Mock draft with Celtics making a trade with Sixers for Okafor

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/nba-mock-draft-2016-sixers-could-trade-jahlil-okafor-to-land-kris-dunn-at-no-3/

OKAFOR had a very good rookie year scoring.  But as the previous draft scouting reports revealed he is not a high end rebounder and rim protector.

Therefore in keeping with the Needs that the Celtics have, This does not address their needs.

Thumbs down...boo

Dboss

better brace yourself then.

21pt, 8 reb and 1.4blocks per 36min as a rookie.

better than any player we might hope to get at #3 in this draft IMO.

trouble is I don't see Philly taking only that pick for him.

best ot think of Okafor as a BIGGER and better Sullinger.

that would spell upgrade with a young player with upside.

I'll take that for a start if Danny coudl snag him tfor that pick

I am not sure that Okafor is the total answer moving forward, but he will be at least a better player than Sullinger (as KDP mentions) as our center, and even at a reduced financial commitment for a couple of years.

Perhaps the number 3 pick and a couple of second rounders? AND, I would gladly throw James Young into the deal to get Okafor because some player will have to be included to make the salaries work.

This way the 'ers get the guard (Dunn) they apparently want so badly and also thin out their young pile of centers who already have shown that they cannot play together very well while the Cs get a center who definitely upgrades our team at least for the next three of seasons.

http://www.csnphilly.com/the700level/chad-ford-high-likelihood-sixers-trade-jahlil-okafor-or-nerlens-noel

Philly is going to want something else besides that pick. I can only imagine what it will be, but I am bracing myself for something I may not care for. I know that no one is untouchable here, but they are going to want Bradley, Smart, or another guard since the reason they are trading Okafor is that they have too many bigs.

You know, the stupid thing about all this is they had at least two good guards and traded them away, even three if you count MCW.

This rumor still makes no sense to me, even for Philly.

So here you are with three forwards, all young and highly regarded from recent drafts.  You've seen two of them get in some NBA time, and it sure does look like they're going to become among the games best young bigs.  Like most any NBA club, the team would love to keep two dynamic young front-court players.  You have a third, who hasn't stepped on an NBA floor.  Furthermore, the delay is due to foot injuries, which have destroyed the career of many bigs in basketball.  Some say that Okafor and Noel do not have complimentary games, and use that as complete justification for their position.  Of course they can be used together or in rotation, and often did create a productive twin tower situation, until Okafor's injury this season. Yet Embiid, the third, has never taken the floor with either of the other two. 

Naturally, you trade one of the two who has proven they can play, and keep the guy with the untested game and an untested foot.

Uh-huh.

dead on NY Celt

Good point NYCELT

Embed is the big unknown.  They would be making a trade in the blind.

Dboss

dboss wrote:Good point NYCELT

Embed is the big unknown.  They would be making a trade in the blind.

Dboss

That's why they're the Sixers.

Simmons and Saric give them a big logjam with bigs.

I'll take Noel for the #16 pick if they want instead. doubt they'd do it.

If they do want Dunn this draft, not sure what else they could give us for the #3 pick.

would Noel and H. Thompson be enough for that #3 pick for you?

both players would be RFA next season.

just throwing things out there.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/05/jahlil_okafor_boston_celtics_t.html



Should Jahlil Okafor tempt the Boston Celtics? Discussing the trade speculation that won't go away




Philadelphia 76ers' Jahlil Okafor in action during an NBA basketball game against the Washington Wizards, Friday, Feb. 26, 2016, in Philadelphia. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)



Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com


on May 26, 2016 at 12:30 PM, updated May 26, 2016 at 12:44 PM



The Golden State Warriors are on the brink of a stunning defeat. Kevin Durant no longer appears likely to want a new team. Bismack Biyombo's going to be a wealthy man, the Cleveland Cavaliers have a mighty offense, and the Toronto Raptors have put together one of the most bizarre playoff runs in recent history. They are great on some nights, miserable on others, and perplexing all the time.

Meanwhile, the Boston Celtics are exploring what to do with their summer. Based on his most recent tweet, Danny Ainge appears to be overseas, scouting possible draft picks, which should be helpful because he owns eight selections next month. What makes Ainge's summer interesting is he could do just about anything. He controls 13.3 percent of the draft and still holds the rights to Brooklyn's first-round picks in 2017 and 2018. He could clear enough space for two maximum-contract free agents. He has a 48-win team with a number of tradable contracts and he has a reputation for dreaming large.

But Ainge has already admitted what everyone knew: getting the third pick, instead of a top-two choice, limited Boston's trade opportunities this summer. Celtics head coach Brad Stevens has called himself "really excited" about the prospects who should be available at No. 3, but the perfect candidate for Stevens' team would be either A) a versatile wing who can shoot from the outside or B) an athletic big man (preferably one who could also space the floor) to fortify the interior. Unless Brandon Ingram suffers an unexpected draft-night fall, the Celtics may instead be selecting from a group of guards (like Kris Dunn, Jamal Murray and Buddy Hield), a super-athletic wing with shooting and awareness issues (Jaylen Brown), and a mobile 18-year-old big man with impressive talent who may need years to develop (Dragan Bender). Selecting anybody else at No. 3 might be a reach, and, given Boston's backcourt depth, none of the aforementioned guys feel like ideal fits. Bender could become one if he reaches his potential. Really, anybody else could become one too. That's the difficulty of judging guys, in many cases, before they can legally purchase a Bud Light.

Still, the landscape of the No. 3 pick is partially why the Jahlil Okafor speculation hasn't disappeared. It all started back at the trade deadline, when the Boston Herald's Steve Bulpett reported serious talks between the Celtics and Philadelphia 76ers. In a lot of ways, continuing the chats now makes sense: the 76ers have already learned Okafor doesn't mesh with Nerlens Noel, and the Celtics only have one rotation big man with a guaranteed contract for next season. That's Kelly Olynyk, who could miss at least part of the preseason after undergoing surgery on his shooting shoulder. Okafor averaged 17.5 points and 7.0 rebounds as a rookie -- after helping Duke capture a national championship as a freshman -- but his potential can be debated thanks to some glaring flaws. Philadelphia might prefer to have a guard like Dunn or Murray, while the Celtics -- despite Ainge's longstanding philosophy of drafting the best player available -- might want someone at another position.

Should the Celtics target Okafor?

Well...


The argument

What we know: Okafor has a gift for scoring. He showed that even while playing for one of the worst NBA teams ever assembled, in a situation that couldn't have been less conducive to his skill set. The big man played next to Noel, who clogged the paint, and alongside a horde of poor shooters, none of whom took any defensive pressure away from Okafor. When Philadelphia pulled off a midseason trade for Ish Smith -- not an elite guard -- he stood out as the team's most capable playmaker. With Smith on the court, Okafor shot 60.1 percent from the field, a glimpse, perhaps, into what he could accomplish on a viable roster. Though the NBA has shifted away from post-up-centric offenses, a dominant big man -- like Okafor could become offensively -- still fits into the "Moneyball" formula of creating shot opportunities at the rim and at the 3-point arc. Interior scoring collapses the defense and forces teams into scramble mode, which should in turn open outside looks, at least once Okafor develops as a passer out of double teams (an area he showed some potential in during college, but did not fare too well with as a rookie).

The questions around Okafor are still serious, though. Take a look around the NBA, where defensive versatility kills. The Oklahoma City Thunder are on the verge of shocking the basketball world partly because Steven Adams and Serge Ibaka can switch onto guards, even those named Stephen Curry. The Cleveland Cavaliers have benched Kevin Love during a pair of fourth quarters partly because he cannot adequately stop pick-and-rolls. The Celtics experienced similar issues during the playoffs, needing to limit Jared Sullinger -- their best big man over parts of the regular season -- because he couldn't match up with the Atlanta Hawks. To play championship basketball, big men must slide their feet, rotate crisply and disrupt other team's intentions. That's why Biyombo will earn a whole lot of money this summer, and why Okafor -- even if you don't consider his immaturity as a rookie, or the fact that his lone NBA season ended with a serious knee injury -- has a lot of doubters. He hasn't shown that type of ability (or desire) yet.

The great Jonathan Tjarks wrote a lot of wise words about Okafor in February, shortly before the big man underwent season-ending surgery to repair a torn meniscus. The summary: Okafor can fill it up but needs to learn how to play winning basketball. That starts at the defensive end of the court, where centers are targeted repeatedly if they can't hang, but extends to other areas, like offensive awareness and rebounding.

There is hope. At about the same age as the big man, Marc Gasol was a chunky player with all sorts of questions about his athleticism. He lost weight, transformed himself into great shape, and developed into a Defensive Player of the Year. Not everyone's Gasol, of course. Some chunky guys stay chunky, and some bad defenders remain that way for their whole careers. Again, judging guys at such a young age is tough. It's why the draft produces busts, every year, and why some players become second-round steals. Learning defense -- especially for a guy who has never really played it -- is really hard. When asked whether he would pull the trigger on an Okafor trade if he ran the Celtics, one rival front-office figure responded with one word: "No." Others have voiced similarly strong views.

But Okafor's just 20. He has obscene length (a 7-foot-6 wingspan) and an enormous frame. He's certainly not the quickest big man, but has all the tools to make a real difference in the paint, at least, should he choose to work and work (and work) on his defensive skills. NBA scouts like Bender as a prospect because he could one day possess the ability to stretch the court, play multiple frontcourt positions, and hinder guards with his defensive quickness. Okafor doesn't have the same versatility in his future, but could compensate by taking advantage of his size, strength and length. He has to start by first, you know, trying on defense, but his effort level could improve on a team built to win more than a handful of games.

What bothers people most about Okafor is that his weaknesses are the type that matter most -- and the type that could forever hold back his teams, if he does not fix them. He's talented enough to play on any team already, but flawed enough that his minutes may not help. Think about Enes Kanter, who is borderline unplayable in certain situations despite being a tall dude with soft touch and a load of rebounding chops. Still, Okafor was considered the probable No. 1 pick for a big chunk of last year, and had some supporters at that spot (yes, over Karl Towns) leading up to the draft. He has a great upside if he ever eliminates some of his weaknesses.

With that in mind, Boston.com's Chad Finn recently published an interesting piece about why he thinks the Celtics should target Okafor https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2016/05/23/jahlil-okafor-trade-makes-sense
-- not as a franchise center, but as a trade chip. Finn makes some strong points, comparing Okafor to Al Jefferson, the master of up fakes who Boston used to net Kevin Garnett. But in the nine years since that trade, the NBA has shifted toward small ball and 3-point shooting. Teams don't value guys like Jefferson so highly these days. The problem with Okafor is that NBA people wonder how he will fare in a world so brimming with guards.


So, should the Celtics trade for him?

Predicting anything in this Celtics offseason is tough because every decision relies on 1 million factors, many of which won't be decided until draft night or later. Ainge will chase after big targets, explore all the draft prospects, and come to his own conclusion about what provides the best value at that spot. We know he wants to set up Boston for sustained success, and we know he can fall in love with a young player. Just last year, Ainge was willing to swap a mountain of draft riches for a young man, Justise Winslow, who nine other teams passed up. Boston could fall for a prospect again this summer, and actually have the means to take him at No. 3.

Choosing Okafor would suggest that the Celtics didn't lure an established fish, and that they considered him more valuable -- to them, and/or as a trade chip -- than the other prospects on the board. It would also mean that the 76ers were willing to trade him, which is certainly possible considering their roster makeup, but never assured. A lot has changed in the Philadelphia organization since the reported trade talks in February, starting with Sam Hinkie's resignation.

If the offer is on the table -- Okafor for the No. 3 pick (no, Gary Tanguay, the Celtics are not adding Marcus Smart to the deal) -- Okafor would come with obvious issues he needs to iron out. But he's skilled and he's huge, and Brad Stevens repeatedly states that he focuses on what a guy can do, not what he can't. Okafor can already do some rare things. The center's long-term future depends on improving the critical things he can't do, which is why a trade would come with plenty of risk.



bob
MY NOTE:  Okafur might be a more effective low post offensive player than Sully, who has struggled to score down low because, at 6'9", he isn't the tallest player down there anymore but he is not anywhre near as effective an offensive player from even mid-range.  Defensively, Okafur might be worse despite having the better body for it.

I like that he all but called Gary Tanguay an idiot.  It's about time someone did besides the members of this board.  


.

you can't teach a 7-6 wingspan, but you can teach/coach up a player on his defensive play.

I still think he would cost us the #3 pick AND one of Smart or Bradley.

too much for me unless they sweeten it somehow, maybe H. Thompson as long 3 point shooter.

#3 and Smart
for
Okafor and Thompson

still seems heavy in Phiilys favor to me, but I'm a Celtics fans also.


#3, #31 and Smart

for

Okafor, Thompson and # 24

gets a bit warmer for me.

I still believe any deal for Okafor will need to include either Bradley or Smart.

I don't like the idea of trading the #3 pick for guys who may only be around for one year. Noel has some nice potential to help the Cs but not worth giving up the third pick for.

Using the third pick needs to produce a much better chance of much more long term results, in my opinion. This pick needs to either be traded for a 'star' player who will be around for at least two years (Cousins?) or used to draft a guy who projects to be a long term star.

kdp's thoughts of Noel for the 16th pick and James Young is very solid.

I still prefer pick #3 for Noel and Saric over Okafor.

Philly is not desperate for a quick rebuild. They will ask a lot for Okafor or Noel.
I could see them offering Mike Conley a huge contract. 4/$80m.
If they could sign a free agent pg, they can keep Okafor for now.
I still don't think Okafor will be traded until Embiid starts playing again, not just practicing.

But yeah Young and pick #16 for Noel would be fine with me as well.

How about 16, 35, 51, Young and Zeller (QO extended, helps make $ even)

for

Noel and pick #26?

The Celtics could then still try and trade for Jimmy Butler.  Picks 3, 26, 58, Amir and Rozier for Butler and Bulls 2nd rd pick #46.

Then trade Sully (QO extended) and pick #46 to the Clippers for Paul Pierce. 

Celtics draft Diallo, Zimmerman, Zizic, Jones, etc as an extra big at #23 (Maker of course if he slips this far, which I doubt he will). They draft Zhou Qui at #31 and then a combo-guard to replace Rozier at #45 like Brogdon, Payton II, Barber or Wallace. 

Team goes after big name FA's but ultimately they shun us. 

Rotation:

C - Noel (30-34 mins), Pick #23 (6-10), Olynyk (6-10)
PF - Olynyk (18-24 mins), Mickey (12-16), Jerebko (10-14)
SF - Crowder (26-30 mins), Butler (12-16), Pierce (6-10)
SG - Butler (18-24 mins), Bradley (22-26), Smart (4-6)
PG - Thomas (26-30 mins), Smart (18-22)

A deep team where it is tough to find minutes again. Hunter would have a hard time getting any mins if Pierce were brought back and given 6-10 a night. Otherwise those mins are his and Butler defends more SF's. 

I'd also be interested in relinquishing Bradley in the Butler deal if the Bulls send us back Taj Gibson or swap picks 23 and 14. Something like that. 

If the C's give up Bradley, meaning more SF mins available with Butler, Hunter and Smart taking all the SG mins, I'd definitely look into trying to get RFA Harrison Barnes to take 28-32 mins at SF/PF that would have gone to Butler and Jerebko.

A team with this depth would be a great mix of offense-defense and veterans (guys on their 2nd contract even if they are not yet 30) and young guys on rookie deals:

C -  Noel (30 mins), Olynyk (18)
PF - Gibson (20 mins), Mickey (14), Barnes (14)
SF - Barnes (20 mins) Crowder (28 mins) 
SG - Butler (34 mins), Hunter (8 ) Smart (6)
PG - Thomas (28 mins) Smart (20)

A 10 man rotation and bench that included one first rd big with lots of future upside (Diallo, Zimmerman, Zizic, Maker?) and a couple 2nd rd picks to develop and maybe 2-3 veterans added like Pierce, Noah and Hinrich for leadership and their ties to players on the team (Hinrich's and Noah's old Bulls teammates Butler/Gibson) and the organization (Pierce).

This team would have the cap room to add Durant to replace Gibson and Mickey's mins if there is a 110 million cap in 2017.

Not sure why Hunter's mins came up as an emoji but it was supposed to be 8

Ram wrote:Not sure why Hunter's mins came up as an emoji but it was supposed to be 8

The combination of an "8" and an ")" make a smiling emoji on this website.

Whenever it happens (and I notice it), I edit my post. I add a space between the 8 and the ).

(8 )

It makes it look odd, but it is better than a smiley!!

gyso

I don't think any basketball player thinks defense first.  It is only at these extreme levels (and in some cases NCAA Tournament times) that defense comes out as the deciding/differentiating factor to winning championships, other things equal.  

Same with free throws.  Although there is a wide range here.  Most can shoot and make free throws at a pretty good clip.  In the end, whether you win or lose, whether it's defense or free throws, championships are finalized and determined by who has more points when the clock runs out and who can get to win 4 games first.  I hate to disappoint everyone, but offense wins championships.  Defense helps and is indeed probably the number one contributing factor.  But if you can't score and fill up the basket, your game is over.  Defense must be taught over time.    

Enter Okafor.  He can score and rebound.  No one can dispute that.  Do we need scoring and rebounding?  Absolutely.  Is he a big?  Absolutely.  Can he learn defense under a Celtic system?  Absolutely.  

Next question is how much is he going to/will he cost us?  I don't think Danny will overspend for him.  He didn't overspend for KG and RA.  But that was a setting sun situation.  Value play.  This is on the other extreme.  Problem we have is PHI would be trading a good known for an unknown unknown, so we have to add more unknowns or a few knowns to make the trade happen.

I think I'd like him, but I'm not overpaying for him.  Danny can argue that and will not overpay.  Danny has to sell our mystique and our banners and our championship style and moxie.  No one else except LAL has those strengths.    

db