"Celtics could lose Garnett for Game 2"

Maybe you and Garnett call it a fight but I don't think the other players do.
Without Garnett's elbow there is no suspension.

And without Richardson standing over his injured teammate yelling obscenities - there is no elbow.

"He had no business over there," Rivers said. "We had a guy on the floor injured. There was no reason for him to be there. And then, going by all reports, not only just the crowding, but it was the taunting. You’ve got a guy injured on the floor, I don’t think you should be standing over him [telling him] to get up and I can’t even use the words he used.''

If that was Ray Allen and not KG, there wouldn't be an elbow....

KGs elbow is a suspension, no problem.

I do not understand why Richardson is walking over there. If you are gonna be allowed to walk over to players like that with no other intent than to cause problems then the league is going to have problem.

But just let Heat have the same thing and see what happens, when Wade hits the floor send a player over to talk to him and you will see Heat players getting angry.

Magloire also gets on the court if you want to be like that, he is not just in the bench area.

Anyway it is what it is and I think the Celtics will win either way.

TJ

this IS a Celtic BOARD first so what would you expect? and we got screwed over! BIG TIME. No way kobe or bron gets booted. League is a joke and so are most of the officials.
Nobody cries like Jackson (cept Bron perhaps)
Garnett did not start it, the Stern paid off refs did by making no call on the contact with PP in the first place.

beat

beat,

Kobe and leBron definitely get suspended just like Garnett.
It's not about who started it, it's about a veteran player losing his cool and getting suspended.
Pierce acts like he was assaulted every time he drives into the lane. He is not going to get every call because he is an actor.
Did pierce even come out of the game after laying on the floor 'injured'?

tj,

Many of your points are valid. Rules are rules. KG did swing his elbow, so he should be suspended.

There is no rule about taunting that directly results in a suspension, but perhaps now the powers-that-be will look into it. Hockey's "third man in" rule comes to mind, although it isn't a direct correlation. Both the taunting (standing over a injured player?) and the "3rd man in" act to escalate the already tense situation and there is a need to remove these acts from the game. The taunting over a downed player seems to me to be a relatively new phenominum, a totally classless act. If that kind of behavior continues, it will need to be dealt with for the good of the game.

Asking for one of the "lesser" Celtics to engage in a tit-for-tat payback, offered here by others, is not the answer. That causes further escalation of the situation. There has to be some kind of existing rule that should have been applied here. This act goes against the "best interests of the NBA" and there should have been a suspension for that alone in this case.

My biggest issue with your post is the "actor" reference. If you had any understanding of recent events involving Pierce, you would know that he is now having issues with stingers in his neck/shoulder area. While in the process of getting forced out of bounds, Pierce stretched out in an awkward, twisted way, in order to pass the ball out of trouble. I believe that is all it takes (and not the collision with the chair or the ref standing right there, for that matter) to aggrivate the already weak area that resulted from the first time he experienced a stinger.

Pierce now has a weakness in the area and we may see more of this for the rest of the season. Time, rest and therapy is needed for complete recovery. That is not going to happen at this point of the season.

So, when you say, "He is not going to get every call because he is an actor. Did pierce even come out of the game after laying on the floor 'injured'?", you show a lack of knowledge in what really is going on with Pierce at this time. It would be better if you stuck to the facts in this situation (however unpopular they may be on this site). You were doing all right, up until you added that last bit, which is the kind of argument that we as a group would like to leave back at the BDC.

Here are a couple of links to sites about stingers.

http://www.hughston.com/hha/a_12_2_1.htm

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/neck/a/neck3.htm

http://www.ourhealthnetwork.com/conditions/shoulder/BurnersStingers.asp

I hope that this would explain why Pierce could be incompacitated immediately after the injury and then continue to play after given a couple minutes to recouperate.

gyso

The only way I'm going to be convinced the Celtics are in this thing is if they come out w/o KG and completely dessimate the Heat. If they come out and lay a turd, I'm really going to be pissed.

This is actually what we have been preparing for ALL season with all the missing pieces due to injuries. If we can't win this next game decisively w/o KG, then the absolute horror of the regular season lessons were all for naught.

I, too, like what KG did, I just question the timing of it since it resulted in him being dumped for Game 2. The Celtics will always get the short end of the stick in these situations. The reason is we have a team, with all above average contributors. You can toss 4 of our starting five and it hurts us more than Miami losing anyone but Wade. This ruling was just another case in point. It doesn't matter. What does matter is Game 2. If Doc and the boys aren't up by 40 at the half, I'd be surprised.

I did like what I saw overall, though. Where the &^@#$% was that suffocating defense all season? Man, even I was uncomfortable and had to move around in my house just to breathe and get away from that defense!!

It appears this team can can turn it on and off, but I won't put my seal of approval on them until they win Game 2 by putting two games back to back, something they really didn't do down the stretch. The Heat know they got away with one. So don't expect them to come out all jacked because KG is gone for a game. I'd advise against retaliating against Richardson. It will only result in more fines and suspensions against us and not Miami. I would imagine either Sheed or Baby get the call, either of which I like. Probably Sheed. If so, it's time to show us your hidden bag o' tricks we've been promised.

Game award goes to Baby and TA.

gyso,

I have no problems with the NBA implementing a rule giving a player two technicals/ejection for taunting. It would not lead to a suspension but would be thrown out of that game.
If Garnett jsut pushed Richardson away, there would be no suspension.

Pierce seems to have a reputation in the league and with the referees of driving to the basket acting like he is injured when he gets bumped. It's amazing that the refs sometimes fall for Pierce's head-jerking when he is driving to the basket.
Yes, there should have been a foul called on the play. But this all would be a non-issue if Garnett kept himself in check.

tj,

How is Pierce's actions or reactions while driving to the lane any different than ANY OTHER PLAYER'S reactions or reactions when looking for a foul after contact is made?

It sounds like you think Pierce is all alone in this matter.

Most members of this board are appalled at the lack of calls Pierce gets compared to some of the other top players in the league.

Wade bulls himself into Glen Davis while driving to the bucket. I didn't need a replay to see that Glen was there in plenty of time and was not moving. Yet Wade gets the call.

But that is another matter. The point is that you seen to have a problem with Pierce being incompacitated with pain in one minute and then continuing to play after some time without coming out of the game.

I hope you have a better understanding of that issue now.

gyso

Many, if not all of us can agree that KG's actions merited a suspension but the (continued) incompetence of nba officials cannot be underestimated. First off, a foul should have been called on the play, secondly, all 3 refs should have been over there doing "crowd control", especially with the incident being a Celtic player down in front of the Heat bench during a hotly contested PLAYOFF game. Where were they? action on the floor had stopped its not like they had to make sure that Perk was not in the lane for over 3 seconds or Wade was playing an illegal defense! To buttress my point about the refs I'd like to go back to the infamous Artest incident. If you guys remember after Artest and Wallace were separated Artest Laid across the scorers table, which was a stupid and immature thing to do. A Pacer coach or player (Capt. R. Miller?) at the least or definitely the refs should have immediately gotten him up from there and guided him to his bench or the locker room, remember guys Artest was hit with the drink cup while reclined on the scorers table basking in the attention that HIS on court actions resulted in. The refs allowing him to do that, in my opinion, was the match that started the fire, the Artest/Wallace fire had been put out. My point in bringing up all of that is simply the refs blew it by not acting as a 3 man team to clear the area around an injured player. Paul's so called diva act and reputation notwithstanding, the fact is that a player was down, INJURED!!! And the refs should have been there if for no other reason than too see about that.

BTW, how about Portland? The only team to have it worse than the Celtics injury-wise and not recover by the playoffs and still beat Phoenix in Phoenix. But then again, it's still Phoenix.

gyso,

I don't have a problem with PP being in pain. He and Perkins have had shoulder issues the last few years. I did say there should have been a foul called on the play. This thread has been about losing Garnett for game 2 and the decision he made. Youkilis made a similiar poor decision last year when he charged the mound and had to sit 4 or 5 game, but that was in the regular season.

Most members of this board are Celtics fans, so of course, they are going to want more calls for their team's players. If you talk to non-Celtics fans, most believe PP gets many calls and you don't deserve to get to the FT line just because you throw your head back.

Gyso,
I agree with you, though it's incapacitated (sorry - too many teachers in my life).
TJ,
This event was thoroughly recorded and ESPN showed it from at least 2 angles several times. So, if you watched the game and paid attention you saw the following. PP with ball is bumped on the drive. Usually it's a foul but it's the last minute of the close game and in many cases refs let it go. Then PP makes a shot and, well after he's released the ball he's shoved into the ref and Heat bench: this foul should be assessed immediately. Then, PP on the floor right by the Heat bench, KG stands right above him. QR walks right into the space between KG and chairs, KG extends his elbow to prevent QR walking any farther, QR stops and starts talking, KG talks back. After that QR tries to walk anyway, shoving and pushing starts. Now, point is that if QR moved any farther he would be walking over PP, literally. And he was aware of that. Therefore it's clear his only intent was to taunt KG and/or PP and create some fight that would 'dislodge' the opponents resolve. Also consider 2 things, (a)the state of the game at that point: 40 sec left, 6 points deficit, for the previous 11:20 they managed to score only 6 or 7 points and, (b)well known 'beef' between him and PP. Moral of this story, no matter what glasses you wear: green, red, blue or even yellow with purple frame, is that both parties should be punished equally.

AK

TJ only sees things thru purple and gold.

fact is the refs blew it. What happened after is on them!

beat wrote:TJ only sees things thru purple and gold.

fact is the refs blew it. What happened after is on them!

Just because the refs blew a foul call does not give players the right to throw punches/elbows.
They need to take personal liability for their actions.
Too bad many of their fans give them a pass for conduct that clearly merits a suspension.

Kobe has been suspended many times for elbows that he threw while he was shooting...
The KG suspension was a no-brainer for the league.

tjmakz wrote:

beat wrote:TJ only sees things thru purple and gold.

fact is the refs blew it. What happened after is on them!

Just because the refs blew a foul call does not give players the right to throw punches/elbows.
They need to take personal liability for their actions.
Too bad many of their fans give them a pass for conduct that clearly merits a suspension.

Kobe has been suspended many times for elbows that he threw while he was shooting...
The KG suspension was a no-brainer for the league.

tj,

Kobe has been "suspended many times for elbows he threw"? Not compared to the number he throws.

He's been suspended a few times, true. He was NOT suspended in the playoffs last year when he threw an elbow that connected with Artest (who was playing for the Rockets at the time). Considering the undermanned Rockets took the Lakers to 7, losing Fisher (for his cheap shot) AND Kobe might have cost LA that game and the series. But Kobe was NOT suspended for that elbow even though it was obvious and unprovoked.


bob

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bob,

The league views elbows to the chest differently then it does to the head.
Kobe's elbow to Artest was also during a play.
You are comparing apples to oranges.
Are you keeping track on how many elbows Kobe throws?

tjmakz wrote:bob,

The league views elbows to the chest differently then it does to the head.
Kobe's elbow to Artest was also during a play.
You are comparing apples to oranges.
Are you keeping track on how many elbows Kobe throws?

tj,

No, I'm not tracking them. I did a little research, after you brought the topic up, and the elbow to Artest by Kobe was obvious.

KG is 6'12" tall (he doesn't like to be called a "7-footer"). Quentin Richardson is 6'6". An elbow thrown shoulder high by KG hits Richardson in the face. An elbow thrown shoulder high (or maybe just a little lower than shoulder high) by Kobe at Artest hits Artest in the upper chest (6'6" vs 6'7"). If Kobe's knees are bent to brace himself against Artest's pressure, then it would definitely be in the chest, even at shoulder-high.

If Bynum were to get a rebound and brings his elbows up shoulder high and swings them intentionally to clear space around him and connects with Scola (who's behind him and harassing him for the ball) in the upper chest, would you say that's ok, since it was "during a play"? Shouldn't intent have more to do with it than whether the whistle had blown? I would be willing to bet that if the above scenario happened, Bynum would be "T"d up and possible ejected with a suspension being considered. But then, Bynum isn't Kobe or LeBron any more than KG is, and that's the point a lot of people are making here...

bob

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bob,

Good points as usual. You are right with your height analysis.
Clearing space during a play without intent to injure is usually called a flagrant 1, unless you hit someone in the head. If you happen to hit someone in the head, then it can be a flagrant 2 even if you are just clearing space.
A flagrant 2 is called when an elbowing is intentional or reckless.
KG was not looking to bust open anyone's lip, but it was reckless and it was to the head.
Dwight Howard received the same penalty 1 year ago in the playoffs
For Celtics fans to speculate that 2 people in the league (Kobe and LeBron) would not have been suspended is wrong.

It's too bad this has taken away from Boston's impressive win in game 1. Their defense in the last 1/3 of the game was tremendous.

Elbow to the head and not during play?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsPATt5_DA

Did suspension or T happen?

TJ

So I can't speculate? Why?

Jeesh

My opinion OK And I do think there are far different standards for Kobe and Bron in the league than any other players.

beat

When opinions are not based on any facts they make people look closed-minded.
It's too bad you put so much emphasis on bad calls, cheating refs, a corrupt commissioner and league, and an anti-Celtics bias while trying to discredit the two best players in the league.

Well it's done now. We will see if Bitchardson let his mouth write a check his ass cant cash or not. I accept the suspension and applaud KG's instincts if not his actions. If ever I fall under my enemies boots I hope someone is willing to stand tall for me like that.

NBA officiating is the worst most slinky crooked venal joke in sports.