Dragan Bender.

https://t.co/FegtCSP52q

International,

Thanks for that link.  I've been trying to gather film of him, but I'm having trouble finding some.  If you have access to any more, please post it on this thread.  This was a great article.  I wasn't sure about him, because he is SO thin (but then, I thought Gobert might be too thin too.  What do I know?) and didn't play many minutes with Maccabi.  I know the reason why he didn't play a lot of minutes is because of all the veterans ahead of him and the Euros don't play as long a season as the NBA so there are fewer games available for player development (or likelihood of injuries) but that still doesn't tell me anything about his game when he is on the court.  The game film of his game against Bologna they provided was something else.  Where Kelly is deliberate Bender is smooth as silk.

The kid also sounds like he has ganas.  He wants it, bad.  He is playing with a purpose.  I like that.  I also like that he's bringing his own coach to the US next year too.

A nice read, everybody, on the player that the majority, if not overwhelming majority, of mock drafters have going #3.  Make sure you watch the game film too.


bob


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"TOP PLAYERS FROM CROATIA AND BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA PLAY BASKETBALL TO EXPRESS BEAUTY... DRAGAN IS VERY MUCH FROM THIS CULTURE. AND DUNKING IN A LAYUP LINE WHEN YOU ARE 7’1’’ IS NOT AN EXPRESSION OF BEAUTY."

This Bender phenomenon reminds me of the Dante Exum phenomenon two years ago. Everybody was nuts over him, even if they couldn't figure out why. It's because he played with style, and looked cool running. Bender and Ben Simmons play with the same consciously stylish mentality.

I prefer substance, and aggression.

Many people don't know that Yugoslavian coaches are considered the best in teaching fundaments to children.The majority of these kids are ahead to others of the same age in the world.They share the ball and are not selfish.They are equally happy with an assist than with a basket made.Some people believe that he is better than Portzingis at the same age,i am not sure of that,but who knows.

After witnessing his brother's injuries, Dragan rarely puts himself in harm's way on the court. He will not, for example, risk a midair collision if he can avoid it. "Of course, Ivan's experience has influenced me," Dragan said.

That mentality will fly in Europe...

Maker and Bender have similar stories. Both from war-torn countries, both moved away from home with their brother to play basketball.

Both 7'1, both have guard skills, both highly mobile, both good 3 point shooters. Both smart, humble, likable kids.

I'll take the more athletic one with the more physical mentality, and the better #1 scorer mentality. Maker can pass too, just as well as Bender if not better, I'm guessing.


Maker playing big minutes at a top prep school and Bender sitting on the bench in a pro league is kind of like one rookie playing in the DLeague but getting tons of experience, and the other sitting on the bench but getting to practice with the big team.

Maker probably had more rough edges to his game a year ago, but now he's a lot more polished with all that game experience.

I think they'll both do well in the NBA, but Maker has better quickness/explosiveness/agility to defend some/all NBA small forwards, and the tougher mentality that makes him a safe bet to be at least an above average defender against NBA PFs.


I get the feeling Bender is somewhat like Dante Exum, looks great and stylish but isn't amazing at anything, and more of a role player than a take charge alpha scorer and defender.

From the article:

... oftentimes it's as if Dragan forgets how tall he is.

"Dragan needs to understand that he's 7'1", and he needs to play big even though he has the skill set of a guard," Randle said. "The NBA game will suit him well. He can stretch the floor and create space because of his range. This will force defenders to close out on him and open up the court for his teammates. He needs work on his lateral quickness, and his post-up game needs work, but those things will come."

middling lateral quickness, plays small, poor rebounder, poor post game.


So much of a prospect's NBA success depends on how tough and physical that guy is. Look at (almost) every draft bust and it comes down to mental weakness. If Dragan was a much better athlete he could play SF, but he can't, and he won't be able to in the NBA just like in Europe. Not surprising, since he's 7'1.

I suspect Thon Maker is even more athletic than in the videos I've shared, now that he has lost 8-9 lbs since the season ended in early March. His agility times at the Combine were all outstanding, I believe.
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Maker at SF might still be a stretch, but he has a significantly better chance of doing it than Bender. Man would that be sweet for whichever team drafts him and tries out that experiment. Maker is basically a taller Greek Freak.

But in this analytics small ball age, I think Bender will be a fine player overall, and in the advanced stats. Just like Olynyk.

Ok. I like Bender more now. But my gut says Thon. I think he'll be stronger, more athletic, and more durable. No evidence for this, just a hunch.

worcester wrote:Ok. I like Bender more now. But my gut says Thon. I think he'll be stronger, more athletic, and more durable. No evidence for this, just a hunch.

No reason why we couldn't get both.

steve3344 wrote:

worcester wrote:Ok. I like Bender more now. But my gut says Thon. I think he'll be stronger, more athletic, and more durable. No evidence for this, just a hunch.

No reason why we couldn't get both.

right, maybe Danny goes real big and big, and at 23 we get Hammons or Jones or Stone to be enforcer for Bender and Maker.....now that would be hell of a draft!!!!!

bye Sully, bye KO

my latest combined mock draft has Hammonds falling to #43.

so Danny could have two shots at him in the second round, if he wants him.

Bender scares the hell out of me at #3.

at #16 sure

I think Danny try's like hell to trade the #3 pick for a current NBA player. but if those options fail, he has the ammo to also trade UP into the #1 spot.

something like:
N. Noel, N. Stauskas and #1 overall pick
for
Kelly O, A. Bradley and #3 and #31 picks

that trade could happen before the draft even, as Philly is below the cap.

cowens/oldschool wrote:bye Sully, bye KO

More like bye Sully, bye Amir, bye Zeller.

KO is damaged goods ATM and his value is at its lowest. Danny shouldn't deal Kelly until he gets back to full strength and can get the best return. You may not value him very highly, but the rest of the league understands his value when he is healthy.

gyso

Somehow I think Kelly will become one of our very best players off the bench.

If you could get Bender at 16, maybe.

At 3? No way. Pass.

Rolls of the dice belong farther down in the draft.

gyso wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:bye Sully, bye KO

More like bye Sully, bye Amir, bye Zeller.

KO is damaged goods ATM and his value is at its lowest.  Danny shouldn't deal Kelly until he gets back to full strength and can get the best return.  You may not value him very highly, but the rest of the league understands his value when he is healthy.

gyso

gyso,

I agree.


bob


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Olynyk already is one of our best players off the bench. Has been for the last 3 years.

One of our best players period, for three years straight, based on how the Team performs whenever he's on the court.

Some people just have a passionate, irrational hatred of the guy.

Which is part of the reason I don't want Bender. All his current supporters will go ape sh!t when they realize he's soft and always will be soft.

It wouldn't even matter if the team played at their best with him on the court, three years in a row.

you might love the guy, that doesn't mean hes not a wuss, I constantly read of his defensive shortcomings every year now from every board member

NYCelt wrote:If you could get Bender at 16, maybe.

At 3?  No way.  Pass.

Rolls of the dice belong farther down in the draft.

NYCelt,

There is only one player that is not named Simmons or Ingram that high up in the draft that is not a roll of the dice and that's Buddy Hield, and the reason why he isn't a roll of the dice is because he is a senior, 22 years old (making him 3-4 years older than the rest of his peers) and is more seasoned.  On the other hand, does he have any upside?

You got your sure things, the Karl-Anthony Towns, the Blake Griffins, the Anthony Davis's.  Players that are the obvious pick of that year's litter.
Then you got your "really good, but needs to develop better this or that"s.  Porzingis (weight), Enes Kanter (defense), Embiid (health).
After that, you're looking at flawed or incomplete players who will fill a role off the bench and, occasionally but infrequently, you'll draw to an inside straight and get the card you were hoping for and get a DeAndre Jordan (who is still very flawed but fits on that roster because of studs like Griffin and CP3) or a Rudy Gobert (who was drafted #27 by Denver and traded to Utah.  So Denver didn't "see" Gobert neither) or a Rodney Hood.

If you want a shooter, there are shooters.  If you want a starter they have to be more than just a shooter.  Is Buddy Hield ever going to be more than just a shooter?  He's a 6'5", 212# SG.  That's not tall by today's standards and it is really light.  He is, most likely, a single position player and Brad loves (and wants) multi-positional players.  He's a prolific and accurate shooter, like McBuckets was.  Well, that's nice, I like McBuckets and would love to see him in green, but McBuckets was picked #11, not #3.  As a #3 he would be underwhelming, not just now but in all likely futures.  To use a cross-sport metaphor, if you are picking third, you should hit a homerun.  If you have to wait a couple of years before the ball finally sails over the wall, fine, but you can't hit a single or a double with a #3 and think you drafted well.

I am always worried when I don't see defensive highlights, only offensive ones.  I know that's what a lot of people want to see but I want to see the defensive ones too (or wonder if there are any to be shown).  The reason why I have been asking arambone and international (and anybody and everybody else) for game film on Bender is because "highlight" videos are going to usually focus on shooting and passing because they are more spectacular.  The draftexpress scouting videos are good because they tell you strengths and weaknesses and, somewhere in those two, defense is cited.  Unfortunately, draftexpress has not produced those for Bender yet.

There are only two players in this draft that are immediate, BIG impact players, and that's Simmons and Ingram.  Can Buddy come in and score?  Yeah, but that's the extent of his impact and I wonder, at his height and weight, what else he can do.

How many teams gave Uber-bust Anthony Bennett a chance?  How many teams have given Uber-bust Thomas Robinson a chance?  That's the virtue of "potential".  If you draft a player with potential, he will retain value beyond his actual performance and his draft position establishes potential and fair market value.  Evan Turner was on his way out of the league after the meltdown in Indy but, because he was a #2 pick and shows potential, Danny gave him another 2-year lease on his NBA career. If Evan Turner had been drafted #12, or 22, would Danny have done that?

Bender is #3 because he is the youngest player in the draft yet still has a couple of years of playing pro ball against MEN who are year's older, stronger and bigger.  Thon Maker, whom I like also, has never played against any competition stiffer than prep school kids.  You said you wouldn't roll the dice at 3, so you wouldn't take Maker at 3 either, right?  HOWEVER, he is moving up the mock drafts even though he still hasn't played against harder competition since last month when he was mid-2nd round.  It's all about potential.



bob


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bobheckler wrote:Can Buddy come in and score?  Yeah, but that's the extent of his impact and I wonder, at his height and weight, what else he can do.

Don't throw him in the one-trick pony dumpster just yet. There was a remarkably similar player in the draft five years ago -- a little taller but a little lighter and with the same wingspan, seen as a late-blooming shooter but with question marks about the rest of his game, particularly on defense -- but he turned out pretty well:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Klay-Thompson-5490/

Thompson was drafted 11th, not third, but in hindsight, he'd go somewhere around third (Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, and Kyrie Irving were also in that draft). The third pick that year was Enes Kanter.

The trick is knowing whether a guy will develop like Thompson when so many guys don't. Other than those sure-fire guys like Karl Anthony Towns, Anthony Davis, and Blake Griffin, I don't see how any of us really know. Will Dragan Bender become the next Dirk Nowitzki or Jan Vesely? Will Buddy Hield become Klay Thompson or Jimmer Fredette? To me, that's where the personal interviews and individual workouts tell the difference, and the GM and other talent evaluators have to be really good at that part.

To me, that's where the personal interviews and individual workouts tell the difference, and the GM and other talent evaluators have to be really good at that part.

Yes indeed, Outside; that's why we pay Danny the big bucks.

worcester wrote:To me, that's where the personal interviews and individual workouts tell the difference, and the GM and other talent evaluators have to be really good at that part.

Yes indeed, Outside; that's why we pay Danny the big bucks.

What do you mean "we", white man?


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Outside wrote:

bobheckler wrote:Can Buddy come in and score?  Yeah, but that's the extent of his impact and I wonder, at his height and weight, what else he can do.

Don't throw him in the one-trick pony dumpster just yet. There was a remarkably similar player in the draft five years ago -- a little taller but a little lighter and with the same wingspan, seen as a late-blooming shooter but with question marks about the rest of his game, particularly on defense -- but he turned out pretty well:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Klay-Thompson-5490/

Thompson was drafted 11th, not third, but in hindsight, he'd go somewhere around third (Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, and Kyrie Irving were also in that draft). The third pick that year was Enes Kanter.

The trick is knowing whether a guy will develop like Thompson when so many guys don't. Other than those sure-fire guys like Karl Anthony Towns, Anthony Davis, and Blake Griffin, I don't see how any of us really know. Will Dragan Bender become the next Dirk Nowitzki or Jan Vesely? Will Buddy Hield become Klay Thompson or Jimmer Fredette? To me, that's where the personal interviews and individual workouts tell the difference, and the GM and other talent evaluators have to be really good at that part.

"The trick is knowing whether a guy will develop like Thompson when so many guys don't. Other than those sure-fire guys like Karl Anthony Towns, Anthony Davis, and Blake Griffin, I don't see how any of us really know."

Outside - Regarding your above statement :
We don't know, but that doesn't stop the legion of amateur General Managers from coming to conclusions without having all the facts at their disposal. I guess its the only way that amateurs have to express their views and compete with the Pros. It would be interesting to view all these predictions a few years down the road.


swish