Stealing Money

Jeff Green was thrust into the starting lineup, he went 0-9 from the field....not a typo

For the season hes shooting .348 FG and .300 from 3. I think Dannys doing a good job right now, but we all know acquiring Green was the worst trade in Celtics history.

is this a flash back?

kdp59

I think it could be about flashback number 45 or so.

swish

Hmmm... Perkins became washed up pretty quickly. 

Green was good risk/reward guy whose heart surgery messed up the plan. But he was never overpaid here, outplayed Perk by a lot in 2012-2015 and if the C's had gotten the production they expected from the O'Neal's in 2011 this would have been much less an issue. Blame OKC for pushing him on us HARD when they knew about his health condition and the likelihood he'd miss an entire year and all the NBA did was award us a 2nd rd pick as compensation. 

Green was a 13 point, 4 rebound, 50% FG/38% 3FG/80% FT guy in 2012-13 as the 6th man with Rondo, Pierce and KG still top dogs until Rondo's injury. THAT was the ideal role for him. People wanted him to be the next Pierce, but if Danny had been able to do just a few things better starting with the 2008 draft (DeAndre Jordan) to having KG get surgery right away in 2009 to convincing David West to come here in 2012, Jeff Green would only have needed to be a 6th man like Posey, which he was more than capable of being, instead of a savior/future all-star. Had they also had the foresight to give Krstic a deal like 3/18 million before the lockout in 2011 instead of letting him run to Russia the '12 and '13 teams that still had hopes to compete would have been better and the trade would have looked better,

Perk was rightfully a very beloved player and people tend to be skewed by that when it comes to this trade. 

But here are FOUR trades that are much worse than Perk for Green in Celtics history, in no particular order:

1. Chauncey Billups and Dee Brown for Kenny Anderson, Popeye Jones and Zan Tabak

2. Andrew DeClerq and a 1999 1st rd pick for Vitaly Potapenko. The pick Cleveland got ended up being Andre Miller at #8. The C's would have finished anywhere from 6-9 if they didn't make this trade. Miller, Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion (my choice) and Szczerbiak went 6-9.

3. Joe Johnson, Randy Brown, Milt Palacio and a 2002 1st rd pick for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk. Obviously Johnson became a multi-time all-star. The C's were better for a fun playoff run, in 2002 only, and the pick they gave up at #22 was right before Tayshaun Prince was selected 23rd and they could also have gotten Carlos Boozer who lasted all the way to 35. 

4. Kenny Anderson, Joe Forte and Potapenko for Vin Baker and Shammond Williams. Baker was an alcoholic they had to amnesty. 

I could have put down other trades that on the surface are worse than Perk for Green like Antoine for LaFrentz, LaFrentz/#5 pick in '06 for Ratliff/Telfair, Westphal for Scott, Silas for Wicks/Rowe, however, those moves indirectly led to Bird, Parish and McHale and KG/Ray so I won't change them less it changes the fate of what happened in the 3-5 years after. 

But yeah all 4 trades above are worse trades in Celtic history than moving Perk for Green.

There is also the trade that never happened: McHale and his degenerative broken foot to Dallas at the 1989 trade deadline for Detlef Schrempf and Sam Perkins. Had they made that trade they would have NOT made the Ainge for Pinckney/Kleine trade b/c Shrempf/Perkins fill those roles. 

Had Red made that deal and then drafted Tim Hardaway in the 1989 draft like EVERYBODY in the organization wanted him to, the history of the early 1990's failures would have been a lot different. 

The C's probably trade Brian Shaw for a future 1st rd pick when he demanded more money. With Hardaway as the PG of the future they didn't need to let Shaw play in Italy for a year holding the organization hostage. The last pick in the 1990 draft was Elden Campbell, so let's say that is who the C's grabbed after taking Dee Brown. 

1990-91 Celtics:

C - Parish, Perkins
PF - Bird, Campbell
SF - Schrempf, Gamble
SG - Lewis, Ainge
PG - Hardaway, Brown

McHale, Shaw, Pinckney and Kleine provided roughly 40 points, 20 boards and 10 assists that season. McHale did play well and was an all-star before really falling off in the 1991-92 season.  

Hardaway, Schrempf, Perkins, Ainge and Campbell provided roughly 65 points, 22 rebounds and 18 assists to their teams in 1991. Hardaway was an all-star and Schrempf the 6th man of the year. 

The C's would have had the firepower in 1991 to win a title. The west was weak, MJ hadn't done it yet and Detroit was falling. Bird was played a crazy 38 mins per game in '91, he was still an elite player capable of carrying the team in the playoffs if he's been kept rested and healthy for them. 

I'd put down that trade that did happen: Ainge and Kite for Pinckney and Kleine as being worse than Perkins for Green. So we're up to FIVE trades now;-)

cowens/oldschool wrote:Jeff Green was thrust into the starting lineup, he went 0-9 from the field....not a typo

For the season hes shooting .348 FG and .300 from 3. I think Dannys doing a good job right now, but we all know acquiring Green was the worst trade in Celtics history.

Cow

Ram makes some great points here.

How about the trade that sent Paul Westfal out along with 2 2nd rounders for Charlie Scott?

Danny Ainge and Brad Lohaus for Joe Kleine and Ed Pinckney,

The Perkins trade was bad but there were worse trades made than that one I think.



dboss

Ram wrote:Hmmm... Perkins became washed up pretty quickly. 

Green was good risk/reward guy whose heart surgery messed up the plan. But he was never overpaid here, outplayed Perk by a lot in 2012-2015 and if the C's had gotten the production they expected from the O'Neal's in 2011 this would have been much less an issue. Blame OKC for pushing him on us HARD when they knew about his health condition and the likelihood he'd miss an entire year and all the NBA did was award us a 2nd rd pick as compensation. 

Green was a 13 point, 4 rebound, 50% FG/38% 3FG/80% FT guy in 2012-13 as the 6th man with Rondo, Pierce and KG still top dogs until Rondo's injury. THAT was the ideal role for him. People wanted him to be the next Pierce, but if Danny had been able to do just a few things better starting with the 2008 draft (DeAndre Jordan) to having KG get surgery right away in 2009 to convincing David West to come here in 2012, Jeff Green would only have needed to be a 6th man like Posey, which he was more than capable of being, instead of a savior/future all-star. Had they also had the foresight to give Krstic a deal like 3/18 million before the lockout in 2011 instead of letting him run to Russia the '12 and '13 teams that still had hopes to compete would have been better and the trade would have looked better,

how can you say he outplayed Perk? they play different positions, with Perk manning the paint, Thunder got to the Finals. Perk did more and better dirty work than Jeff Green did what? Green was really good for a couple dunks in a game and then NOTHING for the rest!!! I don't ever remember seeing a game and thinking boy Jeff really came thru and thats the way its always been with him. Perk and KG tag teaming that paint was a huge part of our defensive identity, that team set standards for defense and was the best in that era. Jeff Green did nothing here and Posey was a much better defender and more clever and impactful player.

Thanks for the history loesson Ram. As George Santayana once wrote, "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it."