The Cavs Have A Specific Set Of Criteria For A Kyrie Irving Trade

SO we know that Phoenix with a Bledsoe, Bender or Chriss and a draft picks meets what Cleveland reportedly wants back for Irving.

can Danny top that offer, IF he wants Irving here?

Thomas would have to go in the deal, obviously, Crowder would almost have to be included to have any chance of making the salary numbers work also.
My pick for a third player would be Yabusele then. Along with a draft pick or two (none of the holy grail of course).


what would our roster look like after:

Horford-C
Baynes-C
Zizic-C
Morris-PF
Theis-PF
Hayward-SF
Jaylen-SF/SG
Tatum-SF
Ojeleye-SF
Smart-SG
Nader-SG
IRVING-PG
Rozier-PG
Larkin-PG

with 14 players on the roster, Danny could work to get in a vet PF on MINIMUM deal.

Players Like our old friend Bass, Lavoy Allen, Humphries are all looking for a job OR he could re-sign G. Green for another 3 deep bench wing if he chooses.

Just some thoughts.

parting with two starters, a prospect and draft picks is a tidy sum. Danny would have to believe that Irving is a big upgrade to do that.

dboss

for sure dboss.

just a morning exercise for me to see what type of team could be possible if Danny wanted to do it.

should he is very debatable for sure

kdp59 wrote:for sure dboss.



just a morning exercise for me to see what type of team could be possible if Danny wanted to do it.

should he is very debatable for sure

kdp59

Playing the Devil's advocate

Irving > IT
Crowder = Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Semi + Nadar (take your pick or any combination.)
Yabusele = Theis
First round picks = Unknown, Keep nets pick and trade other picks

New starting 5

Irving
Brown
Hayward
Morris
Horford

Top 5 reserves

Smart
Baynes
Rozier
Tatum
Theis

End Of Bench

Zizic
Semi

2018 Draft go get the long sort after Big using the last Golden Egg

dboss

Again, PATIENCE will result in Irving being available for much less than Thomas, Crowder, Yabusele and a future first round pick of any kind. Cleveland is not likely to be able to get as much as they currently desire for this guy since they are in a "have to trade him" situation, and all 29 other teams fully understand this.

Good comments by many here, but thought I'd add my 2 cents: I would trade Thomas and Crowder for Irving, but would not include the Nets or Lakers draft pick. My theory is that IT had a career year and Crowder is likely to be dissatisfied with his upcoming role. A starting 5 of Irving, Brown, Horford, Hayward, and say, Morris, backed by Smart, Rozier, Tatum, Semi, Gabby, Aron, etc. would match Cleveland - even with IT.

wideclyde wrote:Again, PATIENCE will result in Irving being available for much less than Thomas, Crowder, Yabusele and a future first round pick of any kind.   Cleveland is not likely to be able to get as much as they currently desire for this guy since they are in a "have to trade him" situation, and all 29 other teams fully understand this.

problem for us (being over the cap) is we have to come close to matching his salary. now Danny could always include a third team that has a larger salary they want to dump to make it work.

They don't have to trade him - he's under contract for 2 more years. He can play up to his usual standards or he should ride the bench for 2 years - his choice to make - and if he choices to lay down on the job there is always a suspension without pay hanging over his head. The potential of 2 years without pay should be enough to motivate him and his lawyer to come to their senses. I would find it refreshing it the Cavs were to send a message that puts and end to this type of demand.

swish

swish wrote:
  They don't have to trade him - he's under contract for 2 more years. He can play up to his usual standards or he should ride the bench for 2 years - his choice to make -  and if he choices to lay down on the job there is always a suspension without pay hanging over his head. The potential of 2 years without pay should be enough to motivate him and his lawyer to come to their senses. I would find it refreshing it the Cavs were to send a message that puts and end to this type of demand.

  swish

Swish. I hear what you are saying but I must disagree with it to a certain degree. Irving is not the first player to ask to be traded and he will not be the last. I think players have the right to request a change of scenery and teams are going to make every attempt to resolve that issue up to and including finding a trading partner.

Why does a message need to be sent. I do not think punishment would be prudent and I do not think that keeping a malcontent on your team is a good idea.

dboss

dboss wrote:

swish wrote:
  They don't have to trade him - he's under contract for 2 more years. He can play up to his usual standards or he should ride the bench for 2 years - his choice to make -  and if he choices to lay down on the job there is always a suspension without pay hanging over his head. The potential of 2 years without pay should be enough to motivate him and his lawyer to come to their senses. I would find it refreshing it the Cavs were to send a message that puts and end to this type of demand.

  swish

Swish. I hear what you are saying but I must disagree with it to a certain degree.  Irving is not the first player to ask to be traded and he will not be the last.  I think players have the right to request a change of scenery and teams are going to make every attempt to resolve that issue up to and including finding a trading partner.

Why does a message need to be sent.  I do not think punishment would be prudent and I do not think that keeping a malcontent on your team is a good idea.

dboss

dboss


 I have no problem with players requesting a trade - One that I've heard frequently is play me or trade me - but even then management has the option to accept or to decline the request- demand.  In this particular situation, I'll stick by my opinion that management would be justified to carryout the measures that I mentioned, against a so called malcontent.
A real strong "play it my way or sit" edict.  Just another opinion on a forum that thrives on opinions. Of course if Cavs management could engineer a deal of equal value then everyone walks away happy.

swish

Irving is under contract, which he signed willingly. So I understand why the team could choose a hard line approach. However as a 20 something year employer, I can say that having unhappy employees is a lose/lose.

which is why the Cavs should just find the best deal they can and move ahead. I still think Phoenix has the best chance to make a deal that works for both teams.

kdp,

Your point of having unhappy employees is spot on, and this is exactly why the Cavs HAVE to trade Irving.

If an employee on one side of the factory does not like another one who works on the other side of the building, it is not such a big issue. But, since a basketball team needs five guys working very closely together having your second best player unhappy enough to request a trade either the prime player or the secondary player has to be moved.

No way that Cleveland trades James, so that, to me, says that Irving will have to go. Cleveland has a wish list for a trade, but they already know that they very likely have to except less because they have no choice but to trade him before training camp begins.

Siting on the bench, perhaps even suspended without pay,could work wonders when it comes to an attitude problem.

swish

swish,

I doubt that the Cavs can suspend Iriving because he asked to be traded.

Just "sitting him on the bench" is not going to solve the "unhappy camper" issues for
Irving or his teammates.

Your hardcore approach may work with an employee who absolutely has no options and
completely needs a job, but in this case, Irving holds all of the cards and/or can influence the
Cavs who may think that they still hold a small card in this situation.

Irving has played the last two years for $18M per year, so although he wants to play this year,
he still can put food on the table and pay the rent all the way until his contract with Cleveland runs out (if he has to wait that long) if necessary. Your disciplinary thoughts may work on a malcontent who HAS to work every day to feed his kids, but Irving is certainly not this guy.

Cleveland loses big time if they decide to have him on the team and/or not play him as they already know that they will be lucky to get a reasonably good player and remain a competitive team this year when they finally trade him.

I cannot see any other team in the league who is going to help Cleveland out of the bind that Irving has put them in. Cleveland is not getting a combination of guys like Thomas, Crowder, Yabusele/? and something like the Nets 18 pick unless another team gets totally stupid. In fact, most teams do not even have such a group of players/picks to make such a trade. Boston and who else? GM Ainge will not make a trade that he is not going to "win" with a player this good involved because he works for the Cs and not the Cavs.

Disagree with you wideclyde. I don't see him running the risk of forfeiting $38,967,813.00 over the next 2 years ( that's about $237,608 per game) but there's always the chance that the Cavs will capitulate - so it's time for me to put this conversation on hold and wait to see how the real players handle this Irving request-demand over the ensuing months.

swish

rumors say Phoenix has already offered Bledsoe, Bender and future first round pick.

Bledsoe was "training" with LeBron a week ago or so....... Unless Bledsoe and The King didn't get along, the pieces probably are in place.
The Cav's are just dangling Irving to see if they can get a better offer, which they won't IMO.

Between Bledsoe and Rose they have replaced Irving and Deron Williams nicely, again IMO.

Bender is that young player under a rookie deal ( it wouldn't surprise me if Cleveland is holding out for Chriss instead though).

Phoenix also has an extra first next year I believe.

Latest rumors are that for the Cavs to trade Kyrie to Boston, Phoenix or NYK the deals would have to include Jayson Tatum, Josh Jackson or Porzingis.

Also, the rumor is that for NYK to even consider that the Cavs would have to take Joachim Noah and his contract.

The ESPN Trade Machine says that Noah + Porzingis for Irving trade will pass muster $-wise, but that the Knicks would also lose 8 more games than last year while Cleveland would win 7 more.

That says something right there, doesn't it?


bob


.

Yet another reason why Danny shouldn't rush to trade for Kyrie.  If this is true then the clock is ticking on the Cavs and time is on the time of the 29 other GM's.  And the Celtics are, at most, one year away from being on top again because we saw what the Cavs were when Kyrie was the best player on the team when LeBron was in Miami.  There's no need or reason to be impatient, Danny, not when you've been so patient so far.  You're almost home-free, wait for it...


Chris Sheridan ✔ @sheridanhoops
NBA source said today: "This will be LeBron's final season in Cleveland. He is 100 percent leaving. Relationship with owners beyond repair."
3:42 PM - Aug 16, 2017
978 978 Replies   13,941 13,941 Retweets   15,182 15,182 likes



bob


.

bobheckler wrote:Yet another reason why Danny shouldn't rush to trade for Kyrie.  If this is true then the clock is ticking on the Cavs and time is on the time of the 29 other GM's.  And the Celtics are, at most, one year away from being on top again because we saw what the Cavs were when Kyrie was the best player on the team when LeBron was in Miami.  There's no need or reason to be impatient, Danny, not when you've been so patient so far.  You're almost home-free, wait for it...


Chris Sheridan ✔ @sheridanhoops
NBA source said today: "This will be LeBron's final season in Cleveland. He is 100 percent leaving. Relationship with owners beyond repair."
3:42 PM - Aug 16, 2017
978 978 Replies   13,941 13,941 Retweets   15,182 15,182 likes



bob


.

There are A LOT of posts and threads about trading for Irving.
Danny definitely gave up much more than Celtics fans expected or wanted, but they now have a very good player in Irving.
I am surprised Danny wasn't patient and let Cleveland implode over the next 12 months with Irving and LeBron probably leaving.

TJ,
Re: Cleveland imploding in the next 12 months.
I think one of the reasons is Danny doesn't care about Cavs - he needs to beat GSW. And he perceives KI as a solid step in that direction.

AK

I wasn't too far off on the players there..I had Crowder, IT and Yabusele going. but I said no on the Nets draft pick.

My MAX trade for Irving (which I would have held out for) would have been the 3 players I listed and TWO first round picks (none of which would have been the Nets or Laker/Kings picks). I would have been willing to stand pat with that and let the Cav's move him elsewhere, if they didn't want that deal.

Danny obviously thinks a bit higher than i do about irving I suppose. i hope he is 100% right.