Post-game Thread: Celts 95 vs. Clippers 89, 1/25/09

[Sam]

All that was missing in this one was Paul Simon singing “Slip Slidin’ Away,” as the Celtics and Clippers skated their way across a wet,
slippery floor just feet above Bruins ice on a warm winter day. To the extent that they could gain traction (it improved in the second half), this was another stepping stone in the Celtics’ ascension back to contending status. They beat a team that had squeezed by them in L.A. and is fighting for a playoff spot in a pretty tough conference.

The ebb and flow in this one can be summarized pretty simply. The starters for the two teams played fairly even, but the Celtics’ bench fell behind by as many as nine points. The starters came back and pulled the Celtics within a point at halftime, as Rondo picked up the pace and Ray got hot. The starters immediately opened up a modest lead in the second half, and the Celts pretty
much maintained that lead to win by six.

In KG’s first post-injury game, the Celtics bench had spelled the margin of victory. In this second game, the starters compiled a +13 on the +/- scale; and the plurality was about the same in each half. While the box score will show minus ratings for the entire
Celtics bench, a three-minute stretch in the second quarter accounted for much of the deficit. Unfortunately, Walker was in there for that span, during which the Celts lost nine points to the Clips.

I’m afraid that, at this juncture, Walker—despite his athleticism—is a major risk as a chemistry-buster, although that doesn’t necessarily mean he lacks long-term potential; and I find it impossible to believe that tripling his minutes in this one would have changed anything
except to put the Celtics’ victory in extreme jeopardy. In this game, he started by fouling a guy on a three-point attempt. When
there was a defensive rebound, he was on the outside reaching in. On offense, he either stayed well outside the arc (effectively leaving the Celtics with a four-man offense) or went down low, was fronted, and failed to come to the ball resulting in a turnover. His last move on defense was to leave Thornton to double someone who was behind the backboard; the guy simply threw it out to Thornton for an easy jumper and an 11-2 Clips run while Walker was in there.

The Celtics certainly displayed no letdown in the second half of this one, as they went to the hoop early and often. After shooting only six freebies in the first half, they were awarded 28 in the last two quarters. Their defense stiffened as the game progressed, as they pushed the Clips offense and forced outside shots. They switched up beautifully. They stuck with their defensive like glue and contested inside shots as well.

At the end of three, the Celts led by five, and the bench quickly built it to 10, with Tony doing his helter skelter thing, which became
contagious. (Tony’s really struggling at the line, however.) But the Clips (especially Craig Smith) kept driving and closed to within
six, and the starters came in and maintained that margin throughout the rest of the game. And Rondo made two
freebies near the end, which I’m sure was very satisfying to him.

The Clippers did manage 11 offensive rebounds (six more than the Celtics), but they had more rebounding opportunities to work with, missing 11 more field goal attempts than the Celtics. Perk was immense in the rebounding department, with 15. He was the only starter who failed (by one skinny point) to score in double digits.

KG has periods when his lack of conditioning shows. He admitted, after the game, that his rebounding must and will improve.
Personally, I don’t think it’s a matter of hops, which he displayed last night on a powerful slam and a great sprint and block near the end. I believe that he’s just being a bit cautious in mixing it up under the boards. It will be interesting to observe his progress in that area.

As far as I’m concerned, this game deserves to be looked at for what it is—2% of the second half of the season. But, within that context, I saw a lot of promise. What encouraged me most was the rapidly improving chemistry among the starters. They’re playing great team defense, and they’re moving well on offense, making the extra pass, and seeing out their second and third options. And the bench (minus Walker) is showing signs of becoming a high-energy impact unit, although they still have long way to go.

Sam

[dboss]

The Celtics defense with KG is great but without him it stinks. Is it the system or is it the players?

Nice to see all those free throws made down the stretch while GS hit 3 three pointers to keep the game interesting.

Still do not understand why Ray Allen is playing so many minutes...At this rate you can forget about him come playoff time.

Next5 3 games will tell us something

I'll be at the game on friday in Atlanta. Time to beat dem hawks

dboss

[jeb]

dboss

if you watch him the whole game on o he just does so many little things that make a difference. He is a fine interior passer, he sets great LEGAL screens, he can bust from 19 and in. And he just flat requires defensive attention. It puts the other team in a pick your poison position. If they work it as coached they should get a good to great look most shots.

[dboss]

jeb

Ray Allen was brought on board becasue he is a hired gun. He has been shooting blanks all year and despite all the chatter i hear about him not getting enough looks he still leads the team in shot attempts. He is rather sloppy with the ball at times and his defense does not force any adjustments by the other team. When he is not shooting the ball well it really puts added pressure on the team to score points and then when he has to cover the Joe johnson's of the world his liability on defense combined with poor shooting is a double edged sword.

I have always liked Ray Allen except when he is in a prolonged funk like the one he is in now. Perhaps he will come out of it and string together some games where he is shooting the ball better.

I think the biggest problem is that Ray plays too many minutes. If Doc plays him less minutes then maybe he will have more lift on his jumper.

Go Ray...drain the jumper

dboss

[Sam]

The Celtics jumped out to a healthy lead in this one, looking very energetic. They led by 11 after one period, played the following two periods exactly even with the Magic, and got bombed 35-22 in the final quarter.

The problem at the end was pretty simple. Perk and Sheed had accumulated a number of fouls doing a very good job of taking Howard pretty much out of the game. In the fourth quarter, it caught up with them as Van Gundy wisely instituted a two-tower offense, which forced the Celts either to risk Perk and/or Sheed's fouling out or putting in a shorter big for one of them. They kept Perk out for much of the fourth, during which the Magic made a pretty quick comback, spurred largely by Howard's drives and hooks. When they reinserted Perk and, with the score going back and forth in crunch time, they tried doubling Howard. So the Magic went inside-out. First, Redick tossed in an improbable three when Ray was picked and the double team had thinned out the Celtics' perimeter defense. Then Lewis took a pass in the corner, KG lunged at him, and Lewis went right around him for a layup to win the game. A desperation Sheed three with 1.3 left was short.

There's no doubt that KG's limited mobility played a role in the Lewis score, as Kevin is laboring hard to recuperate (he also misfired on a Rondo alley-oop pass).

The main positive in this game was probably Ray's return to shooting form. He hit his first seven shots en route to a 20-point night, including __ threes. Those who claim lack of assists is the Celtics' second half undoing might want to take note of the fact that the Celts had 22 assists for the game, compared with eight for Orlando. The Magic grabbed 17 offensive rebounds. Lately, I've been going back over the game replays and finding that a large proportion of opponents' offensive rebounds are coming while Perk is on the floor. So finding some way to get him extended minutes could only improve this situation, as well as giving Sheed more minutes to gain cohesiveness with the bench. As it was, the Celtics bench outscored the Orlando bench, 41 to 31.

In terms of offensive strengths, the Magic simply went to the bucket a lot more than the Celtics did. In addition to the offensive rebounding diparaty, the advantage of points in the paint went to the Magic, 38-28. The Magic shot 22 more freebies than the Celtics. In the final analysis, the main reason the Celtics stayed as close as they did was their advantage from the three-point line: 12-26, compared with the Magic's 6-20.

Let's hope for better things against the Hawks.

Sam

[Sam]

Since KG’s return, Celtics games has developed a fairly familiar pattern. The Celtics would get out to a good lead, and the other team would make a big comeback. Against two lower-tier teams, the Celts were able to hang on and win. Against two high-level teams, including the Hawks tonight, they could not muster enough at the end.

I claim every game, even a loss, contains some sort of glimmer—a positive factor that can hopefully be a tiny element of a solid foundation of growth leading up to the playoffs. In this one, the glimmer was that, after the Hawks came back from an early nine-point Celtics lead to overpower the Green’s bench in the second quarter and ultimately pull ahead by double digits, it was the Celtics who made a rather stirring comeback in the second half, pulling within a point (after being down by as many as 16). Paul Pierce put them on his shoulders on his way to a 35-point night. Once again, however, even an abbreviated insertion of some bench players was the Celtics’ undoing. The Hawks pulled away again, as Joe Johnson (27) and Jamaal Crawford (28) took turns in ripping them apart down the stretch for a 100-91 Celtics loss.

KG played a stronger game than against the Magic, with 15 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, and some very solid interior defense in his 33
minutes. Down the stretch, he drove for a slam that startled the crowd (which included our own dboss). It may be significant that Paul and KG were the only two Celtics in double figures.

One disappointing note was that, after looking sharp against Orlando, the designated sharpshooters (Ray, Eddie and Sheed) went a combined 6-25, including 2-11 from three-point land.

Perk played only 23 minutes despite never being in foul trouble and collecting 12 rebounds. I’m not sure whether Doc just preferred Sheed (28 minutes, six points, two boards) as an offensive threat or defensive stopper (at which he did a fairly good job). For once, the rebound stats were reasonably even (each team had seven offensive boards, and Atlanta outrebounded the Celts only 32-28 defensively. In fact, statistically, there was no single category in which either team had a truly significant advantage—except the final score and field goal percentage (47.4% Hawks to 41.9% Celtics).

The most memorable comment of Doc’s post-game conference was that he was proud of the team’s resilience on the second night of a
back-to-back. The highlight of Heinsohn’s postgame analysis was how horribly the Celts bench had performed and what a total lack of chemistry they had. He described the task of the starters in compensating for the bench performance as tantamount to trying to pull a
Mack truck up a hill. The starters averaged 35 minutes on the floor (some more, some less, and some spending time with the bench) and averaged a +5 on the +/- scale. The bench averaged 13 minutes on the floor (some more, some less, and Sheed and Tony spending some time with the starters) and averaged a -14 on the +/- scale.

Taking care of the Lakers on Sunday would mean a whole lot right now.

Sam

[steve3344]

Now 6 games behind Cleveland. Time to concede best record in the East I think. Don't see us making up that gap with only 38 games left even with the Cavs PG injuries.

[Sam]

The best record has never mattered to me. The closer a team comes to being able to beat anyone, home or away, by playoff time, the more equipped they'll be to win the championship.

Sam

[jeb]

Sam

I have never been prouder of the boston celtics than i was in the third quarter of last nights game.

[Sam]

Jeb,

That was the glimmer. They have that capability, and that fact can't be denied because it happened—and against a good team at home. Once they have a capability, it becomes an asset that (if the mix of players stays together) can only be added to. It can't disappear as a capability; it simply has to be capitalized upon when needed.

Only the deficiencies can disappear (if the mix of players stays together). And what's required now is to keep working together toward eliminating those deficiencies.

KG's another example. If, in the Hawks game, he looks vigorous and, in the preceding game, he didn't, he has the undeniable capacity for vigor. It's just a matter of recapturing it on a consistent basis. That, too, requires a lot of work over considerable time.

The key to major improvement is time...and hoping that the whole cast of characters now stays together. Working willingly and diligently, over time, as a cohesive unit is the best possible antidote for basketball malaise. I shorten the process to "chemistry," and I know many people think it's overrated, but I guarantee I know what I'm talking about.

And, since the key for the players is time, the key for fans is patience. That seems an unrealistic expectation, so I try not to make a big deal out of it. I guess it's natural for people to want instant gratification. But that's not how truly good basketball works...especially not with new people constantly rejoining the cast.

Sam

[jeb]

Sam

I felt if the Hawks were allowed to dance and strut and wound up winning by 20 the season may have been lost. Is that over dramatic? Prolly. I just wanted THEM to be half as pissed as I was. And they came out suited up to FIGHT in the third.

I dont know if the team can win it. They may BE too old. But i do think THEY feel they can win it with the squad intact. PP really woke up. If one other guy would have just had a decent game (other than ticket) we might well have won.

I hate to make excuses but I think Quis might have been able to slow down crawford.

I said I would look for forward motion and I saw some last night.

[Sam]

Jeb,

That's the spirit! Look for the forward motion. It won't always be at the same speed, and it will sometimes sputter as any
learning process does. And, right now, the place to look closest is the bench. I wonder what's happening in the starters-bench practice
scrimmages. At face value, the starters must be running roughshod over the bench. If not, I'm looking forward to seeing the bench applying some of the lessons they're learning together.

One thing I'm convinced of. If there's to be a designated starter playing with the bench, it's much more productive if it's Ray Allen than if it's Paul Pierce. I believe it's because Ray focuses more on enabling others.

Sam

[bigpygme]

i was glad they got their recent tendency for a 3rd quarter swoon done in the 2nd quarter and came out to play hard in the 3rd. thought we had a crack at em ...

i didn't realize til later the damage done by the inefficiency of the bench, and Sam's +/- makes it clear -- REALLY clear. don't these guys play hard against each other in practice ? i know they must really go at it - a puzzlement as to why the bench hasn't been potent for us lately. welcome as Quis' return will be, it won't solve all that ...

wonder what was happening with Rondo last night - i don't recall seeing so many errant (or telegraphed?) passes in a game. just an off game for him, methinks, and a tough time to have one.

KG - gosh, i sure hate to see the way he's favoring that leg right now. hopefully it just needs to get stronger in game play. hopefully... because i am more and more clear that (with all due respect to the Captain, who was tough last night) KG really is our Ticket to the play-offs.

but there's still time, time to get play-off ready. it's not April yet, sports fans, and there's time to build more teamwork, consistency, defensive intensity and (yes) chemistry !

regards,
Michael

[jeb]

fickelpyg

I think the hawks athleticism and team speed bug Rajon. He is used to being the fastest guy on the floor. Bench will come along specialy Glen. Just need time as a unit. I thought Rondo played scared last nite or at least cautious.

[Sam]

I have thought, all season long, that Sheed is quite possibly the most important single key to the Celtics' fortunes this season. There's
little doubt that he has a significant influence on whatever unit he plays with. The important question is the degree to which it's a
positive versus a negative influence.

I like the +/- stat for evaluating combinations (but NEVER individuals). 82games.com reveals some interesting stats that I like
to amplify by putting them on a per-minute-played basis to put all combinations on equal footing.

When the "regular" starting lineup of Rondo, Ray, Pierce, KG, Perk is on the floor, they average +.29 points per minute over the opposition.

When Wallace subs for Perk and the other four are in there, they average only +.05 points per minute.

When Wallace subs for KG and the other four are in there, they average a relatively poor -.32 points per minute.

The "bench" unit with which Wallace has played most frequently involves Ray, Daniels, Williams and Eddie. That unit averages +.49 points per minute.

I realize that Daniels is not now available and Baby has basically replaced Williams (without enough minutes yet to register on the
82games list). But the pattern of these figures makes me wonder whether Sheed functions best in an environment where he can personally exert greatest impact in terms of both leadership and execution.

This is why I hope there will be increasing emphasis on Sheed's anchoring the bench rather than flitting back and forth between the bench and the starters. If Perk or KG needs a blow, I'd prefer to see either Scal or Williams in there for short periods. Obviously, there will be times and matchups where Sheed will make more sense; but I hope these can be minimized.

For several years, I've been against Doc's preference for the two-unit approach rather than situational substitutions. But he's not going to change his mind now. In that case, I believe it's imperative to develop a bench that can at least hold its own against competing benches and, hopefully, can even gain ground on them. For the bench to learn how to play well with Sheed as the anchor is imperative and will hopefully begin in earnest when Quis returns.

Sam

[bigpygme]

jeb, your comments about Atlanta's athleticism helps make sense to me of Rondo's somewhat "off" play last night. i hope he gains a more complete understanding of his importance and what he can bring, even against teams who also have some fast and quick guys on them. (and i'm only fickle in the Contest ... other than that, i stand where i say i am ! )

Then Sam said in part: "The "bench" unit with which Wallace has played most frequently involves Ray, Daniels, Williams and Eddie. That unit averages +.49 points per minute."
(WOW !!!!)

"I realize that Daniels is not now available and Baby has basically replaced Williams (without enough minutes yet to register on the
82games list). But the pattern of these figures makes me wonder whether Sheed functions best in an environment where he can personally exert greatest impact in terms of both leadership and execution."
very nice stat work and insightful observation ...

i think it's too bad Shelden is tucked away at the end of the bench now, as Glen seemingly can hardly get enough lift to get his feet off the floor (and is getting stuffed as a result), but the point (i think) is the importance of creating a stable second unit that can hold its own, and Sam's post makes Sheed's opportunity to contribute there even more apparent.
Sure do like it when he decides to post up low ...

Michael

[jeb]

your new delta chai name is otter.

I think we got to let Glen play through it. We need him. And I for one think in two weeks we wont even recognize his play.

[spike]

We'll have to watch other athletic teams to see how Rondo copes with them, but it's an excellent point (pun intended).

Rondo's consistently had trouble against the Hawks. He met Bibby when he was still a kid and who knows? maybe Bibby has a way to get into his head a bit, just enough to distract him.

Having Smith and Horford right in his face whenever he approaches the basket can't help at all. One of the great intangibles for Rondo is his ability to play harder when challenged. If we meet the Hawks again this year, it will make me very content.

To give the devil his due, those Hawks can fly. They should have the best record in the league but they don't. They have a serious flaw and it will be their undoing. Meanwhile, they think they have the Celtics number and that's two-thirds of the recipe.

Rondo has a lot more to learn. Tomorrow's another chapter in the continuing saga of How Rajon Adjusts to the Challenge. Can't wait. I still say this was the game they circled back in September.

RED AUERBACH: "It wasn't until his fourth year that I called Cooz the greatest backcourt man I had ever seen. I got ripped for waiting that long, of course, but I had a right to wait. Here was a guy who was still losing the ball more than he should, who could drive with the best of them but needed more work on his outside shot, who still had a little more to learn about defense, who still had a way to go before he could run the whole show."

[jeb]

I think he will eat the Lakers lunch. He is a very competitive cat and takes stuff personal and the lakers have no answer for him.

I think the Hawks rely SOLEY on their considerable athletic talent and iso jumpers and that crap will pucker up in the playoffs. Their body language was waaayyy different at the end of the game last night. But man they got a helluva team.

I was way proud of the Celtics for squaring up on the Hawks the way they did in the third and fourth quarter last night.

[bigpygme]

thx, jeb - the shoe's on de otter foot now !

nice perspective, tyrone (love the whole name), and great timely auerbach quote. i swear i don't know where you guys come up with this stuff - just a looong memory, or access to a secret stash of great stuff !

thanks to all you guys, i'm not feeling so bad about last night's loss anymore. we got work to do, for sure, but we may have the team to do it. jeb is right - atlanta has quite a lot of athleticism and talent. playoff time, we'll see.

can't wait to see how they play tomorrow ... i expect (and hope) we'll see a lot of ALL our bigs. there'll a time and place in this game for Scal and Glen, and Shelden if Doc can remember his name, as well as Sheed, KG and Perk.
(and i will love when Ticket can start moving a little better - i got two bad knees, and it's personally painful to watch him limp through this stuff - OUCH ! )

Michael

[Sam]

Just to moderate any possible over-emphasis on Sheed's work with the bench, we must not forget that something like four or five of the early games during which that stat was compiled were those during which Sheed & Company were hitting every three in sight. Obviously that trend didn't continue. At the time, I was marveling at how quickly the bench had come together as a unit. It seemed to good to be true; and apparently it was. But I do think they have the potential to be a really good, complementary mix.

And, despite the fact that Williams had good early stats (especially off the boards), my guess is that Doc feels Baby's all-around game and chemistry potential represent better upside than Williams'. Doc's clearly aiming for the long term and a championship. That's a truism, but it behooves us to remember and appreciate that every once in a while.

Sam

[Sam]

Because it sometimes takes me some time to write my post-game comments after a game because I have a life, I'm adopting the policy of starting the post-game thread soon after the game and adding my own comments to it when I have the chance. This will give people an opportunity to discuss the game on a thread established for that purpose rather than trying to force-fit such discussions on less appropriate threads.

All I'll say at this point is that many good things happened in this game and that they lost it because they stopped pushing the ball in the last five minutes.

Have fun posting, and I'll contribute later.

Sam

[beat]

Wrote this on the other glimmer thread but concures about the last 5 minutes

we knew goin in today it wasnt goin to be easy street and as much as I wished we'd won wishin and hopein isn't going to change the score. We gave this one away. without lookin it up how many of our final possessions were either turnovers iso or pounding the shot clock down to 5 then a prayer.

At the very least our clear best weapon is young and healthy and really the lakers had no answer to him. He should have gone to the hoop a lot more in the end.

TA really stepped up and played his best game and as much as I love RA he allowed Kobe to get by him too easy to many times yeah he played it about as well as you can on that last play but dang TA "might" have done better I don't know.

Just not a fan of slow ball.

We had a darm 23 point swing in the first half. And although I felt it would be a slower paced second half I still thought we'd at least push the ball up a bit more and try to get some stuff in the paint but we just didn't do it near as much as we should have.

At least we know we are close, but we need to play a whole 48 not 43.

beat.

[Sam]

Beat, I don't know whether there's some strategy involved in slowing it down toward the end or if they're just being tentative, but it doesn't work either way. Rondo's now their most effective penetrator, and maybe he's shy about doing it toward the end for fear of being fouled and missing.

I hate to say this; but, they way Ray and Paul played toward the end, I wouldn't at all have minded seeing Tony in for one or the other for at least two of the last five minutes—with instructions to slash, slash, slash no matter what happened.

Sam

[jeb]

I think it would have been good for Tony. You go to the damn hot hand plus he was giving kobe fits.

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