The Case For Buddy

There are lots and lots of reasons to draft Buddy Hield but I can only think of one reason not to...he wear's # 24..lol Sam's #

Let's revisit the FACTS again

The Evidence

Sporting News, CBS, Naismith Award, and USBWA Oscar Robertson Trophy, John R. Wooden Award as the national player of the year, and also won the Jerry West Award as the nation’s top shooting guard.

Lots of film on this guy but whatever you want to know see the OK/Kansas film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s


The Numbers

Averaged 25 PPG  because he
shot 46% from 3 pt land
88% from the foul line and
50% overall on FGA
grabbed 5.7 rebound per game
2.0 assists
1.1 steals
Scored 30 or more points in 12 games this year

Measurements

6' 5" (shoes)
211 Lbs
6' 9.25" wingspan
Considered to be physically ready to play in the NBA from day one


Other Factors

The Boston Celtics under coach Brad Stevens have become a team that plays a pace and space game.  For the past 3 years the Celtics have really struggled to shoot a high percentage.  This past season Boston took 26.1 3 point shots per game but shot only .335%.  That was 28th among all NBA teams and reflects a serious deficiency in their offense.  The Pace and Space game is here to stay but Boston must improve their ability to make 3 point shots.  It follows that adding players that van make 3 point shots is a step in the right direction.

Is there any reason on God's green earth not to draft the best  shooter that we have seen come out of college since Stephan Curry?

Players with his skill level are rare and if you are 1 out of 32 teams that has a chance to add a player like Buddy Hield you do it.  There is no need to second guess yourself here.  Buddy Hield is the real deal and in my opinion he is the #1  player in the 2016 Draft.

The Celtics should not trade their pick or use it on anyone else other than Buddy Hield.  

dboss

dboss,

I'm sold.

Unless Ingram falls to 3, and that's not happening.

Regards

Being in Europe I don't have many chances to follow the college game (if I were so inclined) and
while I'm with the camp who favor getting the best big available, if this kid is really as good as his stats indicate I'd be all in with taking him at #3.

Berlin-T

I like him. I'd pick him a 3rd.

db

NYCelt wrote:dboss,

I'm sold.

Unless Ingram falls to 3, and that's not happening.

Regards

NYCelt

I know that you are.  His resume is quite impressive and fully supported by videos.  There is a large body of work to see.  So many videos on prospects provide just a flash here or there.  

With Buddy I believe that what you see is what you are going to get.    

We do have an opportunity to pass on him and maybe pick up a shooter later in the draft.  That is a legit argument.  But I think he is too damn good to pass on.

Some people think that he is just another jump shooter.  He is actually a great scorer who also happens to be the best long range bomber in the draft.  He will take you off the dribble and score inside on a variety of shots.  He has what I call a shooter's touch.  His rebounding is often not even mentioned.  Pretty solid at almost 6 per game.

dboss

Berlin-T wrote:Being in Europe I don't have many chances to follow the college game (if I were so inclined) and
while I'm with the camp who favor getting the best big available, if this kid is really as good as his stats indicate I'd be all in with taking him at #3.

Berlin-T

Berlin i would suggest that you watch more videos on him.

When was the last time you can recall a player winning 6 major awards the same year?

He is really as good as he looks. But the Celtics just have to decide if there is another player available at #3 that is better because some may have potential but in terms of being a flat out baller today..right now...there is no question in my mind. The other thing is the value of trading #3.

Personally i would be very reluctant to trade the pick because it is not often that the Celtics have a chance to draft a star player and our cap space provides an opportunity to add a couple of really good players without having to give up assets.

I want my cake and eat it too!

dboss

you make a strong argument for him for sure and in this draft at #3 could certainly be the best pick Danny could make. I certainly like him more than Bender and any of the other guards ranked 3-8 would likely take longer to get NBA minutes (though some may end up being better players in the end, some may argue).

But I think Danny is going for more of a leap this year and this pick will be part of the assets needed to do that.

But lets say he does pick Hield at #3 in the end.

What are the next moves Danny should make to  improve the roster?

not enough Minutes for Bradley, Thomas, Smart and Hield (if he is as good as promised). someone has to go, if Hield cannot get minutes he doesn't help our outside shot (assuming he can as a rookie). we'd still lack a big man and more importantly for the Ownership and Danny a "star" player. Perhaps said player will sing here as a FA, but we'll have to see it happen first.


and would it be right to say the draft (right now) that would make the board happiest would be:
3- Hield
16. Valentine
23- Maker
??

kdp59 wrote:you make a strong argument for him for sure and in this draft at #3 could certainly be the best pick Danny could make. I certainly like him more than Bender and any of the other guards ranked 3-8 would likely take longer to get NBA minutes (though some may end up being better players in the end, some may argue).

But I think Danny is going for more of a leap this year and this pick will be part of the assets needed to do that.

But lets say he does pick Hield at #3 in the end.

What are the next moves Danny should make to  improve the roster?

not enough Minutes for Bradley, Thomas, Smart and Hield (if he is as good as promised). someone has to go, if Hield cannot get minutes he doesn't help our outside shot (assuming he can as a rookie). we'd still lack a big man and more importantly for the Ownership and Danny a "star" player. Perhaps said player will sing here as a FA, but we'll have to see it happen first.


and would it be right to say the draft (right now) that would make the board happiest would be:
3- Hield
16. Valentine
23- Maker
??

kdp,

Darn close.

For me it would be

3 - Hield
16 - Valentine
23 - Stone (followed by Jones and Zimmerman, in that order, depending on who is available if Stone is taken).

Hield, Valentine and Stone?  Three rookies who get serious playing time and help take the next step forward.

Regards

kdp59 wrote:you make a strong argument for him for sure and in this draft at #3 could certainly be the best pick Danny could make. I certainly like him more than Bender and any of the other guards ranked 3-8 would likely take longer to get NBA minutes (though some may end up being better players in the end, some may argue).

But I think Danny is going for more of a leap this year and this pick will be part of the assets needed to do that.

But lets say he does pick Hield at #3 in the end.

What are the next moves Danny should make to  improve the roster?

not enough Minutes for Bradley, Thomas, Smart and Hield (if he is as good as promised). someone has to go, if Hield cannot get minutes he doesn't help our outside shot (assuming he can as a rookie). we'd still lack a big man and more importantly for the Ownership and Danny a "star" player. Perhaps said player will sing here as a FA, but we'll have to see it happen first.


and would it be right to say the draft (right now) that would make the board happiest would be:
3- Hield
16. Valentine
23- Maker
??

kdp59

Thanks..I did make a compelling case for Hield.  The case was very easy to make. Any reasonable fan can only recognized that Hield is very impressive. Some of the criticisms are pretty funny like he is just a shooter or he has a funny jump shot.  

In another post I addressed the plethora of guards on the roster.  We already have a lot of guards as you know.  However only 2 guards on this team have proven that they have the ability to make outside shots consistently.  The way I see it is that our collections of assets should be used to upgrade some starting positions and the rotation where needed.  It is clear that we must upgrade our ability to make 3 point shots otherwise the Pace and Space game is academic at best.  Some can argue that our biggest need is at center and if there was a center that had half of the accolades that Hield has received I would be all for it.  So in this draft we can definitely add a player or 2 that will transform our offense.  That will address a major weakness because although we really need a rim protector our defensive efficiency is better than our offensive efficiency.

The current roster will not and cannot remain as is.  The process of making the roster better will involve upgrades.  


I like valentine a lot but I think we will need to add a SF  with more length.  Valentine is an impressive player with multiple skills but at 6' 4" he will struggledto match up with bigger small forwards.

Maker will work out with Boston so they will have a chance to see him up close.  He is a very skilled big man with a really nice handle.  He will need to be on a strength program but in 2-3 years he could really be a significant piece for the team,  I would not have a problem taking him at 23.  i do not think he will be there in the 2nd round.

The 3rd pick will not be enough to make a trade for a superstar.  The Celtics would have to part with a core player or two just to make the money work.  The best option that will allow Boston to retain their core players , is to use free agency to add the player or players that are still needed once the draft process has been completed.  You can keep you core and the best of your picks and still add free agents.

The Celtics actually have enough draft picks to upgrade their team over the next 3 years including this year.  The core players that we have are not only good players but they also have very friendly cap numbers.  To move them is not a good long term financial decision.

I am looking at the situation in a pragmatic way.  

Danny does not have to trade the 3rd pick to make that leap.  Some of the made up trade targets should be evaluated based on the team needs.  For example, there has been a lot of chatter about Butler.  I like Butler and I think he is a good player however Butler shoots .312% on 3 pooint attempts.

He is a shooting guard that cannot make 3 point shots.  The point I am making is obvious.  Why use assets that will result in picking up a big time contract for a player that does not address one of your major weaknesses?  

KDP59 it took me a very long time to accept and buy into this small ball, pace and space, 3 point shooting game.  Now that I have bought in, I'm all in.


dboss

I guess I just can't see 3 rookies on our roster next year. we have four roster spots if Sully, Turner and Zeller all sign elsewhere.

3 rookies leaves us one player to sign ( or two if we eat Young's cheap deal).

Maybe we will get that high dollar FA (Horford or someone else), but I doubt replacing two players who were main rotation players ( Turner and Sully) with 2 rookies( say Hield and Valentine) will convince any vet FA that we are moving forward.

if I had to bet I still say their will be no more than 2 rookies on our roster next year and the #3 pick will be traded.

time will tell for sure.

Dboss, you had me at the John Wooden Award. How's this for an idea? Draft Hield and the best players available this year at 16 and 23. Draft well the next 2 years with Brooklyn's picks. Wind up with a bevy of young, great reasonably priced shooters/players, trade assets as necessary, and take the NBA by storm from 2018-2028.

KDP59

I agree 3 rooks are unlikely.  My wish list was a prayer for 2 shooters out of the draft and 2 max contract players.

Dboss

Worcester

That is also an option.

As long at we add Buddy and keep AB I'm good

Dboss

I agree Buddy could be a great pick, glad read that he has alot of scoring ability and stats show he rebounds, hes a better college player than Klay Thompson, if he is near Klay's level at the next level we have a real future all star piece. We will not need Valentine if we draft Buddy, look at all the guards we have, IT, AB, Smart, Rozier, now add Hield and Turner can also play the 2 and initiate the offense if he is still here. I really like both our defensive pitbulls, Avery and Smart, so with that crowded backcourt, I would go after the best big available, and Maker could be there and hopefully blows the coaching away at his workout. At 6'5" with long arms, I wonder if Hield can play the 3? A pick that could be groomed to play the 3 that intrigues me is Jaylon Brown.

The films I have seen on him, Hield has a very funny jump shot and does not gain much vertical lift when shooting. I think he fails as a pro shooter. Just my 3 cents from beyond the arc.

112288

112288 wrote:The films I have seen on him, Hield has a very funny jump shot and does not gain much vertical lift when shooting.  I think he fails as a pro shooter. Just my 3 cents from beyond the arc.

112288

112288,


I just watched the highlights of his 36 point game against VCU and of his 46 points against Kansas and of his 32 points against LSU (and Ben Simmons).

I don't see anything too weird about his jump shot.  It's a little unorthodox but his elbow is in and he follows through, but he doesn't usually get much vertical lift on his shot, I agree with you on that, but he gets good arc on it.  I think what makes it look flat is that his follow through looks flat.  His hand is in front of him after he shoots instead of over his head, which is what you usually see.  That might mean he gets blocked more in the NBA, or it might mean he gets fouled more in the NBA.  I'm not sure.  And he doesn't seem particularly athletic nor quick.  He might have trouble creating at the NBA level.  There's no doubt about his range and accuracy though.  The kid can shoot and he could score inside against college kids.  As I said, I think he might struggle penetrating and finishing in the pros inside.  There was one time, in the Kansas game, where he followed another player's shot in and tipped in the miss.  He barely got over the rim on it and got just enough ball to put it back in off the backboard.  We have all seen 6'2" Avery Bradley 2-hand dunk putbacks like that.  Once again, questionable athleticism at the NBA level, and he's 6'5" in a position that is already bigger than that.  He is, in short, a one-position player.  He might be great at that position, but he won't give Brad the versatility he loves so much.

One thing I did like, REALLY liked, was that, in the Kansas game, he was calling for the ball going down court.  A teammate would be bringing the ball up court and Hield was clapping his hands to make sure his teammate knew where he was and to get the ball to him.  That's leadership and confidence.  I liked that a lot.  It's like Smart.  He doesn't do some things well (in fact, he's the mirror image of Hield.  Where the value of Hield is 80% offense and 20% defense Smart is 20% offensive and 80% defense) but Marcus is not afraid of "the moment".

Unfortunately, with highlight films, you only see what the players are good at.  That's why they are "highlight" films.  So, they didn't show any Hield defense.  That might mean he sucks at defense, it might mean he was just adequate.  The only thing it does mean is that he didn't make any standout defensive plays because then they'd be in the highlight film too.

Set a double-staggered screen for Hield, however, and let him come off the pindown and I'll bet he will knock them down all day, all night and non-stop in Sunday matinee games.  Ray Allen (and Pete Maravich, before him) was the King of pindowns and he's going to the HOF.  It was what I looked for, and hoped for, with RJ but didn't see last year.  You can see him popping out and hitting outside shots in the LSU game film.  He has the quick release that is so helpful with shooting pindowns before the defense can get around the screen(s).











bob



.

bob thanks for the video, he looks like a legit 6'5", hit alot of shots with guys in his face and has alot of nice finishes, not an elite athlete, young Ray Allen was more athletic, but more in a Paul Pierce mode without quite the strength, but no question a nice touch around the basket on his drives and shooting stroke looks pretty legit.

NY Celt might be on to something.

OMG, first time watching BH play. I had no idea he was THIS good. Don't cry for me Argentina. I've got the #3 pick, and I am taking Buddy Hield!

Worcester

Some observations from watching him play.

He has a great first step which allows him to get to where he wants to go.  He has the step back jumper and knocks it down consistently.  He reads defenses very well and instinctively knows where to attack.  He gets his shot off in really tight spaces and needs very little room.  He is a big time scorer who wants the ball.  No fear
. No hesitation.  

He is a most perfect fit in Brad's offense.  I say draft him and everything after that is gravy


Dboss

dboss wrote:Worcester

Some observations from watching him play.

He has a great first step which allows him to get to where he wants to go.  He has the step back jumper and knocks it down consistently.  He reads defenses very well and instinctively knows where to attack.  He gets his shot off in really tight spaces and needs very little room.  He is a big time scorer who wants the ball.  No fear
. No hesitation.  

He is a most perfect fit in Brad's offense.  I say draft him and everything after that is gravy


Dboss

you and NYCelt are doing a great job selling him to us. What do you think of Jaylen Brown?

NO! Athletic Yes. Has no shot! We have too many guys athletic but can do little else.

I am not sold on Buddy, I would rather take Dunn and trade one of our other guards to get a shot at Okafor. Dunn will be All League.

112288

112288

Well that is why we have discussions so that everyone one can share their point of view.  

As far as Dunn is concerned it is very unlikely that The Celtics will even work him out.  Did you read the thread about him

Also you are dead wrong about Hield.

He is too good not to at least consider him.  

Dboss

worcester wrote:OMG, first time watching BH play. I had no idea he was THIS good. Don't cry for me Argentina. I've got the #3 pick, and I am taking Buddy Hield!

You're not alone:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/2016-nba-mock-draft-post-lottery-edition.html/?ref=YF&yptr=yahoo

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/buddy-hield-oklahoma-sooners-basketball/

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14609771/oklahoma-buddy-hield-worked-way-top