming draft to see how, over the next few years, your selections pan out against the leagues General Mangers picks. If you ace this test I'll be the first to proclaim you an NBA DRAFT GURU.

 swish

"If you ace this test I'll be the first to proclaim you an NBA DRAFT GURU."

Or you could just continue suggesting I don't know or love basketball.

[arambone]

You're not worried about Simmons' defense in the same way you're not worried about Russell, Randle, and Clarkson's defense.

And your Jim Buss Lakers passed on Porzingis and Myles Turner last year because of Randle, but you want to double down and not draft a PF again this year because you already have Randle.

What you don't realize is that the only way Randle will play on a winning team is as a back up, in the Brandon Bass mold.

You think Scott was the whole problem with your defense last year, and you think adding Ben Simmons' defense at SF to go with Clarkson's defense at PG, Russell's defense at SG, and Randle's defense at PF is somehow a good idea.

You don't value defense, just like draft express and a lot of the other mock draft "experts".

Obviously Jim Buss doesn't either.

Why would I worry about Simmons defense?
He has unbelievable skills that are rarely seen.
Yes, the Lakers passed up on Porzingis who is not a good defensive player for being 7'3".
The Lakers really liked Porzingis game.
Due to the guard/wing oriented league that is successful now, the Lakers chose the best play making guard in the draft in Russell.

How do you state as a fact that Randle will be a back up on a winning team?

You value defense and you want a 7'1" 209 pound guy who can't guard 3's, 4's or 5's?

It's hard for us to analyze defense.
You generally won't find videos on youtube or ESPN of players in the draft playing defense.
Teams have scouts who watch and go to college and International games.
They almost unanimously are ranking Simmons #1 and Maker late in the 1st round.
So, are you saying the NBA teams scouts and management are all wrong and you are right?

"Why would I worry about Simmons defense?"

Exactly my point. Why would you?

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