Weight training in the modern NBA.

Below link details the increasing popularity of weight training in the NBA over the last 30 or so years. The article was written on June 6th 2001.

      http://articles.philly.com/2001-06-06/sports/25324953_1_weight-training-strength-training-weight-room

       Below are the average league weights for players, based on data I took from BASKETBALL REFERENCE . COM.   Its for those players (BIGS) who play center or center forward or forward center.  Each player played at least 600 minutes for the season.

  Average player weight for:
     
      1956-57 = 214.4 (lbs)   (Russell's first year)
      1965-66 = 224.5
      1975-76 = 219.8
      1985-86 = 230.0
      1995-96 = 238.4
      2007-08 = 252.6      
      2015-16 = 252.0
57, 66, 76, 86 and 08 - All championship years for the Celts

  The 50's, 60's, 70's - now that was the small ball era.

  swish

Swish,

That increased size and strength may be why so many basketball forwards have also had football experience playing tight end somewhere along the way. Same body type and athletic attributes are needed; size, speed, strength and hands. From high school on up, many tight ends play or have played forward positions on the hard-court, and may be among the best overall athletes on their teams. NE fans may want to consider bringing Gronk in to TD Garden for a workout; that might toughen the Celtics up in the paint!

Regards

NYCelt wrote:Swish,

That increased size and strength may be why so many basketball forwards have also had football experience playing tight end somewhere along the way.  Same body type and athletic attributes are needed; size, speed, strength and hands.  From high school on up, many tight ends play or have played forward positions on the hard-court, and may be among the best overall athletes on their teams.  NE fans may want to consider bringing Gronk in to TD Garden for a workout; that might toughen the Celtics up in the paint!

          Haha, or get  KO AH or TZ killed, NYC

The increased importance of weight training for basketball players has especially made the game so, so much quicker and faster. The total poundage differences have not been very much since 1986 and 2016.

The strength gains have also been responsible for very much of the vertical height that so many players all seem to have now when in 1986 the players certainly did not seem, to me, to be able to jump so high..

Every team now (even the college squads) all have strength coaches and assistant strength coaches and the results can certainly be seen when comparing the chest, shoulders and arms of a Bird, McHale and Parish to even a rookie like Jaylen Brown.

wideclyde wrote:The increased importance of weight training for basketball players has especially made the game so, so much quicker and faster.  The total poundage differences have not been very much since 1986 and 2016.

The strength gains have also been responsible for very much of the vertical height that so many players all seem to have now when in 1986 the players certainly did not seem, to me, to be able to jump so high..

Every team now (even the college squads) all have strength coaches and assistant strength coaches and the results can certainly be seen when comparing the chest, shoulders and arms of a Bird, McHale and Parish to even a rookie like Jaylen Brown.

wideclyde,
Your statement below.
"The total poundage differences have not been very much since 1986 and 2016."

From 1985-86 to 2007-08 (23 years) the weight for centers and power forwards increased by 22.6 lbs. Isn't that rather significant?


swish

Jaylen Brown said he benches 250.

My high school weight room coach was the ORL Magic assistant strength coach the year before, which was Shaq's rookie year. This guy questioned his decision to quit and get his master's degree when the Magic went to the Finals that year.

Anyway, he said Shaq never, ever lifted weights as a rookie. He didn't need to.

But this guy tended to over-work athletes, and the regular school trainer noted that it wasn't a coincidence all these guys were getting hurt. An over-zealous strength coach can push things too far, especially in the middle of a basketball season when rest is important.

Jaylen is naturally strong, an all time great athletic specimen. 5% body fat at that size is crazy. I'm sure his work in the weight room helps, but Bird would never look like that if he had been a weight trainer.

arambone,

I'm pretty sure the only weightlifting Bird was doing was 12 oz curls!

Regards

swish wrote:

wideclyde wrote:The increased importance of weight training for basketball players has especially made the game so, so much quicker and faster.  The total poundage differences have not been very much since 1986 and 2016.

The strength gains have also been responsible for very much of the vertical height that so many players all seem to have now when in 1986 the players certainly did not seem, to me, to be able to jump so high..

Every team now (even the college squads) all have strength coaches and assistant strength coaches and the results can certainly be seen when comparing the chest, shoulders and arms of a Bird, McHale and Parish to even a rookie like Jaylen Brown.

      wideclyde,
         Your statement below.
 "The total poundage differences have not been very much since 1986 and 2016."

From 1985-86 to 2007-08 (23 years) the weight for centers and power forwards increased by 22.6 lbs. Isn't that rather significant?


  swish

Not really. It is a change of 8-9%. It's been pretty well-documented that larger people are groomed from a young age to be athletes at a much higher rate in the 21st century than in the 20th.

Also, with the US population relying so heavily on GMO and hormone filled food since the 1970's it would not surprise me if the average height and weight of EVERY American male had increased by similar %'s from the 70's to today.

Ram wrote:Americans are growing up and out, according to a new report on changes in height and weight since 1960.
Both men and women in the United States are roughly an inch taller and 25 pounds heavier than they were in 1960, the study concludes.
http://www.livescience.com/49-decade-study-americans-taller-fatter.html

So true in 1960 I was about 5 feet tall and weighed about 100.


Now 56 years later I'm a foot taller and well over twice as heavy.

beat

Ram wrote:Americans are growing up and out, according to a new report on changes in height and weight since 1960.
Both men and women in the United States are roughly an inch taller and 25 pounds heavier than they were in 1960, the study concludes.
http://www.livescience.com/49-decade-study-americans-taller-fatter.html

Ram,

1": 25# is NOT a good height-to-weight ratio.



bob

bobheckler wrote:

Ram wrote:Americans are growing up and out, according to a new report on changes in height and weight since 1960.
Both men and women in the United States are roughly an inch taller and 25 pounds heavier than they were in 1960, the study concludes.
http://www.livescience.com/49-decade-study-americans-taller-fatter.html

Ram,

1": 25# is NOT a good height-to-weight ratio.

bob

Of course it isn't. 

I was just making the point that the average American is taller and heavier now than in 1960. This isn't a trend that it isolated to professional sports because of weight training. 

Yes, technology and knowledge of nutrition and exercise has improved greatly since then. And the average NBA player carries more muscle than those from decades past. But our entire country is also saturated with horrible non-organic foods, processed foods and foods filled with fake sugars and chemicals that are bad for your health and have caused an obesity epidemic in this country. There are dozens of guys like Big Baby and Sully dating back to the 80's/90's who make those average weight #'s for bigs skyrocket. Shaq was the same height as Wilt (the stilt) and was way fatter than he should have been the last 10-12 years of his career.  

My dad is 5'11" and was 145 lbs age 18 in 1971 and around 170lbs in his 30's in the 1980's. He's now 63 and weighs 185. I'm 6'1" and was 185lbs at age 18 in 2001 and looked GREAT. Could dunk a basketball and run a 6:00 mile. I am 205 lbs now and would definitely be well served to drop 25lbs of fat and add 10lbs of muscle, 190 would be ideal for me, but my Doc shows me charts that say 175-180 is what I should weigh. I don't look fat, weigh less than most of the guys my age who are taller than 5'10" and have about 17% body fat, which is right below the 18-20% marks where you start to be considered overweight (26-28% body fat makes you obese). The point is, I'm a slightly above average adult American male and 40 years ago would probably have weighed 20-25 lbs less by doing no more or no less exercise than I do now. It is mostly about the shit foods that have changed the metabolisms and body structures of all Americans and only has a little to do with improved weight training and the fact that we all average an extra inch in height.

Ram wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

Ram wrote:Americans are growing up and out, according to a new report on changes in height and weight since 1960.
Both men and women in the United States are roughly an inch taller and 25 pounds heavier than they were in 1960, the study concludes.
http://www.livescience.com/49-decade-study-americans-taller-fatter.html

Ram,

1": 25# is NOT a good height-to-weight ratio.

bob

Of course it isn't. 

I was just making the point that the average American is taller and heavier now than in 1960. This isn't a trend that it isolated to professional sports because of weight training. 

Yes, technology and knowledge of nutrition and exercise has improved greatly since then. And the average NBA player carries more muscle than those from decades past. But our entire country is also saturated with horrible non-organic foods, processed foods and foods filled with fake sugars and chemicals that are bad for your health and have caused an obesity epidemic in this country. There are dozens of guys like Big Baby and Sully dating back to the 80's/90's who make those average weight #'s for bigs skyrocket. Shaq was the same height as Wilt (the stilt) and was way fatter than he should have been the last 10-12 years of his career.  

My dad is 5'11" and was 145 lbs age 18 in 1971 and around 170lbs in his 30's in the 1980's. He's now 63 and weighs 185. I'm 6'1" and was 185lbs at age 18 in 2001 and looked GREAT. Could dunk a basketball and run a 6:00 mile. I am 205 lbs now and would definitely be well served to drop 25lbs of fat and add 10lbs of muscle, 190 would be ideal for me, but my Doc shows me charts that say 175-180 is what I should weigh. I don't look fat, weigh less than most of the guys my age who are taller than 5'10" and have about 17% body fat, which is right below the 18-20% marks where you start to be considered overweight (26-28% body fat makes you obese). The point is, I'm a slightly above average adult American male and 40 years ago would probably have weighed 20-25 lbs less by doing no more or no less exercise than I do now. It is mostly about the shit foods that have changed the metabolisms and body structures of all Americans and only has a little to do with improved weight training and the fact that we all average an extra inch in height.

Your right - Nutrition has played a role in the added weights of the modern athlete. Are there any medical documents available that critique the relative significance of diet vs weight training ?

swish

Not sure what you mean. Diet and weight training/exercise go hand in hand regardless of whether you are an athlete or not. 

You see a lot of these kids who come up weighing 180lbs and can't bench 225 once and know they'll need to get on a program of both diet and weight training. Then you have someone like Shaq who could bench 400 lbs but was also 75 lbs overweight. 

Have to find that balance.

Swish,

There is no question that the players are heavier than in the past, but I just did not think that a one pound per year increase (22+ pounds over a 23 year time span) was a significant difference.

But,the weight training has definitely changed the speed and quickness of the overall NBA game.

wideclyde wrote:Swish,

There is no question that the players are heavier than in the past, but I just did not think that a one pound per year increase (22+ pounds over a 23 year time span) was a significant difference.

But,the weight training has definitely changed the speed and quickness of the overall NBA game.

On a year to year basis a 15.7 ounce increase is probably of little consequence - but when parlayed out over multiple decades would certainly have a huge impact on the game. How about this weight difference.The league in 1975-76 = 219.8 lbs average per player vs 2007-08 (33 years later) 252.6 ave per player - a difference of 32.8 lbs per player. In my opinion a huge disadvantage for the teams of the mid 70's.
When pointing out the speed and quickness of the modern game don't forget the race factor - From virtually an all white league in the 50's to a league that has seen a gradual change over to black players to the point that this past year has seen the role of the white USA player, under 6'8" ( the speed positions), reduced to 3.9 % of the players.

swish

swish wrote:

wideclyde wrote:Swish,

There is no question that the players are heavier than in the past, but I just did not think that a one pound per year increase (22+ pounds over a 23 year time span) was a significant difference.

But,the weight training has definitely changed the speed and quickness of the overall NBA game.

On a year to year basis a 15.7 ounce increase is probably of little consequence - but when parlayed out over multiple decades would certainly have a huge impact on the game.   How about this weight difference.The league in 1975-76 = 219.8 lbs average per player vs 2007-08 (33 years later) 252.6 ave per player - a difference of 32.8 lbs per player. In my opinion a huge disadvantage for the teams of the mid 70's.
   When pointing out the speed and quickness of the modern game don't forget the race factor -  From virtually an all white league in the 50's to a league that has seen a gradual change over to black players to the point that this past year has seen the role of the white USA player, under 6'8" ( the speed positions), reduced to 3.9 % of the players.

swish

The Celts were champs in both 1975-76 and 2007-08. Here's a weight comparison at the center and power forward positions.

     1976 champs----- Cowens - 230, Kuberski - 215, Silas - 220, Ard - 215 --- ave =217.5
     2008 champs----- Perkins - 270, Powe - 240, Garnett - 240, Davis - 289 --- ave =259.8

     Swish

Change to above - Add Posey to 2008 Celtics - 215 lbs - change ave to 250.8 lbs

swish

Swish

Gotta believe Davis was a lot more than 289.

beat

swish wrote:

swish wrote:

wideclyde wrote:Swish,

There is no question that the players are heavier than in the past, but I just did not think that a one pound per year increase (22+ pounds over a 23 year time span) was a significant difference.

But,the weight training has definitely changed the speed and quickness of the overall NBA game.

On a year to year basis a 15.7 ounce increase is probably of little consequence - but when parlayed out over multiple decades would certainly have a huge impact on the game.   How about this weight difference.The league in 1975-76 = 219.8 lbs average per player vs 2007-08 (33 years later) 252.6 ave per player - a difference of 32.8 lbs per player. In my opinion a huge disadvantage for the teams of the mid 70's.
   When pointing out the speed and quickness of the modern game don't forget the race factor -  From virtually an all white league in the 50's to a league that has seen a gradual change over to black players to the point that this past year has seen the role of the white USA player, under 6'8" ( the speed positions), reduced to 3.9 % of the players.

swish

The Celts were champs in both 1975-76 and 2007-08. Here's a weight comparison at the center and power forward positions.

     1976 champs----- Cowens - 230, Kuberski - 215, Silas - 220, Ard - 215 --- ave =217.5
     2008 champs----- Perkins - 270, Powe - 240, Garnett - 240, Davis - 289 --- ave =259.8

     Swish

Change to above - Add Posey to 2008 Celtics - 215 lbs - change ave to 250.8 lbs

  swish

Just the point I was making above. Posey and Silas = same height and Silas 5 lbs heavier. Pierce had 1-2" and 12-16lbs on Hondo. KG had just 10 lbs on Cowens with his extra 3" of height? 

It is guys like Big Baby and Perkins who tip the scales. Every roster these days has a fatty. 

Everyone else at all other positions are like 1-3" taller and 5-20 lbs heavier than in the 60's/70's, which lines right up with the overall changes in all Americans and is mostly diet related.

Ram wrote:

swish wrote:

swish wrote:

wideclyde wrote:Swish,

There is no question that the players are heavier than in the past, but I just did not think that a one pound per year increase (22+ pounds over a 23 year time span) was a significant difference.

But,the weight training has definitely changed the speed and quickness of the overall NBA game.

On a year to year basis a 15.7 ounce increase is probably of little consequence - but when parlayed out over multiple decades would certainly have a huge impact on the game.   How about this weight difference.The league in 1975-76 = 219.8 lbs average per player vs 2007-08 (33 years later) 252.6 ave per player - a difference of 32.8 lbs per player. In my opinion a huge disadvantage for the teams of the mid 70's.
   When pointing out the speed and quickness of the modern game don't forget the race factor -  From virtually an all white league in the 50's to a league that has seen a gradual change over to black players to the point that this past year has seen the role of the white USA player, under 6'8" ( the speed positions), reduced to 3.9 % of the players.

swish

The Celts were champs in both 1975-76 and 2007-08. Here's a weight comparison at the center and power forward positions.

     1976 champs----- Cowens - 230, Kuberski - 215, Silas - 220, Ard - 215 --- ave =217.5
     2008 champs----- Perkins - 270, Powe - 240, Garnett - 240, Davis - 289 --- ave =259.8

     Swish

Change to above - Add Posey to 2008 Celtics - 215 lbs - change ave to 250.8 lbs

  swish

Just the point I was making above. Posey and Silas = same height and Silas 5 lbs heavier. Pierce had 1-2" and 12-16lbs on Hondo. KG had just 10 lbs on Cowens with his extra 3" of height? 

It is guys like Big Baby and Perkins who tip the scales. Every roster these days has a fatty. 

Everyone else at all other positions are like 1-3" taller and 5-20 lbs heavier than in the 60's/70's, which lines right up with the overall changes in all Americans and is mostly diet related.

I don't have a clue as to the the percentage of weight gain, by these players under discussion, that can be attributed to diet vs weight training. Perhaps you can supply them for me. Thanks

swish

swish wrote:

Ram wrote:

swish wrote:

swish wrote:

wideclyde wrote:Swish,

There is no question that the players are heavier than in the past, but I just did not think that a one pound per year increase (22+ pounds over a 23 year time span) was a significant difference.

But,the weight training has definitely changed the speed and quickness of the overall NBA game.

On a year to year basis a 15.7 ounce increase is probably of little consequence - but when parlayed out over multiple decades would certainly have a huge impact on the game.   How about this weight difference.The league in 1975-76 = 219.8 lbs average per player vs 2007-08 (33 years later) 252.6 ave per player - a difference of 32.8 lbs per player. In my opinion a huge disadvantage for the teams of the mid 70's.
   When pointing out the speed and quickness of the modern game don't forget the race factor -  From virtually an all white league in the 50's to a league that has seen a gradual change over to black players to the point that this past year has seen the role of the white USA player, under 6'8" ( the speed positions), reduced to 3.9 % of the players.

swish

The Celts were champs in both 1975-76 and 2007-08. Here's a weight comparison at the center and power forward positions.

     1976 champs----- Cowens - 230, Kuberski - 215, Silas - 220, Ard - 215 --- ave =217.5
     2008 champs----- Perkins - 270, Powe - 240, Garnett - 240, Davis - 289 --- ave =259.8

     Swish

Change to above - Add Posey to 2008 Celtics - 215 lbs - change ave to 250.8 lbs

  swish

Just the point I was making above. Posey and Silas = same height and Silas 5 lbs heavier. Pierce had 1-2" and 12-16lbs on Hondo. KG had just 10 lbs on Cowens with his extra 3" of height? 

It is guys like Big Baby and Perkins who tip the scales. Every roster these days has a fatty. 

Everyone else at all other positions are like 1-3" taller and 5-20 lbs heavier than in the 60's/70's, which lines right up with the overall changes in all Americans and is mostly diet related.

I don't have a clue as to the the percentage of weight gain, by these players under discussion, that can be attributed to diet vs weight training. Perhaps you can supply them for me. Thanks

 swish

I don't really get what you are asking for?

I'm saying it would appear that the majority of players on a roster are 1-3" and 5-20lbs heavier than they were 30-50 years ago. Just like the majority of American people. This is something that is likely a combination of diet, weight-training, substance/supplement and other related factors. 

It is pretty well known that someone like LeBron took HGH and/or steroids. Someone like Hondo could run all day with a heart 20% larger than the average person's and didn't have to hit the gym like crazy. Guys like Pierce and Perk were chubby kids likely subjected to the processed crap and GMO foods that our government began pushing on EVERYONE (especially kids) starting in the late 70's/early 80's. Someone like KG was skinnier than Cowens as a teen despite being 3" taller and if he came up in 1956 instead of 1996 he could have stayed 220 like Russ but instead added 20-30lbs of muscle with modern weight training and legal supplements to bulk up from 210 to 240 and pass Cowens weight as a pro. Someone like Glen Davis was one of the large % of obese Americans who became that way as a kid and could never recover. Something all too common in the 90's and uncommon in the 60's. 

Saying all modern NBA players are freak athletes and full of muscle that guys in the 60's and 70's could only dream of and that is 100% due to amazing advances in weight training technology is a blanket statement I disagree with strongly. 

It is much more likely that the modern NBA player grew up FAR unhealthier and heavier than the pre 1990's player based on the horrible diets that Americans were subjected to. Some players shed the fat and added muscle. Some stayed a little fat and added muscle. Some did it through hard work only and some through sketchy products that cheated the natural process and weren't available in the 60's/70's. Some stayed VERY fat like Baby and Sully and these players make the overall average weights of guys from 30-50 years ago larger than the reality would suggest. While every American is taller/larger on average, you cannot credit one thing with being the main reason, and if you did, I'd say it is the crappy diet most in our country are subjected to over advances in weight training. 

I think I've typed enough on the topic using common knowledge most Americans should be aware of to not have to complete a homework assignment finding articles and citing more stats than we both have done already.

This might be one of the many times there is good evidence to back up opposite sides of a debate.

The average American has gotten taller and, unfortunately, there exists what has been referred to as an epidemic of obese Americans.  Way too much data on that one to dispute, and a reminder that I need to leave time to get to the gym today!

Nutrition and conditioning, however, has also had a major positive effect on sports.  This is true not only at the elite professional level of athletics, but all the way down to high school and youth sports.  A good part of the CE I'm required to do to maintain my coaching certification through the State University of NY deals with this topic and it is quite a contrast today versus just a decade ago.

Technology also plays a part in the advancement of athletic performance, both through research and performance analysis, as well as major equipment advances in most every sport.  That one is a whole 'nother topic, however!

Regards

I came to a realization on my run this morning. I have been saying for a few years now that if I could lose another 30lbs (I've already lost 50 in the past few years since I started running again) I could approach my "glory dayz" from high school. Seeing kids from the local Pueblo HS out this morning I realized that I am still 50 lbs heavier than I was back in 1965. I weighed about 135 then and weigh about 185 now. I am 5'9". My PR for a 5K is 17:56 and now its 30:16. (OMPR or OldeMansPersonalRecord) Diet and nutrition, nutrition and diet. Those are my keys now more than more miles. I need to lose this weight.

One thing that hasn't been adequately addressed in this discussion, in my opinion, is that there are a lot more injuries now that I attribute directly to weight training. There are always more than two sides to every question. I'm just glad that I am in good enuf shape to do what I do. round is a shape, right? lol

mulcogi,

That's some serious progress; congratulations and keep going!

Regards

mulcogiseng wrote:I came to a realization on my run this morning. I have been saying for a few years now that if I could lose another 30lbs (I've already lost 50 in the past few years since I started running again) I could approach my "glory dayz" from high school. Seeing kids from the local Pueblo HS out this morning I realized that I am still 50 lbs heavier than I was back in 1965. I weighed about 135 then and weigh about 185 now. I am 5'9". My PR for a 5K is 17:56 and now its 30:16. (OMPR or OldeMansPersonalRecord)  Diet and nutrition, nutrition and diet. Those are my keys now more than more miles. I need to lose this weight.

One thing that hasn't been adequately addressed in this discussion, in my opinion, is that there are a lot more injuries now that I attribute directly to weight training. There are always more than two sides to every question. I'm just glad that I am in good enuf shape to do what I do. round is a shape, right? lol

"One thing that hasn't been adequately addressed in this discussion, in my opinion, is that there are a lot more injuries now that I attribute directly to weight training. There are always more than two sides to every question. I'm just glad that I am in good enuf shape to do what I do. round is a shape, right? lol"

If your above statement about more injuries is accurate - then the cause could very well be attributed to added weigh - especially joint injuries. The ligaments and tendons are the human equivalent of the hinges on a door. Added weight on a human frame - designed with ligaments and tendons to handle a given weight - could have the same effect on its joints as trying to stabilize a passage door with cabinet hinges.

swish