Westbrook rumor

112288 wrote:What we need is height at center.  At present we are a small team.

THINK BIG!

112288

Don't tell swish that. He says we're set at center. C's don't need a real one until we're really contenders.

MY LIPS ARE SEALED!

LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS..........AND BASKETBALL TEAMS!

LOL

112288

http://nypost.com/2016/07/14/russell-westbrook-in-middle-of-another-celtics-lakers-drama/

Ram wrote:

112288 wrote:What we need is height at center.  At present we are a small team.

THINK BIG!

112288

Don't tell swish that. He says we're set at center. C's don't need a real one until we're really contenders.

Not what I said - see my below statement which I quote.

"I'll stick with my thoughts on this subject and consider the importance of a backup center only if and when this club has the talent to be a legitimate challenger for the ring."

Since he only played 710 minutes last year I think that its a safe to say that Zellers nothing more than a backup center. I would be extremely happy to see a big man like Okafor on the roster.


swish

swish wrote:

Ram wrote:

112288 wrote:What we need is height at center.  At present we are a small team.

THINK BIG!

112288

Don't tell swish that. He says we're set at center. C's don't need a real one until we're really contenders.

 Not what I said - see my below statement which I quote.

   "I'll stick with my thoughts on this subject and consider the importance of a backup center only if and when this club has the talent to be a legitimate challenger for  the ring."

  Since he only played 710 minutes last year I think that its a safe to say that Zellers nothing more than a backup center. I would be extremely happy to see a big man like Okafor on the roster.


  swish

I would not be happy with Okafor on this team at the expense of Brown, Smart or Nets picks. However, I would be happy with Cousins for such assets or Noel for Rozier, Young and the Nets 2018 pick. 

You disagree with Danny and Brad that this team's frontcourt comprised of PF/C hyrid types needs a legit backup center. I just find it odd that you wish to hoard cap space in the unlikely event it will give us some sort of edge at the deadline to sign a bought-out player or consummate a trade that otherwise would not happen.

I believe the difference between having Zeller or Plumlee on 1 year deals in the 6-8 million range is the difference between 2-3 wins this season and maybe the 2nd to 4th seed. You may not want to add a backup big until the team is a legit contender, but I'd rather see us go down in 7 against the Cavs in the Eastern Conference Finals than in 5 in the 2nd rd. I'm sure Danny and Brad feel the same way when they talk about still needing to add a center and a shooter.

Ram wrote:

swish wrote:

Ram wrote:

112288 wrote:What we need is height at center.  At present we are a small team.

THINK BIG!

112288

Don't tell swish that. He says we're set at center. C's don't need a real one until we're really contenders.

 Not what I said - see my below statement which I quote.

   "I'll stick with my thoughts on this subject and consider the importance of a backup center only if and when this club has the talent to be a legitimate challenger for  the ring."

  Since he only played 710 minutes last year I think that its a safe to say that Zellers nothing more than a backup center. I would be extremely happy to see a big man like Okafor on the roster.


  swish

I would not be happy with Okafor on this team at the expense of Brown, Smart or Nets picks. However, I would be happy with Cousins for such assets or Noel for Rozier, Young and the Nets 2018 pick. 

You disagree with Danny and Brad that this team's frontcourt comprised of PF/C hyrid types needs a legit backup center. I just find it odd that you wish to hoard cap space in the unlikely event it will give us some sort of edge at the deadline to sign a bought-out player or consummate a trade that otherwise would not happen.

I believe the difference between having Zeller or Plumlee on 1 year deals in the 6-8 million range is the difference between 2-3 wins this season and maybe the 2nd to 4th seed. You may not want to add a backup big until the team is a legit contender, but I'd rather see us go down in 7 against the Cavs in the Eastern Conference Finals than in 5 in the 2nd rd. I'm sure Danny and Brad feel the same way when they talk about still needing to add a center and a shooter.

"just find it odd that you wish to hoard cap space in the unlikely event it will give us some sort of edge at the deadline to sign a bought-out player or consummate a trade that otherwise would not happen."

In regards to your above statement - I'm sure that your not the only one that thinks that my opinion on this matter is odd - but because I'm not inclined to get excited by moves, during a rebuild, that do not, in my opinion, represent a major improvement towards the Celts being a legitimate contender, I will continue to express my opinions accordingly. I respect your thoughts on this issue and I am sure that you feel likewise towards mine.


swish

swish wrote:
  "just find it odd that you wish to hoard cap space in the unlikely event it will give us some sort of edge at the deadline to sign a bought-out player or consummate a trade that otherwise would not happen."

In regards to your above statement - I'm sure that your not the only one that thinks that my opinion on this matter is odd - but because I'm not inclined to get excited by moves, during a rebuild, that do not, in my opinion, represent a major improvement towards the Celts being a legitimate contender, I will continue to express my opinions accordingly. I respect your thoughts on this issue and I am sure that you feel likewise towards mine.


 swish

Indeed. I would be interested in hearing from any others on this board who feel that hoarding 7-8 million in cap space until at least the deadline, assuming it will be more beneficial then (when the season in 2/3 complete) over entering the season with a legit backup center and the 3.6 million room exception AND having a better shot at the #2 seed is a wiser course of action for this team.

It would be one thing if Ainge came right out and mentioned the value of holding onto some cap space. Yet his comments so far show he does not value it above adding a legit backup center and a shooter. Why would be maintain a cap hold of 6-7 million on Zeller (allowing him to match any offer for him, even one that exceeds our 8 million or so in space) and also mention that the team still needs to add a shooter?

Like Sully....Zeller is old news. He showed some early promise the first year but he is not a physical center so why waste money on him. He serves no purpose.


112288

Ram wrote:

swish wrote:
  "just find it odd that you wish to hoard cap space in the unlikely event it will give us some sort of edge at the deadline to sign a bought-out player or consummate a trade that otherwise would not happen."

In regards to your above statement - I'm sure that your not the only one that thinks that my opinion on this matter is odd - but because I'm not inclined to get excited by moves, during a rebuild, that do not, in my opinion, represent a major improvement towards the Celts being a legitimate contender, I will continue to express my opinions accordingly. I respect your thoughts on this issue and I am sure that you feel likewise towards mine.


 swish

Indeed. I would be interested in hearing from any others on this board who feel that hoarding 7-8 million in cap space until at least the deadline, assuming it will be more beneficial then (when the season in 2/3 complete) over entering the season with a legit backup center and the 3.6 million room exception AND having a better shot at the #2 seed is a wiser course of action for this team.

It would be one thing if Ainge came right out and mentioned the value of holding onto some cap space. Yet his comments so far show he does not value it above adding a legit backup center and a shooter. Why would be maintain a cap hold of 6-7 million on Zeller (allowing him to match any offer for him, even one that exceeds our 8 million or so in space) and also mention that the team still needs to add a shooter?

Good luck with your poll

swish

swish wrote:
  Good luck with your poll

  swish

Thanks!

I kinda already had one. It was a thread called Zeller or Plumlee. I should have added "another yet unknown center" to the options. So far it would be:

Zeller - 3 (Ainge, dboss, wideclyde, Rosalie)

Plumlee - 2.5 (NYCelt, Ram, Kdp)

Another Yet Unknown Center - 3 (Ainge, Stevens, Rosalie, Ram, 112288)

Cap Space - 1.5 (swish, 112288)

Hey

.5 for both cap space and .5 for another center

112288

112288 wrote:Hey

.5 for both cap space and .5 for another center

112288

Sounds good

I changed Ainge from 1 full vote for "unknown center" to split vote with Zeller since he is the man keeping his cap hold and having the qualifying offer on the table.

Ram wrote:

swish wrote:
  Good luck with your poll

  swish

Thanks!

I kinda already had one. It was a thread called Zeller or Plumlee. I should have added "another yet unknown center" to the options. So far it would be:

Zeller - 2.5 (dboss, wideclycde, Rosalie)

Plumlee - 2.5 (NYCelt, Ram, Kdp)

Another Yet Unknown Center - 3 (Ainge, Stevens, Rosalie, Ram)

Cap Space - 1 (swish)

Well that does it - even though cap space was not an option for the others to consider, I concede that my opinion is not a popular one, but we can revisit this thread next year to see just how the year played out. But you should add me to the list of "yet unknown Center" as long as its a player with per game minutes of at least 25. You know - A center with starter Qualities like Okafor ( who I mentioned earlier). Now there's a player that could be difference maker in the near future - and all wrapped up at a bargain price average of about 5.4 mil over the next 3 years. That wraps it up for me. On to the next topic.



swish

The four options are for backup center only. 

I personally want Cousins with Noel as a plan B, but those are season-changing major roster movement type moves. I was talking about what should they do as far as the 4th or 5th big man, who will only be playing 8-14 minutes a game and costing less than their current cap space but will be a real center and not a hybrid. 

112288 agreed with you on cap space over Zeller or Plumlee. I haven't heard from half the board yet on this discussion so it isn't like a super unpopular choice. I just felt that with how adamant Ainge and Stevens were about needing a legit center and "not being done" that just hoarding their cap space and not caring to shore up an area of weakness before the season starts (when they are planning to be a top 2-3 team in the east and 6-7 in the league) isn't the ideal move.

swish wrote:
Well that does it - even though cap space was not an option for the others to consider, I concede that my opinion is not a popular one, but we can revisit this thread next year to see just how the year played out.  But you should add me to the list of "yet unknown Center" as long  as its a  player with per game minutes of at least 25. You know -  A center with starter Qualities like Okafor ( who I mentioned earlier). Now there's a player that could be difference maker in the near future - and all wrapped up at a bargain price average of about 5.4 mil over the next 3 years.  That wraps it up for me. On to the next topic.

swish

The winner is... Zeller!

Can't argue with Ainge here. Why hoard 8m in cap space when you can add a decent backup center like Zeller for less than market value on a one year deal to a roster without a legit center?

Zeller gets more than double his QO of 3.7 million, but gives up the no-trade clause playing on that one year tender would have come with. The team gets an expiring contract with a team option that allows them to keep max space next summer and also the ability to include Zeller in any big trade by the deadline OR at the draft. 

When Plumlee gets 4/52 this deal looks GREAT

Yet it is essentially the same one Ezeli got in Portland and I would take Festus over Zeller every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Ainge spent a few weeks working the phone, trying to be creative, trying to do something big and once again came up short. The cost of holding out for the unlikely opportunity to trade for Griffin or Westbrook might have been the difference between having Ezeli over Zeller. Oh well.

Poor Leon, leave him alone! Let him have the glory of wearing that number, it was the best year of his shortened career!

Seriously, Russell Westbrook has built himself a following. I am not one of them. He drives me nuts. All I can think of is Rondo pounding that ball at the top of the key, refusing to give it up until there wee 5 seconds left on the 24 second clock and then passing it off for a desperation shot. The only difference here is that Westbrook holds the ball all that time for himself. Why do you think there are those rumors about Durant not liking to play with him anymore. How many times did Westbrook blow KD off and shoot the ball himself.

He is a talented guy with a massive ego. Keep him out west where he can tick off some other team.

Signing Zeller was to package him in a trade move if the Celtics go for a center. the team in the trade will want some center man back as a backup.

It is a short 1 year maybe 2 year deal so any team can rent him for 1 year and then not pick up the team option on him.

112288


112288

112288 wrote:Signing Zeller was to package him in a trade move if the Celtics go for a center.  the team in the trade will want some center man back as a backup.

It is a short 1 year maybe 2 year deal so any team can rent him for 1 year and then not pick up the team option on him.

112288


112288

No trades for free agent signees until December 15th. It could just be the Zeller signing is just for his services this season and cap flexibility next season. Sort of a repeat of the Amir contract last summer.

gyso

JUST REPEATING WHAT I READ ON CSNNE AND WEEI ARTICLES ABOUT PACKAGING PLAYERS FOR TRADES.

112288

gyso wrote:

112288 wrote:Signing Zeller was to package him in a trade move if the Celtics go for a center.  the team in the trade will want some center man back as a backup.

It is a short 1 year maybe 2 year deal so any team can rent him for 1 year and then not pick up the team option on him.

112288


112288

No trades for free agent signees until December 15th.  It could just be the Zeller signing is just for his services this season and cap flexibility next season.  Sort of a repeat of the Amir contract last summer.

gyso

gyso

Does it make a difference between restricted and unrestricted?

Dboss

dboss wrote:

gyso

Does it make a difference between restricted and unrestricted?

Dboss

I don't think there is any difference.  Here is the answer from Coon, Larry (2012); "NBA Salary Cap/Collective Bargaining Agreement FAQ"

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q95

95. When can a team trade a free agent it signs? Do they have to keep him forever?

Generally a team only has to keep a player for three months after signing a contract or December 15 (1) of that season, whichever is later. This does not apply to draft picks, who can be traded 30 days after signing (even if signed using cap room in a later season -- see question number 51). For sign-and-trade transactions, the initial trade which completes the sign-and-trade obviously is allowed, even though it occurs right after the player is signed. The trade restriction in a sign-and-trade applies to the first subsequent trade.

See question number 100 for more information on trade restrictions.


(1) January 15 if the player is a Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent, re-signs with his prior team, his team is over the cap, and he receives a raise greater than 20% in the first season of his contract, and his new salary is greater than the minimum salary.



There is a difference if the player is a LB or EB free agent.  That date is January 15.  See (1) in bold above.

gyso

gyso

It sounds like in a sign and trade situation the Celtics would not have to wait until December

Has Zeller actually signed the contract yet?

dboss

dboss wrote:gyso

It sounds like in a sign and trade situation the Celtics would not have to wait until December

Has Zeller actually signed the contract yet?

dboss

I believe he has signed. Too late for a S&T.

But is it too early for a G&T?