Celtics Have To Start Taking Some Charges

As the energy, synergy, and confidence begins to rise in the Celtics' play, one area that will temper Celtic success is the lack of anyone but Big Baby taking charges. Lebron, Carmelo, Rashard Lewis, Joe Johnson, and many more continually drive into the Celtics' middle and do not pay the price. How many charges have Perkins, Garnett, and Wallace taken this year. The Celtics have got to tighten up the lane defense. They have got to take charges in the playoffs in order to get where they want to go.

Matador defense will not get it done. The foot speed of the celtics frontline is probably the slowest in the league. With Garnett injured, the shotblocking just isn't there against athletic teams. But when a player drives from outside the free throw line straight up the middle, charges have to be taken.

The offense is beginning to jell. The defense must pick it up!!

Go Celtics!!

sd

Good point. I have seen PP taking some charges and Davis is a machine lately but we need guys like Wallace to be willing to give up their body to get the ball back. I think it frustrates the other team pretty badly too.

Davis should have been given credit for a charge last night, but it was called a blocking foul. A very bad call.

bob

bobheckler wrote:Davis should have been given credit for a charge last night, but it was called a blocking foul. A very bad call.

bob

On the replay it clearly showed his left heel was on the line of the restricted area. Maybe you didn't see that.

Call was right.

steve3344 wrote:

bobheckler wrote:Davis should have been given credit for a charge last night, but it was called a blocking foul. A very bad call.

bob

On the replay it clearly showed his left heel was on the line of the restricted area. Maybe you didn't see that.

Call was right.

One heel on the line is what I saw on the replay as well.

well alrightee then.

Amazing how they can see a heel on a line but they miss the really big stuff.

bob

Officiating this year is downright wierd. There've always been make-up calls, but now it looks as though we're seeing a series of make-up calls, or a whole quarter of calls against one team while the other team hacks and whacks for free. Sometimes, when the calls go back and forth, keeping the games close, you can't help but reflect on the fragility of honor in the modern age and the prevalence of greed and rapaciousness.

Red Auerbach said it was much easier for officials to control the outcome of the games in basketball than in any other sport. Last year, when the NBA, NFL and MLB went to Wall Street banks for loans, only the NBA got help. The NFL and MLB got turned down, but not the NBA. Why???

tyrone,

By its nature don't you think the NBA is the hardest sport to referee? They could call a foul on almost every posession. There is no conspiracy by the referees to make one team win. I will admit that the superstars do get more calls just like they do in every sport in which there are judgment calls. How many 22 year old pitchers get the outside strike called in baseball? Very few. The superstars/veterans get that call. On a close pitch, who do you think the umpire is going to give a call to, Derek Jeter or Brett Gardner?
Yes, the NBA did take out an additional loan for $200m to help some of the teams that are in poorer condition financially.
Do you think LA, Boston or Cleveland received any of that loan money? They did not.
Borrowing money is part of business especially in harder fiscal times. The NBA already had a $1.7 billion line of credit, so borrowing additional funds is no big deal.
It seems like you don't like it when calls are made in favor of one team or when they go back and forth...???

steve3344 wrote:

bobheckler wrote:Davis should have been given credit for a charge last night, but it was called a blocking foul. A very bad call.

bob

On the replay it clearly showed his left heel was on the line of the restricted area. Maybe you didn't see that.

Call was right.

Maybe it was on the line, but the effort was there, wasn't it. You NEVER see guys like Wallace sacrifice their bodies for the team..just PP and Davis. Not sure I would like to see KG hit the floor hard, but I wouldn't mind seeing Wallace face up from time to time.

pumpsie


word up

TJ

Perhaps some teams need to fold period. Not just in hoops either but in all professional sports.

beat

TJ

With respect so dont go off on me. Were you a bulls fan before the Lakes? Have you made the jump with Jackson or have you been a Lakers man down the line?

Respectful question.

Jeb

tjmakz


I'm not suggesting there's a conspiracy of referees to fix games in the NBA. The referees are simply capitalist stooges. That's not to say they don't have their fun. You should read some of what Tim Donaghy wrote about the kinds of calls the referees make, sometimes simply to mess with certain players' heads. Donaghy was portrayed as a nutcase, but much of what he said has the ring of truth.

What I'm suggesting is something more far-reaching and sinister, like the proverbial international communist conspiracy, i.e., that the NBA is in league with the finance industry and the networks (and lord-knows-who-else) to fix the outcomes of games and playoff series.

I suspect there are various motives: to create parity and maintain fan interest, to build television ratings and sell ads, and, let's just say I would be shocked, shocked to find out that there was gambling going on involving huge sums of money. This international basketball conspiracy involves behind-the-scenes control of not just games but the lottery and who knows what else. Who are the perpetrators? Like Inspector Clouseau, I suspect everyone and I suspect no one.

It hasn't passed my notice that some of these powerful financial institutions are accustomed to (hooked on?) gambling - what else can you call it? - mostly on derivatives and other paper tulips, resulting in absurd profits. Now that these gambling opportunities are no longer available in financial markets, they need some way to keep their Ponzi scheme going, so where do they turn for quick easy returns?

Basketball is a game in which outcomes easily can be manipulated and it can be done right before people's eyes, like a magic trick. Then again, I have an extremely cynical perspective on life, human nature and the many perversions of power, especially under conditions of stress.

This whole line of thought was provoked by reading recently on espn.co that the NBA obtained a line of credit last year, in the first wave of fiscal Armageddon, when major league baseball and football were turned down flat. There had to be a very good reason for that. Think about it, -half the NBA teams were/are losing money and Wall Street gives them a generous, open-ended, unsecured line of credit? When does that ever happen anywhere? Maybe it's because basketball is the best sport. It's the only true American sport. Maybe it was patriotism. Or maybe Tim Donaghy was telling the truth and something is really really wrong. That's all I'm saying.

As far as the type of refereeing I'd like to see, there was a thread here two months ago about Sid Borgia, the godfather of NBA officials, who I called the only good referee. I'd like to see more refs like Sid Borgia. Not so the Celtics will win more games, but because I want to see referees call them fair and equal.

One of the officials Borgia trained, Charley Eckman, said of him, "Sid told me two things: First, "Let the players decide the game." He didn't get caught up in all the details and rules. His idea was to keep play moving, that no one bought a ticket to watch free throws. The other thing he said was, "Make the tough call on the road. Sid had a barrel of guts. He didn't care if he made a call that brought the house down on him. If that was what he thought was the right call, he made it and then took the abuse."

Another of his proteges, Joe Gushue, said, "[Sid] was a banty little rooster who never took a step back from anyone. The players knew that Sid worked a unique style of game. They'd see him and say, "Sid's here. That means we can really pound the boards. We can get away with this and that."

"I felt there were nights when Sid went out to see how few fouls he could call. He still had control of the game, but players went over each other's backs for rebounds. If you drove down the middle, you were fair game. There were nights when he had fights in his game, but not as many as you'd think, given how loosely he called it. . . . The philosophy was, "At the end of the game, don't make a call that can be blown out of proportion." So you gave the players more lattitude in the final moments. It's a terrible thing to say, but it's how we were taught to call the games. The intent of the game was that the best team on that night would win, not that the game would be decided because an official called a ticky-tack foul in the final seconds and put a guy on the foul line."

"Our rules were: Don't call three seconds unless it affected a play. Don't call traveling unless a player gained an advantage from it. Don't blow the whistle just to blow it."

spike

jeb65 wrote:TJ

With respect so dont go off on me. Were you a bulls fan before the Lakes? Have you made the jump with Jackson or have you been a Lakers man down the line?

Respectful question.

Jeb

Jeb,

Not sure why you think I would go off on you...??? I feel I have to comment when people (not you) state opinions as facts and just make stuff up hoping others believe them. To those that aren't well informed, they are often gullible enough to beleive opinions as facts.
To answer your question, I have been a huge Lakers fan since I was about 8 years old. I never liked the Bulls but respected them.

beat wrote:TJ

Perhaps some teams need to fold period. Not just in hoops either but in all professional sports.

beat

beat,

I definitely feel that is the case in MLB that 4-6 teams should disband if they can't come close to supporting themselves but the NBA doesn't open their books enough for us to make that kind of determination. The owners said they will probably lose $400m this year but the league said that number will be closer to $60m.
Unfortunately I don't think sports have learned a lesson from the recession that we shouldn't prop up failing businesses. I do realize that with contracts and stadium/arena commitments it is not easy to fold teams.

tyroneshoelaces wrote:tjmakz


I'm not suggesting there's a conspiracy of referees to fix games in the NBA. The referees are simply capitalist stooges. That's not to say they don't have their fun. You should read some of what Tim Donaghy wrote about the kinds of calls the referees make, sometimes simply to mess with certain players' heads. Donaghy was portrayed as a nutcase, but much of what he said has the ring of truth.

What I'm suggesting is something more far-reaching and sinister, like the proverbial international communist conspiracy, i.e., that the NBA is in league with the finance industry and the networks (and lord-knows-who-else) to fix the outcomes of games and playoff series.

I suspect there are various motives: to create parity and maintain fan interest, to build television ratings and sell ads, and, let's just say I would be shocked, shocked to find out that there was gambling going on involving huge sums of money. This international basketball conspiracy involves behind-the-scenes control of not just games but the lottery and who knows what else. Who are the perpetrators? Like Inspector Clouseau, I suspect everyone and I suspect no one.

It hasn't passed my notice that some of these powerful financial institutions are accustomed to (hooked on?) gambling - what else can you call it? - mostly on derivatives and other paper tulips, resulting in absurd profits. Now that these gambling opportunities are no longer available in financial markets, they need some way to keep their Ponzi scheme going, so where do they turn for quick easy returns?

Basketball is a game in which outcomes easily can be manipulated and it can be done right before people's eyes, like a magic trick. Then again, I have an extremely cynical perspective on life, human nature and the many perversions of power, especially under conditions of stress.

This whole line of thought was provoked by reading recently on espn.co that the NBA obtained a line of credit last year, in the first wave of fiscal Armageddon, when major league baseball and football were turned down flat. There had to be a very good reason for that. Think about it, -half the NBA teams were/are losing money and Wall Street gives them a generous, open-ended, unsecured line of credit? When does that ever happen anywhere? Maybe it's because basketball is the best sport. It's the only true American sport. Maybe it was patriotism. Or maybe Tim Donaghy was telling the truth and something is really really wrong. That's all I'm saying.

As far as the type of refereeing I'd like to see, there was a thread here two months ago about Sid Borgia, the godfather of NBA officials, who I called the only good referee. I'd like to see more refs like Sid Borgia. Not so the Celtics will win more games, but because I want to see referees call them fair and equal.

One of the officials Borgia trained, Charley Eckman, said of him, "Sid told me two things: First, "Let the players decide the game." He didn't get caught up in all the details and rules. His idea was to keep play moving, that no one bought a ticket to watch free throws. The other thing he said was, "Make the tough call on the road. Sid had a barrel of guts. He didn't care if he made a call that brought the house down on him. If that was what he thought was the right call, he made it and then took the abuse."

Another of his proteges, Joe Gushue, said, "[Sid] was a banty little rooster who never took a step back from anyone. The players knew that Sid worked a unique style of game. They'd see him and say, "Sid's here. That means we can really pound the boards. We can get away with this and that."

"I felt there were nights when Sid went out to see how few fouls he could call. He still had control of the game, but players went over each other's backs for rebounds. If you drove down the middle, you were fair game. There were nights when he had fights in his game, but not as many as you'd think, given how loosely he called it. . . . The philosophy was, "At the end of the game, don't make a call that can be blown out of proportion." So you gave the players more lattitude in the final moments. It's a terrible thing to say, but it's how we were taught to call the games. The intent of the game was that the best team on that night would win, not that the game would be decided because an official called a ticky-tack foul in the final seconds and put a guy on the foul line."

"Our rules were: Don't call three seconds unless it affected a play. Don't call traveling unless a player gained an advantage from it. Don't blow the whistle just to blow it."

spike

spike,

I am sorry but I can't believe any of your points about the financial institutions and the NBA. A $250m loan to the NBA is not a big deal on Wall Street. Goldman Sachs earns a net profit of about $200m per day when the stock market is open. Additionally, the NBA has billions of dollars of collateral to back a loan/line of credit.
I believe and appreciate just about everything that you quoted Sid as saying. Referees don't want to decide a game and they should to some degree be more cautious about blowing the whistle at the end of a game.
They do also have prejudices for and against players because it is human nature. What would it take for Ray Allen to get a tech called on him? A lot because he is a good guy and is well respected. Conversly, Rasheed can hardly say anything because he is a bad guy with a terrible reputation.
Sometimes I can't believe how many fouls they miss, I just hope they even out over the course of a game.

Tj

Was tryin to get context. I feel some of this comical reffing started with Jordan.

Phil has enjoyed the benefits of good calls and coaching a team that makes the nba a ton of money for a long time.

Donahy was real. Game six in Sacto(Lakes) convinced me beyond any doubt that the officiating was beyond biased into rigged. I stopped watching for a while and damn near for good. It was the wwf for a while.

If Veteran respect was the law of the land Paul Pierce would get a ton of calls as he is a multiple year all star and was the mvp of the finals.But he does not. Not at home and not on the road. If you bump James when he has his head down charging the hoop it's a foul 8 times out of ten. It makes a player who is very good anyway damn near untouchable. When they need to call a foul on the team the money train superstar is playing on they call it on somebody expendable.

Jeb: The Money Train movie stars were Wesley Snipes, Woody Harrelson, & J Lo. (Jennifer Lopez). Robert Blake hasn't been a star since Baretta, and since he did Bonnie Lee in!-MD.-Also there was much more palming and carrying the ball with traveling calls pre-Jordan!-MD.

Responding to the topic of this thread, rather than the Celtic big men taking charges, they need to knock these guys who drive the basket on their butts. If Perk tries to take a charge against Lebron, it won't matter if Perk stands perfectly still for five seconds before Lebron crashes into him, because the call will go against Perk. He needs to put Lebron down hard, smack him in the face under the pretext of going for the block, and do it every time Lebron comes near him. Let's see what kind of intestinal fortitude the most pampered player has. That kind of rough and tumble play is what made the NBA fun. Now it's a league full of wimps and wussies (sp?).

md

Jordan got a free pass. So does your guy James. My point? Those guys are god enough to win without help. If a rule is applied differently to different people it's not a rule. Further it hurts the game.

Think Pat has any chance of beating the hated uconn?

jeb65 wrote:Tj

Was tryin to get context. I feel some of this comical reffing started with Jordan.

Phil has enjoyed the benefits of good calls and coaching a team that makes the nba a ton of money for a long time.

Donahy was real. Game six in Sacto(Lakes) convinced me beyond any doubt that the officiating was beyond biased into rigged. I stopped watching for a while and damn near for good. It was the wwf for a while.

If Veteran respect was the law of the land Paul Pierce would get a ton of calls as he is a multiple year all star and was the mvp of the finals.But he does not. Not at home and not on the road. If you bump James when he has his head down charging the hoop it's a foul 8 times out of ten. It makes a player who is very good anyway damn near untouchable. When they need to call a foul on the team the money train superstar is playing on they call it on somebody expendable.

jeb,

Sorry if this is a duplicate as I had a response that didn't post...???
As someone that has watched the Celtics closely but not every game like you guys, I think Pierce get a lot of calls. At times I can't believe that the refs fall for his act of throwing his head back to draw a fould when he drives through the lane. He is an All-star and future hall of famer but not a superstar. In my opinion there has never been someone that has or is considered a superstar who never once finished in the top 5 of the MVP voting in a season.
I don't believe the NBA conspiracy theory. I don't believe refs rig or fix games. I never have seen evidence to the contrary.
Donaghy made up stuff to cover his own **s and to make it look like this was the culture of the NBA.

tj

In the 1984 NBA Finals, the Celtics were ahead in Game Six when suddenly the refs started calling everything against the Cs. The Lakers went on to win the game. Then, it was reported that David Stern had been overheard calling for the referees to make sure the series went seven games. Larry Bird, who had a phenomenal game, went on a public tirade afterwards accusing Stern and the refs of fixing the game. Stern went into hiding and never did respond to Bird's allegations.

As a Laker fan, you wouldn't think there was game fixing going on because your team is always the beneficiary. No offense, that's just the way it is. I wonder how you'd feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

mvp of the finals tj. A superstar on the highest stage.

jeb65 wrote:mvp of the finals tj. A superstar on the highest stage.

There are many Superbowl MVP's that were not superstars.

Jeb

I wish someone could beat um. Geno Ari(whatever)ola is a total jerk IMHO. Arrogant is just the start with this guy.

Not really a Summit fan but I will be rootin for anyone to knock them off their high horse.

beat