Is Brandon Ingram a bust?

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Is Brandon Ingram a bust? Empty Is Brandon Ingram a bust?

Post by steve3344 Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:50 am

After following Brandon Ingram's rookie season now for 50 games it seems appropriate to begin to ask this question:  For someone taken with the #2 pick in the draft, is it possible to already consider him a bust?  I wouldn't be asking this question if he was taken in the middle of the first round but anyone drafted second should produce some fairly immediate positive results.  Based on his season so far, Brandon Ingram has been a serious disappointment, and possibly headed toward an official "bust" label.

Let's examine:  He was supposed to be a terrific shooter with legitimate three point range and at 6'9" should also benefit from getting a bunch of dunks to pad his shooting percentage.  So what's he shooting so far this year after 50 games?  An abominable 35.8%.  And he's getting a healthy 28 minutes per game to give him adequate playing time to adjust to the pro game.  How's his three point shooting?  We can note that at 28.4% he's worse than Marcus Smart.  Yikes.

When his shots aren't falling - and that's been the case for virtually the whole season, does he contribute in other ways?  Nope.  His rebounding numbers are atrocious for a 6'9" player - one rebound every seven minutes.  202 in 1394 minutes played.  For a player of his height, jumping ability and quickness he should average a rebound every four or five minutes.  Does he pass well?  Nope.  He's averaging a puny 2 assists per game.  Does he block shots?  Nope.  He's got 21 blocks for the ENTIRE season for an average of 0.4 per game.

Suffice it to say, he's having a very rough start to his pro career and if it's too early to call him a bust, by this time next year, if he doesn't improve considerably from this level of averaging eight points, four rebounds and two assists, he will be well on his way to becoming a bust considering he was picked at #2.  His last two games after having nearly two thirds of the season under his belt sure don't give you confidence he is getting any better:  in 40 minutes combined against Portland and Utah he went 0 for 11, zero points. Ouch.

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Post by jrleftfoot Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:38 am

steve3344 wrote:After following Brandon Ingram's rookie season now for 50 games it seems appropriate to begin to ask this question:  For someone taken with the #2 pick in the draft, is it possible to already consider him a bust?  I wouldn't be asking this question if he was taken in the middle of the first round but anyone drafted second should produce some fairly immediate positive results.  Based on his season so far, Brandon Ingram has been a serious disappointment, and possibly headed toward an official "bust" label.

Let's examine:  He was supposed to be a terrific shooter with legitimate three point range and at 6'9" should also benefit from getting a bunch of dunks to pad his shooting percentage.  So what's he shooting so far this year after 50 games?  An abominable 35.8%.  And he's getting a healthy 28 minutes per game to give him adequate playing time to adjust to the pro game.  How's his three point shooting?  We can note that at 28.4% he's worse than Marcus Smart.  Yikes.

When his shots aren't falling - and that's been the case for virtually the whole season, does he contribute in other ways?  Nope.  His rebounding numbers are atrocious for a 6'9" player - one rebound every seven minutes.  202 in 1394 minutes played.  For a player of his height, jumping ability and quickness he should average a rebound every four or five minutes.  Does he pass well?  Nope.  He's averaging a puny 2 assists per game.  Does he block shots?  Nope.  He's got 21 blocks for the ENTIRE season for an average of 0.4 per game.

Suffice it to say, he's having a very rough start to his pro career and if it's too early to call him a bust, by this time next year, if he doesn't improve considerably from this level of averaging eight points, four rebounds and two assists, he will be well on his way to becoming a bust considering he was picked at #2.  His last two games after having nearly two thirds of the season under his belt sure don't give you confidence he is getting any better:  in 40 minutes combined against Portland and Utah he went 0 for 11, zero points. Ouch.
Ingram and Jaylen Brown were the most highly touted high school/ AAU players in their senior years, if memory serves. Brown may well turn out to be better. Its a little early to call iNGRAM  a bust,  though, IMO.
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Post by dboss Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:44 am

I think that for most of those one and done players you have a learning curve as well as a physical development curve.

I do think it may be too early to consider him a bust.

Let's see how he develops over the summer (by the way I noticed a hitch in his jumper at Duke)

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Post by tjmakz Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:16 am

Steve,

I think it's very early to call Brandon Ingram a bust after 50 games.
Why wouldn't you start a similar thread about Jaylen Brown who was the #3 pick?
Their numbers are pretty similar.
Ingram is not physically ready for the NBA yet.
He will need more time, even more time than Jaylen Brown.

Ingram was having a good January but has lost his confidence.
You can see that he's hesitant to shoot.
I don't think it helps that Walton has him playing some point guard.

Ingram will get it figured out.
He just needs time to figure it out, time to make mistakes and time to mature physically.
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Post by NYCelt Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:30 am

Not a bust at all.

Young guy learning his way in the NBA. Needs to get time to settle into one position, too.

Will be a top tier player without a doubt. Excellent pick by LA; wish he could've ended up in green.
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Post by mulcogiseng Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:13 pm

This years draft, as usual, had multiple tiers. At the top were Simmons and Ingram. So he is a disappointment but not a bust at this point and very likely won't be. He has talent. The next tier held five to seven players. Jaylen wasn't rated as a #3 pick but was in that second tier. So it came as a surprise for many when he was taken by the C's. No one is accusing this young man of losing his confidence. As tj sez he just needs more time to adjust, develop his skills, and mature his body. I've always heard it takes about five years to really evaluate a draft. Very few of the top ten players are really having a great rookie season.
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Post by bobheckler Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:35 pm

First of all, I think it is premature to describe Brandon Ingram as "a bust".  He's 1/2 season into an NBA career that could, barring injury, last a decade-and-a-half.

Having said that, I think it is safe to say he is struggling.  I don't think the comparison to Jaylen Brown is fair neither.  Jaylen Brown is on a team with an established veteran SF.  That has cut into his minutes which is also delaying his development.  Ingram is starting and is averaging 27.9mpg.  He should be further ahead than Brown since he is getting the minutes on the floor to get that development while Brown isn't.  The fact that he isn't is what is provoking the question about "bust?".

/36mpg....................Ingram.....vs.....Brown

Points.......................10.3.................13.0
FGA..........................10.0.................11.6
FG%.........................35.8%..............43.5%
3ptFGA......................3.0...................2.8
3ptFG%.....................28.4%...............29.8%
FTA...........................3.4...................3.0
FT%..........................67.2%...............70%
TRB...........................5.2...................5.6
ASTs..........................2.6...................1.6
TOs............................1.7..................1.8
STLs...........................0.6..................0.7
BLKs...........................0.5..................0.7


So, when you look at their stats they are almost identical.  Where Ingram falls behind a bit is that he came into the league as the best shooter in the lottery and Brown came in as an athletic defender who had limited outside offense and the numbers show that Ingram is not living up to his hype.  Yet.

My issue with Ingram, and I watched the Laker game against Utah last night, isn't that he isn't hitting his shots.  Brown has been missing layups.  This is what happens with rookies, the game is too fast for them so they rush their shots.  My concern with Ingram is his body.  He's 6'9" - 6'10", 190-195#.  RJ Hunter isn't in the league because he wasn't hitting his shots, and he isn't a highly touted lottery pick, but also because he was 6'6" but only 195#.  Ingram is the same weight but 3-4" taller.  Look at his legs.  MY legs are bigger than his and I am not built like a fireplug.  He's young, 19 1/2 years old, and he's playing a lot of minutes.  He has 1394 minutes already and we're only halfway done.  His bones have outgrown his soft tissue and he's pounding on them heavily now, playing against MEN who are MUCH heavier and stronger than him.

Rookies are rarely "busts".  They might be "busts-in-training" but they aren't there yet.  Ingram needs another year or two for the game to slow down for him and Luke Walton should cut back on his minutes.  In the long run I think that would produce the best results for the Laker hopeful.


bob


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Post by cowens/oldschool Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:57 am

Jaylen Brown looked really good tonight and he did blow some lay ups that he will be finishing regularly in the future. While I haven't seen that much of Ingram, its obvious that Brown is more ready for the physical nature at this level and Ingram is not. Brown also has the quickness to play the 2, which he did tonite, I hope he continues to start and can get minutes at both the 2 and 3, we could use him as a bigger guard. I don't see Ingram being mobile enough to defend 2's, Jaylen can and also has the stronger body to defend the 3's too.

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Post by wideclyde Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:10 pm

If you remember looking at this kid's skinny body last year when at Duke, I do not think that anyone could not have predicted that he would not be ready to handle the physicality of the NBA. Jalen Brown was physically huge compared to Ingram and Brown has already mentioned that he knows that he needs to get much stronger to play better in the NBA

He cannot be considered a bust quite yet, but he has not started off as well as such a high pick might be expected. Give him at least two more years to be judged a bust.

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