Noel not happy.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20160926_Nerlens_Noel__Sixers_situation__doesn_t_make_any_sense_.html


time for Danny to make this deal?

Amir and Young ( or Hunter) for Noel, I say.

Philly has a cap room to take on the additional salary and Amir would be a piece they can move during the season, if need be.

Noel gives us a younger Amir Johnson who we control as a RFA next season.

might be time to get it done, Danny.

kdp59 wrote:http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20160926_Nerlens_Noel__Sixers_situation__doesn_t_make_any_sense_.html


time for Danny to make this deal?

Amir and Young ( or Hunter) for Noel, I say.

Philly has a cap room to take on the additional salary and Amir would be a piece they can move during the season, if need be.

Noel gives us a younger Amir Johnson  who we control as a RFA next season.

might be time to get it done, Danny.

Kdp,

I sincerely doubt Philly would take that deal, as much as I wish they would.

1.  Amir's contract expires this year.  He will be an unrestricted free agent.  If they want him they can get him next year and give up no assets to do it.

2.  Young is a bust, and everybody knows it.

3.  Hunter isn't big enough bait and Philly doesn't need to get younger.

No, I think we'd have to offer Smart, and I am not willing to do that.  

Besides, Noel will be a free agent next summer too.  Why give up anybody we like when we can get him straight up?

I counsel patience.  Every week that goes by brings Colangelo one week closer to the trade deadline and my bet is that a deal can be made then because after that Philly's power and control drops way down to where their only resort is a sign-and-trade.  With the cap still going up those are not as necessary.


bob


..

Come on, the reason a deal has not been made is because Danny does not want to give up who the Sixers want. They want Smart first, Bradley second. Rozier is unproven, Young if virtually gone, and Hunter is a huge question mark. They would probably trade Amir, but something else has to go along with him.

There is a reason why this trade has not gone down. They have put a large value on Noel. i think he would be a good piece, but I hate giving them either of those two guys, Potentiaal DPOY and another one busting at the seems to become a STAR. I just do not want to give these guys up for Noel.

I'm predicting Smart will have a breakout year....hes already best 6'4" defender in the league.

deleted due to being redundant.

another thought on Noel here, though I HATE this trade idea.

Getting Noel fills the perceived shot blocking problem we have, Kelly is our BEST 3 point shooter (another weakness) .

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/9/27/13061368/nba-boston-celtics-nerlens-noel-for-kelly-olynyk

kdp59 wrote:http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20160926_Nerlens_Noel__Sixers_situation__doesn_t_make_any_sense_.html


time for Danny to make this deal?

Amir and Young ( or Hunter) for Noel, I say.

Philly has a cap room to take on the additional salary and Amir would be a piece they can move during the season, if need be.

Noel gives us a younger Amir Johnson  who we control as a RFA next season.

might be time to get it done, Danny.

This proposal isn't close to reality.
Why would Philly trade Noel and take back another center?
They need help in the backcourt.

tjmakz wrote:

kdp59 wrote:http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20160926_Nerlens_Noel__Sixers_situation__doesn_t_make_any_sense_.html


time for Danny to make this deal?

Amir and Young ( or Hunter) for Noel, I say.

Philly has a cap room to take on the additional salary and Amir would be a piece they can move during the season, if need be.

Noel gives us a younger Amir Johnson  who we control as a RFA next season.

might be time to get it done, Danny.

This proposal isn't close to reality.
Why would Philly trade Noel and take back another center?
They need help in the backcourt.

TJ,

Yes they need back court help but their problem is not that they have too many 7'ers, it's that all of their 7'ers need to be in the paint to be effective. Kelly would open the floor for the other 2.


bob


.

12/17/16


6 hours ago – via ESPN

Noel, who made his season debut Sunday after recovering from offseason knee surgery only to sprain his left ankle and miss Wednesday’s game, had two points in eight minutes against the Lakers. Afterward, he aired his frustration. “I think I’m too good to be playing eight minutes,” said Noel, the No. 6 pick in the 2013 draft. “That’s crazy. Need to figure this s— out.”



bob



.

No matter who the Celtics try to make a deal with, we will lose one of our young backcourt players. The story yesterday from Wojo is that th GM's around the league have figured DA out. They feel he puts a high value on the players other teams covet.

My biggest problem is, not matter who gets traded from the Celtics, we are going to lose a future terrific ballplayer. For years they have been after Bradley. He will be up for contract in a year or two and will command big money. IT has already said that he wants them to back up the Brinks truck for him!! Rozier is up and coming, an exciting young player, do we really walnt to let him go? Another year under his belt and he will be one heck of a ballplayer.

Noel would be a decent fit here but KO would have to go I think and unless it is a three way trade, Philly is not going to bite. This is an interesting problem Is Noel the guy we want? I am not sure about that.

Attitude and maturity questions are growing with Noel. Knee surgery AND a sprained ankle AND just his 2nd game back and he feels the right to complain about not playing?

Still, I'd roll the dice on him and offer the same 'max' package I was suggesting earlier this season:

Zeller, Rozier, Young and our 2018 1st rd pick for Noel and Sergio Rodriguez.

they may bite on Rozier, but I think they would rather have Smart, and even though I love his defensive game, he still drives me nuts on offense, I may be willing to give him up. I really think Terry Rozier is going to be a super ball player in a year or so. He is so versatile, rebounds, defends, and SCORES with a good inside/outside game. I don't care about Zeller, or Young, even though Zeller has been a good trooper while here with the Celtics, not complaining much, but they rewarded him with that contract this fall.
I just think this is alot to give up for a player who is NOT a superstar. But, a move needs to be made, they need help in the middle. And an extra shooter would help the cause also.

This is going to be an interesting two months, before the February deadline. My thinking is that come February, Amir and Zeller may be gone if a good big pops up on the trade scene. Kelly is a DA favorite, but he may be on his way out too since he will be up at the end of the year. I just heard on one of the sports shows locally that Kelly is worth a $15 mill a year contract. We heard that about Sully too and look what happened to him.

Rosalie

RosalieTCeltics wrote:they may bite on Rozier, but I think they would rather have Smart, and even though I love his defensive game, he still drives me nuts on offense, I may be willing to give him up. I really think Terry Rozier is going to be a super ball player in a year or so. He is so versatile, rebounds, defends, and SCORES with a good inside/outside game.  I don't care about Zeller, or Young, even though Zeller has been a good trooper while here with the Celtics, not complaining much, but they rewarded him with that contract this fall.  
I just think this is alot to give up for a player who is NOT a superstar. But, a move needs to be made, they need help in the middle. And an extra shooter would help the cause also.

This is going to be an interesting two months, before the February deadline.  My thinking is that come February, Amir and  Zeller may be gone if a good big pops up on the trade scene. Kelly is a DA favorite, but he may be on his way out too since he will be up at the end of the year. I just heard on one of the sports shows locally that Kelly is worth a $15 mill a year contract. We heard that about Sully too and look what happened to him.

Rosalie

It sounds like you wouldn`t give up Rozier. I wouldn`t either. When I saw the title of this thread I thought somebody was  having a bah! humbug! Christmas.Hello Rosalie.I`ve enjoyed your posts.Before I joined, I noticed your evolution on Evan Turner.I like it whena person is open-minded enough to change their opinion.

Thanks, I am one of the torch bearer's for Sam. We came from the same era, Russell, Jones Boys, and of course, the Great John Havlicek. Russ was a joy to watch and Sam knew a lot of the players from that era. We had many of the same opinions, but he was able to teach me to be open minded when it came to certain players. Even at my age, I learned a lot from him.

Boy, would he have had a ball watch IT!! And by the middle of last season he would have jumped on the Turner bandwagon, as BobH
And I did.

It is great to have new, fresh ideas on this great Celtic Forum. The guys who run this have kept Sam's memory alive just by encouraging people like you to jump on our band wagon.

Happy Holidays

RosalieTCeltics wrote:
Thanks, I am one of the torch bearer's for Sam. We came from the same era, Russell, Jones Boys, and of course, the Great John Havlicek. Russ was a joy to watch and Sam knew a lot of the players from that era. We had many of the same opinions, but he was able to teach me to be open minded when it came to certain players. Even at my age, I learned a lot from him.

Boy, would he have had a ball watch IT!! And by the middle of last season he would have jumped on the Turner bandwagon, as BobH
And I did.  

It is great to have new, fresh ideas on this great Celtic Forum. The guys who run this have kept Sam's memory alive just by encouraging people like you to jump on our band wagon.

Happy Holidays

I wish I was new and fresh. I saw those guys play too, though not very often and only on television. Happy holidays to you , too.

I'd like to keep Rozier as well. Seems like a #1 and Rozier is a high price for Noel. Young and Zeller - I'd pay to have them carted away. Sergio Rodriguez, meh.

jrleftfoot wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:
Thanks, I am one of the torch bearer's for Sam. We came from the same era, Russell, Jones Boys, and of course, the Great John Havlicek. Russ was a joy to watch and Sam knew a lot of the players from that era. We had many of the same opinions, but he was able to teach me to be open minded when it came to certain players. Even at my age, I learned a lot from him.

Boy, would he have had a ball watch IT!! And by the middle of last season he would have jumped on the Turner bandwagon, as BobH
And I did.  

It is great to have new, fresh ideas on this great Celtic Forum. The guys who run this have kept Sam's memory alive just by encouraging people like you to jump on our band wagon.

Happy Holidays

I wish I was new and fresh. I saw those guys play too, though not very often and only on television. Happy holidays to you , too.

Hey jr

Since you go back to the Russell years it might be more appropriate to call you srleftfoot.

swish

Philly will want a guard.

I would offer in order of preference ( Young, Jackson, Rozier or Smart)  and consider sending a future 1st rounder 2019 ( Memphis or LAC) depending on who we trade.  Smart for Noel should be a  straight up deal

If you have to part with either Rozier or Smart you can replace either one of them in the 2017 draft.  

If the Celtics traded Smart they would lose that big defensive guard.  They would not miss his offense.  Brown may be able to help defend big guards.

The other issue however is about Noel.  Yes he is that long athletic PF/C that we really need but his history of injury must be weighed as well as the fee to resign him.  Noel is not a max contract player but it will cost to keep him so if they do trade for him the Celtics need to sign him to an extension now.

Next year Amir, KO and Jerebko could be released to free up more cap space.  

dboss

worcester wrote:I'd like to keep Rozier as well. Seems like a #1 and Rozier is a high price for Noel. Young and Zeller - I'd pay to have them carted away. Sergio Rodriguez, meh.

In my trade proposal Sergio was thrown in there b/c he is an 8m expiring contract that matches Zeller's. If Boston is giving Philly their 18 min per game backup PG than they can give us their starting PG who likely won't be with them past this season since we are a playoff team looking to stay strong at every position and they are tanking yet again. In a 10-14 min bench role we at least wouldn't have lost much in the backcourt with Rodriguez joining the team and Rozier leaving. At least for this season. Otherwise we'd have to play Jackson 6-8 mins. 

Rozier and a future #1 pick that won't be in the lottery is a VERY reasonable offer for Noel, a former top 10 pick whose skills this team lacks and are rare in general around the league. His RFA status is slightly concerning. I'd be willing to offer Philly BOTH protected 1st rd picks we have coming our way from LA and Memphis, conditional on if Noel signs an extension here. If Noel does not, Philly gets Rozier, Young and a 1 year team option on Zeller, but we get those picks back. Not sure if that type of trade is allowed to be made?

Either way, I still think it will be hard moving forward to have three guards all around 6'2" with similar skills in Bradley, Smart and Rozier and be a contender. It would be better if Smart were the backup PG who shares ball-handling responsibilities with someone like Hayward playing SG and SF (Crowder SF and lots of small-ball 4), which is the best case scenario. Other scenarios such as the C's signing a guy like Redick to play big mins as a backup SG or drafting an elite PG and pushing Smart to SG are not bad options either. All are better than Rozier/Smart and no rim-protector in my opinion.

I like the idea of Hayward being a piece of this team. Earlier in the year there were rumors, then they signed him to a contract to keep him satisfied. I still think if he had the chance to join his old coach on a team like the Boston Celtics he would not objject. The thing there is who would they want in return? Questions, questions, I would love to be a fly on the wall in Danny's office during the two or three weeks before the trade deadline!!!!

Of course, with my luck, someone would swat me and then I am gone!!
This is not the first time I have volunteered to work with Danny during the deadline. Anything for the good of Sam's Celtic Forum!!

dboss wrote:Philly will want a guard.

I would offer in order of preference ( Young, Jackson, Rozier or Smart)  and consider sending a future 1st rounder 2019 ( Memphis or LAC) depending on who we trade.  Smart for Noel should be a  straight up deal

If you have to part with either Rozier or Smart you can replace either one of them in the 2017 draft.  

If the Celtics traded Smart they would lose that big defensive guard.  They would not miss his offense.  Brown may be able to help defend big guards.

The other issue however is about Noel.  Yes he is that long athletic PF/C that we really need but his history of injury must be weighed as well as the fee to resign him.  Noel is not a max contract player but it will cost to keep him so if they do trade for him the Celtics need to sign him to an extension now.

Next year Amir, KO and Jerebko could be released to free up more cap space.  

dboss

Very good points. 

It is my understanding that Olynyk and Noel as RFA's would have 'cap holds' of roughly 6-7 and 9-10 million next summer. 

The Celtics will have 60 million devoted to Horford, Bradley, Crowder, Thomas, Smart, Brown and Jackson going into free agency in July of 2017. That is if they move Zeller, Rozier and Young for Noel, don't pick up the option on Mickey, haven't signed their top 7 pick yet and don't make any moves to bring Zizic and Yabusele over. 

The cap is expected to be 102-103 million. This would leave the Celtics with about 25 million in cap space. Not quite enough to give the full max to Hayward or Griffin that would require 27-29 million in space. If Griffin wanted to sign here it would almost certainly mean Olynyk's hold is released. If Hayward wanted to sign here they could do that as well, but would likely want to keep Kelly and his outside shooting as the 3rd or 4th big. Brown might need to be moved at this point instead, since Hayward would play a lot of SF. A tricky situation for sure. 

Of course, if the likely scenario of the C's striking out on those two players occurs, they still have more than enough money to add lesser FA's. Depending on what position they addressed in the lottery, they could add a guard/wing in Redick or Gay on deals in the 3/45 range or Ibaka as the 2nd/3rd big (pushing Kelly to 4th) for around the 4/70 players like Evan Turner got. 

It would also be just enough cap space to sneak 23 million man Harrison Barnes in via trade or another star but nor superstar type player rebuilding teams may wish to part with. Maybe Jimmy Butler will be made available again?

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I like the idea of Hayward being a piece of this team. Earlier in the year there were rumors, then they signed him to a contract to keep him satisfied. I still think if he had the chance to join his old coach on a team like the Boston Celtics he would not objject. The thing there is who would they want in return?  Questions, questions, I would love to be a fly on the wall in Danny's office during the two or three weeks before the trade deadline!!!!

Of course, with my luck, someone would swat me and then I am gone!!
This is not the first time I have volunteered to work with Danny during the deadline. Anything for the good of Sam's Celtic Forum!!

Hahaha, funny stuff Rosalie. 

I too would love Hayward. 

Utah must think they have a good chance to sign him, being able to offer some huge 5/150 Mike Conley type deal and also looking like a very good up and coming team. Yet if Hayward gives them any indication he would leave to play for his college coach and an equally up and coming team in the east (away from GState) for a roughly 4 year 115 million deal, then they might consider trading him at the deadline. 

The Celtics would probably have to give the Jazz Jaylen Brown and the Nets unprotected 2018 pick. Brown and the 2017 pick is too much. Smart and the 2017 pick is probably an equal offer to Brown/2018, but I wouldn't want to do that either. Brown has only played SF this season, and even though Crowder can play some small-ball 4 and Hayward some SG, I don't see Brown fitting onto this roster if Hayward is here.

Ram, I misunderstood. Rozier plus a #1 that is not a Nets pick plus Young and Zeller for Niel and Rodriguez does make a good deal of sense. I had thought you wanted to trade a Nets pick for Noel.

With as many board members who want nothing to do with Cousins, I am surprised that there has been so little response to any thoughts of acquiring Noel.

Obviously, they are not equal players (or, equal salaries) but doesn't Noel have too many 'issues' if Cousins does?

On another note, the more Noel complains down there if Philly, the less he is going to cost whomever trades for him.  

Although the Cs need the skills he possesses, Smart and a number one pick is too much for him.
Possibly Olynyk, Young or Green and the lowest number one Ainge has in his pocket would work.  All three of the Cs in the deal will be some type of free agent next summer while Noel is an RFA at the same time.

The 'ers get a number one and Olynyk (a decent NBA player) for a disgruntled player who is not going to fit into their rotation any time soon. He got a coach's decision DNP today so think he is happy tonight?

Noel rebounds and defends better than Olynyk, but does not spread the floor as well.  Getting Noel will put Johnson with the second unit where his very limited offense would be much more acceptable.  He may even score a few more points if with the reserve bunch while giving them a solid veteran to lead them.